Clinton says Isis uses Trump in recruiting videos, but Isis actually uses Bill Clinton and Obama

[Legacy Fan]

Yup.

 

Dental school is $400-600k. For 4 years. Loans and military.

[gftChris]

Yup.

 

Dental school is $400-600k. For 4 years. Loans and military.

Fuck me. That shit should be free, who on earth thought it was a good idea to charge that much?!

[bbedward]

I have a lot of aptitude so that's not entirely fair to say. There's not too many Steve Jobs and Bill Gates' in the world.

 

But still, it's pretty fucked up logic to say if you can't afford higher education just don't get it, or join the military, or get into insane amounts of debt.

[The Cysko Kid]

Why?

[The Cysko Kid]

The military is a great route and frankly I'd encourage anyone to do it. Not only do you get great training and much better loans for schooling but you get life lessons in the bargain.

[gftChris]

The military is a great route and frankly I'd encourage anyone to do it. Not only do you get great training and much better loans for schooling but you get life lessons in the bargain.

I'd never discourage anyone from doing it but having it as the only option is not good, and I think that's what Edward's saying.

[The Cysko Kid]

It's not the only option. You can pay for increasingly worthless school or you can get scholarships.

[The Cysko Kid]

Higher education is getting to the point where they're churning out ridiculous amounts of candidates for limited jobs. So in the future you're actually going to have to be good at a job again to get it. Hence aptitude.

[Westside Steve]

Hey boys you can buy a $10,000 Custom Shop Fender Stratocaster or an $8,000 handmade abalone articulated Larrivee acoustic guitar and if you don't practice, or don't have much ability, or are lazy, or an ass hole you probably aren't going to be a famous musician.

But if you work hard and have the aptitude you can do it with a Chinese knockoff.

 

WSS

[bbedward]

I am good at what I do, so there's that.

 

Getting a full-ride scholarship is not even practical outside of the top few %.

 

I had pell grant, a few other grants, and scholarships - but still have a lot of debt because I also needed loans.

 

So in your perfect America:

 

1.) If you're born rich you have the right to higher education and whatever you want.

2.) If you're born poor you either join the military, have "aptitude", rack up lots of debt, or become a tradesman.

 

I think I'll go to some local high schools and deliver a speech to the seniors. "If you're rich go to college. If you're not, then join the military, have aptitude, or become the rich guys plumber"

[The Cysko Kid]

Hey boys you can buy a $10,000 Custom Shop Fender Stratocaster or an $8,000 handmade abalone articulated Larrivee acoustic guitar and if you don't practice, or don't have much ability, or are lazy, or an ass hole you probably aren't going to be a famous musician.

But if you work hard and have the aptitude you can do it with a Chinese knockoff.

 

WSS

Steve gets it

[bbedward]

Frankly, I'll choose the path of most of the rest of the first-world.

 

I get health care regardless.

 

If I have decent aptitude (I mean, in the USA you need to have a 35 ACT and 4.0 GPA to secure a full ride anywhere - then lose it the first semester you drop behind a 3.5), I go to college tuition free.

 

I get loans to assist with the cost of living. Presuming I graduate and still don't have the financial means to pay them off - in 10 years, they're forgiven.

 

I can choose to join the military if I want to.

 

I can choose to become a tradesman if I want to

 

I can choose to start a business if I want to

 

---

 

This "just become a plumber or join the military" mentality is a flat out disgrace to the "American Dream." I intend to start a software business, but you can't just stop working to get it done - you have to live in the mean time until you can become self sustaining.

 

 

 

"life should be better and richer and fuller for everyone, with opportunity for each according to ability or achievement" regardless of social class or circumstances of birth."

 

We don't have that now. And the idea that people of lower class should just join the military or become plumbers is flat out disgusting to me.

[Westside Steve]

Or more accurately if you are a lazy piece of shit then you probably won't be the rich guy or his plumber.

And usually the plumber, who you seem to denigrate, often makes more money then the dick heads with a bachelor's degree they earned with those Pell Grants.

 

WSS

[The Cysko Kid]

You say "aptitude" I'm parenthesis as if being good at something isn't a real thing. As if just paying your way through school and doing the schoolwork makes you good at it.

[Westside Steve]

I would bet that most members of the Pro Football Hall of Fame did not receive any participation awards.

 

WSS

[bbedward]

Or more accurately if you are a lazy piece of shit then you probably won't be the rich guy or his plumber.

And usually the plumber, who you seem to denigrate, often makes more money then the dick heads with a bachelor's degree they earned with those Pell Grants.

 

WSS

I'm not denigrating the plumber at all.

 

But that's the career you want to force on people instead of fixing the public education system, and that isn't very American in my opinion.

[gftChris]

I'm not denigrating the plumber at all.

 

But that's the career you want to force on people instead of fixing the public education system, and that isn't very American in my opinion.

That's not who we are!

[The Cysko Kid]

I'd rather a guy with no schooling that can demonstrate the ability to do something that he bothered to learn through trial and error than the college graduate who says "well we did some c++ in programming class"

[The Cysko Kid]

Frankly, I'll choose the path of most of the rest of the first-world.

 

I get health care regardless.

 

If I have decent aptitude (I mean, in the USA you need to have a 35 ACT and 4.0 GPA to secure a full ride anywhere - then lose it the first semester you drop behind a 3.5), I go to college tuition free.

 

I get loans to assist with the cost of living. Presuming I graduate and still don't have the financial means to pay them off - in 10 years, they're forgiven.

 

I can choose to join the military if I want to.

 

I can choose to become a tradesman if I want to

 

I can choose to start a business if I want to

 

---

 

This "just become a plumber or join the military" mentality is a flat out disgrace to the "American Dream." I intend to start a software business, but you can't just stop working to get it done - you have to live in the mean time until you can become self sustaining.

 

 

We don't have that now. And the idea that people of lower class should just join the military or become plumbers is flat out disgusting to me.

That's because you're a douchebag that doesn't understand that being a plumber is a good job that earns good money for which there is high and constant demand.

[Westside Steve]

That's not who we are!

The Royal we?

 

WSS

[bbedward]

You say "aptitude" I'm parenthesis as if being good at something isn't a real thing. As if just paying your way through school and doing the schoolwork makes you good at it.

How many people are good mechanics - they just can't get up and open up their own shop one day.

 

Or good at design, they can't just get up and start a design shop.

 

I am good at what I do, very good actually. Lots of people are good at what they do and they aren't Steve Jobs either

 

You can't just be good at something and make a living off of it in the USA. It doesn't happen very often anymore.

[The Cysko Kid]

Skilled trades are rarely put out to pasture when software "engineers" and white collar workers are often "downsized"

[bbedward]

One, I explained my background as it is far beyond just taking C++ classes.

 

I did do internships and I've been actively involved in open source communities for years. I'm good at what I do, period.

 

And I don't doubt the value of trade careers, but I should be able to choose what I want to do for the rest of my life based on ability without being set back in crippling debt and such.

[The Cysko Kid]

Part of the problem here is we're feeding these people a line of bullshit that says "if you can't afford college to be a software engineer you're going to be poor". That jobs like being an electrician and being a plumber or an hvac guy or an elevator repairman are beneath them.

[The Cysko Kid]

One, I explained my background as it is far beyond just taking C++ classes.

 

I did do internships and I've been actively involved in open source communities for years. I'm good at what I do, period.

 

And I don't doubt the value of trade careers, but I should be able to choose what I want to do for the rest of my life based on ability without being set back in crippling debt and such.

I'm not talking about you eds. Jesus christ this whole dissertation has not been about you. Get over yourself.

[bbedward]

Part of the problem here is we're feeding these people a line of bullshit that says "if you can't afford college to be a software engineer you're going to be poor". That jobs like being an electrician and being a plumber or an hvac guy or an elevator repairman are beneath them.

I know the value of everything. But I wanted to be a software guy and I took the logical steps to get a career there.

 

You should be able to do whatever you want to do based on ability and achievement regardless of social class

 

Many people can't do it, and I was barely able to do it.

 

"If you were good, you could have been like Eric Schmidt, Bill Gates, or Steve Jobs"

 

That type of thinking just isn't based in reality , frankly.

[Westside Steve]

How many people are good mechanics - they just can't get up and open up their own shop one day.

 

Or good at design, they can't just get up and start a design shop.

 

I am good at what I do, very good actually. Lots of people are good at what they do and they aren't Steve Jobs either

 

You can't just be good at something and make a living off of it in the USA. It doesn't happen very often anymore.

You are crazy if you believe that. Millions of people are good at things and work companies without owning a company.

Steve Jobs probably has thousands of good programmers designers workers is etc making a living from Apple.

 

WSS

[The Cysko Kid]

You can be a good mechanic without a degree and make a lot of money fixing people's cars on your own. You don't need a liscense to work on cars

[The Cysko Kid]

I know the value of everything. But I wanted to be a software guy and I took the logical steps to get a career there.

 

You should be able to do whatever you want to do based on ability and achievement regardless of social class

 

Many people can't do it, and I was barely able to do it.

 

"If you were good, you could have been like Eric Schmidt, Bill Gates, or Steve Jobs"

 

That type of thinking just isn't based in reality , frankly.

Again this isn't about you. This is about the poor and how they could not be poor anymore.

[The Cysko Kid]

Horseshit eds. You could go get limited liability insurance and make a killing making house calls to fix people's computers.