stillmotion Posted December 8, 2015 Report Share Posted December 8, 2015 Disregarding the fact the Weeden and Lynch aren't even close to the same prospect whatsoever...like not even in the same universe...what does Weeden's failure have to do with Lynch's career potential?. The key word is potential, he might be a big project. Would you like to wait a few years of mediocre seasons to see him develop? He might not be NFL ready, so before we jump the gun and take a QB, we need to think about it. Sure he has a big body, and has put up big numbers, but hasn't he also fumbled a lot of times? I think we need a stud playmaker, and an ILB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted December 8, 2015 Report Share Posted December 8, 2015 plus....we have 4 QB's under contract and, really, haven't determined if any of them are good enough to be the future....(yet) So....if we draft a "project", which "project" do we cut?......Austin?.....Johnny?.....Shaw?......all?.....none?...... (no matter, because which ever one we cut, he will probably go be great somewhere else, while we spin our wheels with the ones who cant play)..(just joking)...(but not really) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyingfooldoug Posted December 8, 2015 Report Share Posted December 8, 2015 Again what players are available in the top three that someone would give us multiple pics to get? Lynch isn't going in the top five WSS I see no one player as a "sure thing" .. With that, you take the best available and numbers increase your odds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Couch Pulls Out Posted December 8, 2015 Report Share Posted December 8, 2015 . The key word is potential, he might be a big project. Would you like to wait a few years of mediocre seasons to see him develop? He might not be NFL ready, so before we jump the gun and take a QB, we need to think about it. Sure he has a big body, and has put up big numbers, but hasn't he also fumbled a lot of times? I think we need a stud playmaker, and an ILB Every single player in the draft is a project - you draft on potential and nothing more. If we deem Manziel to not be the franchise guy of the future, I'd rather a Lynch than a Bosa. JJ Watt is my favorite player not named Joe Thomas, but throwing Bosa on a team with no QB at the helm is not appealing to me. That said, I have no idea of the QB prospects for 2017, nor do I believe the QB position to be the root of our failure this year whatsoever. I just see shades of Rodgers in Lynch, like I did Mariota, and I would hate to miss out on someone who could be the franchise turnaround. Granted, I have plenty of film to watch, so my opinion could and likely will change between now and draft time. As of today, assuming we go into next season Manziel-less, I would like to see either of these two scenarios: 1) Paxton Lynch 2) Ogbah/Nassib 3) Kentrell Brothers 1) Joey Bosa 2) Kentrell Brothers 3) Cardale Jones If we could come out of the first three rounds with help at DE, LB, and QB, that would be perfect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted December 8, 2015 Report Share Posted December 8, 2015 Can we stop the 'WE MUST DRAFT A QB' bullshit already? Can anyone genuinely look at any of our games and, regardless of who was our QB, say "this loss is a direct result of bad QB play?" No and no... In 4 weeks we may know if we have a franchise QB with whom we can trust our team, but as of now we do not. I always say that you always have to be looking for your next QB. The only variables are how hard you look and the price you pay. So unless we are pretty damn sure JM is "the one", we will draft a QB... at least on Day 2. But if... if we see a QB in the draft we believe will be the next great NFL QB, we will take him Day 1. Watched arguably his best game against his most difficult opponent, Ole Miss. And vs. TAMU??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted December 8, 2015 Report Share Posted December 8, 2015 That's always my opinion. Just wondering who there is in the top 3 that someone would give you multiple pics for? ... and that's the quandary. Where is our RG3? I won't lie, Lynch is definitely intriguing. The problem is, he doesn't appear to be ready to take over an NFL team. In typical Jiggins fashion, I have written a long and pointless thread... Between McCown and Davis I think we are in a great position to draft a project QB... best I can remember. Hardly typical... you have a way of framing issues and asking great questions in two paragraphs. For me that is the "typical Jiggins Fashion", and I, for one, like it. So anytime you want to double your output and go with your take, as you did above, I'll hang with you... and tell you where you're wrong and why... plus....we have 4 QB's under contract and, really, haven't determined if any of them are good enough to be the future....(yet) So....if we draft a "project", which "project" do we cut?......Austin?.....Johnny?.....Shaw?......all?.....none?...... (no matter, because which ever one we cut, he will probably go be great somewhere else, while we spin our wheels with the ones who cant play)..(just joking)...(but not really) McCown is a bridge... a good bridge, maybe the perfect bridge, but a bridge and maybe only for 2 more seasons. I would lose no sleep letting Shaw slip away. If vs. Cinci I'd seen even a glimpse of the Davis I saw flash late vs. the Ravens, then I'd be optimistic about his chance, but I did not catch that glimpse. That leaves one candidate and four games... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted December 8, 2015 Report Share Posted December 8, 2015 Regardless of our lack of talent at other positions, we need to draft Paxton. Forget seeing what Johnny has during the last 4 games...he needs to be released of traded after the season's end. Can the Browns take the chance of him repeating his antics going into next year? Take the chance of having to release/trade him during next year's season? Do the veteran players actually want to play with a "leader" like Manziel? No, on all counts. This Manziel circus is 100% the fault of the front office/head coach. They knew they were taking a huge risk when they couldn't afford to take a risk. They're the ones who let us down, not Johnny. Heck, the poor kid has a serious addiction to alcohol....he is an alcoholic, period. What did they expect him to do...be cured of alcoholism by promoting him to the starter? Give an alcoholic a reason to drink and he will drink. Whether it's due to good news (celebration) or bad news (drowning one's sorrows), he IS going to drink. He will not quit at this age. He will cover up his drinking, deny he is drinking, and lie to everyone about his drinking. This kid needs to hit absolute, rock-bottom. Being named an NFL starter and making millions/year is not rock-bottom. The Browns need to realize this and write him off. We need to try, again, to find our franchise QB as you're not going to win without one. Paxton represent the best chance at finding a franchise QB in this draft, and we can't wait till the next draft. He needs some development time but he is our best bet at 6'7", 245lbs., cannon arm, rare athleticism for a tall guy, and good decision-making. Pull the trigger. Pull the trigger on a 1st round overreach? why? Is he a Mariota? I dont' understand how people don't get we need defensive talent. But talent that actually doesn't have a problem playing in Cleveland so no to Bosa. But maybe draft Bosa and try to trade him to someone? We need to keep him out of the AFC north unless you want another Harrison/suggs to deal iwth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted December 8, 2015 Report Share Posted December 8, 2015 worst defense in the league, were we historically bad? Wouldn't surprise me. I wonder if the highest paid defense was ever the worst. Defense, defense, defense. We need to firesale these guys and pick up talent, FA and draft. It "has" to be our #1 priority even over QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted December 8, 2015 Report Share Posted December 8, 2015 we will have #1 and then #32. We better get 2 starters regardless of position Do you mean #1 and #33? (first pick in second round is #33 not 32) Bosa #1 And Derrick Henry #33? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted December 8, 2015 Report Share Posted December 8, 2015 That number 1 pick is more curse than anything. everyone yells yipee, yipee but it's a rare year when that first pick makes an impact. And if you pick 1 and gotta wait 3 years for him to 1,mature, 2, have the game "slow down" 3, have it all come together. In the meantime you have 2 billion fans screaming for your ass. All that for 1 guy when you need 10 spots filled. FAs suck!!!!!!! They already got theirs and have no drive to excel. That takes youth..... IT'S HUMAN NATURE! #1 overall picks DO often make an impact: Have you heard of Cam Newton, Andrew Luck, Peyton Manning? Bruce Smith? Jameis Winston is certainly making an impact. Orlando Pace, Troy Aikman. John Elway, Earl Campbell, Leroy Selmon, Terry Bradshaw, OJ Simpson etc. etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Couch Pulls Out Posted December 8, 2015 Report Share Posted December 8, 2015 Do you mean #1 and #33? (first pick in second round is #33 not 32) Bosa #1 And Derrick Henry #33? No, he wanted two starters. Not one starter and one Trent Richardson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Couch Pulls Out Posted December 8, 2015 Report Share Posted December 8, 2015 worst defense in the league, were we historically bad? Wouldn't surprise me. I wonder if the highest paid defense was ever the worst. Defense, defense, defense. We need to firesale these guys and pick up talent, FA and draft. It "has" to be our #1 priority even over QB. We have talent. We need a coaching staff who can actually coach. What do you think is more likely? - Five relatively recent former Pro Bowl players with established production have completely forgotten how to play. OR - One rookie head coach doesn't know how to coach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted December 8, 2015 Report Share Posted December 8, 2015 No, he wanted two starters. Not one starter and one Trent Richardson. I hear ya. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted December 8, 2015 Report Share Posted December 8, 2015 We have talent. We need a coaching staff who can actually coach. What do you think is more likely? - Five relatively recent former Pro Bowl players with established production have completely forgotten how to play. OR - One rookie head coach doesn't know how to coach. Bada Bing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted December 8, 2015 Report Share Posted December 8, 2015 Five relatively recent former Pro Bowl players with established production have completely forgotten how to play. How recent? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wargograw Posted December 8, 2015 Report Share Posted December 8, 2015 Get two of Bosa, Ragland, Zeke, and a WR, and I am ecstatic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wargograw Posted December 8, 2015 Report Share Posted December 8, 2015 No and no... In 4 weeks we may know if we have a franchise QB with whom we can trust our team, but as of now we do not. I always say that you always have to be looking for your next QB. The only variables are how hard you look and the price you pay. So unless we are pretty damn sure JM is "the one", we will draft a QB... at least on Day 2. But if... if we see a QB in the draft we believe will be the next great NFL QB, we will take him Day 1. And vs. TAMU??? Memphis didn't play TAMU. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Couch Pulls Out Posted December 8, 2015 Report Share Posted December 8, 2015 How recent? Tramon Williams - 2010, 2011 (DNP because of Packers Super Bowl) Donte Whitner - 2012, 2013, 2014 Randy Starks - 2010, 2012 Joe Haden - 2013, 2014 Tashaun Gipson - 2014 These guys were productive members up until the moment they came here for the most part. If you look at Tramon Williams' 2013 and 2014 compared to Haden's, his stats weren't too far off despite being not technically being the Packers #1 CB (I'm fairly certain they implemented a RCB/LCB situation rather than a #1/#2 once Woodson left, a la Sherman and Seattle). Tramon's numbers were indicative of being a #2 CB, less passes defensed, more tackles. Starks is only one year removed from a 49 tackle, 4 sack season. Dansby is only two years removed from a 122 tackle, 6.5 sack season. The point is, these guys were fine. On paper, they are talented players. But the paper talent isn't translating to on the field talent, and the only reason I can think of is coaching. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted December 8, 2015 Report Share Posted December 8, 2015 Point is, TC, that the most recent All-Pros earned those honors under the current system. Add that Williams' and Starks' strings were broken prior to their arrival... Add that Whitner's and Haden's strings continued from prior systems... Brainfart duly noted, war... some kind of transitive property of QB was apparently in play... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
browns23 Posted December 8, 2015 Report Share Posted December 8, 2015 There are so many issues on both sides of the ball, we really just need an impact player on either side. We have scored 10 points or less in 5 games this year. 3 of those games came against divisional opponents as well. We are 27th in total offensive yardage and third worst in PPG in the entire NFL. So I know our defense is god awful, but our offense seems to be getting more credit than they deserve. I don't care who we take with our #1 pick as long make an impact regardless. Just for fun looked up some defensive stats. We are 30th in sacks, 29th in total yards given up, 31st in rush defense, 25th in pass defense, and 31st in points given up. Bottom line we give up too many points and do not score enough on a consistent basis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike H Posted December 8, 2015 Report Share Posted December 8, 2015 I like Goff over Lynch from limited I have seen of both. If they decide to give up on Manziel, QB should be the pick. The question then is which one. And I get that there plenty of problems with the roster -- but removing their coaching stuff (Especially every person involved with their defense), could help. Defensive coordinator candidates shouldn't be hard to find. Perry Fewell did a nice job with NYG as DC for a period. Hes the DB coach for Redskins. Their personnel (from my understanding) has been injured, and subpar talent-wise, but they're not playing so poorly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted December 9, 2015 Report Share Posted December 9, 2015 Do you mean #1 and #33? (first pick in second round is #33 not 32) Bosa #1 And Derrick Henry #33? Patriots forfeit their pick, so whoever picks first also picks #32. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted December 9, 2015 Report Share Posted December 9, 2015 Patriots forfeit their pick, so whoever picks first also picks #32. Right.....Watergate, I remember now. (So it will almost like having 2 1st round picks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasAg1969 Posted December 9, 2015 Report Share Posted December 9, 2015 Given the overall lack of a recognizable #1 overall QB pick, we either figure out who the best player is and take him or let other teams make us offers we can't refuse in a trade-down bonanza. I Could see us trading down two or three times before we actually select someone. And right now this team needs a massive infusion of 1st/2nd round players both sides of the ball. We need to find a way to convert our first 3 picks that are in actuality high first through lowest 2nd (when you account for the NE forfeiture), into about 5 or 6 in that same grouping. It would almost take a computer, but it could be done with the right GM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted December 9, 2015 Report Share Posted December 9, 2015 Given the overall lack of a recognizable #1 overall QB pick, we either figure out who the best player is and take him or let other teams make us offers we can't refuse in a trade-down bonanza. I Could see us trading down two or three times before we actually select someone. And right now this team needs a massive infusion of 1st/2nd round players both sides of the ball. We need to find a way to convert our first 3 picks that are in actuality high first through lowest 2nd (when you account for the NE forfeiture), into about 5 or 6 in that same grouping. It would almost take a computer, but it could be done with the right GM. Things like that have been done before and have garnered us the likes of TR, Weeden, Gilbert, Manziel, Quinn etc. I say....if there is a #1 overall pick that looks like he has HOF potential, take him. That could be Bosa. ONLY if you do not evaluate the player that highly would I accept such a trade down scenario. (But then....who is doing the evaluating....Ray Farmer? Oi! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted December 9, 2015 Report Share Posted December 9, 2015 Agree, if there's a HOF calibre guy, you take him, regardless of position (except LT, where we already have one). Otherwise, it's looking murky, and for the same reason we'd look to trade down, nobody will want to trade up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted December 9, 2015 Report Share Posted December 9, 2015 does anyone see a future HOFer in this draft?......I sure dont..... if any player is to be called that, Id say Bosa is the best bet tho.... But, there are no slam dunks this year.....which figures....considering our luck with the draft.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted December 9, 2015 Report Share Posted December 9, 2015 does anyone see a future HOFer in this draft?......I sure dont..... if any player is to be called that, Id say Bosa is the best bet tho.... But, there are no slam dunks this year.....which figures....considering our luck with the draft.... Every time this comes up I think of the fucking colts. They happen to be the worst team in a year with peyton manning, then happen to be the worst team after ditching him and getting andrew luck. Shit, there's some 10 year old someone in america that's going to be a hall of fame QB, declare for the draft a year after the colts ditch luck and they'll be top of the draft to select him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted December 9, 2015 Report Share Posted December 9, 2015 Every time this comes up I think of the fucking colts. They happen to be the worst team in a year with peyton manning, then happen to be the worst team after ditching him and getting andrew luck. Shit, there's some 10 year old someone in america that's going to be a hall of fame QB, declare for the draft a year after the colts ditch luck and they'll be top of the draft to select him. They were also the team with the worst record the year Elway was drafted....he just refused to play for them..... In terms of winning games leading upto drafting luck, they won 12-12-14-12-13-12-14-10....then only 2....then back to 11-11-11..... HTF does THAT happen?.....(conspiracy).... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted December 9, 2015 Report Share Posted December 9, 2015 It happens by putting Dan Orlovksy in as your QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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