nickers Posted November 21, 2015 Report Share Posted November 21, 2015 You mean ...Mingo, Armonty and Kruger....because word is that all three are pass rusher specialists... So, we can have them all rush the qb???.....which LB's do you recommend we use to cover and play the run??? Look ....Kruger cant even rush....PLUS, he has 12 tackles in 10 games and has rushed the QB over 250 times this season and only gotten 2 sacks....and weve asked him to cover only 49 times......so, with 250 rushes, where is the production from MR. Pass Rush... Why let a guy only do what he "thinks" he's good at, when he really isnt good at that either.... Example......Mr. Paul Kruger(our most disgruntled and vocal D player)......500 snaps....12 tackles.....2 sacks.......so he makes a stop once every 38 plays, which is about the worst in the league..and absolutely pathetic.....plus he leads the LB's in missed tackles, so he blows his chance even when he does get in position(which is rare)..... So....instead of taking all these one dimensional players and using them only one way, we need them to develop a more rounded game or get the hell out of dodge.... Coaches are trying to get that out of them, but so far, nothing...... Then explain to Me how Kruger got 9 sacks last season if he cant sack.. I contend that this ignorant coaching staff is holding him , and others back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canton Mike Posted November 21, 2015 Report Share Posted November 21, 2015 Then explain to Me how Kruger got 9 sacks last season if he cant sack.. I contend that this ignorant coaching staff is holding him , and others back. AMEN! Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted November 21, 2015 Report Share Posted November 21, 2015 Then explain to Me how Kruger got 9 sacks last season if he cant sack.. I contend that this ignorant coaching staff is holding him , and others back. Id be happy to... First, know that he only had one good year at Balt, which coincided with them winning the SB....the other years, his sack totals were 0-1-7.....so thats 8 sacks in 3 years.....THEN he came here and, in his first year here, he got only 4 sacks.....THEN, with PETTINE, he suddenly had 12 sacks(so is that because Pettine didnt know how to use him???... cause he got 8 more then he had with Horton the year before)... If you look at the 12 sacks he got last year(and I have),,,,3 were completely unblocked and 4 were due to Sheard collapsing his side and forcing the QB right into Krugers arms(IE, Sheard did the work, and Kruger got the credit) and 2 more were really just a scrambling QB who he happened to tackle before he crossed the LOS(not really sacks, per se).....so, watching the film, you will see that Kruger beat his man and only "earned" 3 real sacks.....thats it.....3.... Now.....this year.....he was being used EXACTLY the same as he was last year. EXACTLY....and in the first 4 games he was completely ineffective and had 1 sack and only 5 tackles. By Week 5, if you remember, they cut his snaps in half(from about 60, down to 28) and this was because he was playing like crap. At the pressy, Oneill tried to tell us it was to keep him rested, but that was a pile of crap and everyone knew it. The real reason was because Armonty was putting up better pass rushing #'s and they decided to give HIM the pass rush reps, instead of Kruger. In our system, one OLB rushes and the Will covers. All our OLBs are really rush guys, so while Kruger rushed, Armonty or Mingo had to cover. And the numbers showed that Armonty was more effective rushing....so they took the snaps from Kruger and gave them to Armonty(and now, Orchard too) Leaving Kruger to play the run and, occassionally cover. THIS pissed him off and he started complaining that they weren't using him "correctly"....when in truth, they just werent using him AS MUCH. His rush vs cover stats are exactly the same as last year, so he's not REALLY covering more. So.....Armonty gets to the QB TWICE as often as Kruger.....and Armonty, Orchard AND Mingo ALL cover better....and all play the run better(ie, make tackles).....So, in reality, the only thing Kruger has to offer is pass rushing and Armonty has beaten him out at that role.... Watch him play. He gets blocked out every single play ...being the designated pass rusher is a one on one battle....Kruger against a T.....edge rusher simply has to beat his man and get to the QB.....and thats not "scheme"....thats just one man being cut loose to get to the QB.....and he aint getting it done.... Stas wise...he's one of the worst tacklers in the league.....he is THE worst cover LB in the league.....and painfully average at rushing......and the coaches see this and have adjusted the LB roles to try to get better production.... and THAT is why Kruger now plays 30 snaps instead of 70....and why Orchard and Armonty have doubled their snaps.... And since Kruger aint playing as much, he's mad and pointing fingers....but that wasnt happening until he got pulled.....and that wasnt happening last year when he had better numbers..... Now, you tell me how a starting NFL LB averages barely over one tackle a game and keeps his job?......and how Pettine(or Oneill) are responsible for his inability to get around the edge(or seal the edge, ftm)...or how the Coaches make him miss more tackles than just about every other LB in the league(he is #2 in the NFL for OLB missed tackles).....or why Armonty can get to the QB once every 40 rushes, while Kruger gets there once every 125 rushes????...(same coaches, same system)... Every linebacker on the Browns....every single one(in or out) averages at least one tackle every 20 plays or less...Orchard 1-15, Dansby 1-10, Kirksey 1-14, Bryant 1-20.....Kruger 1 every 44....thats right, 1 tackle every 44 plays.....the next worst Brown(at ANY position) is one every 23 plays....(and the good ones are at 1-10..hitner, Dansby1-10, even Carder at 1-12)...... So Kruger is TWICE as bad as our next worst....and 3 to 4 times as bad as the team average..... So....there it is.....the other LB's are simply better.....he's losing his job to Armonty....and, if you look at his numbers, it's very clear that he isnt getting it done anywhere.....effective run stopper? NO.......effective in pass coverage? NO.....effectlive edge rusher? NO... And if he's not proficient at any of the 3 tools that a LB should have....what do we do with him?.....and if the ONLY thing he does is rush, then the other team pretty much knows what he's gonna do and will(does) stop him every time..... Coaches have no hand in his poor play....it's all on him and he's too weak to even admit it......and if HE cant admit he's playing poorly and lays all the blame on others, then he will NOT get better..... The numbers dont lie....and are a glaring indictment of his poor play.....period....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickers Posted November 21, 2015 Report Share Posted November 21, 2015 Id be happy to... First, know that he only had one good year at Balt, which coincided with them winning the SB....the other years, his sack totals were 0-1-7.....so thats 8 sacks in 3 years.....THEN he came here and, in his first year here, he got only 4 sacks.....THEN, with PETTINE, he suddenly had 12 sacks(so is that because Pettine didnt know how to use him???... cause he got 8 more then he had with Horton the year before)... If you look at the 12 sacks he got last year(and I have),,,,3 were completely unblocked and 4 were due to Sheard collapsing his side and forcing the QB right into Krugers arms(IE, Sheard did the work, and Kruger got the credit) and 2 more were really just a scrambling QB who he happened to tackle before he crossed the LOS(not really sacks, per se).....so, watching the film, you will see that Kruger beat his man and only "earned" 3 real sacks.....thats it.....3.... Now.....this year.....he was being used EXACTLY the same as he was last year. EXACTLY....and in the first 4 games he was completely ineffective and had 1 sack and only 5 tackles. By Week 5, if you remember, they cut his snaps in half(from about 60, down to 28) and this was because he was playing like crap. At the pressy, Oneill tried to tell us it was to keep him rested, but that was a pile of crap and everyone knew it. The real reason was because Armonty was putting up better pass rushing #'s and they decided to give HIM the pass rush reps, instead of Kruger. In our system, one OLB rushes and the Will covers. All our OLBs are really rush guys, so while Kruger rushed, Armonty or Mingo had to cover. And the numbers showed that Armonty was more effective rushing....so they took the snaps from Kruger and gave them to Armonty(and now, Orchard too) Leaving Kruger to play the run and, occassionally cover. THIS pissed him off and he started complaining that they weren't using him "correctly"....when in truth, they just werent using him AS MUCH. His rush vs cover stats are exactly the same as last year, so he's not REALLY covering more. So.....Armonty gets to the QB TWICE as often as Kruger.....and Armonty, Orchard AND Mingo ALL cover better....and all play the run better(ie, make tackles).....So, in reality, the only thing Kruger has to offer is pass rushing and Armonty has beaten him out at that role.... Watch him play. He gets blocked out every single play ...being the designated pass rusher is a one on one battle....Kruger against a T.....edge rusher simply has to beat his man and get to the QB.....and thats not "scheme"....thats just one man being cut loose to get to the QB.....and he aint getting it done.... Stas wise...he's one of the worst tacklers in the league.....he is THE worst cover LB in the league.....and painfully average at rushing......and the coaches see this and have adjusted the LB roles to try to get better production.... and THAT is why Kruger now plays 30 snaps instead of 70....and why Orchard and Armonty have doubled their snaps.... And since Kruger aint playing as much, he's mad and pointing fingers....but that wasnt happening until he got pulled.....and that wasnt happening last year when he had better numbers..... Now, you tell me how a starting NFL LB averages barely over one tackle a game and keeps his job?......and how Pettine(or Oneill) are responsible for his inability to get around the edge(or seal the edge, ftm)...or how the Coaches make him miss more tackles than just about every other LB in the league(he is #2 in the NFL for OLB missed tackles).....or why Armonty can get to the QB once every 40 rushes, while Kruger gets there once every 125 rushes????...(same coaches, same system)... Every linebacker on the Browns....every single one(in or out) averages at least one tackle every 20 plays or less...Orchard 1-15, Dansby 1-10, Kirksey 1-14, Bryant 1-20.....Kruger 1 every 44....thats right, 1 tackle every 44 plays.....the next worst Brown(at ANY position) is one every 23 plays....(and the good ones are at 1-10..hitner, Dansby1-10, even Carder at 1-12)...... So Kruger is TWICE as bad as our next worst....and 3 to 4 times as bad as the team average..... So....there it is.....the other LB's are simply better.....he's losing his job to Armonty....and, if you look at his numbers, it's very clear that he isnt getting it done anywhere.....effective run stopper? NO.......effective in pass coverage? NO.....effectlive edge rusher? NO... And if he's not proficient at any of the 3 tools that a LB should have....what do we do with him?.....and if the ONLY thing he does is rush, then the other team pretty much knows what he's gonna do and will(does) stop him every time..... Coaches have no hand in his poor play....it's all on him and he's too weak to even admit it......and if HE cant admit he's playing poorly and lays all the blame on others, then he will NOT get better..... The numbers dont lie....and are a glaring indictment of his poor play.....period....... Well then it is on coaching.. then Amonty should be starting in his spot if thats the case... Apparently... Our coaches are too stupid... 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Mudfly Posted November 21, 2015 Report Share Posted November 21, 2015 Like I said....Armonty and Orchard are getting double the snaps they were getting before.....the team HAS to mix up the looks and coverages to be effective......that means rushing from different angles and with different players(and looks),,,,,otherwise we are predictable and easier to beat.... So, Kruger still gets some reps....as do Armonty and Orchard....they are trying to find the best combo and best players....thats all they can do..... Id say you are just convinced it's all on the coaches and really not interested in looking at the facts...numbers....or players..... We only have 4 olbs.....so they ALL have to play....thats just the way it is.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoorta Posted November 21, 2015 Report Share Posted November 21, 2015 So only highly drafted guys can become bellcow backs? Got it. This is sort of a Ghoolie mindset- you can find quality OL in the parking lot before a game. Ditto that with RB. True enough, you can find quality running backs later- but the really good ones, that are more than one year sensations, are usually found in the first three rounds. In fairness to him......he hired 11 guys in 13 days.....and had, basically, a pile of recently fired crap to pick them from..... Imagine taking over a company and having only 2 weeks to assemble your whole staff....and you can only pick from the unemployment line...... How good is that staff gonna be?.....And how long do they get to perform, before you start replacing them?..... I will say I didnt hear one single peep about the coaches or staff until a few weeks ago....If they are SO terrible and it's so obvious to everyone now, why was no one talking about this before?... .. A few months ago, we all loved these guys.....and suddenly....."everyone" says they are all bad......sounds like mob mentality to me An experienced OC or DC would have helped, but there was none available. :/ RE: Wilbert: I didn't know anything about Turbin, we picked him up and I didn't get a chance to work with him, so therefore it was new to me to putting him in there. We talk about his problems, because he carried the ball low. When you carry the ball low, you're going to have that fumbling problem.'' Does that sound competent to you? Like I said....Armonty and Orchard are getting double the snaps they were getting before.....the team HAS to mix up the looks and coverages to be effective......that means rushing from different angles and with different players(and looks),,,,,otherwise we are predictable and easier to beat.... So, Kruger still gets some reps....as do Armonty and Orchard....they are trying to find the best combo and best players....thats all they can do..... Id say you are just convinced it's all on the coaches and really not interested in looking at the facts...numbers....or players..... We only have 4 olbs.....so they ALL have to play....thats just the way it is.... Great analysis on Kruger Mud. Now would some cap guru explain to me what the cap hit is going to be next year if we cut him? Because he sure as hell isn't worth $7 million. Picking him up can't be blamed on Farmer either. http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cleveland-browns/paul-kruger/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wargograw Posted November 22, 2015 Report Share Posted November 22, 2015 Zeke's much better than Henry. Henry will be average in the NFL unless he becomes a whole new man like Le'veon Bell did (no I'm not trolling you steeler fans). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted November 22, 2015 Report Share Posted November 22, 2015 Great analysis on Kruger Mud. Now would some cap guru explain to me what the cap hit is going to be next year if we cut him? Because he sure as hell isn't worth $7 million. Picking him up can't be blamed on Farmer either. http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cleveland-browns/paul-kruger/ Even scarier.....he is the 4th highest paid OLB in the league..... http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/rankings/cap-hit/outside-linebacker/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickers Posted November 22, 2015 Report Share Posted November 22, 2015 Like I said....Armonty and Orchard are getting double the snaps they were getting before.....the team HAS to mix up the looks and coverages to be effective......that means rushing from different angles and with different players(and looks),,,,,otherwise we are predictable and easier to beat.... So, Kruger still gets some reps....as do Armonty and Orchard....they are trying to find the best combo and best players....thats all they can do..... Id say you are just convinced it's all on the coaches and really not interested in looking at the facts...numbers....or players..... We only have 4 olbs.....so they ALL have to play....thats just the way it is.... And the lack of safety blitzes are all a concern.. Safeties are usually , if not the fastest guys on defense.. WTF are Pet and comp. thinking? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flugel Posted November 22, 2015 Report Share Posted November 22, 2015 I would prefer Henry. The guy is a horse. Should one argue with Logic? Prolly not a good idea but in spite of Zeke's ill-advised post game comments - I still think he would be a terrific fit for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vagitron Posted November 23, 2015 Report Share Posted November 23, 2015 Should one argue with Logic? Prolly not a good idea but in spite of Zeke's ill-advised post game comments - I still think he would be a terrific fit for us. Why does it seem like everyone is making a big deal out of his comments? Meyer called a terrible second half. Elliot had two carries and they lost to a rival while undefeated. I'm assuming the loss all but kills their championship chances unless Michigan beats Michigan state. He's interviewed right after that loss and he's emotional. I wouldn't have said it but I think his emotions are allowed to run high considering the loss. I don't think it will effect his draft stock at all unless he bombs combine interviews. Is he supposed to be a top 5 talent this year tho? The Browns should pick in the top 5 and I'd say teams have wised up on spending high picks on non-generational talent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyingfooldoug Posted November 23, 2015 Report Share Posted November 23, 2015 Why does it seem like everyone is making a big deal out of his comments? Meyer called a terrible second half. Elliot had two carries and they lost to a rival while undefeated. I'm assuming the loss all but kills their championship chances unless Michigan beats Michigan state. He's interviewed right after that loss and he's emotional. I wouldn't have said it but I think his emotions are allowed to run high considering the loss. I don't think it will effect his draft stock at all unless he bombs combine interviews. Is he supposed to be a top 5 talent this year tho? The Browns should pick in the top 5 and I'd say teams have wised up on spending high picks on non-generational talent. Ya, but what if M and MSU have already played?......moron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Couch Pulls Out Posted November 23, 2015 Report Share Posted November 23, 2015 In fairness to him......he hired 11 guys in 13 days.....and had, basically, a pile of recently fired crap to pick them from..... Imagine taking over a company and having only 2 weeks to assemble your whole staff....and you can only pick from the unemployment line...... How good is that staff gonna be?.....And how long do they get to perform, before you start replacing them?..... I will say I didnt hear one single peep about the coaches or staff until a few weeks ago....If they are SO terrible and it's so obvious to everyone now, why was no one talking about this before?... .. A few months ago, we all loved these guys.....and suddenly....."everyone" says they are all bad......sounds like mob mentality to me Because a few months ago, we didn't have the proof that we have now. A few months ago, there was optimism that last year was a foundational year and that this year would give us a much improved product. It sounds like people making reasonable conclusions based upon the new data in front of them to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vagitron Posted November 23, 2015 Report Share Posted November 23, 2015 Ya, but what if M and MSU have already played?......moron I responded to this and I was mean. It was deleted. I meant Penn state but said Michigan because of the upcoming Ohio state Michigan game. I'm not sure who you think you are dougie but I only have it out with a few people here, let's call it history. Save your "moron" bs for people that care to mix it up with you and your mouth foaming. Return to the shadows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaconHound Posted November 24, 2015 Report Share Posted November 24, 2015 Montgomery doesn't inspire me very much Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyingfooldoug Posted November 24, 2015 Report Share Posted November 24, 2015 I responded to this and I was mean. It was deleted. I meant Penn state but said Michigan because of the upcoming Ohio state Michigan game. I'm not sure who you think you are dougie but I only have it out with a few people here, let's call it history. Save your "moron" bs for people that care to mix it up with you and your mouth foaming. Return to the shadows. Stay in stoolville moron and you won't have those issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vagitron Posted November 24, 2015 Report Share Posted November 24, 2015 Stay in stoolville moron and you won't have those issues. I live in Columbus now. I probably have more family ties to the buckeyes than you do. Half my fiance's family went there, currently have a cousin and a brother in law there as well. (I'm not a Ohio state fan) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted November 24, 2015 Report Share Posted November 24, 2015 I live in Columbus now. I probably have more family ties to the buckeyes than you do. Half my fiance's family went there, currently have a cousin and a brother in law there as well. (I'm not a Ohio state fan) What "major college" do you root for? (I don't know why I am asking a guy who will only be here for 5 more days such things.) Oh well.....get it all ouchya system now while you can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vagitron Posted November 24, 2015 Report Share Posted November 24, 2015 What "major college" do you root for? (I don't know why I am asking a guy who will only be here for 5 more days such things.) Oh well.....get it all ouchya system now while you can. I don't really. Pitt/penn state but lately I've been watching a good amount of Ohio state because they are such a big deal with my fiance's family. I've never been big on college football but took my guard down a little with Ohio state because my cousin is there. I get really into the nfl draft process but that's about as college as I get with football. You will never catch me wearing Ohio state gear but my son has some. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flugel Posted November 26, 2015 Report Share Posted November 26, 2015 Why does it seem like everyone is making a big deal out of his comments? Meyer called a terrible second half. Elliot had two carries and they lost to a rival while undefeated. I'm assuming the loss all but kills their championship chances unless Michigan beats Michigan state. He's interviewed right after that loss and he's emotional. I wouldn't have said it but I think his emotions are allowed to run high considering the loss. I don't think it will effect his draft stock at all unless he bombs combine interviews. Is he supposed to be a top 5 talent this year tho? The Browns should pick in the top 5 and I'd say teams have wised up on spending high picks on non-generational talent. Considering how often Urban Meyer has praised the kid as the ultimate, unselfish team player - it was like he bit off the hand feeding him. Was it an accurate reflection of Zeke? I doubt it but unfortunately most people outside of Ohio will remember him more for those comments than him looking like the best RB in the country for the last 2 seasons. You brought up a good point about the emotions being high immediately after a loss in an important game. I'd draft him in the top 5. He's still my favorite prospect from Ohio State. When he broke all those long runs for TDs vrs Bama and Oregon in the playoffs last year - the momentum swing was like a tidal wave. I'd love me some of that in Cleveland. While I'm at it, I'd also welcome somebody that hates to lose as much as him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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