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The Quran - how is it that the world has such mass violence based on it?


calfoxwc

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The Quran contains at least 109 verses that call Muslims to war with nonbelievers for the sake of Islamic rule. Some are quite graphic, with commands to chop off heads and fingers and kill infidels wherever they may be hiding. Muslims who do not join the fight are called 'hypocrites' and warned that Allah will send them to Hell if they do not join the slaughter.

Unlike nearly all of the Old Testament verses of violence, the verses of violence in the Quran are mostly open-ended, meaning that they are not restrained by the historical context of the surrounding text. They are part of the eternal, unchanging word of Allah, and just as relevant or subjective as anything else in the Quran.

Most of today's Muslims exercise a personal choice to interpret their holy book's many calls to violence according to what their own moral preconceptions find justificable. Apologists cater to their preferences with tenuous arguments that gloss over historical fact and generally do not stand up to scrutiny. Still, it is important to note that the problem is not bad people, but bad ideology.

Unfortunately, there are very few verses of tolerance and peace to abrogate or even balance out the many that call for nonbelievers to be fought and subdued until they either accept humiliation, convert to Islam, or are killed. Muhammad's own martial legacy - and that of his companions - along with the remarkable stress on violence found in the Quran have produced a trail of blood and tears across world history.

 

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/quran/023-violence.htm

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The Quran contains at least 109 verses that call Muslims to war with nonbelievers for the sake of Islamic rule. Some are quite graphic, with commands to chop off heads and fingers and kill infidels wherever they may be hiding. Muslims who do not join the fight are called 'hypocrites' and warned that Allah will send them to Hell if they do not join the slaughter.

Unlike nearly all of the Old Testament verses of violence, the verses of violence in the Quran are mostly open-ended, meaning that they are not restrained by the historical context of the surrounding text. They are part of the eternal, unchanging word of Allah, and just as relevant or subjective as anything else in the Quran.

Most of today's Muslims exercise a personal choice to interpret their holy book's many calls to violence according to what their own moral preconceptions find justificable. Apologists cater to their preferences with tenuous arguments that gloss over historical fact and generally do not stand up to scrutiny. Still, it is important to note that the problem is not bad people, but bad ideology.

Unfortunately, there are very few verses of tolerance and peace to abrogate or even balance out the many that call for nonbelievers to be fought and subdued until they either accept humiliation, convert to Islam, or are killed. Muhammad's own martial legacy - and that of his companions - along with the remarkable stress on violence found in the Quran have produced a trail of blood and tears across world history.

 

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/quran/023-violence.htm

 

First, that's a perversion of actual Muslim belief being used by a website that is known for it's anti-Muslim agenda. Muslims do believe the Quran's text is eternal and unchanging. The verses about war ARE in fact historical and restrained by historical context. Your source is flat-out wrong on that, and they are conflating the fact that Muslims believe the Quran text to be eternal with the deliberate misrepresentation of historical text as commandment to Muslims.

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First, that's a perversion of actual Muslim belief being used by a website that is known for it's anti-Muslim agenda. Muslims do believe the Quran's text is eternal and unchanging. The verses about war ARE in fact historical and restrained by historical context. Your source is flat-out wrong on that, and they are conflating the fact that Muslims believe the Quran text to be eternal with the deliberate misrepresentation of historical text as commandment to Muslims.

 

Speaking the truth does not make one anti Muslim or anti anything. The fact of the matter is we have a huge problem with global terrorism coming from one religion who are not screaming about Moses or Jesus but shouting Allah Akbar as they murder innocent people. The fact is they rely on those koran verses for their justification for which many verses are open ended and that is why they are being used today by Islamic radicals.

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OBF, please help me here. We've spoken many times about how the old testament is full of violence like the quran, but that's all ok because jesus came along and told everyone to forget it, just love everyone (except the gays apparently).

 

1) Since judaism is basically old testament christianity, why aren't there so many jews committing acts of terrorism?

2) What specifically does jesus say about forgetting the old testament?

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First, that's a perversion of actual Muslim belief being used by a website that is known for it's anti-Muslim agenda. Muslims do believe the Quran's text is eternal and unchanging. The verses about war ARE in fact historical and restrained by historical context. Your source is flat-out wrong on that, and they are conflating the fact that Muslims believe the Quran text to be eternal with the deliberate misrepresentation of historical text as commandment to Muslims.

Os, what is the punishment for apostasy in Islam?

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A moment of your time for this, please, gentlemen:

The financial chief of so-called Islamic State has been killed in an air strike by the US-led coalition, a US military spokesman has said.

Abu Salah and two other senior leaders were killed in the strikes...

 

 

 

 

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-35064400

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OBF, please help me here. We've spoken many times about how the old testament is full of violence like the quran, but that's all ok because jesus came along and told everyone to forget it, just love everyone (except the gays apparently).

 

1) Since judaism is basically old testament christianity, why aren't there so many jews committing acts of terrorism?

2) What specifically does jesus say about forgetting the old testament?

 

The new covenant has it's roots in Judaism but the covenant itself is far better. Jesus Himself being the sacrifice and going from a covenant of the law (which nobody could keep) to a covenant of grace (unmerited favor). The Old Covenant made the Jews servants of Jehovah while the new covenant makes believers sons and daughters.

 

When the Jews left Egypt they were in real danger of being wiped out and if God was not with them I believe they would have gotten wiped out (quickly). These were not a bunch of warriors leaving Egypt but a bunch of slaves with slave attitudes and enough complaining to drive Moses crazy. If I take God at His word the reason Israel was to kill all the inhabitants of cities they were to live in was that if they did not the people they left alive would lead them astray. Israel did not kill all the inhabitants and those left behind did lead Israel astray as God said they would. These verses of violence were targeted at cities where Israel was to live. They were not open ended or spoke of killing Gentiles where they were found. The Jews today are focused on the small piece of land they have and not world domination.

 

We believe right at the beginning of Genesis where God says "let us make man in our image" that is the trinity speaking. Father, Son and Holy Spirit. There can be no other reason I can think of why God is speaking of Himself in plural terms. Also when Moses asked God to tell him who is sending him to Pharoah Moses was told just to say the "I Am" is sending him. At least 10 times in the gospel of John, Jesus declares Himself to be the "I AM" who spoke to Moses.

 

What Does the Bible Say About the Old Testament Law?

http://www.christianbiblereference.org/faq_OldTestamentLaw.htm

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Os, what is the punishment for apostasy in Islam?

 

The Quran does not describe a punishment for apostasy. This is what the Quran says about apostasy:

 

"There is no compulsion in religion (2:256)"

 

"Let him who will believe and let him who will disbelieve (18:29)."

 

"So if they submit, then indeed they follow the right way; and if they turn back, then upon you is only the delivery of the message...(3:20)."

 

"Obey Allah and obey the Messenger and be cautious. But if you turn back then know that the duty of Our Messenger is only a clear deliverance of the message (5:92)."

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The Quran does not describe a punishment for apostasy. This is what the Quran says about apostasy:

 

"There is no compulsion in religion (2:256)"

 

"Let him who will believe and let him who will disbelieve (18:29)."

 

"So if they submit, then indeed they follow the right way; and if they turn back, then upon you is only the delivery of the message...(3:20)."

 

"Obey Allah and obey the Messenger and be cautious. But if you turn back then know that the duty of Our Messenger is only a clear deliverance of the message (5:92)."

That sounds kinda...threateny?

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Here's what I think -

 

"Now you are asking the right question. Now ask, if both the Bible and Quran contain violent verses that when taken out of context can seem to promote violence, why is there more terrorism in the name of Islam than in the name of Christianity?" Chris

******************************

"more" ??? as in, millions and millions, compared to nearly zero?

 

I also think the difference is... that Jesus died for us on the Cross. We don't have to work our way to Heaven,

it's impossible anyways. All we have to do, is know He died for us, and accept the grace gift of salvation...

and repent.

 

As I surely misunderstand it, I suppose, Islam requires fierce compliance to Islam law. It's all about works.

 

So, there may be harsh violence in the Bible, note - primarily the New Testament.... but it was superceded

by the life and sacrifice in his own death - once and for all - wiped all that out. It's free..eternal life.

 

Now, if Islam permament requires works, then, the mass violence throughout? the koran,

is still a viable option for those extremists who have nothing else left to lose.

 

I also think, that the worldwide problem of suicides -

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1414751/

 

is indicative of a part of the extremist way out of this world.

 

As a Christian, for example, suicide is a sin. As an extremist "Islam" terrorist, it is

glorified in jihad...

 

perhaps this is why it is happening with the extremists. They are suicidal anyway, and

a glorified, funded to your family way out.

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I love when I get an opportunity like this

 

Deuteronomy 13:1-10

 

 

If a prophet, or one who foretells by dreams, appears among you and announces to you a sign or wonder, 2 and if the sign or wonder spoken of takes place, and the prophet says, “Let us follow other gods” (gods you have not known) “and let us worship them,” 3 you must not listen to the words of that prophet or dreamer. The Lord your God is testing you to find out whether you love him with all your heart and with all your soul. 4 It is the Lord your God you must follow, and him you must revere. Keep his commands and obey him; serve him and hold fast to him. 5 That prophet or dreamer must be put to deathfor inciting rebellion against the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt and redeemed you from the land of slavery. That prophet or dreamer tried to turn you from the way the Lord your God commanded you to follow. You must purge the evil from among you.

6 If your very own brother, or your son or daughter, or the wife you love, or your closest friend secretly entices you, saying, “Let us go and worship other gods” (gods that neither you nor your ancestors have known, 7 gods of the peoples around you, whether near or far, from one end of the land to the other), 8 do not yield to them or listen to them. Show them no pity. Do not spare them or shield them. 9 You must certainly put them to death. Your handmust be the first in putting them to death, and then the hands of all the people. 10 Stone them to death, because they tried to turn you away from theLord your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery.

 

If your son converts to another religion, it's your duty to put him to death. (by stoning, you throw the first one though)

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I love when I get an opportunity like this

 

Deuteronomy 13:1-10

 

 

If your son converts to another religion, it's your duty to put them to death.

Oh the old testament before the hippy son showed up and mellowed everything out?

 

That is cool. Show me the new version of the Quran where Muhammad has a hippy kid who tells people not to be so stabby.

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Deuteronomy is the old testament. We've already established this.

 

So is that the earth was created in 6 days.

 

And what about the Jews?

 

Christians gave the sword to apostates and heretics for a loooooooong period of time in our past too.

 

You can talk about how evil the Quran is and say all these things, but people should probably realize that it's not that much different in the Hebrew scriptures.

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Oh the old testament before the hippy son showed up and mellowed everything out?

 

That is cool. Show me the new version of the Quran where Muhammad has a hippy kid who tells people not to be so stabby.

 

So we can just ignore the entire Old Testament then?

 

Or is it ok to keep selectively ignoring it? Which Christian denomination does that?

 

Christians tend to use modern day common sense, morality, culture norms to realize that they shouldn't kill non-believers and cut the hands off of thiefs and such. How come Muslims can't do the same thing? (Hint: they do)

 

And you talk "context" You definitely don't know the context of the Quran passages you talk about - and likely not the biblical ones you talk about either.

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Ya, that doesn't count now... Or something

 

 

Exactly moron, it doesn't count. Only in Islam. For the most part Old Testament shit such as stoning is not taken literally, whereas in the Koran it is.

 

There are no Christian women being stoned for adultery...unless the ones doing the stoning are Muslims.

 

Get it?

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