CaineDeSoulis Posted January 4, 2016 Report Share Posted January 4, 2016 So we got a lawyer/business guy as the Vice president of football ops in sashi. Who knows literally nothing about scouting and player acquisition just knows numbers and analytics of the game. Haslem, sashi and Jed Hughes consultant from korn ferry to find the Head Coach they want and need. After the coach is hired the coach will JOIN the search for a GM. That Implies the Head Coach is Ahead of the GM in the pecking order. So the New HC gets a GM of Essentially his choosing that's only real job is to supply the head coach with players he wants/needs for his scheme aswell as oversee all scouting of new prospects and free agents. Sashi effectively has zero experience with scouting and football rosters so those duties even though he has "final" say of them are essentially made from the information obtained by the GM from scouting for head coach. Gentlemen... What we have here is a smoke and mirrors version of saying the new HC will have much much more direct control of the football team than we have seen in the past few years... Couple that with the fact we have the #2 overall pick presumably for the new HC's preferred QB lynch or goff i would imagine. Goff is the safer option with less upside lynch is more risky but with more potential. At first i was confused and angry that we just randomly promoted some guy to a top position. But then i realized he is basically just a moderator for the coach and gm to the owner. Also as a bonus sashi ends up being a fall guy if anything goes wrong. Seems like the browns are really really trying to get a quality HC and stick with him for a long time this time around. Unfortunately my gut is Chip Kelly . If kelly is the guy sashi role becomes more important. He acts as a balance to chip's shenanigans at that point. I am optimistic. This time its much different than the last house cleaning. There was much less uncertainty this time with haslem and he CLEARLY has a HC in mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted January 4, 2016 Report Share Posted January 4, 2016 After the coach is hired the coach will JOIN the search for a GM. That Implies the Head Coach is Ahead of the GM in the pecking order. *It more than implies...* So the New HC gets a GM of Essentially his choosing that's only real job is to supply the head coach with players he wants/needs for his scheme aswell as oversee all scouting of new prospects and free agents. *... and advanced scouting. Call the position what it is: the Scoutmaster General...* Seems like the browns are really really trying to get a quality HC and stick with him for a long time this time around. Unfortunately my gut is Chip Kelly . If kelly is the guy sashi role becomes more important. He acts as a balance to chip's shenanigans at that point. I am optimistic. There's always one oddball... While I agree with your take and fear your HC conclusion, the real fail point of the proposed Org Chart is the "ScoutMaster" position. What kind of talent can it attract? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stillmotion Posted January 4, 2016 Report Share Posted January 4, 2016 I sure hope it isn't kelly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lodilobo Posted January 4, 2016 Report Share Posted January 4, 2016 So we got a lawyer/business guy as the Vice president of football ops in sashi. Who knows literally nothing about scouting and player acquisition just knows numbers and analytics of the game. Haslem, sashi and Jed Hughes consultant from korn ferry to find the Head Coach they want and need. After the coach is hired the coach will JOIN the search for a GM. That Implies the Head Coach is Ahead of the GM in the pecking order. So the New HC gets a GM of Essentially his choosing that's only real job is to supply the head coach with players he wants/needs for his scheme aswell as oversee all scouting of new prospects and free agents. Sashi effectively has zero experience with scouting and football rosters so those duties even though he has "final" say of them are essentially made from the information obtained by the GM from scouting for head coach. Gentlemen... What we have here is a smoke and mirrors version of saying the new HC will have much much more direct control of the football team than we have seen in the past few years... Couple that with the fact we have the #2 overall pick presumably for the new HC's preferred QB lynch or goff i would imagine. Goff is the safer option with less upside lynch is more risky but with more potential. At first i was confused and angry that we just randomly promoted some guy to a top position. But then i realized he is basically just a moderator for the coach and gm to the owner. Also as a bonus sashi ends up being a fall guy if anything goes wrong. Seems like the browns are really really trying to get a quality HC and stick with him for a long time this time around. Unfortunately my gut is Chip Kelly . If kelly is the guy sashi role becomes more important. He acts as a balance to chip's shenanigans at that point. I am optimistic. This time its much different than the last house cleaning. There was much less uncertainty this time with haslem and he CLEARLY has a HC in mind. Conratulations!! You have posted the first positve reaction to yesterday's changes. I was trying to do something like this, but my creativity and optimism has limits. I hope your right. I can't take too much more of the hate and negativity going on today. For the most part, we all wanted Pettine and Farmer fired, didn't we? Well....there it is. We have that. It's now up to Haslam to proceed from here and produce a product worth supporting. I'm hopeful, but my loser mentality, forged over the last 20 years is difficult to ignore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyingfooldoug Posted January 4, 2016 Report Share Posted January 4, 2016 When you are a Weblow...you need a scoutmaster. Then you can learn to build a fire and whittle...yay! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gumby73 Posted January 4, 2016 Report Share Posted January 4, 2016 As a Browniac fan I got to keep faith this will work somehow. The strongest point is we got to get right is GM jr. & HC with strong football background to basically rebuild. Jimmy has it right when he said you can build from the draft but he's wrong if you don't sprinkle in some FA's. When our scouting dept. has been the issue since rebuild, I agree we must get a strong guy to strictly get it fixed as his only duty. The HC & Sashi must connect to make this right & as you say it should give the HC power with football background but Sashi is the fall guy. It could be a perfect HC setup but please no Kelly personality with players. At #2 Bosa over Goff for a 2016 impact player now then at #32 a Kevin Hogan or Wentz we can build with McCown leadership. We our back to the point of rebuilding around any QB before we put one in place due to OL & WR's (Gordon I Doubt).. Holding faith for now, 2 big puzzle pieces missing. Go Browns!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyingfooldoug Posted January 4, 2016 Report Share Posted January 4, 2016 As a Browniac fan I got to keep faith this will work somehow. The strongest point is we got to get right is GM jr. & HC with strong football background to basically rebuild. Jimmy has it right when he said you can build from the draft but he's wrong if you don't sprinkle in some FA's. When our scouting dept. has been the issue since rebuild, I agree we must get a strong guy to strictly get it fixed as his only duty. The HC & Sashi must connect to make this right & as you say it should give the HC power with football background but Sashi is the fall guy. It could be a perfect HC setup but please no Kelly personality with players. At #2 Bosa over Goff for a 2016 impact player now then at #32 a Kevin Hogan or Wentz we can build with McCown leadership. We our back to the point of rebuilding around any QB before we put one in place due to OL & WR's (Gordon I Doubt).. Holding faith for now, 2 big puzzle pieces missing. Go Browns!! We have the GM. His nme is Sashi Brown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrownsKidd Posted January 4, 2016 Report Share Posted January 4, 2016 Conratulations!! You have posted the first positve reaction to yesterday's changes. I was trying to do something like this, but my creativity and optimism has limits. I hope your right. I can't take too much more of the hate and negativity going on today. For the most part, we all wanted Pettine and Farmer fired, didn't we? Well....there it is. We have that. It's now up to Haslam to proceed from here and produce a product worth supporting. I'm hopeful, but my loser mentality, forged over the last 20 years is difficult to ignore. Agreed, I hope he is right. Perhaps our version and definition of GM is skewed a bit by tradition. Maybe Haslam, knows something we and various other NFL teams don't. Time will tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USFBrown Posted January 4, 2016 Report Share Posted January 4, 2016 Ha! Yeah right. We are the LEAST attractive place. Let's not kid ourselves. We have an owner who has an itchy trigger finger firing, a new "gm" who has no experience, our QB situation is a black hole, we have a lack of talent, we have a new management chain that is bunk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miktoxic Posted January 4, 2016 Report Share Posted January 4, 2016 So we got a lawyer/business guy as the Vice president of football ops in sashi. Who knows literally nothing about scouting and player acquisition just knows numbers and analytics of the game. Haslem, sashi and Jed Hughes consultant from korn ferry to find the Head Coach they want and need. After the coach is hired the coach will JOIN the search for a GM. That Implies the Head Coach is Ahead of the GM in the pecking order. So the New HC gets a GM of Essentially his choosing that's only real job is to supply the head coach with players he wants/needs for his scheme aswell as oversee all scouting of new prospects and free agents. Sashi effectively has zero experience with scouting and football rosters so those duties even though he has "final" say of them are essentially made from the information obtained by the GM from scouting for head coach. Gentlemen... What we have here is a smoke and mirrors version of saying the new HC will have much much more direct control of the football team than we have seen in the past few years... Couple that with the fact we have the #2 overall pick presumably for the new HC's preferred QB lynch or goff i would imagine. Goff is the safer option with less upside lynch is more risky but with more potential. At first i was confused and angry that we just randomly promoted some guy to a top position. But then i realized he is basically just a moderator for the coach and gm to the owner. Also as a bonus sashi ends up being a fall guy if anything goes wrong. Seems like the browns are really really trying to get a quality HC and stick with him for a long time this time around. Unfortunately my gut is Chip Kelly . If kelly is the guy sashi role becomes more important. He acts as a balance to chip's shenanigans at that point. I am optimistic. This time its much different than the last house cleaning. There was much less uncertainty this time with haslem and he CLEARLY has a HC in mind. there. fixed it for you. you'll thank me..............soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbedward Posted January 4, 2016 Report Share Posted January 4, 2016 Colts are definitely the most attractive spot. Followed by just about everybody else. Then there's the Browns... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldBrownsFan Posted January 4, 2016 Report Share Posted January 4, 2016 I'm not seeing Cleveland so attractive to good HC candidates. That came through loud and clear a few years ago when Chud was fired after less than 12 months and there were a good number of HC candidates who said thanks but no thanks to coming to Cleveland to replace Chud. It should not be that way as the HC of an NFL team is usually regarded as one of the most highly coveted jobs in sports but this is where Cleveland is at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark O Posted January 4, 2016 Report Share Posted January 4, 2016 . For the most part, we all wanted Pettine and Farmer fired, didn't we? Well....there it is. We have that. It's now up to Haslam to proceed from here and produce a product worth supporting. I'm hopeful, but my loser mentality, forged over the last 20 years is difficult to ignore. No WE all didn't. I would've liked to see Farmer replaced but I wanted to keep Pettine and make some defensive coaching changes. If we suck again next year, then you get rid of everyone, except the new GM, and you let him pick his next head coach. If for nothing else, its the perception that no matter what, you have 2 years or less to turn shit into champagne. No coach with any other options is going to take that. Y'all hated Pettine and wanted him fired after about week 3 of this season. Can't wait to see how long the next guy gets who has no HC experience and y'all are bitching about him just as much. Same shit....different day... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbedward Posted January 4, 2016 Report Share Posted January 4, 2016 I'm not seeing Cleveland so attractive to good HC candidates. That came through loud and clear a few years ago when Chud was fired after less than 12 months and there were a good number of HC candidates who said thanks but no thanks to coming to Cleveland to replace Chud. It should not be that way as the HC of an NFL team is usually regarded as one of the most highly coveted jobs in sports but this is where Cleveland is at. It is one of the most highly coveted jobs in sports - and we'll have absolutely no problem filling the role as usual. BUT. We're probably going to be looking at 5-8 coaching vacancies in the off season. If you're a hot name like the Dan Quinns, Bruce Arians, Adam Gases (maybe Teryl Austin? I don't know anything about him or why his name is coming up) - literally every single one of the 5-8 teams hiring are going to be calling you, why choose Cleveland when you can choose a team like the Colts who are built to win now. If all the vacancies fill up, the big names are already well known around the league where they'd have plenty of opportunities to jump up to HC the next year or after that - why settle for the first dumpster fire that comes around. The re-tread guys that everybody wants but rarely gets probably don't want to ruin their good reputation by getting fired in 2 years in Cleveland - and would demand a gross amount of money. But if we're talking about a lesser-coveted guy who's hungry for a head coaching job, but doesn't have a lot of options as other teams swoop up top candidates. You come to Cleveland in a heart beat to "build a winning culture". IE: Romeo Crennel, Pat Shurmur, Rob Chudzinski, Mike Pettine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lodilobo Posted January 4, 2016 Report Share Posted January 4, 2016 No WE all didn't. I would've liked to see Farmer replaced but I wanted to keep Pettine and make some defensive coaching changes. If we suck again next year, then you get rid of everyone, except the new GM, and you let him pick his next head coach. If for nothing else, its the perception that no matter what, you have 2 years or less to turn shit into champagne. No coach with any other options is going to take that. Y'all hated Pettine and wanted him fired after about week 3 of this season. Can't wait to see how long the next guy gets who has no HC experience and y'all are bitching about him just as much. Same shit....different day... Read it again...I said "FOR THE MOST PART'...meaning most people on this board. Sorry they didn't keep Pettine. Nice guy...way too nice to be a HC. This stupid logic of continuity....stability...consisency is ridiculous. How many other teams in the NFL will go through more than one losing season without considering firing the coach? Hell....a couple years ago Tomlin was on the proverbial hot seat. It would be idiotic to keep regressing for the sake of consistency. I can't speak for anyone else, but I didn't hate Pettine and with 2 or 3 more wins, there could have been an argument not to fire him. But...he clearly was over his head and there was nothing in sight to think he might recover. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark O Posted January 4, 2016 Report Share Posted January 4, 2016 Read it again...I said "FOR THE MOST PART'...meaning most people on this board. Sorry they didn't keep Pettine. Nice guy...way too nice to be a HC. This stupid logic of continuity....stability...consisency is ridiculous. How many other teams in the NFL will go through more than one losing season without considering firing the coach? Hell....a couple years ago Tomlin was on the proverbial hot seat. It would be idiotic to keep regressing for the sake of consistency. I can't speak for anyone else, but I didn't hate Pettine and with 2 or 3 more wins, there could have been an argument not to fire him. But...he clearly was over his head and there was nothing in sight to think he might recover. We don't just consider it...we do it over and over and over again and expect different results. No big name coach or highly coveted coach with other options will take this job. The next guy won't be any better and we're going to be right back here in 2 years. The Bengals talked about firing Lewis quite a few times but didn't do it. The Panthers talked about firiing their coach 2 years ago....but decided to keep him. We would've fired both of those guys years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasAg1969 Posted January 4, 2016 Report Share Posted January 4, 2016 We don't just consider it...we do it over and over and over again and expect different results. No big name coach or highly coveted coach with other options will take this job. The next guy won't be any better and we're going to be right back here in 2 years. The Bengals talked about firing Lewis quite a few times but didn't do it. The Panthers talked about firiing their coach 2 years ago....but decided to keep him. We would've fired both of those guys years ago. And the sad thing is they are already talking about using the #2 overall for another QB..................as usual. http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/01/04/jimmy-haslam-threatens-some-poor-qb-with-the-second-pick/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDDawg Posted January 4, 2016 Report Share Posted January 4, 2016 We've essentially gone back to having a capologist as head of football operations which was one of the problems we had in attracting good HC candidates during the last two searches. The only difference is that the Browns are hanging the carrot of the coach choosing/recommending his director of player personnel aka 'GM". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D Bone Posted January 4, 2016 Report Share Posted January 4, 2016 Jimmy didn't just blow it up, he nuked it, and it is now the most toxic place in the NFL world. The worst I've felt about the Browns since 1995. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaineDeSoulis Posted January 4, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 4, 2016 I feel better this year than i did at the beginning of 2015 with farmer in place. and we dont have any body in place lol. Pettine could have stayed around that would have been cool though. Mostly to appease the veterans on the team to be honest. Honestly if pettine would have had this kind of control he probably would have done substantially better.none of the other HC needy teams are offering more control than the Cleveland Browns are. to me its better logic than GM saying to the coach "your job is to play the talent i give you and win". i prefer the logic of the coach saying to the GM "your job is to get me the talent i need to win" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted January 4, 2016 Report Share Posted January 4, 2016 Jimmy didn't just blow it up, he nuked it, and it is now the most toxic place in the NFL world. The worst I've felt about the Browns since 1995. I feel a lot better about the future.....we have gotten rid of bad apples.....and have had a string of bad apples. I can only see some nice, ripe, red apples on the horizon. As Haslam said: the important thing is who you have in the job. We just got rid of two losers. So now are chances are fair that we will bring in some winners. And that is what counts....not how things are structured but how the people in those jobs perform. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted January 4, 2016 Report Share Posted January 4, 2016 I feel better this year than i did at the beginning of 2015 with farmer in place. and we dont have any body in place lol. Pettine could have stayed around that would have been cool though. Mostly to appease the veterans on the team to be honest. Honestly if pettine would have had this kind of control he probably would have done substantially better. none of the other HC needy teams are offering more control than the Cleveland Browns are. to me its better logic than GM saying to the coach "your job is to play the talent i give you and win". i prefer the logic of the coach saying to the GM "your job is to get me the talent i need to win" First, please pass whatever you are smoking, drinking, inhaling, injecting and ingesting. Second, it was Farmer's job to do exactly what you say is the GM's job. The problem clearly was Jimmah was unwilling to step into the middle of them... just as his org chart was set up for him to do. Even to the end he avoided the middle by firing them both. Jimmah's solution with which you are so pleased... install a football neophyte kinda, but not really, in the middle, in his place. This organization fix is half-baked at best... Which brings us back to whatever you are smoking.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaineDeSoulis Posted January 4, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 4, 2016 tour have you ever considered rooting for dallas? they have an owner who likes to step in between the gm and coach i think you might like. For all intents and purposes jimmy hired a professional mediator to make sure the bullshit dick measuring between farmer and pet would not happen again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasAg1969 Posted January 4, 2016 Report Share Posted January 4, 2016 USA Today ranks us last for desirable HC NFL jobs. http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/2016/01/04/coaching-carousel-philadelphia-eagles-san-francisco-49ers/78254378/#cx_ab_test_id=21&cx_ab_test_variant=cx_collab_ctx&cx_art_pos=2&cx_navSource=arttop&cx_tag=collabctx&cx_rec_type=collabctx&cx_ctrl_comp_grp=false&cxrecs_s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted January 4, 2016 Report Share Posted January 4, 2016 tour have you ever considered rooting for dallas? they have an owner who likes to step in between the gm and coach i think you might like. For all intents and purposes jimmy hired a professional mediator to make sure the bullshit dick measuring between farmer and pet would not happen again. As a Browns fan born and bred I fuckin' hate Dallas... Besides in Dallas the owner is the fuckin' GM, so not a very good example... agree? Yup... Jerrah hired a mediator and then put him in a terrible position to do his job. It's obvious to anyone with an understanding of organizational dynamics. And the only reason the "dick measuring" occurred was that Jimmah did not fill the role he created when he set the original org chart... and reinforced it at the early 2015 retreat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaineDeSoulis Posted January 4, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 4, 2016 it is a very narrow minded look to at only sushi and haslem and say the franchise is doomed. Haslem as impulsive is a little harsh Shurmur wasn't his guy. banner and lombardi he got stuck with for 2012-2013 and finally he got his guys in pettine and farmer and they start good then they have so much in fighting it fall apart and the team suffers because of it.so to recap firing shurmur was easy because he was a coward HC then they got chud and i thought he was okay over his head but okay. got rid of banner and lombardi so chud followed may aswell go all new in that case anyway. so he was forced to remove farmer and pettine. I dont see this as impulsive i see this as driven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted January 4, 2016 Report Share Posted January 4, 2016 Very Narrow minded? Moi? In an org that is as flat as the Browns org is... where else is there to look? Make no mistake the two top players are in place. I gave Jimmah every benefit of the doubt when he reorganized, hire plausible people and reinforced their roles in the retreat. I believed that a business as successful as he is had enough knowledge of organizational dynamics for his chosen organization to function... ... but he did not put in the work to ensure that it did. And now, as I see it, he has tinkered with the organization just enough to set it, and Sashimi, up to fail. I hope I am wrong... but 30 years of business experience with the last third in a related, very applicable field, don't say that I am... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted January 4, 2016 Report Share Posted January 4, 2016 USA Today ranks us last for desirable HC NFL jobs. http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/2016/01/04/coaching-carousel-philadelphia-eagles-san-francisco-49ers/78254378/#cx_ab_test_id=21&cx_ab_test_variant=cx_collab_ctx&cx_art_pos=2&cx_navSource=arttop&cx_tag=collabctx&cx_rec_type=collabctx&cx_ctrl_comp_grp=false&cxrecs_s So what? Who cares what they think? It only matters that we get a guy in here that can actually do the job. Teams that supposedly land the big fish often fall flat on their faces. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted January 4, 2016 Report Share Posted January 4, 2016 Very Narrow minded? Moi? In an org that is as flat as the Browns org is... where else is there to look? Make no mistake the two top players are in place. I gave Jimmah every benefit of the doubt when he reorganized, hire plausible people and reinforced their roles in the retreat. I believed that a business as successful as he is had enough knowledge of organizational dynamics for his chosen organization to function... ... but he did not put in the work to ensure that it did. And now, as I see it, he has tinkered with the organization just enough to set it, and Sashimi, up to fail. I hope I am wrong... but 30 years of business experience with the last third in a related, very applicable field, don't say that I am... I don't buy that whatever experience you have in the business world can in any way be related to running a professional football team....unless you run an NBA/MLB/NHL team. Even if you were the AD at a major university it would not be the same. So....all you dipshits that say you know better than Haslam or that you KNOW that the way he has decided to organize is doomed to failure....Shut the fuck up. You know nothing John Snow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gumby73 Posted January 4, 2016 Report Share Posted January 4, 2016 We have the GM. His nme is Sashi Brown the world knows Yoshi Brown is the GM. GM jr./scoutmaster & HC as quoted our the 2 big puzzle pieces. Hope the video game reference helps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.