Tim Couch Pulls Out Posted September 30, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 30, 2015 0 and 1 against Johnny Manziel head to head. WSS Also a true stat. If you would have asked me how I would want his season to play out last month, I'd have said as much. Only difference is that I'd have wanted Manziel to be undefeated to this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieHardBrownsFan Posted September 30, 2015 Report Share Posted September 30, 2015 And yet we start McClown............ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suomi Posted September 30, 2015 Report Share Posted September 30, 2015 "Mariota is poised to be a very similar player as Aaron Rodgers." Whoa, let the young QB get a few seasons under his belt before he starts getting mentioned in the same breath as the best QB in the NFL. You sound like you're back to believing the ESPN hype. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcam222 Posted September 30, 2015 Report Share Posted September 30, 2015 13 for 24? Alright sure he is great, I love missing wide open touchdowns, and overthrowing our 6'5 TE, I especially love left handed throws!! Besides the fact that you can't deny that he is always taking a bee line out of the pocket, he simply can't see. . I have never been a Johnny fan boy but this post is just stupid. Have you watched Josh's attempts at the long ball?? Were you there to see Johnny dropping dimes on Benji? Actually leading receivers? Did he make some questionable throws? Absolutely but so do vets. I think if we let him throw 30 times in that game he puts up legendary stats. The ONLY thing horrible was ball security. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wargograw Posted September 30, 2015 Report Share Posted September 30, 2015 Vince Young won rookie of the year. Let's wait more than 3 games on Mariota. He's played two terrible defenses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Couch Pulls Out Posted October 1, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 1, 2015 "Mariota is poised to be a very similar player as Aaron Rodgers." Whoa, let the young QB get a few seasons under his belt before he starts getting mentioned in the same breath as the best QB in the NFL. You sound like you're back to believing the ESPN hype. Do you know what the word poised means? I'll pause while you look it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterDog Posted October 1, 2015 Report Share Posted October 1, 2015 Are you folks serious? After 3 games he's thrown for 833 yards, 8 TD and 2 INT (one was bounced off of his TE's chest). That's 277 yards and 2 TD a game. It amazes me how POOR some of us Brown's fans evaluate QBs. Fock'n piss poor. No wonder the Browns never get it right. We got moron fans pushing for midget QB that can only play school yard football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D Bone Posted October 1, 2015 Report Share Posted October 1, 2015 Marcus Mariota named September’s top offensive rookie http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/10/01/marcus-mariota-named-septembers-top-offensive-rookie/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted October 1, 2015 Report Share Posted October 1, 2015 However, the point of this thread is to continually remind those that thought Mariota was a "gimmick QB with no NFL future" that they were wrong. So how do you look through a system as pronounced as Oregon's and see the player? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted October 1, 2015 Report Share Posted October 1, 2015 Are you folks serious? It amazes me how POOR some of us Brown's fans evaluate QBs....... No wonder the Browns never get it right. ....gulp...... I didnt even know we were picking em....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Couch Pulls Out Posted October 1, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 1, 2015 So how do you look through a system as pronounced as Oregon's and see the player? Honestly, I don't look for things I like moreso I look for things I don't like. I'll do one or two full games just watching the QB to see any traits I don't like. For instance, (and this may be a bad example) but Carr and Osweiler both stuck out as having a high proportion of quick, short passes. In Osweiler's case, I believe there was a game I watched where he threw 4-5 WR screens on one drive, just alternating the field. Same with Goff this year - he's putting up good numbers but he's doing it against weak competition and with high percentage throws. Stuff like that won't work in the NFL, so with prospects like that, I then have to look at throws they COULD make in the NFL. Personally, as of right now, I don't think Goff has it. I thought Carr had the talent, but not the experience in the right system. And I thought Osweiler had the body, but not the accuracy. We'll see about him. If I had to break down what I do look for, though, I guess it would be four or five main things: One - I only pay attention to "NFL" throws. (15 yard outs, deep posts, sluggos, back shoulder fades). I look at ball placement and whether or not an NFL corner could have made a play on it. I know it's antithesis to the point I am making in another thread, but I think "could Haden pick this?" I discount wide open throws, checkdowns, busted plays, and high percentage throws like drags and zips. Two - I pay attention to pre-snap. Does the QB make any pre-snap calls? Does the system vary their cadence? Is there even a cadence? Or does the QB just walk to the line, clap, and wait for the ball to be snapped? It's not a no-go if they are in a non-cadence system, but it is a factor to me. Three - I watch for progression. Many college systems are half-field reads - it's rare to see college QB's work across the field, so I don't let a lack of that influence my decision too much. It's more "does the QB lock onto one read the entire time? Is there any sort of head fake or baiting the safety? Four - I look for fundamentals. Where does he hold the ball? How quick is his delivery? Does he pat the ball before throwing it? Does he have a hitch in his delivery? Are his feet active? Does he drive toward the target or fall away? No one thing is enough to write off a prospect, but I don't personally like when they have more than two glaring fundamental flaws. Five - I look for pocket skills and poise. Does he work up the pocket? Does he work out? Does he bail at the first sign of trouble? When there is trouble, what does he do? Does he keep his eyes downfield? The last one is kind of just a feel thing that encapsulates all of those, but it's "Does this guy look like an NFL QB?" It's not size, stature, athletic ability, offensive system, etc... it's just a gut feel. Go back and watch Aaron Rodgers at Cal - he looks like a QB. Good fundamentals, active feet, live arm, making calls, driving through most of his throws - he just looks the part. Same with Tom Brady, you go back and watch and he looks the part. A little small, sure. But he makes NFL reads and NFL throws. Granted, hindsight is 20/20, but it's a system that has worked for me moreso than any Browns system has worked for them. So far (and I admit I haven't watched too much) I'm out on Goff, in on Cook, in on Barrett, out on Hackenberg, out on Dobbs, mildly intrigued by Kessler (I get a Big Ben mixed with Matt Leinart feel...but I hate the way he throws), out on Towles, iffy on Kiel. In order, I'd go: Cook Barrett Kessler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted October 1, 2015 Report Share Posted October 1, 2015 Thanks for taking the time, TC... Mechanics and arm strength sure... easy to see... not easy to get agreement upon. Can't count the number of release debates I was in over Wheezy. Just yesterday an analyst (might have been Phil Savage) talked about Brandon's baseball background and concerns about getting the wind up out of his football throwing motion... but I digress. Really agree on the feet... provides insight not only into throwing fundamentals, but also pocket presence. With "look to the sideline" becoming so prevalent pre-snap is going away. Last obvious example of a QB having the Pre-snap "it" that I can recall was Luck at Stanford. Reads/ progression... without an all-22 can be hard, at least for me to evaluate. Head motion can't detect reads missed. I think I'll just focus on linemen... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Couch Pulls Out Posted October 1, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 1, 2015 Thanks for taking the time, TC... Mechanics and arm strength sure... easy to see... not easy to get agreement upon. Can't count the number of release debates I was in over Wheezy. Just yesterday an analyst (might have been Phil Savage) talked about Brandon's baseball background and concerns about getting the wind up out of his football throwing motion... but I digress. Really agree on the feet... provides insight not only into throwing fundamentals, but also pocket presence. With "look to the sideline" becoming so prevalent pre-snap is going away. Last obvious example of a QB having the Pre-snap "it" that I can recall was Luck at Stanford. Reads/ progression... without an all-22 can be hard, at least for me to evaluate. Head motion can't detect reads missed. I think I'll just focus on linemen... You're right, it's very difficult to get a read without a 22. That's where the "look for minuses rather than plusses" thing comes in. It's easier to see when a guy IS in a rapid-fire, single read offense than when he isn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiamat63 Posted October 1, 2015 Report Share Posted October 1, 2015 Are you folks serious? After 3 games he's thrown for 833 yards, 8 TD and 2 INT (one was bounced off of his TE's chest). That's 277 yards and 2 TD a game. It amazes me how POOR some of us Brown's fans evaluate QBs. Fock'n piss poor. No wonder the Browns never get it right. We got moron fans pushing for midget QB that can only play school yard football. The stats through RG3's first three games arent a hell of a lot further off from Mariota's. I still stand by my assessment that Mariota won't be some pro bowl QB with longevity. Only time will tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted October 2, 2015 Report Share Posted October 2, 2015 I think I'll just focus on linemen... Ha!.....I avoid QB's myself...... That's where the "look for minuses rather than plusses" thing comes in. It's easier to see when a guy IS in a rapid-fire, single read offense than when he isn't. Agree.....for me, at least, it's definitely easier to find the QB bad spots than the good ones.......so, while I can rarely guess who's gonna be good, I have a decent hit percentage on who's not...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Couch Pulls Out Posted October 2, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 2, 2015 The stats through RG3's first three games arent a hell of a lot further off from Mariota's. I still stand by my assessment that Mariota won't be some pro bowl QB with longevity. Only time will tell. Eh, no. Not really. 60 comp | 89 att | 747 yards | 67% | 4 TD | 1 INT | 103.5 Rat | 61 comp | 97 att | 833 yards | 62% | 8 TD | 2 INT | 109.2 Rat | On paper, that's vaguely close, I guess. The difference is this: 33 carries | 198 yards | 3 TD 5 carries | 25 yards | 0 TD RG3 was a hell of a player in his first year. He was also run into the ground because his athleticism was emphasized and exploited by the coaching staff, rather than harnessed and utilized properly. Before his first injury (concussion, Atlanta, Week 5), RG3 carried the ball an average of 10 times per game. Then, RG3 goes 8 more weeks, averaging 9 carries per game, until he's hit by Ngata and sprains his LCL. He sits out against us, and then is forced to play next week even though Dr. James Andrews doesn't clear him. He goes two more games, then tears his knee up in a non-contact injury, still rushing 13 times since his Baltimore knee injury. Mariota is just as athletically talented as Griffin. Mariota runs a 4.5 40 to RG3's 4.4. Mariota averaged about 100 carries/season in Oregon, to RG3's 125/season. He can certainly rush if he wanted. However, he hasn't. Many expected the Titans to utilize a read option offense, similar to what Mariota ran in college. Instead, they are refining his pocket skills. He's not asked to run the ball, he's asked to make reads and throw. And he's doing that, whereas Griffin failed when asked to do the same thing. It's easy to make the comparison to RG3 at first glance, because it was crammed down your throat that they are the same QB. They are not...at all. It's not even close. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WalterWhite Posted October 2, 2015 Report Share Posted October 2, 2015 No wonder the Browns never get it right. We got moron fans pushing for midget QB that can only play school yard football. You're a dummy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterDog Posted October 2, 2015 Report Share Posted October 2, 2015 You're a dummy The lead cheerleader for drafting Manziel calls me a dummy. How fitting. We could had Carr! We could had Bridgewater! We could had Mack! We could had traded all our picks to get Mariotta, but NOOOOOO....we want to roll out WalterWhite's midget QB who can't see over opposing defenders and can't read defense. Why don't you blow me Walter! Just blow me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasAg1969 Posted October 2, 2015 Report Share Posted October 2, 2015 MasterDog how about putting your mouth where your mouth is. If JM turns out to be the long missing Browns QB you can blow Walter on the 50 yd line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted October 2, 2015 Report Share Posted October 2, 2015 Not exactly my idea of half-time entertainment... A&M was already co-ed when you were there? Right, Ag? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasAg1969 Posted October 3, 2015 Report Share Posted October 3, 2015 Not exactly my idea of half-time entertainment... A&M was already co-ed when you were there? Right, Ag? LOL! "In 1963, the A&M Board of Directors officially reversed their stance on admitting women.The wives and daughters of faculty, staff and students as well as female staff members were finally allowed to officially participate in undergraduate programs" That was 2 years before my freshman year. A few years later they opened enrollment on an equal basis for all. My daughter is a 1999 graduate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColumbusKing Posted October 4, 2015 Report Share Posted October 4, 2015 . I have never been a Johnny fan boy but this post is just stupid. Have you watched Josh's attempts at the long ball?? Were you there to see Johnny dropping dimes on Benji? Actually leading receivers? Did he make some questionable throws? Absolutely but so do vets. I think if we let him throw 30 times in that game he puts up legendary stats. The ONLY thing horrible was ball security. Woah Buddy, That post was 2 weeks ago. after Johnnys abysmal game against the Jets. If you looked around on here you would find my post about Johnny being very good against TEN. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimpy07 Posted October 5, 2015 Report Share Posted October 5, 2015 TC, what's your opinion, firstly on Johnny? Boom or bust? Please elaborate. Second Cardale Jones, has he got the skill set to be a FQB or over hyped and over rated? Was interested to read what you wrote about Jared Goff, I have been hopeful that if we find ourselves with the chance to take him before Jones (assuming rightly or wrongly we draft a qb high) that we do the right thing and take Goff. (obviously just my opinion) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Couch Pulls Out Posted October 6, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 6, 2015 TC, what's your opinion, firstly on Johnny? Boom or bust? Please elaborate. Second Cardale Jones, has he got the skill set to be a FQB or over hyped and over rated? Was interested to read what you wrote about Jared Goff, I have been hopeful that if we find ourselves with the chance to take him before Jones (assuming rightly or wrongly we draft a qb high) that we do the right thing and take Goff. (obviously just my opinion) JM possesses all of the skills an NFL QB would need. If he were 4 inches taller, played in a pro system, and absolutely quiet off the field, he would have been an absolute lock at #1 Hell, if he were 6'5", 230, he would have been lumped up in discussion as top athletic prospect of all time. Quick release, strong arm, drives intermediates with the best of them, large hands, elusive and mobile (which some people don't acknowledge as two different things but certainly are), high football intelligence. Also smarmy, spoiled, small, and any other things you can think of that would make you want to punch him square in the face. His fundamentals coming out of college weren't unfortunate, despite the "backyard" nature of play he was known for. Manziel was/is a good QB, he just needed development, size, maruration and a mental tightening of the screws to be a legitimate top end prospect. Luckily, three of those things can be fixed. Personally, I love Cardale. Not as a prospect, just as a player and figure of entertainment. He's fun and just has a good time, which sometimes translates into his play in good ways. He's a developmental prospect, but he's physically almost perfect for the AFC North. He is also inaccurate when pressured and seemingly a simpleton when it comes to the technical aspects of playing the position. But I'll be damned if he can't throw it a country mile. His release isn't as slow as you anticipate it being, just based on size and style of play, but it's also nothing to write home about. Right now he's like a Byron Leftwich, with Cam Newton's personality, Kyle Boller's arm strength and Jay Cutler's maturation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimpy07 Posted October 6, 2015 Report Share Posted October 6, 2015 Thanks ? One last question.... Cardale or Barrett? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted October 6, 2015 Report Share Posted October 6, 2015 No on Cardale. He's a bigger project than JM. He's played himself out of untold millions so far this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted October 6, 2015 Report Share Posted October 6, 2015 Yes johnny is little small but keep in mind how many out right busts there are at 6 feet 5 inches and 230 pounds. WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Couch Pulls Out Posted October 6, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 6, 2015 Thanks One last question.... Cardale or Barrett? As a QB right now...Barrett, hands down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted October 6, 2015 Report Share Posted October 6, 2015 I was going to ask "at which level?" At THE Ohio State University... Barrett. At the next level? I'd lean Cardale. Mostly because of how much I ha... er... really don't like running QBs at the Pro level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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