Is it time to admit these guys arent as talented as we've been led to beleive?

[BaconHound]

Haden has been average, bad, or terrible, and it's completely ignored because of a couple good games. I think it's worth addressing. When you pay a guy as much as team has, you're not supposed to see that type of performance. Patrick Peterson was another guy like Haden who got a big pay day and has been abused a lot. It's strange that sometimes hype creates reality. I do think Joe is a good player who had a bad game, but his bad games are too frequent in my opinion.

 

Justin Gilbert could get better, but it's really weird how he's not getting better. That pick-6 vs. Luck was really encouraging last season. Maybe he can't get out of his own head, it sounds like he has some psychological stuff going on.

 

I'm one of the biggest Haden critics but he was very good last year after the slow start. He is a physical corner that doesn't always get in the best positions but in the current NFL structure to be matched up against the #1 week in and week out isn't easy. I would not have given him that salary though.

[Canton Dawg]

I'm one of the biggest Haden critics but he was very good last year after the slow start. He is a physical corner that doesn't always get in the best positions but in the current NFL structure to be matched up against the #1 week in and week out isn't easy. I would not have given him that salary though.

I think your right, Joe typically starts slow but as the season progresses so does his game.

[wargograw]

Host the top-32, 2015 NYG Defense and post a total of 60 yards rushing... No Problem...

81. They were playing from behind so only had 22 attempts. Still, Randle got to 4 ypc omfortably. And NYG actually did have both tackles break out last year.

[Clevfan4life]

But at what point do you have to accept that a system, continuity, and stability might just be better than throwing the baby out with the bath water every year. It's plain and simple fact that starting over repeatedly will NOT work......period.

 

Oh at the coaching staff you're 100% right, and I am in no way suggesting we need to look elsewhere again in that respect. We see in Buffalo the last few years what Pettine is capable of given time. Obviously there were other people in Buffalo that helped draft/sign said players, but that's the kind of defense I want in Cleveland and I don't think we have the guys to do it.

[miktoxic]

dc vs. marvel is even worse.

[sisky fringo]

Our strength of schedule is harder this year and talent on offense is less.

 

it's way too soon for either of these statements.

[gumby73]

I think your right, Joe typically starts slow but as the season progresses so does his game.

Joe sitting most of camp w hammy did not help but you can't stop the same thing Jimmy Graham showed everyone. A taller receiver with a ball thrown high but catchable to taller WR Joe has no chance unless he is step for step. Those balls thrown to Marshall were well placed. Just hope for the day the FO here can move a 5th rounder to a player like Marshall. Its not because of QB play in NY but it is living in NY is why Marshall is there imo..