Clevfan4life Posted January 2, 2016 Report Share Posted January 2, 2016 This defense is Rex Ryan's brain child. How would Mario not be 'mis-used' here as much as he's been in Buffalo? I initially thought the same thing too until I read an article earlier in the season about how Rex changed things. I'm not exactly sure what or how he's changed, but it's not Pettine's defense. Williams is not being used the same as he was when Buffalo was there. Frankly the defense they ran against us when we played them in preseason, is what they should have stuck with. They'd be a top defense. Rex is just weird. He tinkered too much and paid for it. Maybe he's got feet on his brain too much these days, who knows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted January 2, 2016 Report Share Posted January 2, 2016 Mario in last years Pettine defense instead of Kruger, that would have worked. Until I see otherwise i'm convinced Pettine tried to tinker cause he was desperately trying to figure out how to get some of these bums to produce. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted January 2, 2016 Report Share Posted January 2, 2016 If the exact same defense trots out next year, to more or less the same results....than yeah i'm done with Pettine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wargograw Posted January 2, 2016 Report Share Posted January 2, 2016 Another elite player we shouldn't sign because he's not a choir boy. When does it end? Yeah, take him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted January 2, 2016 Report Share Posted January 2, 2016 This defense is Rex Ryan's brain child. I initially thought the same thing too until I read an article earlier in the season about how Rex changed things. I'm not exactly sure what or how he's changed, but it's not Pettine's defense Right.....everything Ive read and understood is that Pettine has his own Defense, which grew out of working in Rexy's system.....so, both have a multiple front basis, but are not the same systems as a whole...... Clearly, Pettine had MUCH more success in his year with the Buffalo D than Rexy did.... Here is an excellent article from when Pet was hired, spelling out how he used the talent in Buffalo and how his D would be applied to the personnel here...... http://www.dawgsbynature.com/2014/2/20/5428416/mike-pettines-2013-buffalo-bills-defense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LBC mike Posted January 2, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 2, 2016 If we fire pettine we wont hire anyone an time soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiamat63 Posted January 2, 2016 Report Share Posted January 2, 2016 Right.....everything Ive read and understood is that Pettine has his own Defense, which grew out of working in Rexy's system.....so, both have a multiple front basis, but are not the same systems as a whole...... Clearly, Pettine had MUCH more success in his year with the Buffalo D than Rexy did.... Here is an excellent article from when Pet was hired, spelling out how he used the talent in Buffalo and how his D would be applied to the personnel here...... http://www.dawgsbynature.com/2014/2/20/5428416/mike-pettines-2013-buffalo-bills-defense I've already read that article. In fact, I believe I gave a breakdown on those assignments sometime last year when I joined the board? I also expressed my concerns some of those fronts had with stopping the run against unbalanced formations and how difficult some of the complex assignments were for younger players especially at linebacker. edit: As for the 'differences' in Pettine and Rexy's assignments. To my knowledge, Rexy runs a system similar to the under. One problem is that having both Jerry Hughes and Mario Williams is making neither a dominant pass rusher. You can have williams with his hand in the ground in a 7-9 look which gives him tons of room to work off the edge - however you have a capable pass rusher on the other side of the ball who is being asked to drop into coverage more and more now as he's playing a strong side backer spot. In order to mix up looks and confuse the protections, you have Mario now being asked to drop more as well playing in direct contradiction to what he does best as a player. The one huge similarity I don't like between both our coaches is that, without two elite CB's, their defensive philosophy seems to be rather ineffective. Look at what Buffalo has at CB compared to what Rex had in NY. Now compare what we've had this seasons sans Haden to what is going on in Buffalo. Not that our defense was hot shit before that but at least we had capable coverage. You also have Mario Williams stating he himself is still working to grasp the defensive play calls several months into the season. In the grand scheme of things, I am apprentice compared to the knowledge these coordinators and coaches have though I worked to build upon that daily without marrying myself to something that 'has' to be a certain way. However in an ever increasingly fast playing league, I just find it odd you would want such complex calls that require so many different substitutions and personnel groupings thus making the task of executing your game plan (with young players tossed in) that much more difficult. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted January 2, 2016 Report Share Posted January 2, 2016 Trust me guys, you don't want Mario Williams. -aside from a bull rush, he has zero moves and zero speed. -Usually blocked one on one -totally useless in a 3-4 base -he can't run -can't cover a turtle. -system is way to complicated for him -His sacks came from (others) Uh oh.....sounds a lot like Kruger.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiamat63 Posted January 2, 2016 Report Share Posted January 2, 2016 Just to add, Rex's system is dependent on CB talent and a smart mike who correctly directs traffic like David Harris and Jim Leonhard from the Jets, or Lewis and Reed from the birds. ANY injuries without suitable back ups with the same grasp of the scheme spells total failure, like the 2015 Bills defense. It was a shit show out there this year. Leonard was a safety. Though he was responsible for most of the secondary communication I've read. However if your scheme is so dependent on CB talent that it appears broken when said talent is not available, its time to adjust the modus operandi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richiswhere Posted January 2, 2016 Report Share Posted January 2, 2016 Uh oh.....sounds a lot like Kruger.... Funny thing Kruger just came out saying he hasn't been "utilized in the best way" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiamat63 Posted January 2, 2016 Report Share Posted January 2, 2016 Only argument I would really feel like presenting at this point would be, if both defenses require 'field generals'... Why did the Buffalo defense go from good to great 'after' Pettine had left and has now regressed with Rexy? This is where I feel the stubborn adherence to a particular philosophy regardless of the personnel a coaching staff has can be costly. I have no doubt Rex will be railroaded out of town by this time next year. A similar concern I've had with the Browns, if your defense requires talent that is traditionally very difficult to not only scout but develop (2pt OLBs, elite CB's) then perhaps a shift in belief is needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted January 3, 2016 Report Share Posted January 3, 2016 we pick up Mario and use him in our 4-3 looks "none of you" will be complaining. We're still going to retain Orchard and Armonty so we can still have the 3-4 looks that Pettine wants. But you've all seen this year that when we line up in the 4-3 with Dez and Cooper as the ends, we kind of start to look like a competent NFL defense. Yeah if we bring in Mario and use him exactly like we're using Kruger, pffftttt....waste of time and bye bye Pettine after next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted January 3, 2016 Report Share Posted January 3, 2016 we pick up Mario and use him in our 4-3 looks "none of you" will be complaining. We're still going to retain Orchard and Armonty so we can still have the 3-4 looks that Pettine wants. But you've all seen this year that when we line up in the 4-3 with Dez and Cooper as the ends, we kind of start to look like a competent NFL defense. Yeah if we bring in Mario and use him exactly like we're using Kruger, pffftttt....waste of time and bye bye Pettine after next year. Orchard and Armonty were both 4-3 DEs in college, as was Mingo. Our edge rushing talent seems much more suited to a 4-3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted January 4, 2016 Report Share Posted January 4, 2016 Orchard and Armonty were both 4-3 DEs in college, as was Mingo. Our edge rushing talent seems much more suited to a 4-3. Again.....another indication of our DC not utilizing his talent properly. Thank God O'neil is history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted January 4, 2016 Report Share Posted January 4, 2016 Again.....another indication of our DC not utilizing his talent properly. Thank God O'neil is history. Bryant and Mingo were 2013 selections - DC Ray Horton. Mingo was immediately made OLB, while Armonty moved to 3-4 DE. Orchard's the only one you can really say was O'Neil, but either way, college players move from 3-4 to 4-3 and vice versa quite a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted January 4, 2016 Report Share Posted January 4, 2016 Bryant and Mingo were 2013 selections - DC Ray Horton. Mingo was immediately made OLB, while Armonty moved to 3-4 DE. Orchard's the only one you can really say was O'Neil, but either way, college players move from 3-4 to 4-3 and vice versa quite a lot. O'Neil has coached these guys the last two years. Whatever he did sucked....be that utilizations, scheme, motivation etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted January 4, 2016 Report Share Posted January 4, 2016 Yeah... Orchard has not developed at all... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted January 4, 2016 Report Share Posted January 4, 2016 forget Mario now. Only chance we had was if Pet stayed. He'll probably land in Miami. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiamat63 Posted January 4, 2016 Report Share Posted January 4, 2016 Orchard won't play with his hand in the dirt in q four man front unless it's a very obvious passing down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted March 1, 2016 Report Share Posted March 1, 2016 Williams released apparently. Any interest from anyone here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted March 1, 2016 Report Share Posted March 1, 2016 No... only fit is as a stand up OLB which is the use he bitched about in BUF... and coincidentally produced relative squat in filling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted March 1, 2016 Report Share Posted March 1, 2016 On the flip side, if we were to sign him and draft Bosa or Buckner, we could very easily transition to a mean 4-3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted March 1, 2016 Report Share Posted March 1, 2016 On the flip side, if we were to sign him and draft Bosa or Buckner, we could very easily transition to a mean 4-3. Draft Bosa? Dude you're crazy why? There's two Tom Brady's in this draft and we have to take one of them so we can cut him in two years....duhhhh!!! What are you thinking? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbedward Posted March 1, 2016 Report Share Posted March 1, 2016 Draft Bosa? Dude you're crazy why? There's two Tom Brady's in this draft and we have to take one of them so we can cut him in two years....duhhhh!!! What are you thinking? Don't worry, he's firmly in #CampGoff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted March 1, 2016 Report Share Posted March 1, 2016 lol... yup... Methinks Chris was fishing.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted March 1, 2016 Report Share Posted March 1, 2016 of course he was fishing. I for one am all in on the next new kid who I get to watch do cool shit on our sideline like Talk to McCown/Davis through a headset and give the guys high fives as they come off the field. I totally want that guys jersey . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted March 1, 2016 Report Share Posted March 1, 2016 of course he was fishing. I for one am all in on the next new kid who I get to watch do cool shit on our sideline like Talk to McCown/Davis through a headset and give the guys high fives as they come off the field. I totally want that guys jersey . I love this idea you have that one player is going to come in and suddenly make our D elite, like the Cleveland Broncos (now *that* is fishing). Sorry, but a QB drumpfs all other position if there's a guy that can make you set at a position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted March 1, 2016 Report Share Posted March 1, 2016 I love this idea you have that one player is going to come in and suddenly make our D elite, like the Cleveland Broncos (now *that* is fishing). Sorry, but a QB drumpfs all other position if there's a guy that can make you set at a position. 1) I have zero confidence that guy is in this draft. Zero. I see nothing but maybe's and projects. 2) Bosa or some other front 4 guy isn't going to make our line elite by himself. Of course not. But alongside Shelton, Meder and if we were next level we'd go out and get Mario and Long, or both. But even just Bosa and Orchard as our edges i'd be "very" happy with in terms of building something on defense. Even if one of these kids is money, I have zero interest in watching a young promising qb die behind our offensive line that has to deal with constant pass rushing because our defense can't stop shit so opposing defense's just pin their ears back and get after the new kid. If our offense is constantly playing from behind it doesn't matter who's QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted March 1, 2016 Report Share Posted March 1, 2016 i'll tell you what though, if we went out and got Long, Wiliams and Laurinaitis...gave em good two year deals.....I might shut up about a defensive player at #2. Then i'd be ok with a QB unless we lose Schwartz, in which case I want Tunsil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taco918 Posted March 1, 2016 Report Share Posted March 1, 2016 I love this idea you have that one player is going to come in and suddenly make our D elite, like the Cleveland Broncos (now *that* is fishing). Sorry, but a QB drumpfs all other position if there's a guy that can make you set at a position. Kudos on the usage of drumpf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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