Hoodums19 Posted January 10, 2016 Report Share Posted January 10, 2016 I'm 95% sure that we are taking Goff at this point. Johnny obviously isn't the solution, and McCown is too old to build your franchise around. So if we take Goff, I pray he turns out like Andrew Luck. So if Goff is like Andrew Luck, we will basically be the Indianapolis Colts, A team with a good Quarterback with a few offensive weapons and a below average defense.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasAg1969 Posted January 10, 2016 Report Share Posted January 10, 2016 I'm 95% sure that we are taking Goff at this point. Johnny obviously isn't the solution, and McCown is too old to build your franchise around. So if we take Goff, I pray he turns out like Andrew Luck. So if Goff is like Andrew Luck, we will basically be the Indianapolis Colts, A team with a good Quarterback with a few offensive weapons and a below average defense.... No we will still be the Browns chasing the tail of the latest "sure thing" QB to be followed by the next firing of the new HC & GM 2 years from now when that doesn't work out and shortly followed by choosing the next ex-Browns "sure thing" QB. Let's just all eat dog turds instead in Cabernet marinade. At least it will leave a better taste in the mouth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zombo Posted January 10, 2016 Report Share Posted January 10, 2016 I'm 95% sure that we are taking Goff at this point. Johnny obviously isn't the solution, and McCown is too old to build your franchise around. So if we take Goff, I pray he turns out like Andrew Luck. So if Goff is like Andrew Luck, we will basically be the Indianapolis Colts, A team with a good Quarterback with a few offensive weapons and a below average defense.... Ya that would suck having a franchise QB but not being good enough to get to the SB the first four years. We haven't had a franchise QB since the last time the Bungles won a playoff game ... or the Browns., I'll take my chances with a 15 year window with one. IF he's the guy. If not ... keep trying. Who's left in the AFC? Brady, Manning, Ben, Alex Smith. They have all been starters for 10-15 years? Gotta get one, gotta develop him, gotta keep him. Zombo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbedward Posted January 10, 2016 Report Share Posted January 10, 2016 No we will still be the Browns chasing the tail of the latest "sure thing" QB to be followed by the next firing of the new HC & GM 2 years from now when that doesn't work out and shortly followed by choosing the next ex-Browns "sure thing" QB. Let's just all eat dog turds instead in Cabernet marinade. At least it will leave a better taste in the mouth. Don't remember the last "sure thing" talent we've drafted (at QB) ...Tim couch in 99'? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Couch Pulls Out Posted January 10, 2016 Report Share Posted January 10, 2016 Don't remember the last "sure thing" talent we've drafted (at QB) ...Tim couch in 99'? People seem to think that "first round" means "sure thing". We haven't taken the top rated QB in 15 years. Then again, top rated doesn't mean sure thing either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tacosman Posted January 10, 2016 Report Share Posted January 10, 2016 One of the problems with goff is that there are tons of opinions saying he either isn't good or is just ok. There is general agreeement that the top 2 qbs in this class(lynch and goff) are not as good of prospects over the top 2 qbs last year(Jameis and mariota). Goff looks ok on tape.....he's not anywhere close to a sure thing(and by sure thing I mean sure thing to be decent) If I were in charge, I'd trade down a bit and try to get two of those studs on Alabama's defensive line,..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted January 10, 2016 Report Share Posted January 10, 2016 This formula doesn't work in Cleveland. We cant take a QB and build around him. We have to build the trenches up first then bring in a QB eitehr through draft or FA. Goff will not develop here. We're in antoher rebuild phase. We're going to lose at least 2 starters from our O line, so anybody think Goff is going to come in and do something? No he won't even start next year if/when McCown gets hurt. Than he'll run for his life and be in the protocol within 3 games. Career flounders after that. You wanna waste the 1st pick on that? Why take a QB with the 1st when he's not that virtually sure thing? We're gonna suck for at least a couple years so we'll have a perennially high pick. So why not wait till the right guy is gonna come out instead of overreaching on a project? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gumby73 Posted January 10, 2016 Report Share Posted January 10, 2016 I'll take my chances with a 15 year window with one. IF he's the guy. If not ... keep trying. Who's left in the AFC? Brady, Manning, Ben, Alex Smith. They have all been starters for 10-15 years? Gotta get one, gotta develop him, gotta keep him. Zombo This ^^^ Haslem is the owner. go to his presser at 11:00 to 11:44 (QB) than at 13:40 to 13:55 (build draft) than at 14:30 to 14:50 (JM). Z is dead on & we will be drafting a QB. We Gotta (JM is as good as gone) Develop under/over Josh (perfect) Keep him (Alex Smith ends suitable list of QB in this league.) Can Goff be a Cousins or Hoyer that could be a Bridgewater to get a team to playoffs is the decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Couch Pulls Out Posted January 10, 2016 Report Share Posted January 10, 2016 This formula doesn't work in Cleveland. We cant take a QB and build around him. We have to build the trenches up first then bring in a QB eitehr through draft or FA. Goff will not develop here. We're in antoher rebuild phase. We're going to lose at least 2 starters from our O line, so anybody think Goff is going to come in and do something? No he won't even start next year if/when McCown gets hurt. Than he'll run for his life and be in the protocol within 3 games. Career flounders after that. You wanna waste the 1st pick on that? Why take a QB with the 1st when he's not that virtually sure thing? We're gonna suck for at least a couple years so we'll have a perennially high pick. So why not wait till the right guy is gonna come out instead of overreaching on a project? Because we clearly haven't spent a lot of money and draft picks on our lines. Thank God we found those UDFA's Joe Thomas, Alex Mack, Joel Bitonio, Danny Shelton, Phil Taylor, Mitchell Schwartz, and Cam Erving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaconHound Posted January 10, 2016 Report Share Posted January 10, 2016 If the Browns draft Goff he'll struggle and it will be blamed on a new HC and a poor offensive line, however profootballfocus.com will rank 4 of our 5 OL as future hall of famers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbedward Posted January 10, 2016 Report Share Posted January 10, 2016 Goff is the man. Drafting the rejects nobody else wanted (a LA Brady Quinn, Colt McCoy, Brandon Weeden, and Johnny Manziel) is not even close to drafting the consensus #1 QB prospect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted January 10, 2016 Report Share Posted January 10, 2016 Because we clearly haven't spent a lot of money and draft picks on our lines. Thank God we found those UDFA's Joe Thomas, Alex Mack, Joel Bitonio, Danny Shelton, Phil Taylor, Mitchell Schwartz, and Cam Erving. and? we haven't gotten our lines right. I think that's pretty evident right? Until we do we're gonna suck. I don't care who our QB is, we will suck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbedward Posted January 10, 2016 Report Share Posted January 10, 2016 and? we haven't gotten our lines right. I think that's pretty evident right? Until we do we're gonna suck. I don't care who our QB is, we will suck. If everybody stays - Thomas, Schwartz, and Mack our line is pretty close to being right. We're borderline 4 pro bowlers there with Bitonio. You don't skip a franchise QB because you need a pass rusher, or any of that other silly logic. The consensus #1 is there for the taking this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted January 10, 2016 Report Share Posted January 10, 2016 If everybody stays - Thomas, Schwartz, and Mack our line is pretty close to being right. We're borderline 4 pro bowlers there with Bitonio. You don't skip a franchise QB because you need a pass rusher, or any of that other silly logic. The consensus #1 is there for the taking this year. If the guy is your franchise quarterback no doubt.A quarter pounder with cheese is maybe McDonalds best sandwich but probably won't get you 5 stars on Zagat. WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted January 10, 2016 Report Share Posted January 10, 2016 You don't skip a franchise QB because you need a pass rusher, or any of that other silly logic. There is no franchise QB in this draft. There's only a bunch of "maybe maybe nots". You don't spend a top 10 pick on that with so many defensive talents in this draft. A simple pass rusher? maybe not. A 5 tool defensive lineman that you can build the front 4 around, or a MLB'er that will be the captain of your defense for years to come and make people afraid of going across the middle? Yeah you take that over project QB's. This defense is the worst in the NFL, and will be for years to come if we don't draft talent. I'm simply in no more mood to pass on a Khalil Mack or JJ Watt like talent to participate in another year of Browns QB crapshoot. Tired of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbedward Posted January 10, 2016 Report Share Posted January 10, 2016 If the guy is your franchise quarterback no doubt. A quarter pounder with cheese is maybe McDonalds best sandwich but probably won't get you 5 stars on Zagat. WSS I haven't seen any real arguments against him except for his weight - which isn't that good of one IMO. He's definitely not McDonald's level Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbedward Posted January 10, 2016 Report Share Posted January 10, 2016 There is no franchise QB in this draft. Agree to disagree, but I see it differently. I haven't been as high on any prospect since Luck, so I think he's absolutely worth top 5. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted January 10, 2016 Report Share Posted January 10, 2016 Where's the fun in agreeing to disagree? This formula doesn't work in Cleveland. We cant take a QB and build around him. Sure it can, but you have to start with the right QB... A quarter pounder with cheese is maybe McDonalds best sandwich but probably won't get you 5 stars on Zagat. More of a McDouble fan myself... There is no franchise QB in this draft. There's only a bunch of "maybe maybe nots". Of course there is... Every one of the QBs that becomes a "maybe... yes" is franchise by definition. You are conflating "franchise" with "elite" and/or "sure thing". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoodums19 Posted January 10, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2016 Agree to disagree, but I see it differently. I haven't been as high on any prospect since Luck, so I think he's absolutely worth top 5. Ya that would suck having a franchise QB but not being good enough to get to the SB the first four years. We haven't had a franchise QB since the last time the Bungles won a playoff game ... or the Browns., I'll take my chances with a 15 year window with one. IF he's the guy. If not ... keep trying. Who's left in the AFC? Brady, Manning, Ben, Alex Smith. They have all been starters for 10-15 years? Gotta get one, gotta develop him, gotta keep him. Zombo Agree with what you are saying here. No matter what anyone thinks, quarterback is the most important position in this game. You must have a good one to succeed. Look at all the teams in the playoffs this year, with the only exceptions being Houston, Washington and maybe Minnesota They all have above average or competent quarterbacks at least New England- Brady Denver- Manning Pittsburgh- Roethlisberger Cincinnati- Dalton (Got injured but McCarron was ok) KC- Smith Houston- Hoyer (The only exception on this list, he is off and on) Seattle- Wilson Carolina- Newton Arizona- Palmer Green Bay- Rodgers Minnesota- Bridgewater Washington- Cousins (In good form right now) If you never develop a quarterback properly in this league you can not win Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaconHound Posted January 10, 2016 Report Share Posted January 10, 2016 If everybody stays - Thomas, Schwartz, and Mack our line is pretty close to being right. We're borderline 4 pro bowlers there with Bitonio. You don't skip a franchise QB because you need a pass rusher, or any of that other silly logic. The consensus #1 is there for the taking this year. And what was the Browns record with all 4 playing? 2-8 with wins over the dominant Titans and Ravens. And please don't say it was all Macon's fault because the season hasn't been dead long enough to causally forget how ineffective the line was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbedward Posted January 10, 2016 Report Share Posted January 10, 2016 And what was the Browns record with all 4 playing? 2-8 with wins over the dominant Titans and Ravens. And please don't say it was all Macon's fault because the season hasn't been dead long enough to causally forget how ineffective the line was. Having practice squad receiving corps, no competent tight end blocking, no competent lead blocker, and a running back who keeps his eyes down and misses the hole or falls down at first contact. But let's sit here and say we have the worst offensive line of all time and we need to trade Thomas and part ways with Schwartz and Mack. We have many problems - the hardest void to fill is the position of franchise quarterback. If Goff is the guy, we're going to take him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flugel Posted January 10, 2016 Report Share Posted January 10, 2016 Don't remember the last "sure thing" talent we've drafted (at QB) ...Tim couch in 99'? I wish we had more than our cleaning staff evaluating Donovan McNabb because the NFL team with the worst record in 1998 ended up in the playoffs something like 10 straight years from 2000-2010 (inclusive of 5 NFC Championship appearances). It was thought the Veer Option Offense at Syracuse was too unconventional to consider (which is why a former coach of Favre's like Andy Reid that knew he played in a similar style of offense to that of the one Favre played in at So Miss). Same year we had an expansion draft where we chose a guy that had gambling problems at Maryland (Scott Milanovich) over Kurt Warner. As fans, we weren't paid to understand/research the difference our FO was supposed to. Inevitably that led to 1 more QB preference of Spergon Wynn over Tom Brady just 1 year later in a later round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoodums19 Posted January 10, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2016 There is no franchise QB in this draft. There's only a bunch of "maybe maybe nots". You don't spend a top 10 pick on that with so many defensive talents in this draft. A simple pass rusher? maybe not. A 5 tool defensive lineman that you can build the front 4 around, or a MLB'er that will be the captain of your defense for years to come and make people afraid of going across the middle? Yeah you take that over project QB's. This defense is the worst in the NFL, and will be for years to come if we don't draft talent. I'm simply in no more mood to pass on a Khalil Mack or JJ Watt like talent to participate in another year of Browns QB crapshoot. Tired of it. Here's Goff's stats for this season COMP ATT YDS CMP% YPA LNG TD INT SACK RAT 341 529 4719 64.5 8.92 80 43 13 26 161.3 I wouldn't say that's a "Maybe, maybe not" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbedward Posted January 10, 2016 Report Share Posted January 10, 2016 Here's Goff's stats for this season COMP ATT YDS CMP% YPA LNG TD INT SACK RAT 341 529 4719 64.5 8.92 80 43 13 26 161.3 I wouldn't say that's a "Maybe, maybe not" Ignoring the stats, all you have to do is watch him play. You see the best in class footwork, rapid going through progressions, best in class pocket awareness and accuracy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Opal312 Posted January 10, 2016 Report Share Posted January 10, 2016 Browns should take a pass at both Goff and Lynch. Draft Bosa, Elliot, Wide receivers and Cardale this year. Trade Manziel, Haden, Thomas and get a veteran QB. Or go out and get Kaepernick. They need help at too many positions to risk another crappy QB draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flugel Posted January 10, 2016 Report Share Posted January 10, 2016 Ignoring the stats, all you have to do is watch him play. You see the best in class footwork, rapid going through progressions, best in class pocket awareness and accuracy. Well done! That said, it was tough to ignore a TD to INT ratio of 43 to 13 at a comp % of 64.5. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaconHound Posted January 10, 2016 Report Share Posted January 10, 2016 Having practice squad receiving corps, no competent tight end blocking, no competent lead blocker, and a running back who keeps his eyes down and misses the hole or falls down at first contact. But let's sit here and say we have the worst offensive line of all time and we need to trade Thomas and part ways with Schwartz and Mack. We have many problems - the hardest void to fill is the position of franchise quarterback. If Goff is the guy, we're going to take him. "Play Like A Brown" replaced by "Browns Making Excuses Since 1999". Not saying we have the worst OL in football but saying we have the best is equally wrong. I think the Browns are somewhere in the middle. And to your point we have a lack of "speed" position talent, including Concussion Joe, and we are deficient pretty much everywhere on defense. If Goff was Andrew Luck I'd agree but since he is probably closer to Blaine Gabbert, I'd like to see our defense get a bit better first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaconHound Posted January 10, 2016 Report Share Posted January 10, 2016 Browns should take a pass at both Goff and Lynch. Draft Bosa, Elliot, Wide receivers and Cardale this year. Trade Manziel, Haden, Thomas and get a veteran QB. Or go out and get Kaepernick. They need help at too many positions to risk another crappy QB draft. No Elliott or Cardale unless both are late 3rd round or later. Keep Thomas, trade Manziel and Haden if possible but probably a cut situation. I'd like Kaepernick but depends on who San Fran hires if he is available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tacosman Posted January 10, 2016 Report Share Posted January 10, 2016 Agree to disagree, but I see it differently. I haven't been as high on any prospect since Luck, so I think he's absolutely worth top 5. I have no idea(and let's be real neither do you) whether Goff(or the other guy from memphis for that matter) will be good, but since you're throwing around the word consensus a lot it's also worth pointing out that the top 2 guys in last year's draft had much better grades from the 'experts' than Goff. He will be drafted high in the first round(maybe by us, maybe not), but as far as potential top 5 draft picks at qb go over the last decade he's nowhere close to being near the top of the heap coming out of college. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaconHound Posted January 10, 2016 Report Share Posted January 10, 2016 And to throw a wrench in the mix Goff will get $25 million guaranteed at #2. Kirk Cousins could probably be had for $50 million and you have a better idea on what you have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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