Tim Couch Pulls Out Posted February 9, 2016 Report Share Posted February 9, 2016 I'm not sure how Bosa is considered the closest thing to a sure thing. He's not even the highest rated DE in the draft right now... Is it just because he's a Buckeye? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted February 9, 2016 Report Share Posted February 9, 2016 I'm not sure how Bosa is considered the closest thing to a sure thing. He's not even the highest rated DE in the draft right now... Is it just because he's a Buckeye? It's because he's been the 'consensus best player' for a year or two now, and gipper apparently places a lot of stock in draft scouting from a year ago. Closest to a sure thing? Must be Tunsil, I guess. Outside of that Bosa seems to have a very high floor. Buckner is the only other DE I've seen going above Bosa, but don't know much about him - I assume that's who you mean? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Couch Pulls Out Posted February 9, 2016 Report Share Posted February 9, 2016 It's because he's been the 'consensus best player' for a year or two now, and gipper apparently places a lot of stock in draft scouting from a year ago. Closest to a sure thing? Must be Tunsil, I guess. Outside of that Bosa seems to have a very high floor. Buckner is the only other DE I've seen going above Bosa, but don't know much about him - I assume that's who you mean? I'm not knocking him, just wondering. I just don't see the same sure thing that everyone else sees, I guess. I think Bosa is a little more scheme-dependent, he'd probably fare better as a 4-3 DE than a 3-4 OLB...and I don't see him as a 3-4 DE whatsoever, IMO. Higher floor, absolutely. Bosa will likely be an above average NFL DE for the next 10-12 years, with a couple Pro Bowl years probably thrown in there. But I don't see this truly transcendent talent that would make me want to overlook QB. Buckner has a higher prospect score on NFL (take that for what you will) and I just personally think he has more potential to be a game changing DE than Bosa does. And you draft for what they might do in the NFL, not what they did do in college. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wargograw Posted February 9, 2016 Report Share Posted February 9, 2016 Plus Buckner played in a 3-4. But the fact he played on a pass-happy team (the scout termers he goes against are built for that) in a pass-happy conference scares me. And yes, I realize Oregon runs the ball a lot. But it's always out of the shotgun and not a realistic NFL depiction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Browns1216 Posted February 9, 2016 Report Share Posted February 9, 2016 Bosa is a great player, but as mentioned before his skillset is better suited to a 4-3 defense and as much as I love Ohio State, I wouldn't want Bosa on the Browns because of some off-field issues + there are other very good defensive ends coming out in this draft. off-field issues I have with him: 1.) he originally stated he did not want to play for the Browns, then turned it around and said he'd like to play in Ohio and grow the "Bosa brand". I would rather have a player dedicated to the team, not himself; that kind of diva attitude is off-putting. 2.) the suspension early this year. http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/13346013/ohio-state-buckeyes-suspend-joey-bosa-jalin-marshall-dontre-wilson-corey-smith raises a red flag. I want a player that is 100% dedicated to his team and football. The academic aspect is really troubling if it's true. Realistically, all football players have to do is show up to class to get a passing grade, if he's not dedicated enough for that will he be dedicated enough to study playbooks and tape? No doubt Bosa is a talented football player, but I don't see him as a fit on the Browns. We'll see what happens in April. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted February 9, 2016 Report Share Posted February 9, 2016 Greetings from Germany Guten Morgan... I am simply being egalitarian. I agree... you are incapable of discerning a difference. Again, I would rather take the talent that is considered closer to a guarantee than those that are not. While obviously there is no guarantee that Bosa would be the shit, I am more confident in his chances of success than I am of these QBs being talked about Actually you are arguing "closest", but let's set that aside. How do you compare Bosa's chances in a 3-4 vs. a 4-3? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted February 9, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 9, 2016 No I think it's a fine opinion you want Bosa at #2 - but that's not the idea you've been trying to get across. (where's Camp Bosa?) Almost every big board right now has at least 2 QBs in the top 20 in the overall talent pool - I just don't see how you can lump all the QBs in the same category. I see much less of a drop off from Bosa to Spence, Nassib, Calhoun than I see from Goff to Hackenberg. There's also a real possibility the Tits take Bosa. That is because you see what you want to see....not what may really be out there. You are seeing Goff through orgasmic eyelids. I lump these QBs all together because I think they all should be lumped together. And I am fully aware that the Tits may take Bosa. They should take Bosa. I am only hoping they don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted February 9, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 9, 2016 I'm not sure how Bosa is considered the closest thing to a sure thing. He's not even the highest rated DE in the draft right now... Is it just because he's a Buckeye? Not sure WTF you are looking at. Nearly everyone still has him as the #1 overall prospects. Oh, what....is there someone out there that thinks its hip to be stupid? To not put him at #1. Sure, they may be outliers....but he is as much a consensus #1 pick as anyone we have seen lately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbedward Posted February 9, 2016 Report Share Posted February 9, 2016 That is because you see what you want to see....not what may really be out there. I'm pretty sure the case is the opposite. You say "no QB is a first round talent" based on a report from before the college season even started and ignore everything that disagrees with you (literally everybody disagrees with you) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted February 9, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 9, 2016 It's because he's been the 'consensus best player' for a year or two now, and gipper apparently places a lot of stock in draft scouting from a year ago. Yes....and also nearly every scouting service out there right now, today. Closest to a sure thing? Must be Tunsil, I guess. Outside of that Bosa seems to have a very high floor. Buckner is the only other DE I've seen going above Bosa, but don't know much about him - I assume that's who you mean? Tunsil is rated high in a lot of things.....rarely above Bosa. That would be fine with me if the Titans draft Tunsil #1. They probably need him. Buckner? I guess that was like somebody rating RGIII as better than Luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted February 9, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 9, 2016 I'm not knocking him, just wondering. I just don't see the same sure thing that everyone else sees, I guess. Sure....you don't see what all the experts see. I think Bosa is a little more scheme-dependent, he'd probably fare better as a 4-3 DE than a 3-4 OLB...and I don't see him as a 3-4 DE whatsoever, IMO. Higher floor, absolutely. Bosa will likely be an above average NFL DE for the next 10-12 years, with a couple Pro Bowl years probably thrown in there. But I don't see this truly transcendent talent that would make me want to overlook QB. No, perhaps not....if you had Andrew Luck or Peyton Manning available at QB.....you don't. Buckner has a higher prospect score on NFL (take that for what you will) and I just personally think he has more potential to be a game changing DE than Bosa does. And you draft for what they might do in the NFL, not what they did do in college. And everybody else is wrong....but you and the one guy out there that you found that thought Buckner was better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted February 9, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 9, 2016 Guten Morgan... I agree... you are incapable of discerning a difference. Not with this group of QBs. No. I don't think there are vast differences in the talent among the first group and the latter group. Actually you are arguing "closest", but let's set that aside. Fine....Bosa is the closest thing to a sure thing.....not a closer thing. Happy now? How do you compare Bosa's chances in a 3-4 vs. a 4-3? I don't think it matters. He is a football player. He will tackle people and rush the passer from whichever system he plays in. I said he reminds me of Howie Long, who played DE in the 3-4. He was considered the ultimate 3-4 DE. Ray Horton runs the 3-4 I believe. Bosa may have played in the 4-3 in college....but he moved all over the place. He would do fine in whatever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbedward Posted February 9, 2016 Report Share Posted February 9, 2016 And you cite the experts when it comes to Bosa, but you ignore them when it comes to every QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted February 9, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 9, 2016 I'm pretty sure the case is the opposite. You say "no QB is a first round talent" based on a report from before the college season even started and ignore everything that disagrees with you (literally everybody disagrees with you) Again, yes they will be drafted in the first round.....or should I say overdrafted. All I am saying is that with our #2 pick.....we would be reaching mightily to take a QB there. If we had the #10-15 pick, it may not be so bad. But we need #2 talent with our #2 pick. We don't need the QB equivalent of Trent Richardson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted February 9, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 9, 2016 And you cite the experts when it comes to Bosa, but you ignore them when it comes to every QB. the experts disagree on the QBs. They don't disagree on Bosa nearly as much. I guess you want another Trent Richardson...not much I can do to change your mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted February 9, 2016 Report Share Posted February 9, 2016 Again, yes they will be drafted in the first round.....or should I say overdrafted. All I am saying is that with our #2 pick.....we would be reaching mightily to take a QB there. If we had the #10-15 pick, it may not be so bad. But we need #2 talent with our #2 pick. We don't need the QB equivalent of Trent Richardson. More like a quarterback who probably would have slid down as far as 22 had we not snapped him up. WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbedward Posted February 9, 2016 Report Share Posted February 9, 2016 the experts disagree on the QBs. They don't disagree on the fact that they are top 30 on overall talent. They don't disagree on Bosa nearly as much. They're starting to diverge on the #1 overall DE in the draft, while they're converging on the #1 overall QB I guess you want another Trent Richardson...not much I can do to change your mind. I saw a CBS local Dallas big board today. I thought it was interesting because it was so different - it was something like #1 Myles Jack, #3 Elliot, #7 Goff, #8 Bosa. (Keep in mind basically every big board out there ranks Goff in the top 10). But it said something about how even though they ranked Elliot as the #3 overall talent - he won't go anywhere close to #3 overall because of positional value, whereas Goff as the #7 overall talent will jump a few spots because positional value is so high for a QB. With that in mind, I have no idea what Trent Richardson has to do with anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted February 9, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 9, 2016 the experts disagree on the QBs. They don't disagree on the fact that they are top 30 on overall talent. Yea, they should all rank about #30 They don't disagree on Bosa nearly as much. They're starting to diverge on the #1 overall DE in the draft, while they're converging on the #1 overall QB Prove it. Give the current draft prospect listing of at least 5 different respected draft services on both of these guys. I guess you want another Trent Richardson...not much I can do to change your mind. I saw a CBS local Dallas big board today. I thought it was interesting because it was so different - it was something like #1 Myles Jack, #3 Elliot, #7 Goff, #8 Bosa. (Keep in mind basically every big board out there ranks Goff in the top 10). But it said something about how even though they ranked Elliot as the #3 overall talent - he won't go anywhere close to #3 overall because of positional value, whereas Goff as the #7 overall talent will jump a few spots because positional value is so high for a QB. Fuck CBS local. CBS National ranks Bosa #1 overall prospect. In your research give me CBS, Fox, NBC, ESPN...national. None of your fly by night shit. None of those guys opinions are any better than yours or mine. With that in mind, I have no idea what Trent Richardson has to do with anything. You take one of these QBs at #2, you are getting the QB version of TR. A high draft bust. (You really couldn't follow that analogy?) I am saying that is a possibility. Zombo compared Goff to Paul McDonald. You are probably too young to remember Paul McDonald. Look him up....and see what we will be getting in Goff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbedward Posted February 9, 2016 Report Share Posted February 9, 2016 CBS national ranks Goff #4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Couch Pulls Out Posted February 9, 2016 Report Share Posted February 9, 2016 Not sure WTF you are looking at. Nearly everyone still has him as the #1 overall prospects. Oh, what....is there someone out there that thinks its hip to be stupid? To not put him at #1. Sure, they may be outliers....but he is as much a consensus #1 pick as anyone we have seen lately. I'm looking at the rankings on NFL.com that clearly have DeForest Buckner rated as a better DE prospect than Bosa. Further, Bosa is far from the #1 overall prospect - he's more like the 7th. I happen to trust the NFL official board moreso than the CBS - considering as these guys are getting drafted to play in the NFL and not CBS. http://www.nfl.com/draft/2016/tracker?icampaign=draft-sub_nav_bar-drafteventpage-tracker#dt-tabs:dt-by-grade/dt-by-position-input:s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Couch Pulls Out Posted February 9, 2016 Report Share Posted February 9, 2016 And everybody else is wrong....but you and the one guy out there that you found that thought Buckner was better. By "one guy" do you mean the official NFL draft board? Hey, I guess if I had to pick "one guy", I could do worse than the NFL. Then again, I'm arguing with a guy who thinks there's no difference between the 3-4 and the 4-3... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted February 9, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 9, 2016 By "one guy" do you mean the official NFL draft board? Hey, I guess if I had to pick "one guy", I could do worse than the NFL. Then again, I'm arguing with a guy who thinks there's no difference between the 3-4 and the 4-3... There is NO official NFL draft board. There are 32 official NFL draft boards.....those kept by the teams. Everything else is unofficial. NFL.com produces articles by writers. Their rankings are no more official than Kiper's. And like I said, you found one source. List 10 others and see what they say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted February 9, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 9, 2016 CBS national ranks Goff #4 They are also saying that Wentz, Prescott and Brandon Allen are QBs on the rise. And the Cowboys draft #4.....maybe that would be a good place for Goff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Couch Pulls Out Posted February 9, 2016 Report Share Posted February 9, 2016 There is NO official NFL draft board. There are 32 official NFL draft boards.....those kept by the teams. Everything else is unofficial. NFL.com produces articles by writers. Their rankings are no more official than Kiper's. And like I said, you found one source. List 10 others and see what they say. So if none of these are official, I'll just choose to believe the NFL endorsed opinion rather than any cut rate third party opinion out there. Good to know we're in agreement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted February 9, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 9, 2016 So if none of these are official, I'll just choose to believe the NFL endorsed opinion rather than any cut rate third party opinion out there. Good to know we're in agreement. So....if the Browns have the #2 pick....and Bosa and Buckner are both available....who would you take? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted February 9, 2016 Report Share Posted February 9, 2016 So....if the Browns have the #2 pick....and Bosa and Buckner are both available....who would you take? Myles Jack... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyceRolls Posted February 9, 2016 Report Share Posted February 9, 2016 guess I've gotta break my own rule and argue with Gip.... Jesus. its hilarious that you ask for multiple sources from people when your "source" was "there was a guy who said something once in the not so recent past, and I blindly agree without doing any independent player evaluation." I've gotta respect your dogged, Skip Bayless style approach, but here's the thing, Gip. Your personal worth isn't directly tied to being 100% correct on your first take. You don't have to be Skip Bayless and make paper thin arguments and excuses which back up your initial claim. You're a human being, you are valuable, no one will think less of you for abandoning a shaky, out-dated, borderline re-tarded argument... Of course you never will. You will reply to this post and interject your snarky little responses in a contrasting color and continue to tell the world that Tim Tebow, Brandon Weeden and Johnny Manziel are destined for greatness and that Lebron James isn't Very good. Cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Couch Pulls Out Posted February 9, 2016 Report Share Posted February 9, 2016 So....if the Browns have the #2 pick....and Bosa and Buckner are both available....who would you take? Carson Wentz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasAg1969 Posted February 10, 2016 Report Share Posted February 10, 2016 Myles Jack... If he plays anything like Von Miller, you may be onto something there. Does he have 4.4 speed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted February 10, 2016 Report Share Posted February 10, 2016 How do you compare Bosa's chances in a 3-4 vs. a 4-3? I don't think it matters. He is a football player. He will tackle people and rush the passer from whichever system he plays in. I said he reminds me of Howie Long, who played DE in the 3-4. He was considered the ultimate 3-4 DE. Ray Horton runs the 3-4 I believe. Bosa may have played in the 4-3 in college....but he moved all over the place. He would do fine in whatever. Sure... guess I've gotta break my own rule and argue with Gip.... Jesus. lol... thanks for playing our game... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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