Mark O Posted January 5, 2016 Report Share Posted January 5, 2016 This is verbatim criticism of Bridgewater during that draft build up. Goff has unbelievable fundamental talent, and a really good arm. There are some things not to like, but he's impressing me. Well..someone said if we had sushi brown running things, we would've drafted Bridgewater because the analytics said to take him. So maybe by some miracle we can get a mulligan on that. Since at this point I'm not sure there is anyone on this board who would rather have Johnny noshow over Bridgewater. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbedward Posted January 5, 2016 Report Share Posted January 5, 2016 Goff is the only QB in this draft worth a top 10 pick IMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike H Posted January 5, 2016 Report Share Posted January 5, 2016 Goff is the only QB in this draft worth a top 10 pick IMO I'm leaning that way as well. If Johnny is gone, I think it has to be Goff. McCown the perfect mentor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimpy07 Posted January 5, 2016 Report Share Posted January 5, 2016 Goff is the only QB in this draft worth a top 10 pick IMO Im beginning to think along the same lines, if we go all in at qb with the #2 pick it has to be Goff. Not that im 100% sold on thats what we do, I still think we could still possibly pick up a free agent in the Bradford kaepernick mould. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted January 5, 2016 Report Share Posted January 5, 2016 Goff is the only QB in this draft worth a top 10 pick IMO Of the second round? Perhaps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbedward Posted January 5, 2016 Report Share Posted January 5, 2016 Of the second round? Perhaps. I think you should get into some deeper analysis of him Gip. I haven't been positive on any QBs that have come out in recent years really (sans Luck) - I've always been against using our consistently high picks on one, but Goff is different...his ceiling is very, very high. Definitely would be about the lowest-risk highest-reward QB we've ever taken (Since 99') I found this from MMQB earlier (it's from October)...pretty close to what I think of him (not that I'm an expert, but many of the "experts" seem to be agreeing on Goff). http://mmqb.si.com/mmqb/2015/10/27/jared-goff-nfl-draft-2016-top-quarterback-qb-prospect Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted January 5, 2016 Report Share Posted January 5, 2016 I think you should get into some deeper analysis of him Gip. I haven't been positive on any QBs that have come out in recent years really (sans Luck) - I've always been against using our consistently high picks on one, but Goff is different...his ceiling is very, very high. Definitely would be about the lowest-risk highest-reward QB we've ever taken (Since 99') I found this from MMQB earlier (it's from October)...pretty close to what I think of him (not that I'm an expert, but many of the "experts" seem to be agreeing on Goff). http://mmqb.si.com/mmqb/2015/10/27/jared-goff-nfl-draft-2016-top-quarterback-qb-prospect I think I will wait until the draft talk gets a bit more serious......Like after the Super Bowl at least. I mean, when is the draft? In May? They could play an entire UFL football season in that time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Couch Pulls Out Posted January 5, 2016 Report Share Posted January 5, 2016 I think you should get into some deeper analysis of him Gip. I haven't been positive on any QBs that have come out in recent years really (sans Luck) - I've always been against using our consistently high picks on one, but Goff is different...his ceiling is very, very high. Definitely would be about the lowest-risk highest-reward QB we've ever taken (Since 99') I found this from MMQB earlier (it's from October)...pretty close to what I think of him (not that I'm an expert, but many of the "experts" seem to be agreeing on Goff). http://mmqb.si.com/mmqb/2015/10/27/jared-goff-nfl-draft-2016-top-quarterback-qb-prospect Is Goff the top QB talent in this draft? More than likely. But that doesn't mean he's a top-10 talent, per se. I agree he will go in the top 10, probably top 5. Hell, we might grab him. But there's still parts of his game that I think don't translate well - namely that he's had his most trouble in "bigger" games against ranked teams, unbeatens or conference rivals. His only multi-interception games over the past two seasons have come at the hands of Southern Cal (2), Stanford (2) and Utah (5). I'm not saying that Goff is a bad prospect, or that those games in a nutshell are red flags. I like him enough, and he's probably the best prospect and will experience some NFL success. I'm saying that I think his top end potential is a franchise-level QB akin to Andy Dalton - good, but not great. And that's fine. If we pick him, I'll be happy. I think anybody with half a brain would take Andy Dalton over any QB we've had since Bernie. But I think personally believe that we could get Wentz in the second and not have a noticeable difference in offensive performance - and that leaves us the option on swinging for the fences for a guy like Josh Rosen in a couple of years. It's like going to a car auction and buying the best car there just because it's the best one there. One week, the best car could be a '94 Accord, the next week it could be a 2013 Camry, the next week it could be a 2015 Corvette. You only have the cash to pick one the top one once, so do you blow your load on the Camry when there's the possibility of a Corvette the next week? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbedward Posted January 5, 2016 Report Share Posted January 5, 2016 The few bad games are really the only thing against him. But it's not like Cal is a top 10 team talent wise in college football - they aren't that good. The guy has broken the all-time pac-12 TD record and such. But what I'm more interested in - is his footwork, pocket prescence, accuracy literally everywhere short-mid-deep range, transitioning through reads, never panics in the face of pressure - adjusts release to throw over the blitz. The guy has a lot of qualities in his game that make him an excellent NFL prospect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrb12711 Posted January 5, 2016 Report Share Posted January 5, 2016 The few bad games are really the only thing against him. But it's not like Cal is a top 10 team talent wise in college football - they aren't that good. The guy has broken the all-time pac-12 TD record and such. But what I'm more interested in - is his footwork, pocket prescence, accuracy literally everywhere short-mid-deep range, transitioning through reads, never panics in the face of pressure - adjusts release to throw over the blitz. The guy has a lot of qualities in his game that make him an excellent NFL prospect. I watched both the Cal game and the Memphis game, both really being the first time I've seen either guy in action. I know some of you scoff at the thought, but the eye test beyond the scores/stats really, really favored Goff IMO. Goff just looked very natural out there, dare I say cerebral even. One thing I look at for QB's is when it's clear the game is slowed down for them, which is clearly was for Goff. Yeah Yeah, it was against Air Force but my point still stands. Bottom line is everything he did looked natural and just solid, fundamental skills at the position. Lynch on the other hand didn't do it for me much at all. You can tell the athletic ability is there, and obviously flashes of good football. But, at a base level just looked how I was watching Goff everything he was doing seemed awkward and labored. The natural fluidity you like to see in QB's is something I didn't see in him at all. I saw a guy with potential and athletic ability, but that describes a lot of guys with NFL hopes. Also, it's a pretty interesting and somewhat backed up with fact opinion that super tall QB's fail by in large in the NFL. Outside of Joe Flacco there really hasn't been a dude 6'6'' or taller to dominate the NFL. I've heard analysis that even those two-three inches allows defenders to better read a QB's eyes before the snap, but who knows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Couch Pulls Out Posted January 5, 2016 Report Share Posted January 5, 2016 The few bad games are really the only thing against him. But it's not like Cal is a top 10 team talent wise in college football - they aren't that good. The guy has broken the all-time pac-12 TD record and such. But what I'm more interested in - is his footwork, pocket prescence, accuracy literally everywhere short-mid-deep range, transitioning through reads, never panics in the face of pressure - adjusts release to throw over the blitz. The guy has a lot of qualities in his game that make him an excellent NFL prospect. Those are the things I like about Goff, and they are also the same things I like about Wentz. Tiamat was onto something with Wentz, every single game I've watched, I've liked him more. Wentz just did it against lesser talent, but he was consistently strong in those aspects in every game - just like Goff. In my opinion, if we were to take a guy based on those assets, take the guy in the second and see about developing him. But, like I said, that's just me. Things will likely change between now and the draft, and I wouldn't be opposed to taking Goff if they deem him to be the guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Couch Pulls Out Posted January 5, 2016 Report Share Posted January 5, 2016 UPDATE: After 8 full games of Goff, the scales are shifting. He might be worth the pick at #2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbedward Posted January 5, 2016 Report Share Posted January 5, 2016 Trying to tell you people... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Couch Pulls Out Posted January 5, 2016 Report Share Posted January 5, 2016 Trying to tell you people... It was never a doubt of his talent in my opinion, it was a cost-benefit analysis of our draft as a whole. I didn't (and still don't yet) see Goff + whoever benefitting us more than Bosa + Wentz, especially with the chance of landing Rosen in two years. I didn't see Goff as a can't miss QB, and that's what you really have to look for when picking at #2. I still don't see Goff as a can't miss, but he's certainly better than I gave him credit for. Depending on coaching hires and free agent acquisitions, I could see the value in taking Goff at #2 - he has natural arm talent, size, intangibles, football intelligence, and proven performance against top talent for the most part. But I'm still salivating over the Bosa + Wentz combination as well. This is tough for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark O Posted January 5, 2016 Report Share Posted January 5, 2016 But I'm still salivating over the Bosa + Wentz combination as well. This is tough for me. I think the question really is.....can Bosa be on the same level as someone like JJ Watt? Picking a defensive player at #2 overall, he needs to be a gamechanger. If that opinion is that Bosa can be that guy....then thats who we have to take in my opinion.. I don't know enough about college football or watch enough of it to have a strong opinion but I'm leaning more towards liking the Bosa and then a QB in 2nd or 3rd. Twatwater went 32nd and I think we'd all agree we'd rather have him that Johnny shitshow right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted January 5, 2016 Report Share Posted January 5, 2016 But I'm still salivating over the Bosa + Wentz combination as well. This is tough for me. lol... May I suggest you look for a late-first, front-seven player with impact potential to balance the scales? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Couch Pulls Out Posted January 5, 2016 Report Share Posted January 5, 2016 I think the question really is.....can Bosa be on the same level as someone like JJ Watt? Picking a defensive player at #2 overall, he needs to be a gamechanger. If that opinion is that Bosa can be that guy....then thats who we have to take in my opinion.. I don't know enough about college football or watch enough of it to have a strong opinion but I'm leaning more towards liking the Bosa and then a QB in 2nd or 3rd. Twatwater went 32nd and I think we'd all agree we'd rather have him that Johnny shitshow right now. No, I don't believe he is another JJ Watt. That is a generational talent. I'd put him more as a Jared Allen in his prime. Or like one of my all-time favorites...Pat Kerney. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Couch Pulls Out Posted January 5, 2016 Report Share Posted January 5, 2016 lol... May I suggest you look for a late-first, front-seven player with impact potential to balance the scales? The problem is...who? Ragland won't be there. Allen, Bullard, Lawson, Nassib are mocked to be in that general area, but I think that the talent differential between Bosa and any of these guys is much larger than that between Goff and Wentz. As for LB's - Ragland won't be there. Beckwith will likely be available at the top of the third as of today. The best I could come up with would be Calhoun. And the Goff + Calhoun combo, while interesting enough, doesn't strike me as much as the Bosa + Wentz combo. Especially if we keep McCown. The biggest factor for me is what we plan on doing with McCown. I could get by for another year or possibly two with McCown at the helm if it means we make solid decisions in the draft to acquire top talent in problem areas. Then it would be a better situation to add a young QB. I see us winning no more than 7 games a season regardless of who we have at QB for the next few years. That's why I'm hesitant on Goff if Bosa is on the board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbedward Posted January 5, 2016 Report Share Posted January 5, 2016 If Goff is "the guy" then you can't pass him up. He might not last past Dallas, definitely won't past San Fran. Someone may wanna trade up. I know we suck everywhere, I'm just leaning towards the idea that Goff is the guy with pretty high franchise QB potential. At #32 I'm not sure. Taking the analytical approach probably contradicts any expensive trade up unless we really, really like another guy who won't fall that far Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted January 5, 2016 Report Share Posted January 5, 2016 The problem is...who? Someone will pop... I don't have a name yet. But once you add any reasonable candidate it starts balancing the scale. My "advantage" (if you want to call it that) is that I am not head over heels for Bosa. Also my advantage... I've not yet looked hard at Wentz. Still looking for something/anything wrong with Goff... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canton Dawg Posted January 5, 2016 Report Share Posted January 5, 2016 UPDATE: After 8 full games of Goff, the scales are shifting. He might be worth the pick at #2. I have to admit, I'm warming up to the idea of drafting Goff as well. With McCown on the team for the next 2 years, the timing couldn't be better to have a veteran QB to mentor whoever we draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark O Posted January 5, 2016 Report Share Posted January 5, 2016 No, I don't believe he is another JJ Watt. That is a generational talent. I'd put him more as a Jared Allen in his prime. Or like one of my all-time favorites...Pat Kerney. JJ Watt may be the wrong example. Jared Allen though is in that same mold. A guy who can change the game. A guy who the other team has to game plan for. A guy on defense that will make the opposing QB come to the line and go....."ok..where is whoever?" (Watt, Allen, Lewis, etc). If Bosa can be that guy? He's the guy I want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Couch Pulls Out Posted January 6, 2016 Report Share Posted January 6, 2016 Someone will pop... I don't have a name yet. But once you add any reasonable candidate it starts balancing the scale. My "advantage" (if you want to call it that) is that I am not head over heels for Bosa. Also my advantage... I've not yet looked hard at Wentz. Still looking for something/anything wrong with Goff... That's what I'm afraid of, actually. Someone "popping" between now and the draft shows us what? That he's a great offseason worker, but that's likely it. For non QB's, I really don't care too much what they do between now and the draft. For QB's, I really only care about the Wonderlic and how they look throwing the ball at the combine. I'm not head over heels for Bosa, either. I'm not an Ohio State homer, for the most part I don't really watch too much college football until after the fact for evaluation. But I think he is handly the best DE, and possibly the best prospect in general ... and that's a position of need for us. The "problems" I have with Goff aren't necessarily problems. They are all just tiny points of contention that just keep him from being a can't miss guy. One, I don't think he played well against the best talent he faced - a relatively minor issue. Two, he added 25 lbs. of bulk over the last season or two and he's still slight, he might not have much more to add - also a minor issue. Three, his deep accuracy leaves something to be desired...he has just as many bad deep throws as he does great ones. And that's about it. In a bubble, that's not NEARLY enough to dissuade me from liking him. But the fact that Wentz exists, and will probably be there at #32, gives me enough to wonder about the pick. Wentz possesses nearly all of the same physical and mental gifts as Goff. IMO, the trade off is that he's less accurate on his mid-level throws and he's played against far inferior talent, but he's in a bigger frame and he would allow us to get an impact player at he top of the draft. That's where my dilemma is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasAg1969 Posted January 6, 2016 Report Share Posted January 6, 2016 I just want to see the Browns usual carousel of fire staff, get a QB, fail, rinse, repeat, to just fucking stop. Draft a difference maker on D. I think Bosa looks to be that guy. Look for a QB later or pay the money to steal Denver's QB in waiting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbedward Posted January 6, 2016 Report Share Posted January 6, 2016 I just want to see the Browns usual carousel of fire staff, get a QB, fail, rinse, repeat, to just fucking stop. Draft a difference maker on D. I think Bosa looks to be that guy. Look for a QB later or pay the money to steal Denver's QB in waiting. We all want it to stop, which is I'm leaning towards drafting the best QB prospect to come out since 2012. Weeden and Manziel were always a long shot to be the answer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark O Posted January 6, 2016 Report Share Posted January 6, 2016 I just want to see the Browns usual carousel of fire staff, get a QB, fail, rinse, repeat, to just fucking stop. Draft a difference maker on D. I think Bosa looks to be that guy. Look for a QB later or pay the money to steal Denver's QB in waiting. I don't think we have the money to steal Denver's QB in waiting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted January 6, 2016 Report Share Posted January 6, 2016 That's what I'm afraid of, actually. Someone "popping" between now and the draft shows us what? That's where my dilemma is. I was more thinking of someone you've not yet seen/looked hard at as yet. Assumed you had a life... I just want to see the Browns usual carousel of fire staff, get a QB, fail, rinse, repeat, to just fucking stop. Draft a difference maker on D. I think Bosa looks to be that guy. Look for a QB later or pay the money to steal Denver's QB in waiting. Not really feeling the Brockweiller... plus as bb pointed out no better place for the wheel to stop than on the right QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LBC mike Posted January 6, 2016 Report Share Posted January 6, 2016 I have seen that we have the 32nd pick? Did i miss something Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Couch Pulls Out Posted January 6, 2016 Report Share Posted January 6, 2016 I was more thinking of someone you've not yet seen/looked hard at as yet. Assumed you had a life... Not really feeling the Brockweiller... plus as bb pointed out no better place for the wheel to stop than on the right QB. Oh. That's a possibility. I haven't watched much defensive game tape outside of the usual suspects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheOllieC Posted January 6, 2016 Report Share Posted January 6, 2016 I have seen that we have the 32nd pick? Did i miss something Correct. Browns would've had #33, but New England had to forfeit their 1st rounder so the Browns slide up a spot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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