stillmotion Posted September 14, 2015 Report Share Posted September 14, 2015 - Johnny did decent when he looked calm earlier in the pocket, but as the game went on, he turned nervous, almost panicky and tried to scramble too much. This isn't college anymore, and under pressure is when many of his bad decisions happened. He just didn't get rid of the ball quick enough. - We let chris f$%#ing ivory run a train on us.... c'mon guys. we're better than that. - Marshall owned Haden. whats up with that? C'mon Haden. Marshall is talented but he isn't better than Dez, Calvin, or Antonio Brown. We're going to have tougher matchups coming up and he needs to get back in old form. - What is up with the penalties? Some of them were bad on our part, but did the refs have something against us? Let's pick it up next week and get back into sync. The Jets were a better team than people give them credit for, and had it not been for all the penalties, and marshall taking the interception back, there's a chance it would of been a very close game. Johnny isn't ready yet in my opinion, but I saw good flashes during the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Opal312 Posted September 14, 2015 Report Share Posted September 14, 2015 What is your opinion on when Manziel will be ready? I'm a life long Browns die hard fan living near Tampa. Can he ever really improve without playing. Mike Pettine said their practice rules gives the 2nd string very little reps. I saw Winston throw his first NFL pass today for a pick six. But in time he will be their franchise QB. Mariota looked real good and the Tennessee defense makes me want Ray Horton back! Right now I just want them to be competitive. Today was awful. There were few bright spots. I think Pettine needs to become a better coach too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sisky fringo Posted September 14, 2015 Report Share Posted September 14, 2015 Marshall is talented but he isn't better than Dez, Calvin, or Antonio Brown i concur with most everything you wrote except this. personally I feel Brandon Marshall is every bit as talented as all of the above, and arguably even better and more dominant than Brown because of his physicality, and overall a more complete player--Brown may have more speed but Marshall can block like Heath Miller...to Steel ur example. What is up with the penalties? Some of them were bad on our part, but did the refs have something against us? this ^^ i say irrefutably yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ibleedbrown Posted September 14, 2015 Report Share Posted September 14, 2015 I'm starting to think Haden may be a slow starter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sisky fringo Posted September 14, 2015 Report Share Posted September 14, 2015 hogwash. do you have any evidence to support this accusation?!? on second thought, i guess i kinda see where you're coming from. what do you think may have caused it? u think he may have been intimidated by Buster's new blonde highlights? or maybe preoccupied by thinking about how the orange pants look to Darelle on the sidelines? he also has some questionable baby making skills...as far as i know Joe doesn't have any kids, so simply being in the presence of Antonio R.C. could have left him feeling entirely inadequate and totally blown his confidence, forcing him to cancel a trip to the club later on. poor fella. i bet he's probably out getting his mighty mouse tat lasered off as we speak. it will be a miracle if he bounces back at all now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aggie Brown fan Posted September 14, 2015 Report Share Posted September 14, 2015 I didn't see the whole game, just highlights, BUT It seems that the whole game changed when McCown goes down. From 7-0 up to 0-0 and no starting qb is a huge mental hurdle for a team to overcome, especially including all the drama surrounding the backup qb... If McCown gets down after getting the first down, then the guys get a td,, the whole game is different. Then the interception-turned-fumble just added to it, and things just snowballed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hx214 Posted September 14, 2015 Report Share Posted September 14, 2015 I didn't see the whole game, just highlights, BUT It seems that the whole game changed when McCown goes down. From 7-0 up to 0-0 and no starting qb is a huge mental hurdle for a team to overcome, especially including all the drama surrounding the backup qb... If McCown gets down after getting the first down, then the guys get a td,, the whole game is different. Not that it's a huge deal, but it was 3rd and goal, so he was going for 6 points instead of 3. Going up 7 after a 10 minute drive is a huge deal. Just the Browns luck that he takes a head shot and gets knocked out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchie Posted September 14, 2015 Report Share Posted September 14, 2015 Am I the only person asking for a helmet hit on McCowan? Clearly leading with the head on the tackle. Not saying it was dirty - but why wasn't it a penalty? I expect any helemt to helmet hit on a QB to be a flag. What am I missing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted September 14, 2015 Report Share Posted September 14, 2015 Am I the only person asking for a helmet hit on McCowan? Clearly leading with the head on the tackle. Not saying it was dirty - but why wasn't it a penalty? I expect any helemt to helmet hit on a QB to be a flag. What am I missing? Once he tucks and runs he becomes a ball carrier, not subject to the QB protections. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted September 14, 2015 Report Share Posted September 14, 2015 How do you turn the ball over 5 times, commit 12 (accepted) penalties and hope to do anything but get beaten by three TDs? There's plenty of other analysis to be done, like how to get the run game going, how to stop opponents, but when it comes down to it, penalties and turnovers lost us this game. They killed drives, they took points off the board for us and put them on for the jets. They scored three TDs off of turnovers, and prevented one for us. That's a 28-point swing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miktoxic Posted September 14, 2015 Report Share Posted September 14, 2015 both mccown and manziel looked great until the forward progress of self-fuckiness took over. pettine too. looked great and confident. now looks pissed and confused. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieHardBrownsFan Posted September 14, 2015 Report Share Posted September 14, 2015 McCown is going to get killed if he keeps running like a RB. Pettine needs to show some fucking emotion on the sidelines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieHardBrownsFan Posted September 14, 2015 Report Share Posted September 14, 2015 http://www.foxsports.com/nfl/story/johnny-manziel-shows-progress-for-cleveland-browns-week-1-quick-reads-091315 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted September 14, 2015 Report Share Posted September 14, 2015 If McCown *is* going to take off and run like that, he needs to actually tuck the ball, not hold it like a loaf of bread. As soon as he crosses the LOS, he needs to put it away - he didn't, and the big hit knocked it loose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dste Ace Posted September 14, 2015 Report Share Posted September 14, 2015 Not that it's a huge deal, but it was 3rd and goal, so he was going for 6 points instead of 3. Going up 7 after a 10 minute drive is a huge deal. Just the Browns luck that he takes a head shot and gets knocked out It also bears pointing out that on 1st and goal Greco got flagged for jumping before the snap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldBrownsFan Posted September 14, 2015 Report Share Posted September 14, 2015 I saw the intensity early in the game with the Browns and they did dominate much of the first half. So much of football is momentum and mistakes, penalties, turnovers kill momentum and we repeatedly did those things. After losing the momentum I saw the lack of intensity and focus. Losing McCown was huge because I believe our offense is designed around an experienced game managing qb and although Manziel made some good plays he turned the ball over too much. I want to see how this team responds next game to this disappointing loss and that will tell me more about where we are. I can see many other NFL teams struggling after losing their starting qb early in the game. I am not making excuses but we will know more about the Browns in how they respond against the Titans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrb12711 Posted September 14, 2015 Report Share Posted September 14, 2015 I think Manziel played a pretty good game honestly. He had I believe 3? (or two) good runs called back by a flag. I get in the NFL you can't run around all the time but you know any of those plays would have been nice chunk yards to get the offense moving. I can easily imagine that getting you after the 3rd time of putting your offense in a first down just to be called back. As I just said in another thread though, McCown deserves another shot at it-he had the offense moving great until he tried to fly like an eagle. Also, don't underestimate the fact that our guys just weren't getting open. I was getting that vibe the whole game-also, WOW the WR group is tiny. That's obviously not a shock going into the year but holy moly they look like little kids compared to other people out there. What irks me a little is that the refs were obviously overtly looking for holding from the Browns line though. Several calls were by definition holding, but you can literally call that on 90% of plays in the NFL if you wanted to. I have a hard time believing the flag disparity in that game was THAT bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sisky fringo Posted September 14, 2015 Report Share Posted September 14, 2015 Am I the only person asking for a helmet hit on McCowan? Clearly leading with the head on the tackle. Not saying it was dirty - but why wasn't it a penalty? I expect any helemt to helmet hit on a QB to be a flag. What am I missing? i felt like the refs definitely could have thrown a flag for that and had offsetting penalties had it fit their narrative. it was an enormous shift in the game, with the Browns losing their starting QB and the Jets getting the ball on the 35. with some slight tweaks and some luck, the Browns coulda scored and special teams coulda kicked off and maybe even made a nice play. it was a rough moment that had tremendous negative impact on the overall game. the only positive i saw on that play aside from McCown's ambition was Duke showing some heart and Browns pride and getting into Captain-Babymaker-Cromarties face after the fumble. i liked the passion and loyalty he displayed on that play, albeit driven by frustration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ibleedbrown Posted September 14, 2015 Report Share Posted September 14, 2015 hogwash. do you have any evidence to support this accusation?!? on second thought, i guess i kinda see where you're coming from. what do you think may have caused it? u think he may have been intimidated by Buster's new blonde highlights? or maybe preoccupied by thinking about how the orange pants look to Darelle on the sidelines? he also has some questionable baby making skills...as far as i know Joe doesn't have any kids, so simply being in the presence of Antonio R.C. could have left him feeling entirely inadequate and totally blown his confidence, forcing him to cancel a trip to the club later on. poor fella. i bet he's probably out getting his mighty mouse tat lasered off as we speak. i will be a miracle if he bounces back at all now. No real evidence, just a hazy recollection of a not so hot start last year, and maybe the year before. I'm not really a research guy, so feel free to prove all that wrong with analytical stats and shit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sisky fringo Posted September 14, 2015 Report Share Posted September 14, 2015 i think you might be right. i was just pullin legs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasAg1969 Posted September 14, 2015 Report Share Posted September 14, 2015 I will be interested to see tour's analysis of line play the second half compared to the first. It was my impression they were collapsing much faster, thus forcing a lot more running from JM. Also it did not seem our receivers were separating very well either compared to the first half. For a "running team" we absolutely sucked and presented no threat at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonBrown Posted September 14, 2015 Report Share Posted September 14, 2015 Some tweets from @dan_labbe today show the isses you have as team when Johnny is your QB. This stuff is in Johnny's DNA, he's never going to change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbedward Posted September 14, 2015 Report Share Posted September 14, 2015 I think the first turnover was a total killer. 90-yard 10 minute drive only to lose the ball (and starting QB). The fumbled interception another killer that they scored after, and the third one was a bad decision by johnny early in the 3rd quarter, when we were still in the ball game (probably the last nail). I disagreed with many holding calls, holding happens on every play so unless the arms are extended I don't think a flag should be thrown. Johnny played better in the first half. He was calmer, less happy feet. But there was plenty of bad (that you may make excuses for, but lets assume we aren't). Missing the wide open touch down pass in the red zone (to a short Andrew Hawkins, which doesn't help) is a play I think he should have made - I think in the same situation, same play call McCown gets the touch down there. Many times he held the ball too long, more so in the 2nd half he got back to panicking after the 1st and 1/2 reads weren't there (even though he had time), sometimes he was entirely unaware in the pocket, and many times he'd chuck 100% with his arm instead of stepping into the throw when there wasn't significant pressure. You can make the excuse of lack of reps, rest of the team sucked (they did, and probably quit), but regardless McCown will surely get the nod if he gets cleared this week. I don't think we should even really be talking about the refs though: - We couldn't have had a worse running game. Who's to blame? Probably a lot of people. - Our defense got bullied and embarassed by Chris Ivory. How many other defenses does Chris Ivory bully and embarass? Not that many. - Brandon Marshall seemed to be Fitz's favorite target, and Haden couldn't keep up. - Donte Whitner was a non-factor, more of missed tackles, hesitation, and missed assignments. I still miss TJ Ward. - The one catch on the sidelines that put the jets in or near the red zone, to Marshall. It was not a catch as Marshall bobbled it out of bounds, mistake by Pettine not to throw the flag. - The first drive of the game was pretty much the McCown show. He did an excellent job, and is by far the biggest reason the offense had success at all on that drive. I'm sure it's not easy, with everybody dropping passes and the running game not working - but McCown made it work, which is nice. I appreciate the effort to get the TD after the long, 10 minute drive - because driving for 10 minutes and scoring 7 in the 1st Q would have set the tone, but the mistake - very browns-like - nullified everything good about that drive. - The catch by hartline on his knees, one arm across his body - has to be one of the best plays all week. Anyway, we'll see what happens next week. Hopefully it looks better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wargograw Posted September 14, 2015 Report Share Posted September 14, 2015 I will be interested to see tour's analysis of line play the second half compared to the first. It was my impression they were collapsing much faster, thus forcing a lot more running from JM. Also it did not seem our receivers were separating very well either compared to the first half. For a "running team" we absolutely sucked and presented no threat at all. The pass pro was fine throughout the game. Johnny took off too soon ALOT. I am pissed about the run blocking too though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieHardBrownsFan Posted September 14, 2015 Report Share Posted September 14, 2015 Since bottlegate, the refs have hated the Browns: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thenew23 Posted September 14, 2015 Report Share Posted September 14, 2015 Maybe it was the bright orange pants... got the refs attention... Just my theory... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sisky fringo Posted September 14, 2015 Report Share Posted September 14, 2015 Missing the wide open touch down pass in the red zone (to a short Andrew Hawkins, which doesn't help) is a play I think he should have made - I think in the same situation, same play call McCown gets the touch down there. i think in the same situation again, same play call Johnny gets the touchdown there. Mike Evans woulda caught that ball. not making excuses but McCown is in his 12th season and Johnny just turned 22. just my opinion but i bet he's gonna factor receiver's height into the equation moving forward. good points otherwise and i agree with your takes on their performance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sisky fringo Posted September 14, 2015 Report Share Posted September 14, 2015 The pass pro was fine throughout the game. Johnny took off too soon ALOT. I am pissed about the run blocking too though.the pass pro wasn't anywhere near a shining moment. it was more like acne, boils, and warts on the elephant man. as Garcia said, the lesser of two evils is still an evil. rewatch it. wanna see stellar pass pro? key in on the Jets OL yesterday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wargograw Posted September 14, 2015 Report Share Posted September 14, 2015 Who can argue with such phenomenal analysis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted September 14, 2015 Report Share Posted September 14, 2015 On holding... yes, holds occur every play. Since 1978 O-line have been permitted to place their open hands on defenders, it's been a fact of NFL life. But the principles that separate the calls from non-calls are pretty simple: position, duration and effect. - If you grab the outside of your opponent's frame... you are more likely to be flagged. - If you pull an opponent to either yourself or the ground... you get flagged. - If you prevent an opponent from disengaging from you... you get flagged. It's the last one that bites teams with scrambling QBs. When latched onto an opponent trying his damned best to rush through you, it is unnatural to "give up" control when he suddenly tries to pull away from you. On the Hartline catch... can we agree that the pass was not intended for him, but rather it was an overthrow of (I believe) a TE about 10-yards upfield? It seems that the whole game changed when McCown goes down. From 7-0 up to 0-0 and no starting qb is a huge mental hurdle for a team to overcome, especially including all the drama surrounding the backup qb... Could be that we are underestimating the early loss of an acknowledged team leader. But we did not collapse, rather we were ground down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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