Canton Dawg Posted November 19, 2015 Report Share Posted November 19, 2015 Is this the sound you hear as Browns RB coach Wilbert Montgomery, throws Farmer under the bus? Asked if he's satisfied with the commitment to the run, he said, "I can't answer that one. I can't answer that question because if you look at the history of guys that I had, they got the ball.'' Montgomery is also dismayed by the fact that none of his backs has become the bellcow like an Adrian Peterson in Minnesota or a rookie Todd Gurley in St. Louis. He's accustomed to coaching stars like Faulk, who's currently 10th on the NFL's all-time rushing list, and Steven Jackson, who's 17th. "We don't have that,'' he said. "We don't have guys that have been drafted that high that can do that. So you got a list of young guys that are trying to play their roles in whatever the role calls. There are things that Duke is good at doing that Isaiah Crowell is not good at doing. There's things Crow is good at that Duke is not.'' The rest of the article can be found here. . . http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2015/11/browns_wilbert_montgomery_cant.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canton Mike Posted November 19, 2015 Report Share Posted November 19, 2015 I'll bet Wilbert drools every time he hears the name, Zeke! It wouldn't hurt to have some larger WRs too. The kind who can block & also occupy more defenders, thus freeing the run game somewhat. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zombo Posted November 19, 2015 Report Share Posted November 19, 2015 I see we did "Metcalf up the middle" a couple times with Duke on Sunday. The faith in Crow has to be just about completely gone at 3.1 oer carry and one TD. But Duke won't last being a bell cow, time to mix Winston in. Z Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickers Posted November 19, 2015 Report Share Posted November 19, 2015 Wilbert Montgomery is a dumb Mo'Fo.. he needs to go too.. I hate the way he platoons RB's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Opal312 Posted November 19, 2015 Report Share Posted November 19, 2015 ELLIOT would be our Tod Gurley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasAg1969 Posted November 19, 2015 Report Share Posted November 19, 2015 ELLIOT would be our Tod Gurley Or Henry if we take Bosa 1st. Elliot will already be gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted November 19, 2015 Report Share Posted November 19, 2015 So only highly drafted guys can become bellcow backs? Got it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonBrown Posted November 19, 2015 Report Share Posted November 19, 2015 Sounds like he's covering his own failings, two rookies in West and Crowell showed talent and promise last year. One has gone and the other is going backwards, Wilbert hasn't done a good enough job with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LogicIsForSquares Posted November 19, 2015 Report Share Posted November 19, 2015 Or Henry if we take Bosa 1st. Elliot will already be gone. I would prefer Henry. The guy is a horse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasAg1969 Posted November 19, 2015 Report Share Posted November 19, 2015 I would prefer Henry. The guy is a horse. I totally agree. If you have a back that can blast thru a small hole for 3-5 yds every time, it opens up the tailor made PA game for one Johnny Manziel to excel in. LB's freeze and ends look a bit longer before trying to get the QB. Short/int passing game opens up. Our QB's have done an amazing job with no running threat this year. But they have also paid a high price with the sacks/hits. Some here find it hard to believe that Henry won't be another TR. They are totally different kinds of players. Henry prefers to run you over, not sign your dance card. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jiggins7919 Posted November 19, 2015 Report Share Posted November 19, 2015 We rank 31st in the league in rushing yards per game with around 75. Hard to believe there is a worse team than us, but apparently there is. However, we are dead last at yards per carry, with an abysmal 3.3 average. Not to mention our backs get hit in the backfield just about every damn time. Not sure what to do about this, but Manziel won't have a chance in hell unless we figure out how to have some balance. Defense needs to keep the game close, we have to figure out a way to score in the red zone, and our coaches simply HAVE TO find ways to run the freaking ball effectively. Despite playing pretty well on 3rd and very long last game, that is not a recipe for success...especially for young QB's. We need to keep it to 3rd and manageable if Johnny is going to have any success. And we are failing him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted November 19, 2015 Report Share Posted November 19, 2015 We rank 31st in the league in rushing yards per game with around 75. Hard to believe there is a worse team than us, but apparently there is. However, we are dead last at yards per carry, with an abysmal 3.3 average. Not to mention our backs get hit in the backfield just about every damn time. Not sure what to do about this, but Manziel won't have a chance in hell unless we figure out how to have some balance. Defense needs to keep the game close, we have to figure out a way to score in the red zone, and our coaches simply HAVE TO find ways to run the freaking ball effectively. Despite playing pretty well on 3rd and very long last game, that is not a recipe for success...especially for young QB's. We need to keep it to 3rd and manageable if Johnny is going to have any success. And we are failing him. Remember, our offensive line coach got fired for domestic abuse.....so that has been another coaching problem. I think the OC is OK....he is a rookie at it.....but the line play has been dismal, give the talent there. Honestly......Pettine's biggest failure has been in whom he has hired as asst. coaches. Moeller....O'Neil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted November 20, 2015 Report Share Posted November 20, 2015 Honestly......Pettine's biggest failure has been in whom he has hired as asst. coaches. Moeller....O'Neil. In fairness to him......he hired 11 guys in 13 days.....and had, basically, a pile of recently fired crap to pick them from..... Imagine taking over a company and having only 2 weeks to assemble your whole staff....and you can only pick from the unemployment line...... How good is that staff gonna be?.....And how long do they get to perform, before you start replacing them?..... I will say I didnt hear one single peep about the coaches or staff until a few weeks ago....If they are SO terrible and it's so obvious to everyone now, why was no one talking about this before?... .. A few months ago, we all loved these guys.....and suddenly....."everyone" says they are all bad......sounds like mob mentality to me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted November 20, 2015 Report Share Posted November 20, 2015 In fairness to him......he hired 11 guys in 13 days.....and had, basically, a pile of recently fired crap to pick them from..... Imagine taking over a company and having only 2 weeks to assemble your whole staff....and you can only pick from the unemployment line...... How good is that staff gonna be?.....And how long do they get to perform, before you start replacing them?..... I will say I didnt hear one single peep about the coaches or staff until a few weeks ago....If they are SO terrible and it's so obvious to everyone now, why was no one talking about this before?... .. A few months ago, we all loved these guys.....and suddenly....."everyone" says they are all bad......sounds like mob mentality to me What I "loved" was the potential of the talent that we have on the defensive side of the ball......and I still see that talent, even though injuries have affected it. That is why I am so down on this defensive coaching staff.......they are taking what I perceive to be quality talent.....and making it into a big pile of stinking shit. And the players know as well that that is exactly what is happening. I mean, I don't know.....they could go Bernie Kosar on this coaching staff and instead of a DL covering a RB or TE like the coverage calls for, he could rebel and rush the passer......and Kosar like, cause a fumble that is returned for a TD......but then get his ass chewed out by O'Neil and Pettine because he didn't follow his assignment. The fact is, some players know better what they can do and what to do than some coaches do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted November 20, 2015 Report Share Posted November 20, 2015 What I "loved" was the potential of the talent that we have on the defensive side of the ball......and I still see that talent, even though injuries have affected it. That is why I am so down on this defensive coaching staff.......they are taking what I perceive to be quality talent.....and making it into a big pile of stinking shit. And the players know as well that that is exactly what is happening. I mean, I don't know.....they could go Bernie Kosar on this coaching staff and instead of a DL covering a RB or TE like the coverage calls for, he could rebel and rush the passer......and Kosar like, cause a fumble that is returned for a TD......but then get his ass chewed out by O'Neil and Pettine because he didn't follow his assignmen The fact is, some players know better what they can do and what to do than some coaches do. And some players(who play like crap) like to deflect their bad performance on someone else....(Kruger?, Mingo?) But, like you just said, maybe the players should just be allowed to do whatever the hell they want, because they know better...??? Thats insane.... Here's an idea...... If Armonty or Kruger aren't a good enough LB'S to cover a TE or RB...then, maybe they just arent good enough.....because LB's cover.....(or, at least, the GOOD ones do)...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canton Dawg Posted November 20, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 20, 2015 In fairness to him......he hired 11 guys in 13 days.....and had, basically, a pile of recently fired crap to pick them from..... Imagine taking over a company and having only 2 weeks to assemble your whole staff....and you can only pick from the unemployment line...... How good is that staff gonna be?.....And how long do they get to perform, before you start replacing them?..... I will say I didnt hear one single peep about the coaches or staff until a few weeks ago....If they are SO terrible and it's so obvious to everyone now, why was no one talking about this before?... .. A few months ago, we all loved these guys.....and suddenly....."everyone" says they are all bad......sounds like mob mentality to me Will you just stop making sense? There's people here that don't like that approach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted November 20, 2015 Report Share Posted November 20, 2015 Will you just stop making sense? There's people here that don't like that approach. Agreed. IMMEDIATE RESULTS OR FIRE EVERYONE!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canton Dawg Posted November 20, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 20, 2015 Agreed. IMMEDIATE RESULTS OR FIRE EVERYONE!!!! For some unknown reason, some people believe that we will fire Pettine and bring in another rookie HC and will take us to the Super Bowl in his first year. Probably the same people that believe in Bigfoot and UFO's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeputyDawg Posted November 20, 2015 Report Share Posted November 20, 2015 "Kill them all, God will know His own!" Successful franchises surely have been the stable ones?! Good current examples include the Pats, Bengals, Packers..and more. Pettine needs time. How long he will be given is another matter, but we must not forget we have had a brutal schedule this year. Lets see the Draft and next season out as I will be surprised if we don't see improvements, as a rookie coach learns more and build his own team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted November 20, 2015 Report Share Posted November 20, 2015 And some players(who play like crap) like to deflect their bad performance on someone else....(Kruger?, Mingo?) But, like you just said, maybe the players should just be allowed to do whatever the hell they want, because they know better...??? Thats insane.... Here's an idea...... If Armonty or Kruger aren't a good enough LB'S to cover a TE or RB...then, maybe they just arent good enough.....because LB's cover.....(or, at least, the GOOD ones do)...... Sure.....lets have LBs that can do all things well.....then that would be perfect. But why have a player who is built to rush the passer not rush the passer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted November 20, 2015 Report Share Posted November 20, 2015 "Kill them all, God will know His own!" Successful franchises surely have been the stable ones?! Good current examples include the Pats, Bengals, Packers..and more. Pettine needs time. How long he will be given is another matter, but we must not forget we have had a brutal schedule this year. Lets see the Draft and next season out as I will be surprised if we don't see improvements, as a rookie coach learns more and build his own team. Toni Grossi called this last game one of the three worst defensive performances since 1999.....and given how much more talent we have on this defense compared to the 1999-2000 seasons, that says a lot, in a bad way. And yes, it is almost all poor coaching in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted November 20, 2015 Report Share Posted November 20, 2015 Sure.....lets have LBs that can do all things well.....then that would be perfect. But why have a player who is built to rush the passer not rush the passer. You mean ...Mingo, Armonty and Kruger....because word is that all three are pass rusher specialists... So, we can have them all rush the qb???.....which LB's do you recommend we use to cover and play the run??? Look ....Kruger cant even rush....PLUS, he has 12 tackles in 10 games and has rushed the QB over 250 times this season and only gotten 2 sacks....and weve asked him to cover only 49 times......so, with 250 rushes, where is the production from MR. Pass Rush... Why let a guy only do what he "thinks" he's good at, when he really isnt good at that either.... Example......Mr. Paul Kruger(our most disgruntled and vocal D player)......500 snaps....12 tackles.....2 sacks.......so he makes a stop once every 38 plays, which is about the worst in the league..and absolutely pathetic.....plus he leads the LB's in missed tackles, so he blows his chance even when he does get in position(which is rare)..... So....instead of taking all these one dimensional players and using them only one way, we need them to develop a more rounded game or get the hell out of dodge.... Coaches are trying to get that out of them, but so far, nothing...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canton Dawg Posted November 20, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 20, 2015 Example......Mr. Paul Kruger(our most disgruntled and vocal D player) AND most overpaid defensive player on the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted November 20, 2015 Report Share Posted November 20, 2015 You mean ...Mingo, Armonty and Kruger....because word is that all three are pass rusher specialists... So, we can have them all rush the qb???.....which LB's do you recommend we use to cover and play the run??? Yes, we can, that is what they are built to do.....on a rotating basis (not all three necessarily in on the same play) And Dansby/Robertson/Kirksey can cover better. Look ....Kruger cant even rush....PLUS, he has 12 tackles in 10 games and has rushed the QB over 250 times this season and only gotten 2 sacks....and weve asked him to cover only 49 times......so, with 250 rushes, where is the production from MR. Pass Rush... So, you say he can't rush.....yet he is better at covering? No. If he can't rush, bench him for someone who can. Why let a guy only do what he "thinks" he's good at, when he really isnt good at that either.... Well, his track record in the past says he was good at it.....so what are we supposed to go by? Example......Mr. Paul Kruger(our most disgruntled and vocal D player)......500 snaps....12 tackles.....2 sacks.......so he makes a stop once every 38 plays, which is about the worst in the league..and absolutely pathetic.....plus he leads the LB's in missed tackles, so he blows his chance even when he does get in position(which is rare)..... Or, maybe his is right about being used improperly.....that is still certainly a possibility. So....instead of taking all these one dimensional players and using them only one way, we need them to develop a more rounded game or get the hell out of dodge.... Coaches are trying to get that out of them, but so far, nothing...... Well, they can't coach players that can't play, is that what you are saying? Brilliant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAFBF Posted November 20, 2015 Report Share Posted November 20, 2015 Ya'll missed Grossi's take - it's much more revealing : http://www.espncleveland.com/common/more.php?m=49&post_id=51821 Ummm, like how about THIS : How do you explain the number of negative runs in the Pittsburgh game? “I was shocked at Pittsburgh because Pittsburgh was never a penetrating defense. They were always a key-read defense, a two-gap defense. They saw where you were going then they would run and make tackles. They played fast. This Pittsburgh defense was different. They penetrated, and that was the difference in the ball game because now, they’re getting you off your spot, they’re getting you off your landmark and that becomes a trouble for the backs and for the offensive linemen and the tight ends. “Now, you work against something that you thought they were and then you get in a game, they’re doing something totally different. Those guys were big and strong and explosive, and they were getting up field on us.” This is a fairly amazing admission. Our scouting report on the Steelers made a point of new defensive coordinator Keith Butler switching to a one-gap, penetrating scheme up front. Montgomery’s comments suggest the Browns did not do a good job of advance scouting the Steelers. So, they had 10 days (from Thursday night loss) to scout and watch film on the Steelers. Appears watching film on your opponents isn't needed . . . HTF did we get here? Maybe this was one of Shanhan's parting slides in his Powerpoint exit. I'm wondering how to even managed to win any games last year after reading this /smh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasAg1969 Posted November 21, 2015 Report Share Posted November 21, 2015 They were not aware of the change in the D with that much time to scout and prepare? I would have resigned rather than admit I was that incompetent!! My son coaches and scouts for a middle school D in the Dallas area. He spends every Saturday during the season breaking down the next week's opponent's offense. The O coaches do the same with the opposing defense. He even helps those coaches understand what those D's are trying to do as well. This is just sickening on so many levels that the Browns were caught of guard. Unfuckingbelievable! PS-his D was unscored upon because he is so thorough. Maybe Jimmie should hire him to write the scouting reports for the Browns on opposing D's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAFBF Posted November 21, 2015 Report Share Posted November 21, 2015 They were not aware of the change in the D with that much time to scout and prepare? I would have resigned rather than admit I was that incompetent!! My son coaches and scouts for a middle school D in the Dallas area. He spends every Saturday during the season breaking down the next week's opponent's offense. The O coaches do the same with the opposing defense. He even helps those coaches understand what those D's are trying to do as well. This is just sickening on so many levels that the Browns were caught of guard. Unfuckingbelievable! PS-his D was unscored upon because he is so thorough. Maybe Jimmie should hire him to write the scouting reports for the Browns on opposing D's. It's actually worse than that. Essentially, this is the D the Steelers have been using ALL YEAR . . . hell, maybe even since Dick LeBeau left. Either way, it shows a level of ineptness that is just staggering. Grossi's comments in reference to the Article on the Radio made it sound even more damning, and not just in regard to this question. No wonder the Defensive Players are trying to Mutiny, and there are O-Line comments as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vagitron Posted November 21, 2015 Report Share Posted November 21, 2015 It's actually worse than that. Essentially, this is the D the Steelers have been using ALL YEAR . . . hell, maybe even since Dick LeBeau left. Either way, it shows a level of ineptness that is just staggering. Grossi's comments in reference to the Article on the Radio made it sound even more damning, and not just in regard to this question. No wonder the Defensive Players are trying to Mutiny, and there are O-Line comments as well. Training camp the new d was installed. Let's Heyward and tuitt do their thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeputyDawg Posted November 21, 2015 Report Share Posted November 21, 2015 What's the thinking on Glenn Winston? I see his name on the depth chart, but not playing. Zombo wants to see him given a chance which makes me think he must have some talent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zombo Posted November 21, 2015 Report Share Posted November 21, 2015 What's the thinking on Glenn Winston? I see his name on the depth chart, but not playing. Zombo wants to see him given a chance which makes me think he must have some talent. He may be nothing special, but we have been holding a roster spot a long time, and things aren't going well with Crow, so probably a good time to get him some game action. Z Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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