The Gipper Posted August 24, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 24, 2015 Its crystal clear that the Steelers are the best team in the div...the browns second. Yea, I don't think it is quite so clear. I have the Steelers having the top dog in only like 3-4 spots: QB with BR RB with Bell Timmons at LB Brown as one of top 2 WRs. I would still put AJ Green as the top WR in the division.....but since we get to put 2 WRs int he starting lineup, Brown gets a spot. But Gilbert: no way. (I think he is at best 3rd) Heath Miller: 5 years ago, sure. Not now Shazier is completely unproven. Maybe in a year or two he can be elevated....but not yet. Tuitt....no. Competent....but not any better than the other NTs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted August 24, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 24, 2015 Shazier when the dust settles will be better. Yea, maybe.....but so far in his career he has played no better than Christian Kirksey. Injuries have hurt him yes. Like I said: maybe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted August 24, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 24, 2015 I was only comparing shazier to mosely. Follow along. But you are basing your opinion on conjecture...potential. And he pointed out that if we are just going on potential, then Danny Shelton and X. Cooper may be dominant defensive linemen as soon as Shazier will be a dominant LB. And, as noted, Christian Kirksey may in fact be the equal or better than Shazier....when everything shakes out. While the Ourlads has one playing on one side and the other playing on the other side, they are still both ILBs. Kirksey has got the better of it so far: 47 tackles, 34 assists, 2 sacks, 1 forced fumble 3 passes defensed Shazier: 27 tackles, 13 assists, 0 sacks 0 forced fumbles 1 pass defensed. Sure, neither was a full time player and Kirksey played about 3 more games.....but he still projected out as more productive. I am not denying Shaziers talent (as an OSU fan why would I?). Its just that it really remains to be seen. As for Mosley....well, he was a full time starter his rookie year unlike the other two but here are his far superior numbers: 99 tackles 52 assists, 3 sacks, 2 interceptions, 1 forced fumble, 1 fumble return He has the better of it over both of them at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted August 24, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 24, 2015 Dont know if anyone else watched the Eagles slay the Ravens last night......but WOW.....Ravens looked terrible..... really really bad...... really bad..... just bad.... baaad... bad. . Good......not that it means anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riffer X Posted August 24, 2015 Report Share Posted August 24, 2015 Yea, maybe.....but so far in his career he has played no better than Christian Kirksey. Injuries have hurt him yes. Like I said: maybe. Those Ohio Stiller fans really love Buckeyes. Shazier is small and injury prone. Good player, but we will see if he can last. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted August 24, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 24, 2015 It's like two extremes going back and forth. Either the side that has the Steelers unrealistically good and browns unrealistically bad... Or the classic brown and orange tinted glasses view. Both are usually pretty biased. The Browns have more talent if you go player 1-26 likely than maybe any of the other teams in the division......but the do suck hind tit at all the offensive skill players......and the whole continuity thing is still a factor with the Browns that as I have said before makes them less than the sum of their parts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted August 24, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 24, 2015 Those Ohio Stiller fans really love Buckeyes. Shazier is small and injury prone. Good player, but we will see if he can last. I recall that he was often hurt at OSU. Maybe his problem is that he has no eyebrows to serve as a protectorant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted August 24, 2015 Report Share Posted August 24, 2015 Maybe his problem is that he has no eyebrows to serve as a protectorant. Ahahaha.....hilarious, cause it's true.... Gotta say, as much as I like OSU and the Linebackers we have produced, I never saw the infatuation with Shazier compared to some of those others we had......was shocked that he went so early in the draft, mostly because of the size & injury issues listed above.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted August 24, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 24, 2015 Ahahaha.....hilarious, cause it's true.... Gotta say, as much as I like OSU and the Linebackers we have produced, I never saw the infatuation with Shazier compared to some of those others we had......was shocked that he went so early in the draft, mostly because of the size & injury issues listed above.... I don't know that his size is such an issue. I am liking Hayes Pullard and he seems to be on he smallish side. And some of the best MLBs in history were really not all that big. Look at Jack Lambert. His playing weight was 220 pounds!. Shazier is listed at 237. Dick Butkus played at 245....as did Ray Lewis. So his weight isn't that far off, not really. In fact, Shazier is the exact same weight as Lawrence Taylor at 237. Shazier seems like he may play some OLB with his speed. With a talent like that that has had injury issues, you just hope they don't crop up through his pro career. So far not so good with Shazier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted August 24, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 24, 2015 Here I am listing each of the projected starters at each position from all 4 teams in the AFC North. I am listing them in alphabetical order of Baltimore, Cincinnati, Cleveland, Pittsburgh. State whom you think is the best at each slot...and perhaps why: Nobody else wanted to try this? How about this: Baltimore...........Cincinnati..........Cleveland..........Pittsburgh Offense: LWR: Kamar Aiken...AJGreen...Andrew Hawkins...Antonio Brown RWR: Steve Smith...Muhammed Sanu...Brian Hartline...Markus Wheaton Take the above all as one group.....and put Green and Brown on top LOT: Eugene Moore...Andrew Whitworth...Joe Thomas...Kelvin Beachum LG: Kelechi Osemele...Clint Boling...Joel Bitonio...Ramon Foster OC: Jeremy Zuttah...TJ Johnson...Alex Mack...Maurkice Pouncey RG: Marshall Yanda...Dan France...John Greco...David DeCastro RT: Ricky Wagner...Eric Winston...Mitchell Schwartz...Marcus Gilbert TE: Crockett Gilmore...Tyler Eifert...Gary Barnidge...Heath Miller QB: Joe Flacco...Andy Dalton...Josh McCown...Ben Roethlisberger FB: Kyle Juszcyk...Mark Weisman...Malcom Johnson...Will Johnson RB: Justin Forsett...Jeremy Hill...Isaiah Crowell...Leveon Bell Defense: DE: Tim Jernigan...Geno Atkins...Randy Starks...Cam Heyward NT: Brandon Williams...Domata Peko...Phil Taylor...Steve McClendon As the year goes on that person will be Danny Shelton imo DE: Chris Canty...Michael Johnson...Des. Bryant...Stephon Tuitt OLB: Terrell Suggs...Carlos Dunlap...Scott Solomon...Arthur Moats ILB: CJ Mosley...Emanual Lemur...Karlos Dansby...Ryan Shazier ILB: Daryl Smith...Rey Maualuga...Christian Kirksey...Lawrence Timmons OLB: Courtney Upshaw...Vontaze Burfict...Paul Kruger...Jarvis Jones LCB: Ladarius Webb...Dre Kirkpatrick...Joe Haden...William Gay SS: Will Hill...George Iloka...Donte Whitner...Shamarko Thomas FS: Kendrick Lewis...Reggie Nelson...Tashaun Gipson...Mike Mitchell RCB: Jimmy Smith...Leon Hall...Tramon Williams...Allen Cortez Special Teams: Punter: Sam Koch...Kevin Huber...Andy Lee...Brad Wing Kicker: Justin Tucker...Mike Nugent...Travis Coons...Garret Hartley Punt Returner: Michael Campanaro...Adam Jones...Travis Benjamin...Antonio Brown Kick Returner: Asa Jackson...Brandon Tate...Marlon Moore...Markus Wheaton None of the above. The new kickoff rules have emasculated this position. I realize there may be some changes coming in these depth charts....Feel free to point out where you think people will be shuffled around or replaced. Choose who is tops....or to place in order. Looking at my own assessment I have each of the AFCN teams having the "best" player at this many positions: Cleveland 7 Cincinnati 7 Baltimore 6 Pittsburgh 5 I did not do a count on who has the most "worst players" at each position.....but any of you are welcome to try. Of course however, we would have a consensus that the Browns likely have the worst of it at the QB position...which matters a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted August 24, 2015 Report Share Posted August 24, 2015 I don't know that his size is such an issue. I am liking Hayes Pullard and he seems to be on he smallish side. And some of the best MLBs in history were really not all that big. Was just talking draft status, where(now) size IS an issue and effects where people are picked....thats why guys with lower production but good size & speed get elevated to the top, while smaller/slower guys with good production like Pullard & Borland drop......hence, Pullard was picked in the 7th, not the first.... Not saying Shazier wont play well....just surprised he went so high......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted August 24, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 24, 2015 Was just talking draft status, where(now) size IS an issue and effects where people are picked....thats why guys with lower production but good size & speed get elevated to the top, while smaller/slower guys with good production like Pullard & Borland drop......hence, Pullard was picked in the 7th, not the first.... Not saying Shazier wont play well....just surprised he went so high......... Well, interesting question. While I certainly did not do any "film study" like the NFL scouts do on these players, I can only go by their combine stats, and here is what you have, Shazier vs. Pullard: Pullard: 6/0 240, 4.66 40, 30.5 vertical, 9'2" Broad jump 4.4 shuttle Shazier: 6'1 237, 4.38 40, 10'10 broad jump 4.21 shuttle Shazier "wins" the statistics......perhaps there is your difference between a 1st and 7th rounder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vagitron Posted August 24, 2015 Report Share Posted August 24, 2015 Yea, I don't think it is quite so clear. I have the Steelers having the top dog in only like 3-4 spots: QB with BR RB with Bell Timmons at LB Brown as one of top 2 WRs. I would still put AJ Green as the top WR in the division.....but since we get to put 2 WRs int he starting lineup, Brown gets a spot. But Gilbert: no way. (I think he is at best 3rd) Heath Miller: 5 years ago, sure. Not now Shazier is completely unproven. Maybe in a year or two he can be elevated....but not yet. Tuitt....no. Competent....but not any better than the other NTs. Tuitt isn't a nose tackle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vagitron Posted August 24, 2015 Report Share Posted August 24, 2015 Those Ohio Stiller fans really love Buckeyes. Shazier is small and injury prone. Good player, but we will see if he can last. Shazier was not injury prone in college. Mosley was injury prone. One injury doesnt label a player as injury prone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted August 24, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 24, 2015 Tuitt isn't a nose tackle. No, right. I was getting my Stephon's mixed up. McClendon is the NT. Nevertheless Tuitt is no better than the other DEs in the AFCN. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted August 24, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 24, 2015 Shazier was not injury prone in college. Mosley was injury prone. One injury doesnt label a player as injury prone. The fuck? Did you ever watch Ohio State? I certainly did....and Shazier certainly did have issues in college with injuries. He was not out for whole stretches, but he missed a few games here and there, and missed parts of games. So, while perhaps he is not made of glass.....he may be found in the glazed pottery section. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vagitron Posted August 24, 2015 Report Share Posted August 24, 2015 No, right. I was getting my Stephon's mixed up. McClendon is the NT. Nevertheless Tuitt is no better than the other DEs in the AFCN. Right now as he was just a rookie last season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vagitron Posted August 24, 2015 Report Share Posted August 24, 2015 The fuck? Did you ever watch Ohio State? I certainly did....and Shazier certainly did have issues in college with injuries. He was not out for whole stretches, but he missed a few games here and there, and missed parts of games. So, while perhaps he is not made of glass.....he may be found in the glazed pottery section. Freshman year - 13Sopho year - 12 Junior year - 14 Now correct me if I'm wrong but the college football season is 12 games no? He played every regular season game and a few post season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted August 24, 2015 Report Share Posted August 24, 2015 Tuitt is no better than the other DEs in the AFCN. Correct o mundo....Tuitt was actually ranked dead last for all 3-4 rookie DE's last season...earning negative scores 13 out of 17 weeks..... Looks like he could evolve to be a specialized pass rusher, but is plain ole terrible against the run.... Finished with a -10.2 score for the season(16th out of 16).....it is what it is.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vagitron Posted August 24, 2015 Report Share Posted August 24, 2015 Correct o mundo....Tuitt was actually ranked dead last for all 3-4 rookie DE's last season...earning negative scores 13 out of 17 weeks..... Looks like he could evolve to be a specialized pass rusher, but is plain ole terrible against the run.... Finished with a -10.2 score for the season(16th out of 16).....it is what it is.... Did I miss something? He wasn't a full time starter last season and he was a rookie. I can't wait to beat the shit out of the browns twice this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted August 24, 2015 Report Share Posted August 24, 2015 Did I miss something? He wasn't a full time starter last season and he was a rookie. Miss something?.....I dont think so... Those were rookie rankings.....so ALL of them are rookies.....and the good ones started(and scored better).... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vagitron Posted August 24, 2015 Report Share Posted August 24, 2015 Miss something?.....I dont think so... Those were rookie rankings.....so ALL of them are rookies.....and the good ones started(and scored better).... Rookies don't start in a dick lebeau defense the vast majority. See good teams don't need to start rookies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted August 24, 2015 Report Share Posted August 24, 2015 well....I would say that the Steelers have started plenty of rookies.....including Tuitt the last 5 games of 2014.....and Tuitt also had as many snaps as all your other linemen, except for Heyward.....so, whther they started him right away doesnt matter, they played him a lot.... And it doesnt really matter if you start or not....just grades how you play, when you play.....and he graded out as bad.... So...our first round picks suck when they dont start...but yours dont because it's by design?...... Justin Gilbert rookie score -2.5.......Tuitt -10.2......so who has a score thats 5 times lower than who?....(and the same # of snaps) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vagitron Posted August 24, 2015 Report Share Posted August 24, 2015 well....I would say that the Steelers have started plenty of rookies.....including Tuitt the last 5 games of 2014.....and Tuitt also had as many snaps as all your other linemen, except for Heyward.....so, whther they started him right away doesnt matter, they played him a lot.... And it doesnt really matter if you start or not....just grades how you play, when you play.....and he graded out as bad.... So...our first round picks suck when they dont start...but yours dont because it's by design?...... Justin Gilbert rookie score -2.5.......Tuitt -10.2......so who has a score thats 5 times lower than who?....(and the same # of snaps) . Tuitt wasn't a first round pick, and he certainly wasn't in the top ten. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted August 24, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 24, 2015 Right now as he was just a rookie last season. If by "right now" you mean the 2015 season....yes, right now, Tuitt is no better than Canty of Balt., Michael Johnson of Cincy, or Des Bryant of the Browns. And I have Johnson the best of that bunch......not that anyone is particularly head and shoulders better than the others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted August 24, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 24, 2015 Freshman year - 13 Sopho year - 12 Junior year - 14 Now correct me if I'm wrong but the college football season is 12 games no? He played every regular season game and a few post season. He missed a couple of games in there. I was thinking that he was not able to play in one of the bowl games. He was certainly banged up. I remember being not happy about him not being out there somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted August 24, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 24, 2015 Did I miss something? He wasn't a full time starter last season and he was a rookie. I can't wait to beat the shit out of the browns twice this season. Yes, I think you did.......though Mudfly helped you miss it by not treating you like a 4 year old. He does need to spell things out fully and clearly for you. By his statement it was clear to me that he was referring to the PFF scores that he has used frequently that grades the performances of NFL players. And he was interpreting Tuitt to have had a particularly terrible score. Correct me if I am wrong Mud. So, apparently, if there is any shit kicking to be done, based on past performance, Tuitt will not be in on the act. Mud.....give those scores if you will for all Defensive Ends in the AFCN. In the words of The Wolf: pretty please, with sugar on top. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted August 24, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 24, 2015 . Tuitt wasn't a first round pick, and he certainly wasn't in the top ten. I don't think he was trying to measure draft penis sized. It seem like he was simply measuring player's actual performance....draft status be damned. Looking at Mud's figures.....several of the best rookies were actually undrafted FAs. WE seem to be mixing up our threads here. Here is the data Mud gave on AFCN rookies from the other (rookie) thread: And here is the PFF breakdown for the top 10 in the AFCN.....(at least those that played a min 25% of snaps) 1) J. Bitonio......22.4 2) C. Mosely....11.3 3) K. Williams....8.7 4) T. Gabriel......6.9 5) R. Hewitt.......4.1 6) M. Bryant......2.6 7) J. Urschell....1.6 8) C. Gilmore....1.4 9) J. Hill.............1.4 10)J. Gilbert......-2.8 K. Williams and Gabriel....who, per this, rated out as the 3rd and 4th best rookies, were both UDFAs.. Mosley and Gilbert were round 1. Where were the others drafted? Not that that matters once they hit the field. (and that I think is Mud's point....who cares where they were drafted at this point. What matters is what they do. T. Gipson was undrafted....both of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trolling for dick Posted August 25, 2015 Report Share Posted August 25, 2015 Yea, I don't think it is quite so clear. I have the Steelers having the top dog in only like 3-4 spots: QB with BR RB with Bell Timmons at LB Brown as one of top 2 WRs. I would still put AJ Green as the top WR in the division.....but since we get to put 2 WRs int he starting lineup, Brown gets a spot. But Gilbert: no way. (I think he is at best 3rd) Heath Miller: 5 years ago, sure. Not now Shazier is completely unproven. Maybe in a year or two he can be elevated....but not yet. Tuitt....no. Competent....but not any better than the other NTs. Are you watching the Bengals Bucs game? After listening to an entire segment during the game after an interception going through Green's hands about how Dalton has 27 int's throwing to Green and the point being made that many of them are Green's fault, I think it's more than clear who the better receiver is. They just showed 3 or 4 examples of Green not finishing routes or just plain letting the ball go through his hands for interceptions. Hosestly I'd never heard that stat before but Gruden just talked for several minutes about it. AB is better and it's clear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vagitron Posted August 25, 2015 Report Share Posted August 25, 2015 Brown is the best receiver in the league. Period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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