Opal312 Posted January 11, 2016 Report Share Posted January 11, 2016 I think there will be trades coming. maybe they'll gut the whole team and start over. Thomas and Mack may want to finish their careers elsewhere. Trade Haden and Kruger. Dump Starks, Williams, Manziel. Get AJ McCarron or Kaepernick and draft wide receivers, a top 5 running back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaconHound Posted January 11, 2016 Report Share Posted January 11, 2016 I think there will be trades coming. maybe they'll gut the whole team and start over. Thomas and Mack may want to finish their careers elsewhere. Trade Haden and Kruger. Dump Starks, Williams, Manziel. Get AJ McCarron or Kaepernick and draft wide receivers, a top 5 running back. I hate to be the bearer of bad news but Kruger's contract is impossible to trade and Haden's is pretty much the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaconHound Posted January 11, 2016 Report Share Posted January 11, 2016 .....except they were offering a first round pick. "the two sides were closing in on a package that included Thomas and a Browns fourth-round pick in exchange for the Broncos' first- and second-round picks in the 2016 draft but that the Browns also wanted to include the Broncos' 2016 third-round pick." http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/14046758/cleveland-browns-denver-broncos-agree-joe-thomas-trade The thing is Joe's trade value will be lower on draft day. The reason the Broncos were considering pulling the trigger on that deal is because they saw they were legit Super Bowl contenders. I wouldn't do it on draft day, but if the Browns season is long over by the deadline this upcoming season and this type of deal came up? I can't say I'd be too upset. My bad thought it was first and third but you are correct first, second and third was Browns asking. I still stand by only getting a second at this point. Good teams before the trade deadline needing depth for a playoff run may overpay to get that piece they need. Going into the offseason teams will either draft their need in the first round or get healthy if they think the talent is already in house. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdl15 Posted January 11, 2016 Report Share Posted January 11, 2016 I'm not to fond of Kap tho. When Gabbert makes you look worse than John Manziel there won't be to many suiters for u Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbedward Posted January 11, 2016 Report Share Posted January 11, 2016 I think there will be trades coming. maybe they'll gut the whole team and start over. Thomas and Mack may want to finish their careers elsewhere. Trade Haden and Kruger. Dump Starks, Williams, Manziel. Get AJ McCarron or Kaepernick and draft wide receivers, a top 5 running back. You don't have to dump all the veteran talent we have mid contract to start over. You fill in the other gaps, and work plans to replace those guys as you go along. Since we can't replace them all at once. Also Kruger likely has no trade value on an overpaid contract given his performance level. Haden's value is probably at the lowest it will ever be. I don't agree with the dump every decent player we have mentality - you have to approach the problem more strategically than that, otherwise we're just creating even more holes for low end picks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaconHound Posted January 11, 2016 Report Share Posted January 11, 2016 You don't have to dump all the veteran talent we have mid contract to start over. You fill in the other gaps, and work plans to replace those guys as you go along. Since we can't replace them all at once. Also Kruger likely has no trade value on an overpaid contract given his performance level. Haden's value is probably at the lowest it will ever be. I don't agree with the dump every decent player we have mentality - you have to approach the problem more strategically than that, otherwise we're just creating even more holes for low end picks. I'm not sure where the Browns fall but the last CBA had a salary floor for the years of 2013-2016. I believe over that time the team must spend 89% the total cap allowance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
One Post Posted January 11, 2016 Report Share Posted January 11, 2016 You don't dump an all pro left tackle. That's just re re. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canton Mike Posted January 11, 2016 Report Share Posted January 11, 2016 I'm feeling better looking forward to this analytic approach than the old way. I don't think our draft picks will be as subjective as Lombardi decision, Farmer decision, coaches or owners' decision, etc. While I feel better about this off season, it IS literally an unknown & we, as Fans, may be shocked at some of the moves/decisions that may be made. As always, I'll still be a Browns' Fan & I will support this TEAM, however it may look. Bottom line is that, once again, I defer to my avatar (one which I think is perfect for a Browns' Fan!). Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoorta Posted January 11, 2016 Report Share Posted January 11, 2016 The Browns ALREADY tried to trade him. Nobody was interested. So..... No, he is near the end of his career. He doesn't have much value now. I mean who is going to give shit for him? He's a fucking offensive lineman,and not a particularly outstanding one at that. Keep him and let him drive till the wheels fall off. In response Tom- I'm at the point if Thomas asks to be traded (and he may) get the best deal you can. The complicating factor is Mack can opt out of his contract, and The Schwartz is an UFA. Should they all leave, drafting a top qb like Lynch or Goff @ #2 makes no sense. They're gonna get killed- just like Couch did with the Browns, or the other Carr did in Texas. That's three gaping holes on the offensive line- and if you think you can just plug untalented big fat stiffs you find in the Muni Lot before the games on Sunday, you're dead wrong. As others have pointed out- the Browns could have gotten a (low) first round pick for Thomas- but the Browns got greedy. Personally, I'd like to see Thomas finish his career in Cleveland. He's the only lock HOFer we've had since 1999. Joe can't do it all by himself- if the other 21 starters are crap. That's the problem. Thomas has about as many Pro Bowls by himself as the rest of the team combined- going back a long way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoorta Posted January 11, 2016 Report Share Posted January 11, 2016 Larry, He is a LOCK? WTF are you smoking? That is the most idiotic fucking thing you have ever said. We have a HOF LOCK...................... yet he has made NO MEASUERABLE IMPROVEMENT on his team. You go on and on about how the OL makes the offense. You got more money in an OL than any other NFL team over the past 15 years, AND 2 OL in the pro bowl is it? Hickerson had to wait until he was pissing and shitting into a bag and couldn't distinguish his nutsack from a sledge hammer to get in.... and HE helped Jim Brown. Joe THomas has made NOT ONE SINGLE IMPACT on the Browns. NOT ONE SINGLE FUCKING IMPACT. He will NEVER see the HOF. NEVER. Mark my words and cry about it later. The guy is a fucking average player on a horrible team. He isn't a patch on Hicersons dead rotting ass. Fuck Joe Thomas. Read it and weep booger. Kiss my ass. Thomas makes the Pro Bowl next year, he beats the following: (he's already on equal footing) Lead pipe lock. I f**cking guarantee it. BTW, what did Barry Sanders or Derrick Thomas ever do for their respective teams, by your standards, they were as worthless as Joe Thomas. Furthermore, here's the list of tackles that ARE in the HOF. Anthony Munoz, John Ogden, Willie Roaf, Art Shell, and Jackie Slater. NONE of the previous made the Pro Bowl nine running. Keep reading- Joe is in some pretty elite company, like upper echelon HOF company. . "Thomas is the eighth player in NFL history to make it to nine straight all-star games at the start of his career. Defensive tackle Merlin Olsen (Los Angeles Rams), defensive back/running back Mel Renfro (Dallas Cowboys), running backs Barry Sanders (Detroit Lions), Jim Brown (Browns) Franco Harris (Pittsburgh Steelers), linebackers Lawrence Taylor (New York Giants) and Derrick Thomas (Kansas City Chiefs) are the only other players in NFL history who went nine-for-nine in Pro Bowl appearances to start their careers, and all are enshrined in the Pro Football Hall of Fame in Canton, Ohio." Um in case you don't realize it- the HOF is an individual award for excellence, not some team greatness award. I also realize you're trolling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted January 11, 2016 Report Share Posted January 11, 2016 He is a LOCK? WTF are you smoking? You are correct... h should have said "first-ballot HOF lock"... I don't know what he was thinking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miktoxic Posted January 11, 2016 Report Share Posted January 11, 2016 lame thread troll i agree. hey cdl... got nothing against you BUT could you PLEEEEEEZ change that avatar? omg it bugs the fucking piss out of me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdl15 Posted January 11, 2016 Report Share Posted January 11, 2016 i agree. hey cdl... got nothing against you BUT could you PLEEEEEEZ change that avatar? omg it bugs the fucking piss out of me. Nope I must butt fucked one of yours and Cleveland4life wife, girlfriend or mothers growing up and for that I'm sorry you guys had to deal with nasty pussy growing up. A real dumbass says "lame post" and then takes time to reply. You may not like it but it's a legit conversation to have and jealousy that your threads die out after an hour or so is very apparent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted January 11, 2016 Report Share Posted January 11, 2016 I'm not to fond of Kap tho. When Gabbert makes you look worse than John Manziel there won't be to many suiters for u There's always Chip Kelly, wherever he ends up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted January 11, 2016 Report Share Posted January 11, 2016 There's always Chip Kelly, wherever he ends up. Just had a waking nightmare that in the end he and us were the only ones left at the dance without a partner... Snapped out of it when I threw up in my mouth a little... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted January 11, 2016 Report Share Posted January 11, 2016 Just had a waking nightmare that in the end he and us were the only ones left at the dance without a partner... Snapped out of it when I threw up in my mouth a little... Well if it does happen, get used to the idea of Kaepernick and Manziel alternating no-huddle drives, while we have a 53-man roster made of 35 O guys, 16 D guys, a long snapper and a kicker/punter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbedward Posted January 11, 2016 Report Share Posted January 11, 2016 Well if it does happen, get used to the idea of Kaepernick and Manziel alternating no-huddle drives, while we have a 53-man roster made of 35 O guys, 16 D guys, a long snapper and a kicker/punter. ...... Here's to hoping for Jackson or Patricia. I think the Browns have a better situation than the 49ers, but Jackson seems like he kind of wants to be closer to home which would be SF. ...so here's to the beard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unsympathetic Posted January 11, 2016 Report Share Posted January 11, 2016 My god, I hate this thread with a burning passion. The question isn't if something something could be achieved by trading Thomas. The question is if the value of the thing received in compensation equals the value of the performance Thomas gives.. and that is a firm no. When the new GM blows whatever draft pick was received, we'd have accomplished throwing away Thomas for... exactly nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Couch Pulls Out Posted January 11, 2016 Report Share Posted January 11, 2016 My god, I hate this thread with a burning passion. The question isn't if something something could be achieved by trading Thomas. The question is if the value of the thing received in compensation equals the value of the performance Thomas gives.. and that is a firm no. When the new GM blows whatever draft pick was received, we'd have accomplished throwing away Thomas for... exactly nothing. Except that you're basing the valuation of future draft picks on the performance of past GM's, which is a complete fallacy. (For the record, I agree with you - just not for that reason) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdl15 Posted January 11, 2016 Report Share Posted January 11, 2016 Except that you're basing the valuation of future draft picks on the performance of past GM's, which is a complete fallacy. (For the record, I agree with you - just not for that reason) for the record I wouldn't entertain offers either for Joe Thomas I want him to retire a brown. and I do believe if the team would have at least been mediocre the last couple years it wouldn't even be a discussion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Couch Pulls Out Posted January 11, 2016 Report Share Posted January 11, 2016 for the record I wouldn't entertain offers either for Joe Thomas I want him to retire a brown. and I do believe if the team would have at least been mediocre the last couple years it wouldn't even be a discussion I'd entertain offers, but I'd let him have the ultimate say (which is probably bad GM'ing, but oh well). He deserves the chance to compete for a ring. I'd love for him to retire in Cleveland - but I could also see him finishing his career in Green Bay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unsympathetic Posted January 11, 2016 Report Share Posted January 11, 2016 Except that you're basing the valuation of future draft picks on the performance of past GM's No, I'm basing it on the combination of 1) whatever is received in compensation - even if the GM is Ozzie Newsome - and 2) the performance of the person replacing Thomas on the line. 1) If the hypothesis is we'd get a first for him and use it on Stanley/Conklin/Decker... I'm saying that trade wouldn't happen because the team offering the first would draft one of those instead.. simply to have the cheaper roster cost. 2) Nobody's walking in that door and becoming a 10-time Pro Bowler. What's the performance of the person replacing Thomas? If Thomas gets some massive number of picks - say, 2 firsts& 2 seconds - then yes, take that / resign Schwartz to move to LT / draft RT. But since last year we couldn't even get a first, a third, and a backup LB from Denver.. Who, exactly, is this mythical trade partner willing to give a Herschel or Ricky - type trade? The issue isn't "trade or nothing" -- the issue is getting appropriate/adequate compensation for his skills, or just rebuild around him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Couch Pulls Out Posted January 11, 2016 Report Share Posted January 11, 2016 No, I'm basing it on the combination of 1) whatever is received in compensation - even if the GM is Ozzie Newsome - and 2) the performance of the person replacing Thomas on the line. 1) If the hypothesis is we'd get a first for him and use it on Stanley/Conklin/Decker... I'm saying that trade wouldn't happen because the team offering the first would draft one of those instead.. simply to have the cheaper roster cost. 2) Nobody's walking in that door and becoming a 10-time Pro Bowler. What's the performance of the person replacing Thomas? If Thomas gets some massive number of picks - say, 2 firsts& 2 seconds - then yes, take that / resign Schwartz to move to LT / draft RT. But since last year we couldn't even get a first, a third, and a backup LB from Denver.. Who, exactly, is this mythical trade partner willing to give a Herschel or Ricky - type trade? The issue isn't "trade or nothing" -- the issue is getting appropriate/adequate compensation for his skills, or just rebuild around him. Okay, I'll bite. If we're trading Thomas, and the assumption is that we are receiving AT LEAST a first round pick in compensation - the idea is that any team that would be willing trade partners would have to be sans LT. This would either be a team that is notoriously garbage and is picking in the first half of the draft, or a team making a playoff push (a la Denver). The trade with Denver was supposedly dumped because we were asking for a first, second and third and they were willing to only give a first and second. Let's set the value of Thomas at what Denver was okay with - a first and second, in return for a fourth. This would give us three picks in the top 32 - four in the top 64. Being a college LT myself, I am not devaluing the performance of a LT whatsoever - however, there are multiple positions we could improve at that would conceivably yield a greater return than the loss we'd receive at LT. There are a number of different draft scenarios where I can see us yielding a more positive return from Thomas - We take Goff at #2 and package our late first and second rounder to move up and take Jaylon Smith. We take Goff at #2, Michael Thomas in the late first, Reggie Ragland at #32 and Kentrell Brothers in the late second. We take Bosa at #2, Carson Wentz in the late first, Kenny Lawler at #32 and Kentrell Brothers in the late second. It's unlikely that any of them will be 10x Pro Bowlers, yet they will all be significant upgrades at their respective positions - which would make it worth the trade. The only trade I would even be willing to accept would be one that gets us both a first and a second. That's the only way I could see the scales at least being balanced. But it's unlikely we'll find that trade now, as you said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted January 11, 2016 Report Share Posted January 11, 2016 I have no intention of reading this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbedward Posted January 12, 2016 Report Share Posted January 12, 2016 WTF? Who in their right mind is going to offer jack shit for this fat ass cocksucker Joe Thomas? Denver offered a third and That was it. First round pick. Goof gried that is the dumbest fucking thing ever posted here. Lol...the irony is strong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted January 12, 2016 Report Share Posted January 12, 2016 Dude, the Browns were already to dump him. Nobody wanted to gie us shit for him, so we kept him. You need to work on your understanding of "dump." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
htownbrown Posted January 12, 2016 Report Share Posted January 12, 2016 Nope I must butt fucked one of yours and Cleveland4life wife, girlfriend or mothers growing up and for that I'm sorry you guys had to deal with nasty pussy growing up. A real dumbass says "lame post" and then takes time to reply. You may not like it but it's a legit conversation to have and jealousy that your threads die out after an hour or so is very apparent. Umm.........I think your ego is getting the best of you bro. That's some petty shit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted January 12, 2016 Report Share Posted January 12, 2016 I love Joe Thomas. I would hate to see him go but: If we are to assume that this analytics pipe dream is going to have success then it's time to start drafting, and drafting well. Right now Joe is at the top of his trade value, but he's not getting any younger. The more good young players we can amass the better off we will be when they all come into their own as NFL players at approximately the same time. If it takes a couple seasons, and if the slash and burn jerk offs can keep themselves from a house cleaning in two years, the team could easily be poised for a big surge. WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdl15 Posted January 13, 2016 Report Share Posted January 13, 2016 Its not Joe Thomas's talent dropping off the older he gets. I can see him staying at an elite level LT well into his ladder 30s. The thing I worry about Joe is what his intentions are once his current contract is up. Will he sign another? The type of person Thomas is I can see him hanging it up. And honestly why not? He will certainly be a 1st ballot HOFer. He is already one of the greatest to play the position. And I can see him getting out with both his legs and his brain in tact. And all we as browns fans can do is say "Thanks for the uninterrupted service Joe." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zombo Posted January 13, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 13, 2016 I haven't read this thread because the guy forgot to put a question mark on the title and that bugged me. Now I am going to merge it with the other Joe Thomas thread ... the one about him being a First Team All-Pro. You don't even think of getting rid of him. Start drafting better. Zombo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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