The Cysko Kid Posted December 8, 2015 Report Share Posted December 8, 2015 I was talking more about when on the street. You break in to someone's house, you get shot, you can't complain much. A man's home is his castle and all that. Walking down the street in a dodgy neighbourhood, less call for that. but I thought we're only liscensed for one low capacity firearm in your scenario You would have a licence for a single firearm - if you have a concealed carry licence, are you allowed to carry as many as you want around? :Sas far as I know your liscense is to carry a concealed firearm. Not a specific one So when I said around 8 or 9 I was in the right ball park. That point was reflective of those 'high capacity magazines' people are so fond of. If "double stack" takes you out of the zone of 'someone's coming at me I need to put them down' then that's potentially something that needs addressing.no. But if you're stuck with a single weapon, only holding 8-10 rounds, you're done shooting pretty quickly, no? As opposed to being able to keep shooting because you have 15 rounds per magazine and multiple magazines. I'll never support being stuck with a single firearm. Here you get one screwdriver. It's a p3 Phillips and if you need a tamper proof Alan key head you're outta luck. Better call a contractor. I agree on shipping them to the middle east though. Interestingly...link...US arms companies are struggling to keep up with the demand that they've created. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted December 8, 2015 Report Share Posted December 8, 2015 What you keep about the house is your business. If you want to keep a shotgun for home defence, I can get on board with that, as long as it doesn't leave the property. Have however many weapons you want I guess, but only one small firearm (as described) when out in public. If 'good guy with a gun' is your aim, you can achieve that with skill and a handgun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Cysko Kid Posted December 8, 2015 Report Share Posted December 8, 2015 I want to have the greatest possible advantage. Contrary to the movies it's very possible to miss with a handgun. Especially when a target is moving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbedward Posted December 8, 2015 Report Share Posted December 8, 2015 People are dumb. Concealed carry is mostly beneficial in an attempted mugging or something if you're walking down the street to defend yourself or business, etc. - but most people can't conduct themselves in a walmart I'm pretty happy they aren't all carrying guns personally. In a crowded chaotic place like a theater or a party, it might not be so easy to get your sights on a guy wearing body armor and wielding an ar-15 shooting people indiscriminately. In some of these places it's hard to even tell where it's coming from - people just run opposite of the noise. Then there's the good samaritan who witnessed somebody get carjacked, then pulled out his gun and accidentally shot the guy who got carjacked in the head (talk about having a bad day). And isn't there another guy who was stealing a case of beer from a gas station recently and got killed by a good samaritan? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LogicIsForSquares Posted December 8, 2015 Report Share Posted December 8, 2015 Those situations - Post-Katrina, riots etc. - is where the police (or even military) needs to step in and control things. In the richest country in the world, it shouldn't be up to individuals to protect themselves from looters after a natural disaster. Your country needs to sort its shit out in that regard. If multiple people are coming at you, any gun is unlikely to be enough. And yes, criminals are criminals and will not care about the law. But if you've got a lot fewer guns capable of doing lots of damage that are easily obtainable through legal means, what chance do you have of stopping them getting those guns? Response people can only do so much in the short term. Until things are under control, you are in charge of your own safety. Having a firearm is most definitely going to be enough to protect you from multiple assailants. The two times I have had people try to rob me, they were in numbers. The gun genie is already out of the lamp. If guns were banned right now and all production was stopped, they are enough firearms amongst the civilian population to last for a few thousand years. So stopping law abiding people from purchasing those types of firearms only punishes them and no one else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LogicIsForSquares Posted December 8, 2015 Report Share Posted December 8, 2015 People are dumb. Concealed carry is mostly beneficial in an attempted mugging or something if you're walking down the street to defend yourself or business, etc. - but most people can't conduct themselves in a walmart I'm pretty happy they aren't all carrying guns personally. In a crowded chaotic place like a theater or a party, it might not be so easy to get your sights on a guy wearing body armor and wielding an ar-15 shooting people indiscriminately. In some of these places it's hard to even tell where it's coming from - people just run opposite of the noise. Then there's the good samaritan who witnessed somebody get carjacked, then pulled out his gun and accidentally shot the guy who got carjacked in the head (talk about having a bad day). And isn't there another guy who was stealing a case of beer from a gas station recently and got killed by a good Samaritan? So the most logical thing is to say screw the concealed gun and go the "kiss your ass goodbye" route in the event of a mass shooting? For the few dummy events that have occurred, you can find many events where having a concealed permit saved lives. Lots of people have accidentally injured/killed themselves and others with much more mundane items. That doesn't mean that we stop using nail guns and ladders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LogicIsForSquares Posted December 8, 2015 Report Share Posted December 8, 2015 Have however many weapons you want I guess, but only one small firearm (as described) when out in public. If 'good guy with a gun' is your aim, you can achieve that with skill and a handgun. Life doesn't work like the movies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted December 8, 2015 Report Share Posted December 8, 2015 Good people have a right to protect themselves and their families whereever they are. We're a pretty big country, Chris. You live on a little island. Get real. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted December 8, 2015 Report Share Posted December 8, 2015 Life doesn't work like the movies. So the solution is spraying as many bullets as you can until you hit the target, regardless of what else you hit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LogicIsForSquares Posted December 8, 2015 Report Share Posted December 8, 2015 So the solution is spraying as many bullets as you can until you hit the target, regardless of what else you hit? If I am spraying bullets everywhere, it wouldn't matter what type of gun I have. I would be a danger to everyone around me. A rifle is a far better tool to stop someone who is breaking into your home then a pistol. If they are brazen enough to enter your home (at least in the U.S.), they are likely armed. I like having better odds. As a general rule, I don't spray with anything but a garden hose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbedward Posted December 8, 2015 Report Share Posted December 8, 2015 So the most logical thing is to say screw the concealed gun and go the "kiss your ass goodbye" route in the event of a mass shooting? For the few dummy events that have occurred, you can find many events where having a concealed permit saved lives. Lots of people have accidentally injured/killed themselves and others with much more mundane items. That doesn't mean that we stop using nail guns and ladders. Guns have 1 purpose so the last analogy is irrelevant. I have no problem with concealed carry and I think it's a good thing, but I sure as hell don't want everybody walking around with a gun. Also I'm saying when a shot is fired in something like a theater and everybody starts running, falling, screaming - it's not very likely you'll be able to pull out your pistol and get the shooter in your sights very easily - unless you have nerves of steel like a navy seal or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted December 8, 2015 Report Share Posted December 8, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted December 8, 2015 Report Share Posted December 8, 2015 If I am spraying bullets everywhere, it wouldn't matter what type of gun I have. I would be a danger to everyone around me. A rifle is a far better tool to stop someone who is breaking into your home then a pistol. If they are brazen enough to enter your home (at least in the U.S.), they are likely armed. I like having better odds. As a general rule, I don't spray with anything but a garden hose. I did mention about having other weapons in the home. If you break in to someone's home they have every right to believe you're armed, you have no rights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LogicIsForSquares Posted December 8, 2015 Report Share Posted December 8, 2015 Guns have 1 purpose so the last analogy is irrelevant. I have no problem with concealed carry and I think it's a good thing, but I sure as hell don't want everybody walking around with a gun. Also I'm saying when a shot is fired in something like a theater and everybody starts running, falling, screaming - it's not very likely you'll be able to pull out your pistol and get the shooter in your sights very easily - unless you have nerves of steel like a navy seal or something. That is a training issue which I strongly recommend people do. I am a shooting instructor. That said, even without training, having the ability to potentially stop the threat is better than using the "not getting eaten by the bear" method of survival. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted December 8, 2015 Report Share Posted December 8, 2015 It's beyond belief that you don't need any training to own a gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LogicIsForSquares Posted December 8, 2015 Report Share Posted December 8, 2015 I did mention about having other weapons in the home. If you break in to someone's home they have every right to believe you're armed, you have no rights. A shotgun is as bad or worse than a rifle if your concerned with Yosemite Sam firing rounds off willy nilly and hitting your sleeping neighbors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LogicIsForSquares Posted December 8, 2015 Report Share Posted December 8, 2015 It's beyond belief that you don't need any training to own a gun. To carry concealed, you do. To purchase, no. They used to teach gun/hunter safety courses at middle schools/junior highs but states are doing away with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted December 8, 2015 Report Share Posted December 8, 2015 the video, chris. IF one of the family had a ccw, they could have stopped the gang beating and murder, and moved them away from them, and they all would have gotten to safety. in England. But it's a gun free zone. If you want to spout off about our country, watch the video and defend that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted December 8, 2015 Report Share Posted December 8, 2015 Posted Today, 12:51 PM It's beyond belief that you don't need any training to own a gun. Chris ****************************************** Young people have to go to training to be allowed to hunt. CCW licensees certainly do have to go for training, get background checked, finger printed, etc. The only way to require training for owning a gun, would be to have a national database of all gun owners. And that, as we saw in NY... lends itself to being used as a weapon against gun ownership. Dangerous slippery slope, because of the radical demoquackic extremists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pumpkin Eater Posted December 8, 2015 Report Share Posted December 8, 2015 Of people killed by guns every year? Yes. It holds steady between 10-12,000 people every year killed by guns in the US. No it doesn't. There have been four or five this year. Stop buying into doctored statistics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted December 8, 2015 Report Share Posted December 8, 2015 No it doesn't. There have been four or five this year. Stop buying into doctored statistics. four or five people killed by guns? I'm sure you don't mean that, so please clarify. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pumpkin Eater Posted December 8, 2015 Report Share Posted December 8, 2015 Good people have a right to protect themselves and their families whereever they are. We're a pretty big country, Chris. You live on a little island. Get real. Bam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pumpkin Eater Posted December 8, 2015 Report Share Posted December 8, 2015 Mass shootings as defined by the FBI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldBrownsFan Posted December 8, 2015 Report Share Posted December 8, 2015 Obama will probably go down as this country's greatest gun salesman ever: Stunning=> Over 100 MILLION Guns Sold in US Since Obama Became President (Video)http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2015/12/stunning-over-100-million-guns-sold-in-us-since-obama-became-president-video/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axe Posted December 8, 2015 Report Share Posted December 8, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted December 8, 2015 Report Share Posted December 8, 2015 and, of course, the complete and total victory for libs ... would be complete disarmament of Americans. http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2015/12/08/university-professor-admits-it-gun-control-wont-stop-shootings-we-need-domestic-disarmament-through-the-back-door/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legacy Fan Posted December 8, 2015 Report Share Posted December 8, 2015 Good point, legacy, and probably something I'm guilty of myself. I'll have a go at describing, without trying to use technical terms, what people are thinking. - What people who advocate 'common sense' gun restrictions want to avoid is anything that can fire a high frequency of bullets/rounds/whatever in a shot period of time. Like a 'machine gun' - I don't know the technical term. Any weapon currently available without a significant background check and about a borderline exclusive price entry point of high taxes and fees only fires one round with each squeeze of the trigger. Fully automatic (squeeze and spray) are exceptionally difficult to obtain. - Also, the ability to fire off a lot of bullets over a longer period of time, so something that you can fire quite quickly, has a lot of bullets. A weapon that can take a 500lb elk from 800-1000 yards isn't going to have much trouble with humans. Yet it's easier to obtain (if you have the $$) than a handgun. Why? Because it isn't "scary" looking. - Probably also something that would be worth restricting is spare magazines, clips or whatever you're calling it that you can drop out of the weapon and replace pretty quickly. Maybe moving to your point about self defense too quickly here, but I don't know how you limit these. If I am defending my home, I shouldn't have any restrictions on owning/using magazines. If I am defending myself outside of my home I think 2 spare magazines are reasonable if concealed properly (or the attempt is there). Walking/driving through an unfamiliar area where there is potentially trouble (again, this isn't me seeking out trouble vigilante-style as is portrayed in the media) I would like the ability to DEFEND myself meaning - neutralize a threat so that I am able to remove myself safely from the situation. This is important: stop the threat, get to safety. Again if I'm at home, I'm gonna keep squeezing as long as I have a means to defend myself. - The main point is, if you're worried about self defence, fine, get a gun that allows you to defend yourself in a hurry. I'm not an expert but I believe a pistol can hold something in the order of 6 or 7 bullets? Maybe 8 or 9. That's plenty to deter someone from whatever's going on, and also plenty to put down some crazy with a gun, and also plenty to fight off a gang (if they themselves don't have guns for some reason). - There's no need, in self defence terms, to have what I know as a 'long arm' - a rifle, shotgun etc, something that's not exactly draw and fire quickly like a pistol. There's no need to put about 30 rounds in 5 seconds. Again, if I'm defending my home, business, etc. this is absolutely what I want. - There's no need to open carry your hunting rifle when dropping the kids off at school, or picking up some groceries. Agreed. It's very silly. But, I shouldn't have to break down a hunting/sporting rifle into 30 pieces and lock it in three safes in my trunk to be able to drive to hunt either. This is why some of the "open carry of long rifles" exist, because some towns/cities have ordinances that require ridiculous handling/storage procedures if not. That's all based on the assumption that having guns readily available for self defence makes sense, of course. To be frank, the bigger problem is with stupid people, which won't be fixed by legislating on guns, that will just make it harder for them to exercise their stupidity on others. You have people who are so quick to anger because it's the only way they know how to deal with issues. Things escalate over trivial things and people get shot. For example: Absolutely. I am guaranteed the right to defend myself and my family against these people. 1st, Thanks for the honest/sincere answer. Gonna respond to your points above in red &bold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legacy Fan Posted December 8, 2015 Report Share Posted December 8, 2015 Do you know what we also don't have? Daily mass shootings and a homicide rate consistent with a third world shit hole. But sure, cling on to that right to own a gun, it clearly means more to you than the lives of the literally tens of thousands of people killed by guns every year in your country. Yeah, but the rate has consistently fallen for 20+ years despite gun ownership increasing. https://www.aei.org/publication/chart-of-the-day-more-guns-less-gun-violence-between-1993-and-2013/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legacy Fan Posted December 9, 2015 Report Share Posted December 9, 2015 A shotgun is as bad or worse than a rifle if your concerned with Yosemite Sam firing rounds off willy nilly and hitting your sleeping neighbors. exactly. That is a training issue which I strongly recommend people do. I am a shooting instructor. That said, even without training, having the ability to potentially stop the threat is better than using the "not getting eaten by the bear" method of survival. And again, yes. plenty of other professions & situations where the ability to remain calm and rely on training to perform under intense pressure is applicable: Trauma surgeons, firemen, airline pilots, search & rescue, EMTs, EOD (bomb squads) etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Cysko Kid Posted December 9, 2015 Report Share Posted December 9, 2015 Mass murder situations - where thered really no rhyme or reason to it- is a pretty recent phenomena. Perhaps the root causes ought to be examined. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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