Draft thread

[Clevfan4life]

Bosa worth a top five?

 

if he was "just" a pass rusher, I dunno maybe...but the fact he's a 5 tool lineman...yes. He's one of the best run stoppers in all of college football. He beats a lot of top level linebackers in tackle for loss stats. You can see why when you watch him, his fundamentals are pristine. He reads the play than reacts. Watched tape of him reacting to the read option "perfectly"....there's top level NFL lineman that don't have his technique. There's a very good chance he goes first in the draft because of this

[Clevfan4life]

and he's strong as shit, which allows him to hold off OL at the point while he reads the play. Than effortlessly disengages. I know people have been saying he's been playing low level talent this year, but he was holding off MI ST's OL just the same as he always does, and they were a top 3 OL if I correctly remember what the commentators said during the game.

[Tour2ma]

Cleve...

 

Please let me know what 2015 game I need to watch to see what you are saying.

 

http://draftbreakdown.com/players/joey-bosa/

[Flugel]

and he's strong as shit, which allows him to hold off OL at the point while he reads the play. Than effortlessly disengages. I know people have been saying he's been playing low level talent this year, but he was holding off MI ST's OL just the same as he always does, and they were a top 3 OL if I correctly remember what the commentators said during the game.

 

Michigan State hasn't exactly experienced Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome about this effortlessly disengaging you describe since they really needed 1 blocker all 2nd half they ran right at Bosa for game tying/go ahead points.They even missed a FG in another drive it worked well. The biggest play Bosa had an impact on was when he kicked inside to face a cup protection where there is usually 1 double team closest to the snap so he drew it. #6 lined up in Bosa's DE spot and made a huge play for the Ohio State defense.

 

If people think he's the next JJ Watt or Reggie White, they need to use a better measuring stick than Illinois. JJ dominated Ohio State and moved around to show he could whip their All Conference Center or line up outside and win. Neither White or Watt needed excuses and explanations at the NFL level when they got doubled/chipped all the time plus swatting away little RBs that seem to give Bosa much needed alibis. Reggie White set a sack record with that kind of attention all the time. Watt has looked just as impressive.

 

Sparty started the day ready to chip w/ a TE and keep a RB in until they realized it wasn't necessary. They adjusted their amount of attention to Bosa. Consequently, all the guys around Bosa weren't getting off their blockers any better than he was in the 2nd half when MSU ran the ball off tackle right where Bosa was lining up. This put stopping the run squarely was in the hands of the OSU secondary or occasionally Bosa some 10-15 yards downfield. Not that much different than what we want to upgrade in Cleveland except the heavy winds and hard rain made passing a bad idea for both teams last Saturday (especially the team rotating their 2nd and 3rd string QB). If our biggest problem in Cleveland is stopping the off tackle runs that have consistently gashed us - let's be honest what we saw from Bosa in the closest matchup he's seen to an NFL caliber challenge as our alleged easy solution. Seems to me, that would have been a perfect game for Bosa to deliver the STFU performance to anyone questioning why he's being mentioned as a top 5 gotta have pick.

 

Hoorta brought up Big Daddy Wilkinson in one of our countless Bosa threads. One team thought he was an immediate answer to all their problems early in a draft. He wasn't immediate but became a good DT that had a decent length career starting. Sometimes guys like Tony Mandarach and Robert Gallery get hyper-inflated up the draft charts and become a disappointing outcome to an unreasonably high early expectation. Then when you look back on their careers, they settled in to become reliable starters for playoff teams at a different positions than they were drafted to play. More specifically, the biggest thing wrong was where they were drafted prompting unreasonable expectations like Big Daddy ran into. Bosa has the fitness for the right coaching staff to tap and develop; but getting drafted in the top 5 hardly ever guarantees the right coaching staff.

[TexasAg1969]

So in other words Flugel, he's a sure take for the hapless Browns FO.

[Flugel]

So in other words Flugel, he's a sure take for the hapless Browns FO.

 

Precisely.

[Clevfan4life]

Uh Flugel they most certainly did not run right at him all night. And they most certainly put more than one blocker on him. And give that entire defense some credit, the offense was going 3's and out all night long....by 4th quarter some runs were starting to spring a bit yes, but that was a great defensive game for the most part by the Bucks.

[Clevfan4life]

And what game were you watching? Bosa was around the ball all game. They did not shut that dude down at all, and you could see they clearly gameplanned specifically for him. So for one guy to sometimes see 3 guys on him, and still impact plays on a down to down basis.....I saw nothing that said hey maybe this guy isn't top 5 material. If anything it proved he was if what the commentators said about the MI St O line was true.

[CaineDeSoulis]

bosa has looked okay all year but nothing that screams top 5 pick to me

[thenew23]

Bosa is a solid player, but this year I haven't seen max effort. In the Indiana game, he slept walked the entire 1st half, but when it was close at the end he turned it on and was very disruptive.

 

When he is giving it 100%, he's scary good, but I didnt see him doing that early this season. His tape will show a solid Dlineman most the time with a nasty streak, particularly in the most clutch times...

 

Top 5?...

 

This year probably because I'm not sure this is a very good draft, especially at the top... He is certainly the best looking rush defender of all the D-lineman I've seen...

[The Gipper]

Here is one view... I am basing this on the fact that it should be clear that the Browns will be drafting in the Top 10 picks of each round:

 

First round:

Bosa, DE OSU......considered top player....if we get top pick

 

Treadwell WR Ole Miss. Considered best WR on the board. Take him if Browns are lower in the top ten

 

Second Round:

Derrick Henry RB Alabama......he is projected at top of round 2.....and hope he is not TR reborn.

(I assume Zeke Elliot will not drop into 2d round)

 

Josh Doctson WR TCU....if you don't get the WR in the first round.

 

Third round:

Carson Wentz QB North Dakota. a sort of BR clone: 6'5" 235 pounds.....

 

Joshua Perry OLB Ohio St.

 

or.....Cardale Jones QB Ohio St.....if he falls

 

Fourth round:

Braxton Miller WR Ohio St.......he has the speed.....

 

Deon Bush Safety Miami Fla. 6'1 210......has size and some speed

 

Maybe it is familiarity that has me listing Buckeyes.....but are considered to have the team with the best talent in the country.

[The Gipper]

Here is who Walter Football has the Browns taking......and they give them the #1 overall pick:

 

image: http://walterfootball.com/images/fball/brownsb_logo.gif

Cleveland Browns: Paxton Lynch, QB, Memphis

image: http://walterfootball.com/college/Memphis_logo.gif

The Browns weren't in position to draft a quarterback in a previous mock, but they are now - and it definitely helps that there currently appear to be three top-10 signal-caller prospects again in the wake of Paxton Lynch's amazing season.

We haven't spoken to our NFL sources about Lynch yet, but unless he struggles to close out the year, I have to believe that he'll grade out as a top-10 prospect, and perhaps the top quarterback in the class. Even if he doesn't, teams get desperate and reach for players at his position. The Browns obviously need a signal-caller, as Johnny Manziel is an idiot who has no future (or present) in the NFL. Whatever hope Cleveland had for Manziel is now gone, as he won't stop his partying ways. Perhaps he can fool everyone again with another PR-move trip to rehab, but it's likely that he's done with the Browns.
Read more at http://walterfootball.com/draft2016.php#XqrLZbXd6ZwtEsmr.99

[The Gipper]

I didn't see this before I made my picks for round 2....but Walter agrees with me:

 

image: http://walterfootball.com/images/fball/brownsb_logo.gif

Cleveland Browns: Josh Doctson, WR, TCU

image: http://walterfootball.com/college/TCU_logo.gif

The Browns have to use an early-round pick on a receiver eventually, right? They can't keep going with retreads.

Pick change; previously Michael Thomas,
Read more at http://walterfootball.com/draft2016_2.php#mTgWCD9lI4SezOHh.99

[The Gipper]

Their 3rd round pick for the Browns:

 

Cleveland Browns: Jordan Jenkins, DE/OLB, Georgia
It wouldn't hurt if the Browns added another pass-rusher, given that their edge players all are having issues getting to the quarterback this season.

 

I know nothing about him really.

[Clevfan4life]

... He is certainly the best looking rush defender of all the D-lineman I've seen...

 

i'm not sure i'd want him so high if all he did was rush well. There's other good pure pass rushers in this draft. I want him cause "our" defense needs him like nothing else. We need run stopping edges. It's almost a bonus how good his pass rushing is. Srsly, we need to invest in a front 4 that actively engages in the run game.

 

I've kind of come around on run stopping theory. I always adhered to the D lineman holding up the O lineman so the LB'ers can make the tackle. But i'm seeing even 4-3 Defense's like Carolina and Buffalo just coaching up their edges better and these guys are really making active plays on the ball carrier, not just funneling him towards the ILB"ers. I know most of you have noticed, but our edges suck ass at that. Kruger can't disengage from a TE, and i'm not talking about some extra O lineman coming in and playing TE for a snap or two. I'm talking bonafide receiving TE's have their way with him routinely. I want him gone. I want Bosa and Monty as our edges next year.

[Clevfan4life]

bosa has looked okay all year but nothing that screams top 5 pick to me

 

go back a couple years. He's protecting his top 5 pick status. Explodes when he needs to. He could have padded his career stats against the JV teams OH was playing earlier but he didn't.

 

[The Gipper]

Here are some notes about where some publications have Bosa and Lynch ranked:

 

CBSports; Bosa #1, Lynch #4

 

Draftek: Bosa #1, Lynch #52 (Goff, Cook, Jone ahead)

 

Sports Ilustrated: Bosa #1, Lynch N/A (believe this was preseason ranking)

 

SB Nation: Bosa #1, Lynch, not top 50 (again, preseason)

 

ESPN: Rankings by position, not overall, Bosa and Lynch both #1 at position

 

Washington Post: Laremy Tunsil OT Ole Miss #1 Bosa #2, Lynch #8

[Flugel]

Uh Flugel they most certainly did not run right at him all night. And they most certainly put more than one blocker on him. And give that entire defense some credit, the offense was going 3's and out all night long....by 4th quarter some runs were starting to spring a bit yes, but that was a great defensive game for the most part by the Bucks.

 

I specified the 2nd half when they chose to run at him with success. And no they didn't put more than 1 blocker on him in that 2nd half. They adjusted to shed light on how the LBer was just as sealed as Bosa was getting. I saw the entire game plus the replays, which means I saw everything more than once while you're claiming double and tripled teams all second half? Let me guess, you missed all 3 offsides penalties he had as well right?

 

There's people that watch games with a lot of people and see 1 play, leave the room, grab some chow, drop a plop, socialize and return to see another play as if they could summarize the entire game inclusive all the adjustments taking place as it unfolds. It sounds like you were really distracted if you didn't see any of Michigan State's last 2 scoring drives plus the FG attempt they also missed.

[Tour2ma]

Bosa is a solid player, but this year I haven't seen max effort. In the Indiana game, he slept walked the entire 1st half, but when it was close at the end he turned it on and was very disruptive.

Thanks for this.... just prior to the post when I asked Cleve for a game to watch, I watched the first half of the IN game. After seeing only two decent contributions in that half, I gave up. ANd for each of those efforts, there were at least three plays where Bosa was handle by a TE.

 

I'll go back and watch the second half.

 

 

Again Cleve, if you have other games I need to look at, please let me know.

[Flugel]

Thanks for this.... just prior to the post when I asked Cleve for a game to watch, I watched the first half of the IN game. After seeing only two decent contributions in that half, I gave up. ANd for each of those efforts, there were at least three plays where Bosa was handle by a TE.

 

I'll go back and watch the second half.

 

 

Again Cleve, if you have other games I need to look at, please let me know.

 

This is what I posted the day after in the "2016 DRAFT who's your boy?" thread when Clev thought he saw Bosa getting off blocks and stopping everything that came his way while your reply to me gave me the impression we saw the same game. The irony is MSU also had a play where the TE down blocked him and drove him halfway to Cincy by himself free of charge:

 

Come on with this stuff. This guy could take a smelly shit right now and I'd be hearing it smells like the top selling cologne. Games aren't played on paper especially when it's windy and raining.The biggest effect Bosa had all day was when they kicked him inside to line up against a cup protection for Michigan State's 2nd or 3rd string QB (they rotated the 2). I know this is hard to believe but cup protections often require a double team somewhere inside closer to where the ball is snapped. Consequently, Bosa drew it and the guy (#6) who lined up outside at Bosa's normal spot made a big play getting to the QB. As the game unfolded, Sparty realized they were a lot better than Illinois so they decided to adjust how many guys they needed to waste on Bosa to the extent LBers were getting more attention. And it worked regardless of the Dial-A-QB situation MSU had to overcome.

 

Bosa had 3 offsides penalties and 1 was brutal enough to change 3rd and 8 to a very doable 3rd and 3. In Sparty's second half scoring drives, they ran right where Bosa lined up. 1 time, a very skinny #83 was isolated on Bosa driving him from the right side of the television screen all the way to the left of the screen until he was off the screen altogether. They also showed the replay just so I could confirm only 1 guy was doing that. When such a luxury was taking place, someone else playside was able to block the OSU LBer. Some of you guys are acting like Bosa is the only DE you've ever seen necessitating an occasional chip from the TE. And when you see a RB in to help out - it's the first time you've ever seen that too?

 

FWIW, when Reggie White was leading the NFL in sacks and frequenting Pro Bowls - there were always TEs chipping with a RB in the backfield helping out. If they were indeed tripling/quadrupling Bosa eating up blockers like Pez - why was the LBer help nowhere to be found late in the game? Maybe, just maybe, they weren't using all their blockers on Bosa? I think the kid is talented and he can get up under guys to remove their entire base to win position and leverage; but first overall picks are supposed to be football messiahs in terms of impact. Yesterday was an ideal stage in the rain to prove he's that guy and all I'm gonna hear is a bunch of excuses and explanations of why he was not that guy. When his neighborhood got picked on - why were all his neighbors getting blocked? Sparty figured something out; and the minute they did - they owned the day.

 

FWIW, backside clampdowns got Courtney Brown drafted first overall because he had an adorable tackles for loss resume to go with a Mike Mamula-esque workout summed up as "gonna hurt people." Here's the thing, the Michigan matchup vrs Penn State back in 99 said don't feed the back side clamp down - just run right AT him. They did with a long sustained scoring drives that beat Penn State. They also learned they didn't even have to double Courtney Brown in the process, which was exactly how NFL life ahead became. The pertinence of that is where did Michigan State run when they needed to knot the score and get into FG position twice? Right AT Bosa and he played exactly like a Brown. When he did make tackles late in the game - they were about 10 yards downfield.

 

I know everybody loves Ohio State; but I'm not seeing the next Reggie White or JJ Watt. JJ Watt single-handedly closed down Ohio State ranging from whipping an All Conference Center's ass to kicking tail on the edge. He owned the day and the stage against the best opponent on his schedule. There were no "yeah, but they double teamed him" excuses required. He dominated the best offensive line in the conference. The weather dictated that the best trench warriors would own the day and you saw the outcome. Get the meaningless Illinois matchup out of your head because that wasn't an NFL measuring stick like yesterday was.

 

I LIKE Bosa so I don't want to see him setup to be somebody's major disappointment, which could easily happen if he went to a clusterphuck like Cleveland. Our 5 techniques never need to be doubled or quickly chipped and they still don't get the LBer help Ohio State usually offers Bosa (outside of yesterday). As Hoorta said elsewhere, Big Daddy Wilkinson once got played up as a sure thing ready to dominate at the NFL level and it never happened. He did actually have a decent career but because of how high he got drafted - many labelled him a bad pick when he wasn't. He just didn't dominate like his draft slot required him to. I've been wrong before so it's possible I'm wrong again but let's not pretend yesterday was exactly what you wanted to see from Bosa. I tooted Elliott as my guy and I'm disappointed in the way he played and conducted himself afterward.

[tiamat63]

And what game were you watching? Bosa was around the ball all game. They did not shut that dude down at all, and you could see they clearly gameplanned specifically for him. So for one guy to sometimes see 3 guys on him, and still impact plays on a down to down basis.....I saw nothing that said hey maybe this guy isn't top 5 material. If anything it proved he was if what the commentators said about the MI St O line was true.

 

For the most part, both the assessments of players from Tour and myself have been similar. Obviously we have our disagreements on Joey.

 

However because of the respect I have for him and Flugs, it deserves a lot more than 'bruh, what are YOU watching' to form an argument with them.

[hoorta]

This is a tricky one. Until yesterday I was assuming we'd get a chance to see Manziel make a case to be the QB of the future. The party-vid/demotion has convoluted everything. Will Johnny regain trust with enough games left to display what he's capable of?

 

Maybe JFF's demotion is a wake-up call that will last a week or two, maybe it means the FO will go into the off season as if they don't have their QB.

 

I've started looking at tape of the QB prospects, and will form an opinion in the upcoming weeks. Ideally, Manziel will still be able to find his way onto the field and put together an impressive body of work in the remainder of the season. Having an answer at the QB position would allow us to target a beastly defender like Bosa, Nkemdiche, Hargreaves or Smith.

 

The events of the past week made it abundantly clear the Browns don't trust Manziel- at all. They thought they could control his off field antics- but it's probably too late in the game, and would take too much time to get that situation rectified. I'll put the odds at 70% Johnny Juicer is gone after the season. The NFL could actually do the Browns a favor if they suspended him for a year. It would painlessly give the Browns a chance to see if he's rehabbed for good. BTW, whoever mentioned Connor Shaw has a point.

 

Now regarding the WR conundrum- I sure hope & pray Josh Gordon can keep his act together. I've seen a qb as great as Aaron Rodgers come back to earth if he doesn't have anyone to throw to. OTOH, Megatron made Matt Stafford look mighty good on Turkey Day.

 

Are you listening Mr. Farmer? No more Maybe Mayles in the fourth round please.

 

I would draft 3 centers again, Draft all OL. That has really worked well so far.

 

Of course Tom. We have two first round and two second round guys on that o-line, (and another first rounder on the bench) it's not working, so we need to draft a couple more.

 

Bosa worth a top five?

 

Not sure. I think Zeke Elliot is a more sure thing than Bosa. Unless you think he's another Adrian Peterson, you don't draft him in the top 10. And the Browns WILL draft in the top 10.

[Clevfan4life]

So I just watched JJ Watts highlight from the OH St game, and it's impressive although Wisconsin in general beat the crap out of OH St. But what I said about Bosa's game vs Watts game "at this stage in their career holds'. Watt was uphill all game. Let a lot of runs go up inside of him cause he was doing what he did best, swim upfield and try to make the play high. His technique just isn't as good as Bosa's at that point. Bosa is way more fundamentally sound. Watt was a much purer pass rusher although his run stopping stats weren't bad. But when OSU ran right at him they handled him. Bosa holds up at the point better, i'm sorry that's just what I see when I watch both their tapes....although I've only watched the one game against OSU from Watt.

 

I don't want Bosa on the Browns cause he's a Buckeye, I don't give a fuck if he was a Wolverine. He just has fundamentals that if he keeps getting coached up he's going to be one of the greats. I don't know what you guys watched during the MSU game but I'm very sure I would have noticed a WR taking Bosa where he didn't want to go. I think one of the first plays of the game was a running play away from Bosa where he popped the tackle up, read the play and slid to his right and made the tackle on the other side of the line for maybe 1 yd gain if that.

 

The kids tackle stats speak for themselves. Are there other defensive players the Browns would do well to pick up? Of course, he's not the only guy for the Browns. But we'd be stupid to not take him if he's there when we pick. I like a WR like everybody else, I was honking on Watkins the other year, but our offense wasn't the biggest problem on this team by far. Taking a 3rd round DE/OLB isn't going to do shit for this defense.

[Flugel]

 

For the most part, both the assessments of players from Tour and myself have been similar. Obviously we have our disagreements on Joey.

 

However because of the respect I have for him and Flugs, it deserves a lot more than 'bruh, what are YOU watching' to form an argument with them.

 

Thanks Tiam - backatchya!

[Tour2ma]

This is what I posted the day after in the "2016 DRAFT who's your boy?"...

I did see and read the post before.

 

For the most part, both the assessments of players from Tour and myself have been similar. Obviously we have our disagreements on Joey.

 

However because of the respect I have for him and Flugs, it deserves a lot more than 'bruh, what are YOU watching' to form an argument with them.

Thanks... In my case, and I suspect Flug's as well, it is not like the memory of a dominant Bosa is not there. It is just that there is no recent memory of that player. That is why I am asking for a game to look at.

[Flugel]

So I just watched JJ Watts highlight from the OH St game, and it's impressive although Wisconsin in general beat the crap out of OH St. But what I said about Bosa's game vs Watts game "at this stage in their career holds'. Watt was uphill all game. Let a lot of runs go up inside of him cause he was doing what he did best, swim upfield and try to make the play high. His technique just isn't as good as Bosa's at that point. Bosa is way more fundamentally sound. Watt was a much purer pass rusher although his run stopping stats weren't bad. But when OSU ran right at him they handled him. Bosa holds up at the point better, i'm sorry that's just what I see when I watch both their tapes....although I've only watched the one game against OSU from Watt.

 

I don't want Bosa on the Browns cause he's a Buckeye, I don't give a fuck if he was a Wolverine. He just has fundamentals that if he keeps getting coached up he's going to be one of the greats. I don't know what you guys watched during the MSU game but I'm very sure I would have noticed a WR taking Bosa where he didn't want to go. I think one of the first plays of the game was a running play away from Bosa where he popped the tackle up, read the play and slid to his right and made the tackle on the other side of the line for maybe 1 yd gain if that.

 

The kids tackle stats speak for themselves. Are there other defensive players the Browns would do well to pick up? Of course, he's not the only guy for the Browns. But we'd be stupid to not take him if he's there when we pick. I like a WR like everybody else, I was honking on Watkins the other year, but our offense wasn't the biggest problem on this team by far. Taking a 3rd round DE/OLB isn't going to do shit for this defense.

 

Valid points/good observations but try to read what people are saying to you about the Michigan State game and others Clev. Nobody thinks there's a talent issue with Bosa. Having said that, Gipper is showing where he is projected to be drafted by many sources so the ideal time for Bosa to validate the hype should have been the closest matchup he had to the type of talent he'll see on Sundays (Michigan State). What should have made his job even easier was the reality it was a terrible day to throw the football weather-wise on top of knowing how deep into the depth chart Sparty was going at the QB position. FWIW, #83 wasn't a WR isolated on him, he was a TE blocking down on Bosa giving the tackle the responsibility of sealing off the LBer, which he did. I'm thinking it was a fold block where 83 led and the tackle crossed behind him to seal off the first guy in the next tier (LB) but 83 stole 100% my attention. Doesn't matter they got A+ on the execution.

 

Many of us would rather be high 5ing you about Bosa than pointing out things they want you to see. Let's hope he has a huge day against Michigan! Last year against Penn State, Bosa came up huge when his team needed him most or there would have never been a National Championship Game to celebrate. That's the guy I want to see and set my expectations on.

[Clevfan4life]

ah ok it was TE, nm then. My brain went on autopilot when I saw that number and was like no fucking way a wr handled Bosa. I guess I need to see a replay of the MSU game to see what you guys are talking about. I mostly watch the line when I watch OSU games and while I didn't see Bosa having a career day, I thought I was seing the usual #97 chasing the ballcarrier from the opposite side of the field...and still often making the tackle or being in on it.

 

I see your point about it being the MSU game why not sell out, but what it would it do for him if he had a great game right up until the time he got a draft lowering injury? The NFL wouldn't care in the slightest what he did the prior years, nobody would be taking him in the 1st round and it would cost him millions. I don't necessarily like that, but I understand. He's been coasting all season. He played his ass off last year and he got his championship. I'm frankly not expecting much from him for the Michigan game. OSU is done playing for the championship and likely won't make it to the Rose Bowl either, so it's focus on keeping healthy for the MI game and whatever dumb bowl the end up playing for than it's off to the NFL.

 

Would you do any different if millions were at stake?

[Flugel]

ah ok it was TE, nm then. My brain went on autopilot when I saw that number and was like no fucking way a wr handled Bosa. I guess I need to see a replay of the MSU game to see what you guys are talking about. I mostly watch the line when I watch OSU games and while I didn't see Bosa having a career day, I thought I was seing the usual #97 chasing the ballcarrier from the opposite side of the field...and still often making the tackle or being in on it.

 

I see your point about it being the MSU game why not sell out, but what it would it do for him if he had a great game right up until the time he got a draft lowering injury? The NFL wouldn't care in the slightest what he did the prior years, nobody would be taking him in the 1st round and it would cost him millions. I don't necessarily like that, but I understand. He's been coasting all season. He played his ass off last year and he got his championship. I'm frankly not expecting much from him for the Michigan game. OSU is done playing for the championship and likely won't make it to the Rose Bowl either, so it's focus on keeping healthy for the MI game and whatever dumb bowl the end up playing for than it's off to the NFL.

 

Would you do any different if millions were at stake?

 

Michigan State is really well coached. They make some really good game day adjustments. If you rewatch the game, watch the second half.

 

IMO, the dynamic player that separated Ohio State from their 2 post season opponents last year was Zeke Elliott. His long runs for TDs were game changers and I would love to see him giving Cleveland the ability/luxury of scoring from anywhere on the field. Can imagine a 1-2 punch of Zeke and Duke?

[Richiswhere]

Michigan State is really well coached. They make some really good game day adjustments. If you rewatch the game, watch the second half.

 

IMO, the dynamic player that separated Ohio State from their 2 post season opponents last year was Zeke Elliott. His long runs for TDs were game changers and I would love to see him giving Cleveland the ability/luxury of scoring from anywhere on the field. Can imagine a 1-2 punch of Zeke and Duke?

Spot on here...not only was he the man that carried the team last year once Cardale (I can't hit a receiver in stride) Jones had to start. He pretty much carried the team this whole damn year with his 2nd half running and your only going to give him the ball twice in the 2nd half against MSU.

[Clevfan4life]

Can imagine a 1-2 punch of Zeke and Duke?

 

Oh I love zeke, he's another 5 tool guy. Imo he's a way better prospect than Henry. "IF" we could somehow get Dallas to take johnny off our hands for their #1, maybe throw in some other player, I would love to see us take Bosa and Zeke. I know that looks like some major OSU homer pie on the surface, but I'd want those two guys no matter where they played.