Clinton says Isis uses Trump in recruiting videos, but Isis actually uses Bill Clinton and Obama

[Westside Steve]

 

Because I have one and it doesn't cost me a fortune.

 

Many don't have one or can't afford one - I'd like to see us just fix the health care system once and for all.

Many are dolts don't see Healthcare as a valuable commodity.

And I guarantee you somebody's paying a fortune for it.

 

WSS

[OldBrownsFan]

Yep. Health care should be a right guaranteed to citizens and not a privilege.

 

Coming from a guy who works for one of the best companies in Cleveland (many probably consider it the best) and my health care options are virtually better than everybody else's. I can choose between a couple HSA plans where they match contributions, PPO plan, etc. All relatively cheap on my end.

 

I definitely support universal health care

 

You have any concerns with the "Cadillac Tax" in Obamacare?

 

Obamacare ‘Cadillac tax’ to hit 1 in 4 employers that offer health care benefits

 

 

Obamacare’s “Cadillac tax” will hit one in four employers that offer health care benefits, a leading industry analyst says in a report being released Tuesday, socking companies with a massive levy that Republicans and Democrats on Capitol Hill say is unfair to those who have negotiated high-quality plans as part of their jobs.

The Kaiser Family Foundation estimates that 26 percent of companies will be affected by the tax when it takes effect in 2018 and 42 percent of employers will be paying the levy a decade later, signaling just how quickly health care costs are expected to rise — and how valuable the Cadillac plans are.

Kaiser said some employers probably will cut back on the scope of their plans to duck the tax, resulting in coverage with higher deductibles or networks with fewer doctors.

 

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/aug/25/obamacare-cadillac-tax-to-hit-1-in-4-employers-tha/?page=all

[bbedward]

 

You have any concerns with the "Cadillac Tax" in Obamacare?

Obamacare Cadillac tax to hit 1 in 4 employers that offer health care benefits

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/aug/25/obamacare-cadillac-tax-to-hit-1-in-4-employers-tha/?page=all

Cruz and Carson have called for tax cuts that call to cut all deductions employers receive for offering health care.

 

I'm in favor of revamping the entire system though, to do that you get rid of Obama Care.

 

I mean we have countries like the UK with universal health care and we still spend 3x more per capita on our system.

 

The private health care sector has been broken for so long, I think it's time to go public. Coming up with fixes big pharma and for profit health institutions may help with the cost.

[gftChris]

FWIW, in the UK we pay 'national insurance' at about 12% of gross income, past a tax-free threshold (it's staggered slightly, but it's about there) - average salary is about £26, so NI contributions are a little over £2k per year. That's used to pay for:

 

The NHS

Pensions

Welfare/social security

Maternity/paternity leave

Other benefits (sick pay, bereavement pay etc)

 

I'm not sure what the premiums are over there, but my dad and uncle (who was living in the US at the time) compared, and the contribution was about the same, whether UK national insurance, or US private health insurance.

 

The only difference is, in the UK everyone is covered, and the rich pay a little more, while the poor pay less/nothing.

[Westside Steve]

Well this week I will send a check to my health insurance company for approximately 9 grand for a year of coverage.

It doesn't cover eyeglasses or dental.

WSS

[gftChris]

Ouch. Yeah, all that's covered here. On the list of "things you can't live without and therefore are a basic human right" health is right up the top.

[gftChris]

The trouble with asking people to pay individually is that you're typically asking the people who are unable to earn as much because of illness/injury to pay more because of the illness/injury. For 90% it'd make no difference, to 1% it'd make a difference in money paid out; for 9% it'd almost make the difference between life and death, or at least poverty and dignity.

 

When I see a member of my (extended) family raising money on kickstarter to have an operation to save his life, I can't help but think something's gone wrong there.

[Westside Steve]

Ouch. Yeah, all that's covered here. On the list of "things you can't live without and therefore are a basic human right" health is right up the top.

Well, and this is and honest response, the way I look at it is that somebody has to have more education and training than just about any other profession in the world and I'm trusting my wellbeing to him. I think that's a very valuable service. I think it's worth money.

It might even be more valuable than a seven foot tall illiterate throwing a ball through a hoop or a bimbo with a big set of tits reading a cue card.

 

When it's free people get the idea that it isn't as valuable as it really is.

 

WSS

[gftChris]

I don't disagree that it's a valuable service, I just disagree that your health care should be linked to your income.

[Westside Steve]

I don't disagree that it's a valuable service, I just disagree that your health care should be linked to your income.

Don't misunderstand, I have no problem putting my toe in the socialism pool I just think that everyone who has skin in the game should pay something. I'm very happy with my service and my 750 plus dollars a month buys me what I think is seriously the best healthcare in the world. I make well over the limit for getting a subsidy and I'm grateful for that.

 

Even the poorest people should have to scrape something together.

 

WSS

[bbedward]

Don't misunderstand, I have no problem putting my toe in the socialism pool I just think that everyone who has skin in the game should pay something. I'm very happy with my service and my 750 plus dollars a month buys me what I think is seriously the best healthcare in the world. I make well over the limit for getting a subsidy and I'm grateful for that.

 

Even the poorest people should have to scrape something together.

 

WSS

In a public system everybody would pay in the form of taxes anyway. Lots of people would probably end up paying less really.

[gftChris]

I generally disagree there. If you're so poor you can barely eat, keep the lights on and travel to work, you shouldn't also be worried about if you get sick or injured. Especially since as I understand it there's no statutory sick pay over there, right?

[bbedward]

I generally disagree there. If you're so poor you can barely eat, keep the lights on and travel to work, you shouldn't also be worried about if you get sick or injured. Especially since as I understand it there's no statutory sick pay over there, right?

 

No sick pay, no maternity leave.

 

Some states may mandate it, not sure. By far and large most of the time it's up to the employer to provide that (if they choose to)

 

I don't like the argument "well if you work hard then this wouldn't be a problem." Lots of people work hard, but that doesn't mean they're well off and can afford to miss time at work or pay for health care without assistance.

[Furious Styles]

Poll: More conservatives than liberals

 

http://www.politico.com/story/2012/01/poll-conservatives-still-rule-071385

Conservatives outnumber liberals in 47 states

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/govbeat/wp/2014/01/31/conservatives-outnumber-liberals-in-47-states/

Must be my imagination then that a bi-racial liberal kenyan born muslim president got elected TWICE ! I mean, but hey, you got the numbers right there.

[OldBrownsFan]

Must be my imagination then that a bi-racial liberal kenyan born muslim president got elected TWICE ! I mean, but hey, you got the numbers right there.

 

Does everyone vote on election day or a percentage of the population vote? The poll results simply are what they are and that is more people identify with being conservative over being liberal.

[Clevfan4life]

old school conservatism is dying. There's lots of people in the middle that will lean right if/when the republican party joins the 21st century and gives up this old testament rhetoric on all things life. I'm predicting now we dont' see another republican president until they run a moderate. This country is done with far right republicans. NO republican will ever see the white house who carries the notion that women subjected to a brutal gang rape must still carry through with the pregnancy if they become pregnant from the rape. We're just not that conservative. I also predict that the lefties will pull too far to the left soon and the country gives them a check and says "we're not that far left either".

[OldBrownsFan]

old school conservatism is dying. There's lots of people in the middle that will lean right if/when the republican party joins the 21st century and gives up this old testament rhetoric on all things life. I'm predicting now we dont' see another republican president until they run a moderate. This country is done with far right republicans. NO republican will ever see the white house who carries the notion that women subjected to a brutal gang rape must still carry through with the pregnancy if they become pregnant from the rape. We're just not that conservative. I also predict that the lefties will pull too far to the left soon and the country gives them a check and says "we're not that far left either".

 

Who are all the far right candidates the GOP has been running for president? Bob Dole, John McCain and Mitt Romney are all moderates in the party and all lost. I would put Bush as conservative and he won two elections, the same way with another conservative Ronald Reagan.

[bbedward]

 

Who are all the far right candidates the GOP has been running for president? Bob Dole, John McCain and Mitt Romney are all moderates in the party and all lost. I would put Bush as conservative and he won two elections, the same way with another conservative Ronald Reagan.

 

Ronald Reagan and George W Bush were moderates by today's standards.

 

Neither Reagan (as Governor of CA and President) or Bush (as president) pushed pro-life legislation (as cle was using as an example).

 

Referring to abortion, you have guys like Ted Cruz who says the mother should die before she gets an abortion and giving praise to a guy who has encouraged terrorist attacks on abortion clinics for several years (Troy Newman)

 

It's pretty unanimously obvious that if you go to a college campus people are much more liberal or left-leaning moderate. Or even a high school for that matter.

 

Now consider that the young generation is growing - and every day there are more and more millenials that are eligible voters.

 

Consider the older generation is shrinking - and every day there are less and less old people that are voting. Soon enough, the baby boomers will start to dwindle too.

 

I think the younger generation could embrace a fiscally conservative viewpoint but maintain left on certain social issues and tone down the bible thumping rhetoric saying God after every sentence and using it to justify your intention to bomb the hell out of some country.

 

The country isn't going more left because of Obamao or whatever conservatives want to blame it on. It's going left because the population is going more left every day. Millennials are growing in number and getting old enough to vote (they still don't show up to vote, but when they do...). "Conservatives" are not willing to adapt to the 2015-2016 global mentality on several issues (Canada, virtually all of europe, many parts of Asia, Australia). If they manage to adapt and stop trying to go 20 years backwards on every major step forward socially in our country (like gay marriage) - then maybe they could win over more people and not go extinct in 30 years.

 

Or maybe Trump can save them. Trump is a no-good rotten liberal when it comes to several things - but pretty popular in conservative circles at the moment.

[Legacy Fan]

Well Hillary and Obama are pretty well known for blaming videos for all sorts of shit...

 

 

WSS

This was fantastic.

[Legacy Fan]

 

 

Lol

[Legacy Fan]

In a public system everybody would pay in the form of taxes anyway. Lots of people would probably end up paying less really.

not exactly.

And those who reimburse, determine the treatment - not the provider or the patient. In effect no different from what we currently have.

[OldBrownsFan]

Reagan and Bush were pro life and were able to win 2 terms. They still are considered conservatives and their pro life stands and other conservative views on social issues did not keep them from being elected and re-elected. The losers have been the moderates the republicans have put up as presidential candidates.

 

The funny thing about politics is that many who get indoctrinated with liberal ideology in schools and colleges tend to go conservative after they get out of school, get a job and get in the real world. Many of todays younger liberals are tomorrow's older conservatives. Even OBF was a died in the wool liberal when he first cast a vote for that democratic loser Jimmy Carter (Jimmy cured me of voting democrat). Winston Churchill once said if you are not a liberal at age 20 you don't have a heart and if you are not a conservative at age 40 you don't have a brain.

 

Then you come down to how many put social issues first when voting? Someone who might be pro choice will still vote for a pro life republican because of other issues such as the second amendment or fiscal issues or any number of reasons. If you want the perfect candidate who will agree on all your issues you probably have to look in the mirror.

 

Because we don't have 3 or 4 viable parties we have coalitions formed in the 2 parties. The democrats have the unions, the trial lawyers, and a host of others such as feminist groups, and other special interest groups. The republicans have their own coalitions of evangelical Christians, big business, second amendment groups and a number of other special interest groups. The republicans get millions of votes from evangelical Christians who are a big part of the republican base much as unions are a big part of the democratic base.

 

Many times the choices are to vote for the lesser of 2 evil parties. I am not happy with how much control big business and the chamber of commerce has in the republican party but I support them on social issues. I am with them as well on spending issues as 18 trillion in debt shows spending is out of control. However the republicans just passed a 1.1 trillion dollar spending bill giving Obama and the democrats everything and more. And that is a problem I have with the republican party right now. Their lack of commitment to stand on principals. Not standing on principals is going to cost this party more than anything else.

[Westside Steve]

I generally disagree there. If you're so poor you can barely eat, keep the lights on and travel to work, you shouldn't also be worried about if you get sick or injured. Especially since as I understand it there's no statutory sick pay over there, right?

That's not the situation were talking about at all. First of all I think the left like to promote a silly notion that there are people dying in the streets of starvation like the Congo. But for that fictitious guy who works hard then there is something he can pay for his insurance. I pay 750 bucks a month, I suppose he could come up with 20? 50? Just something so the guy feels like it's something he has a tiny bit of responsibility for. I know people on Medicaid who can somehow scrape up enough money for cable TV and a couple packs of cigarettes a day.

 

WSS

[The Cysko Kid]

I think there's a common misconception that young people have that says "I'm liberal now I'll always be liberal". Eleven years ago when I was 24 and voting for John Kerry I felt that same way. But now at 35 I consistently lean right. Nor because I've changed my stance on things like gay marriage which I support or climate change which we're undoubtably contributing to, but because I've personally witnessed so many people doing the wrong thing. Living the wrong way and crying about how life owes them more Nobody owes you anything. I refuse to vote for the party that coddles and panders to that mentality.

[Westside Steve]

I think there's a common misconception that young people have that says "I'm liberal now I'll always be liberal". Eleven years ago when I was 24 and voting for John Kerry I felt that same way. But now at 35 I consistently lean right. Nor because I've changed my stance on things like gay marriage which I support or climate change which we're undoubtably contributing to, but because I've personally witnessed so many people doing the wrong thing. Living the wrong way and crying about how life owes them more Nobody owes you anything. I refuse to vote for the party that coddles and panders to that mentality.

 

That's a pretty common metamorphosis.

 

WSS

[MLD Woody]

Liberal social issues become moderate and conservative social issues die out. Individuals keep the same social beliefs but how their beliefs are classified change. For the most part

 

Financial issues are another story, because a lot of young people don't have a family, house, high paying job, etc etc.

 

 

 

Allowing interracial marriage used to be liberal. Allowing women to vote used to be liberal.

 

Making weed legal is liberal now. Allowing gay marriage is liberal now. Jump ahead a decade and they'll be commonplace.

[LogicIsForSquares]

I generally disagree there. If you're so poor you can barely eat, keep the lights on and travel to work, you shouldn't also be worried about if you get sick or injured. Especially since as I understand it there's no statutory sick pay over there, right?

In the U.S., you already get food stamps, welfare, and medicaid (free healthcare) if you are that poor.

[The Cysko Kid]

Liberal social issues become moderate and conservative social issues die out. Individuals keep the same social beliefs but how their beliefs are classified change. For the most part

 

Financial issues are another story, because a lot of young people don't have a family, house, high paying job, etc etc.

 

 

 

Allowing interracial marriage used to be liberal. Allowing women to vote used to be liberal.

 

Making weed legal is liberal now. Allowing gay marriage is liberal now. Jump ahead a decade and they'll be commonplace.

Conservative is a term which only really applies to fiscal terms. Opposing gay marriage isn't conserving anything.

[The Cysko Kid]

It's possible to be both conservative and liberal. Fiscally I'm quite conservative both in my own finances and where public finances are concerned. Socially I'm mostly liberal. I'm no fan of abortion but you'd be hard pressed to find another issue I'm not partly to fully in favor of.

[MLD Woody]

It's possible to be both conservative and liberal. Fiscally I'm quite conservative both in my own finances and where public finances are concerned. Socially I'm mostly liberal. I'm no fan of abortion but you'd be hard pressed to find another issue I'm not partly to fully in favor of.

Right, that's fair. I just don't think the "people become conservative as they age" line is accurate.