tinythinker Posted December 12, 2015 Report Share Posted December 12, 2015 When you’ve lost 15 of 17 games by an average of two touchdowns, you’re not close. A tortured franchise that’s made one playoff appearance in 17 years since returning to Cleveland might be further away than ever. Start with who’s making money. Eight of the Browns’ 10 highest-paid players in average per year were born in 1985 or earlier. APY is an imperfect metric, but if most of your top earners are in their 30s, you better be winning now, because decline isn’t far off. Part of the issue is the Browns are multiple regimes removed from the guys who ran drafts in 2011 and ’12, i.e. the players who should be getting paid on second contracts now. No draft picks are left from 2011 and just three from 2012 – none among the team’s three first-rounders. That helps explain why they’re perennially among the NFL leaders in cap space, with more than $19 million as of Thursday morning. They needed to spend cash this year to get to the required minimum. But there are smarter ways to do it than, say, giving 31-year-old possession receiver Dwayne Bowe $9 million in guarantees to sit on the bench. http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/2015/12/10/cleveland-browns-mike-pettine-ray-farmer-johnny-manziel/77113194/ What do you think? What does the article get right/wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
medicineman Posted December 12, 2015 Report Share Posted December 12, 2015 It don't matter. We will draft guys and rather they are decent or not a new coach will show up and want to get "his guys" in there that he got from the draft. And add to the fact we do this every other year. This team does not deserve our money but yet we spend it any way every year we get political promises but the outcome is the same with a 4 and 12 record but this year we mite not even get 3 wins. Let's face it boys we are the laughing stock of the NFL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForeverCleveland Posted December 12, 2015 Report Share Posted December 12, 2015 Another thing is that the Browns are in the toughest division in football, no other team has to deal with having three other playoff/wildcard ready teams every year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kvoethe Posted December 13, 2015 Report Share Posted December 13, 2015 This from NFL.com Browns head coach Mike Pettine hinted at some discord between the front office and coaching staff a week ago, but just how bad has it gotten? Per NFL Media Insider Ian Rapoport, the coaching staff does not think the scouting department provided them with nearly enough ammo to run the game plan. The scouting department, on the other hand, does not think the coaching staff is making enough in-game changes to utilize the players properly. The result? Per Rapoport, it is "unfathomable" to think both Pettine and general manager Ray Farmer will be back together next year. At this point, it's obvious. The Browns are again broken and while many times the smartest football people will advocate for patience -- look at the rise of the Panthers, Bengals, Texans and even Jaguars -- the Browns are continuously trying to operate through a smog. If there is this much pent up anger between both sides, it would be almost impossible to reach a consensus and with a draft right around the corner, the time should be now to make a move. This team almost had another two first-round picks, but could still very well end up with the No. 1 overall pick in the 2016 draft. These are crucial, irreversible decisions that will impact the franchise for decades. Nobody is without fault here. On the field, Pettine's teams have lost 15 of their last 17 games. His on-field decisions have been puzzling at times and the hard-nosed, defensive mentality he promised the fans of Cleveland has yet to arrive. A rotating cast of promising power backs have come and gone, many of whom are backing up on other teams at the moment. Farmer signed the draft card on Justin Gilbert. At the the moment, he appears to have blown two consecutive drafts with two first-round picks, an unbelievable opportunity for a general manager to turn around the fate of the franchise. Instead of having Khalil Mack or Derek Carr or Sammy Watkins or Odell Beckham or, really, anyone from the first round of that loaded draft, the Browns have very little. If the coach and general manager can't agree philosophically on the team's direction, someone -- or both -- have got to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Opal312 Posted December 14, 2015 Report Share Posted December 14, 2015 Some of the lesser known names he passed on: Allen Robinson & Allen Hurns-Jaquars Both are playing at a very high level. Bortles has 30 Touchdowns thru 14 weeks and these guys are why. Then there's Running backs: Thomas Rawls, Buck Allen, Jeremy Langford and etc who are filling in for injured starters. Defensive players we had right in our pocket and took a pass for Gilbert. These type of mistakes are lethal in the NFL. The worst part is not showing up at pro days and combines. The scouting is lacking! Even I knew to take Mack or Carr or both! What do we have from the 2014 draft? Very little. Farmer has his head some place besides evaluating talent. That's for sure. And when he lets half the defense go in free agency, and signs old guys in their waning years it makes you angry! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miktoxic Posted December 14, 2015 Report Share Posted December 14, 2015 shhhhh! they won the game and everyone is on god-level status again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballpeen Posted December 14, 2015 Report Share Posted December 14, 2015 shhhhh! they won the game and everyone is on god-level status again. I don't see that Mic. Don't forget, you are supposed to enjoy a win. Right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted December 14, 2015 Report Share Posted December 14, 2015 Enjoy a win? Sure... but not base your total team view and needs assessment upon it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D Bone Posted December 14, 2015 Report Share Posted December 14, 2015 Enjoyed the win, but a single win vs a very bad team doesn't change what's going to happen on Black Monday. I don't know which heads are going to roll, but rest assured, head(s) will roll. The swings and misses on the 1st round alone are unforgivable, and are beyond cause for termination......... Factor in Bowe and Text Gate, and I believe I have an idea which head will fall into the bucket. When all is said and done, it's an absolute embarrassment what this organization did with 4 total 1st round picks - 2 picks in back-to-back years no less. Whoever is responsible, set the franchise back for many years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miktoxic Posted December 14, 2015 Report Share Posted December 14, 2015 I don't see that Mic. Don't forget, you are supposed to enjoy a win. Right? i should have put that in pink. i enjoy wins more than most on this board. when people constantly try to find something to make themselves upset...........i'm the other guy who tries to find good in everything (even if it's an ex who took you to the cleaners for 500k+ but she's the mother of your kids). yeah that's me. mr. sunshine!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted December 14, 2015 Report Share Posted December 14, 2015 The Browns aren't anywhere near being the biggest overhaul. There are many teams who need to fix their offensive and defensive lines, in addition to having other weaknesses. The Browns don't have elite playmakers on offense - except for Barnidge, and maybe Travis. They have a few cbs who may very well come into their own, and be very, very good. I wasn't thinkin of Gilbert when I just said that.... We just have to draft a qb with our first pick in the draft....but I'm only saying that to make Canton Mike spit out his coffee and call me to yell at me....lol... I believe, still, that the coaches have made some changes in how they are doing things. We'll see the next couple of games. If Tour is right, and they haven't... well, it will be ugly the rest of the season. The players have played very tough and hard all season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted December 14, 2015 Report Share Posted December 14, 2015 Wait... What? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted December 15, 2015 Report Share Posted December 15, 2015 Yes, I was rambling.... the Browns don't need a major overhaul of their oline and dline like plenty of other teams do. That means the Browns don't have to have a major overhaul...but they do need some playmakers on offense at wr. That make more sense? lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jiggins7919 Posted December 15, 2015 Report Share Posted December 15, 2015 Yeah, a huge overhaul is certainly possible, but I like to think that a small one can happen to. New OL coach, new defensive coordinator, and new GM. Well, that's not exactly small, but whatever. LOL. And I know every team can play the "what if game", but we have some intriguing "what ifs" of our own. What if Josh Gordon can be the guy we hope he is? What if Ekpre-Olomu emmerges as a serious player? What if Johnny continues to progress and McCown comes back as the backup? Those are just a few, but our team could look completely different with just a few things going our way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickers Posted December 15, 2015 Report Share Posted December 15, 2015 Here's the reality... The team is starting over. Weather or not . if you like it.. or do not.. We are starting over.. I agree that Pet and Farmer cant co-exist. So I dont think the next GM wants Pet as his coach. Personally.. I think they both blow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted December 15, 2015 Report Share Posted December 15, 2015 Why is it a given that Pet and Farmer cannot co-exist? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted December 15, 2015 Report Share Posted December 15, 2015 Why is it a given that Pet and Farmer cannot co-exist? Who knows, who cares.....they have co-existed together for a mutual end: To have the Browns suck. Mission Accomplished. Now get rid of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted December 15, 2015 Report Share Posted December 15, 2015 Cares? Besides me? Maybe the guy who was a proponent of installing a POFO? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickers Posted December 15, 2015 Report Share Posted December 15, 2015 Why is it a given that Pet and Farmer cannot co-exist? Well.. If you believe some reports... That Pet and Farmer have "Issues".. Then it makes sense not to keep them together..Pet was not Farmers choice to start with..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted December 15, 2015 Report Share Posted December 15, 2015 Cares? Besides me? Maybe the guy who was a proponent of installing a POFO? Yea, we need a POFO......and one who probably also care whether or not these two can get along....as one or both would be gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richiswhere Posted December 15, 2015 Report Share Posted December 15, 2015 Well.. If you believe some reports... That Pet and Farmer have "Issues".. Then it makes sense not to keep them together..Pet was not Farmers choice to start with..... but he was Haslem choice and no one else's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Go 'Losers Posted December 16, 2015 Report Share Posted December 16, 2015 In a nutshell this article explains why the Browns will never win...until it stops hitting the RESET BUTTON every other year. This clip from Mike & Mike on ESPN says it perfectly -----> http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=14311216 This state the Browns have been in since 1999 is not a player issue, IT"S THE WHOLE DAMN FRANCHISE. Three different owners who weren't equipped enough to manage a Burger King, 7 different GMs, 8 Head Coaches, 24 starting quarterbacks....Dear God!!! And people wonder why we can't get to .500, why we can't beat Pittsburgh. Newsflash: the Steelers are worlds apart on how to run a successful sports franchise, so are Baltimore and Cincinnati. So when people ask when will things start changing for the Browns my response is...When things stop changing with the Browns (i.e. consistency) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasAg1969 Posted December 16, 2015 Report Share Posted December 16, 2015 http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2015/12/michael_reghi_is_riled_up_abou_6.html#incart_story_package Along that same line of a disconnect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyingfooldoug Posted December 16, 2015 Report Share Posted December 16, 2015 but he was Haslem choice and no one else's Wasn't Farmer assistant GM when Pettine was hired? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unsympathetic Posted December 16, 2015 Report Share Posted December 16, 2015 I think Gordon gets it. Gordon for All-Pro 2016. I really don't think anyone who's an out-of-control partyer would do anything that link presents.. In poker, that's a tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted December 16, 2015 Report Share Posted December 16, 2015 In a nutshell this article explains why the Browns will never win...until it stops hitting the RESET BUTTON every other year. This clip from Mike & Mike on ESPN says it perfectly -----> http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=14311216 This state the Browns have been in since 1999 is not a player issue, IT"S THE WHOLE DAMN FRANCHISE. Three different owners who weren't equipped enough to manage a Burger King, 7 different GMs, 8 Head Coaches, 24 starting quarterbacks....Dear God!!! And people wonder why we can't get to .500, why we can't beat Pittsburgh. Newsflash: the Steelers are worlds apart on how to run a successful sports franchise, so are Baltimore and Cincinnati. So when people ask when will things start changing for the Browns my response is...When things stop changing with the Browns (i.e. consistency) So......your way is to stick with guys that are totally inept in their jobs. Check. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted December 16, 2015 Report Share Posted December 16, 2015 Yea, we need a POFO......and one who probably also care whether or not these two can get along....as one or both would be gone. Or he'd mediate their disagreements thus ensuring communication is occurring and use their competitiveness to advantage. The idea that people who do not "get along" can't work together is ludicrous. Add that the source of the tension is the disappointment of their combined output and each has a stake in the perception of that combined result, and the strain is understandable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted December 16, 2015 Report Share Posted December 16, 2015 Or he'd mediate their disagreements thus ensuring communication is occurring and use their competitiveness to advantage. Sure....he would do that....if he kept both guys on....but I would not really see that happening if a POFO were hired. The idea that people who do not "get along" can't work together is ludicrous. I agree.....and I don't think that these guys "not getting along" is the reason this team has done poorly. They could have been singing Kumbaya together and still done very poorly. Add that the source of the tension is the disappointment of their combined output and each has a stake in the perception of that combined result, and the strain is understandable. If they had won more games....they would have reduced the strain. Games were not won because of their poor personnel choices and poor coaching tactics.....not because they didn't get along. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Go 'Losers Posted December 16, 2015 Report Share Posted December 16, 2015 So......your way is to stick with guys that are totally inept in their jobs. Check. That's like arguing if the chicken or the egg came first. How do we even know about these guys when the Browns never give them a chance to develop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyingfooldoug Posted December 17, 2015 Report Share Posted December 17, 2015 That's like arguing if the chicken or the egg came first. How do we even know about these guys when the Browns never give them a chance to develop. No argument...it was the rooster! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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