The Gipper Posted February 12, 2016 Report Share Posted February 12, 2016 I know a lot of you think the coming draft is full of good potential QBs. I am not so sure, but here is a related topic: A debate has often been held about which QB draft class was the best. The following are the QBs that were taken in the regular draft in many years since 1950. Decent QBs listed. I have bolded the HOF QBs, Italics for certain future HOF. 1950 Tobin Rote, Eddie LeBaron 1952 Billie Wade, Babe Parilli, Ed Brown 1955 John Unitas 1956 Earl Morrall, Bart Starr 1957 John Brodie, Len Dawson, Milt Plum, Sonny Jurgenson 1960 Don Meredith, Charlie Johnson 1961 Norm Snead, Billy Kilmer, Fran Tarkenton 1962 Roman Gabriel, John Hadl 1964 Roger Staubach 1965 Craig Morton, Joe Namath 1967 Bob Griese 1968 Greg Landry, Ken Stabler 1970 Terry Bradshaw 1971 Jim Plunkett, Archie Manning, Dan Pastorini, Lynn Dickey, Ken Anderson, Joe Theisman 1973 Bert Jones, Ron Jaworski, Dan Fouts, Joe Ferguson 1975 Steve Bartkowski, Steve Grogan 1978 Doug Williams, Bill Kenney 1979 Phil Simms, Joe Montana 1983 John Elway, Jim Kelley, Ken O'Brien, Dan Marino 1984 Boomer Esiason, Jeff Hostetler, Jay Schroeder 1985 Randall Cunningham (Bernie Kosar, supplemental) 1986 Jim Everett, Mark Rypien 1987 Vinny Testaverde, Chris Miller, Jim Harbaugh, Rich Gannon, Steve Beurelein, Don Majkowski 1988 Chris Chandler, Stan Humphries 1989 Troy Aikman 1991 Brett Favre 1992 Jeff Blake, Brad Johnson 1993 Mark Brunell, Elvis Grbac, Trent Green, Drew Bledsoe 1995 Steve McNair, Kerry Collins, Kordell Stewart 1998 Peyton Manning, Brian Griese, Matt Hasselbeck 1999 Donovan McNabb, Daunte Culpepper, Aaron Brooks 2000 Chad Pennington, Marc Bulger, Tom Brady 2001 Michael Vick, Drew Brees 2003 Carson Palmer 2004 Eli Manning, Phil Rivers, Ben Roethlisbeger, Matt Schaub 2005 Aaron Rodgers, Jason campbell, Kyle Orton, Matt Cassell 2008 Matt Ryan, Joe Flacco 2009 Matt Stafford, Mark Sanchez 2011 Cam Newton, Andy Dalton, Colin Kaepernick 2012 Andrew Luck, RGIII, Ryan Tannehill, Russell Wilson, Nick Foles 2014 Blake Bortles, Teddy Twatwater, Derek Carr 2015 Jameis Winston, Marcus Mariota Rank say your top 5 classes of all time from the above list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted February 12, 2016 Report Share Posted February 12, 2016 1983 John Elway, Jim Kelley, Ken O'Brien, Dan Marino 2004 Eli Manning, Phil Rivers, Ben Roethlisbeger, Matt Schaub 1971 Jim Plunkett, Archie Manning, Dan Pastorini, Lynn Dickey, Ken Anderson, Joe Theisman 1957 John Brodie, Len Dawson, Milt Plum, Sonny Jurgenson 1979 Phil Simms, Joe Montana Honorable Mention: 1973 Bert Jones, Ron Jaworski, Dan Fouts, Joe Ferguson TBD 2014 Blake Bortles, Teddy Twatwater, Derek Carr 2015 Jameis Winston, Marcus Mariota Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted February 12, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 12, 2016 My Top 5 I have to rank: 1983 Three Hall of Famers, plus a very good Ken O'Brien 1957 Two HOFers, plus Brodie has been borderline but just out. Plum productive career 2004 Three potential HOF 1971 Just a bunch of good QBs...No HOF, but a few just below the borderline. My #5 is kind of up for grabs. 2012 could be it....Luck/Wilson alone so far puts them at good place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted February 12, 2016 Report Share Posted February 12, 2016 1983 John Elway, Jim Kelley, Ken O'Brien, Dan Marino.....everybodies #1, right? 2004 Eli Manning, Phil Rivers, Ben Roethlisbeger, Matt Schaub 1971 Jim Plunkett, Archie Manning, Dan Pastorini, Lynn Dickey, Ken Anderson, Joe Theisman 1973 Bert Jones, Ron Jaworski, Dan Fouts, Joe Ferguson 1979 Phil Simms, Joe Montana Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted February 12, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 12, 2016 1983 John Elway, Jim Kelley, Ken O'Brien, Dan Marino 2004 Eli Manning, Phil Rivers, Ben Roethlisbeger, Matt Schaub 1971 Jim Plunkett, Archie Manning, Dan Pastorini, Lynn Dickey, Ken Anderson, Joe Theisman 1957 John Brodie, Len Dawson, Milt Plum, Sonny Jurgenson 1979 Phil Simms, Joe Montana Honorable Mention:1973 Bert Jones, Ron Jaworski, Dan Fouts, Joe Ferguson TBD 2014 Blake Bortles, Teddy Twatwater, Derek Carr 2015 Jameis Winston, Marcus Mariota I think I might choose the '73 draft over '79. '79 relies mainly on Joe Cool....but I think '73 had more better QBs. Numbers count some...that is why 1971 is in there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted February 12, 2016 Report Share Posted February 12, 2016 I'd add 2012 as a TBD - with Luck and Wilson alone it's pretty good. Also got Cousins, Tannehill and Osweiler, who could go either way. Oh, and Brandon Fucking Weeden. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted February 12, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 12, 2016 Let's do the other side of the coin: Candidates for the Worst QB draft class. There have been some years actually where a QB was not taken in the first round. I am not including those years. I am looking at years where a number of QBs were taken in Rounds 1 and 2....and they just about all were Bust. Here, again, I am only looking at the first two rounds......and only going back to 1970 (when scouting is supposed to have improved drastically). : 1972 Jerry Tagge, John Reaves, Pat Sullivan 1980 Marc Wilson, Mark Malone 1990 Jeff George, Andre Ware 1992 David Klingler, Tommy Maddox, Matt Blundin, Tony Sacca 1994 Heath Shuler, Trent Dilfer 2002 David Carr, Joey Harrington, Patrick Ramsey 2006 Vince Young, Matt Leinert, Jay Cutler, Kellen Clemens, Tavaris Jackson 2007 Jamarcus Russell, Brady Quinn, Kevin Kolb, John Beck 2010 Sam Bradford, Tim Tebow, Jimmy Clausen Note: I thought about putting 1991 in here, the year of Dan McGwire, Todd Marinovich and Browning Nagle....but that year got eliminated because it also contained Brett Favre. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted February 12, 2016 Report Share Posted February 12, 2016 I think I might choose the '73 draft over '79. '79 relies mainly on Joe Cool....but I think '73 had more better QBs. Numbers count some...that is why 1971 is in there. More better? Such grammar! Sure that argument can be made. It's exactly why I have the 1971 class is as high as it is. Also why other, good, two-QB classes were passed over. But there are fewer in the '73 class than the '71, and the weighting of my GOAT with an assist from Sims made my decision for me. Still it was close... thus the honorable mention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted February 12, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 12, 2016 Let's do the other side of the coin: Candidates for the Worst QB draft class. There have been some years actually where a QB was not taken in the first round. I am not including those years. I am looking at years where a number of QBs were taken in Rounds 1 and 2....and they just about all were Bust. Here, again, I am only looking at the first two rounds......and only going back to 1970 (when scouting is supposed to have improved drastically). : 1972 Jerry Tagge, John Reaves, Pat Sullivan 1980 Marc Wilson, Mark Malone 1990 Jeff George, Andre Ware 1992 David Klingler, Tommy Maddox, Matt Blundin, Tony Sacca 1994 Heath Shuler, Trent Dilfer 2002 David Carr, Joey Harrington, Patrick Ramsey 2006 Vince Young, Matt Leinert, Jay Cutler, Kellen Clemens, Tavaris Jackson 2007 Jamarcus Russell, Brady Quinn, Kevin Kolb, John Beck 2010 Sam Bradford, Tim Tebow, Jimmy Clausen Note: I thought about putting 1991 in here, the year of Dan McGwire, Todd Marinovich and Browning Nagle....but that year got eliminated because it also contained Brett Favre. This is a much more difficult choice. I will eliminate 1994 from the list as Dilfer did take a team to a Super Bowl win. I am debating about 2006 because Cutler has played some very decent football...but those other 4? Blechh. How about: 1. 2007 2. 1992 3. 2010 4. 2002 5. 1972 Moral of the story....for all of you touting this group of QB draft candidates for 2016: look above...it is not beyond the realm of possibility that it could join this list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted February 12, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 12, 2016 More better? Such grammar! How would you have said it? Sure that argument can be made. It's exactly why I have the 1971 class is as high as it is. Also why other, good, two-QB classes were passed over. But there are fewer in the '73 class than the '71, and the weighting of my GOAT with an assist from Sims made my decision for me. Would you not then have to have gone with 2000? Brady/Montana, pretty close. Simms though may beat out Pennington. Still it was close... thus the honorable mention. Edit: How about this matchup: Montana and Simms or Peyton and Hasselbeck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted February 12, 2016 Report Share Posted February 12, 2016 1972 Jerry Tagge, John Reaves, Pat Sullivan Pass on the effort, but will offer a comment... Interesting that since 1970, "when scouting improved", you came up with 9 candidates for a worst list, but 30 candidate classes for your best list. I like the odds... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted February 12, 2016 Report Share Posted February 12, 2016 Hard to pick who is the worst, so to speak.....so Im gonna base mine on the most highly touted flops..... 2007 Jamarcus Russell, Brady Quinn, Kevin Kolb, John Beck 1990 Jeff George, Andre Ware 2002 David Carr, Joey Harrington, Patrick Ramsey 2006 Vince Young, Matt Leinert, Jay Cutler, Kellen Clemens, Tavaris Jackson 1991 Dan McGwire, Todd Marinovich, Browning Nagle....even with Farve, Ill still take '91....McGwire and Marinovich were monumental fails... More better? Such grammar! Im waffling on this....may be acceptable in context...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Couch Pulls Out Posted February 12, 2016 Report Share Posted February 12, 2016 This is a much more difficult choice. I will eliminate 1994 from the list as Dilfer did take a team to a Super Bowl win. I am debating about 2006 because Cutler has played some very decent football...but those other 4? Blechh. How about: 1. 2007 2. 1992 3. 2010 4. 2002 5. 1972 Moral of the story....for all of you touting this group of QB draft candidates for 2016: look above...it is not beyond the realm of possibility that it could join this list. And it could also join the list of best draft classes? Whatever point you were trying to make failed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted February 12, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 12, 2016 I know a lot of you think the coming draft is full of good potential QBs. I am not so sure, but here is a related topic: A debate has often been held about which QB draft class was the best. The following are the QBs that were taken in the regular draft in many years since 1950. Decent QBs listed. I have bolded the HOF QBs, Italics for certain future HOF. 1950 Tobin Rote, Eddie LeBaron 1952 Billie Wade, Babe Parilli, Ed Brown 1955 John Unitas 1956 Earl Morrall, Bart Starr (giving Morrall credit for playing most of 1972 Dolphins seasons) 1957 John Brodie, Len Dawson, Milt Plum, Sonny Jurgenson 1960 Don Meredith, Charlie Johnson 1961 Norm Snead, Billy Kilmer, Fran Tarkenton 1962 Roman Gabriel, John Hadl 1964 Roger Staubach 1965 Craig Morton, Joe Namath 1967 Bob Griese 1968 Greg Landry, Ken Stabler 1970 Terry Bradshaw 1971 Jim Plunkett, Archie Manning, Dan Pastorini, Lynn Dickey, Ken Anderson, Joe Theisman 1973 Bert Jones, Ron Jaworski, Dan Fouts, Joe Ferguson 1975 Steve Bartkowski, Steve Grogan 1978 Doug Williams, Bill Kenney 1979 Phil Simms, Joe Montana 1983 John Elway, Jim Kelley, Ken O'Brien, Dan Marino 1984 Boomer Esiason, Jeff Hostetler, Jay Schroeder 1985 Randall Cunningham (Bernie Kosar, supplemental) 1986 Jim Everett, Mark Rypien 1987 Vinny Testaverde, Chris Miller, Jim Harbaugh, Rich Gannon, Steve Beurelein, Don Majkowski 1988 Chris Chandler, Stan Humphries 1989 Troy Aikman 1991 Brett Favre 1992 Jeff Blake, Brad Johnson 1993 Mark Brunell, Elvis Grbac, Trent Green, Drew Bledsoe 1995 Steve McNair, Kerry Collins, Kordell Stewart 1998 Peyton Manning, Brian Griese, Matt Hasselbeck 1999 Donovan McNabb, Daunte Culpepper, Aaron Brooks 2000 Chad Pennington, Marc Bulger, Tom Brady 2001 Michael Vick, Drew Brees 2003 Carson Palmer 2004 Eli Manning, Phil Rivers, Ben Roethlisbeger, Matt Schaub 2005 Aaron Rodgers, Jason campbell, Kyle Orton, Matt Cassell 2008 Matt Ryan, Joe Flacco 2009 Matt Stafford, Mark Sanchez 2011 Cam Newton, Andy Dalton, Colin Kaepernick 2012 Andrew Luck, RGIII, Ryan Tannehill, Russell Wilson, Nick Foles 2014 Blake Bortles, Teddy Twatwater, Derek Carr 2015 Jameis Winston, Marcus Mariota Rank say your top 5 classes of all time from the above list. Above I have highlighted all QBs who have won a championship....for what that's worth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted February 12, 2016 Report Share Posted February 12, 2016 Hard to pick who is the worst, so to speak.....so Im gonna base mine on the most highly touted flops..... Im waffling on this....may be acceptable in context...? It is indeed. WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted February 12, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 12, 2016 And it could also join the list of best draft classes? Whatever point you were trying to make failed. It didn't fail....it was a precautionary point. We just don't know the future of this future draft class. It could join either camp.....you don't have a fucking clue what will happen. Neither do I. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbedward Posted February 12, 2016 Report Share Posted February 12, 2016 It didn't fail....it was a precautionary point. We just don't know the future of this future draft class. It could join either camp.....you don't have a fucking clue what will happen. Neither do I. Lets hope it joins the best class group...and we don't end up looking back and crying because we're the ones who drafted JP Losman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted February 12, 2016 Report Share Posted February 12, 2016 It didn't fail....it was a precautionary point. We just don't know the future of this future draft class. It could join either camp.....you don't have a fucking clue what will happen. Neither do I. Exactly... It's all about the odds... and 3:1 ain't bad... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasAg1969 Posted February 12, 2016 Report Share Posted February 12, 2016 Im waffling on this....may be acceptable in context...? I consulted my English teacher wife and she says that it was incorrect as originally written. She's in agreement with Tour. I told her that makes her one sick puppy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted February 12, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 12, 2016 Lets hope it joins the best class group...and we don't end up looking back and crying because we're the ones who drafted JP Losman. We did that in 2012. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbedward Posted February 12, 2016 Report Share Posted February 12, 2016 We did that in 2012. And many more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted February 12, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 12, 2016 Exactly... It's all about the odds... and 3:1 ain't bad... What I did with the "good QB" list is list all the decent QBs taken every year. With the bad classes, I didn' take every year that a really bad QB was taken ...just the years when no good QBs were taken. That is why I eliminated 1991....as bad as it was. Even going back to the first year I listed: 1970....I didn't list that year as while there were several bad QBs, it still had Terry Bradshaw. The parameters that I used was not the same for both lists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted February 12, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 12, 2016 I consulted my English teacher wife and she says that it was incorrect as originally written. She's in agreement with Tour. I told her that makes her one sick puppy. Well, go back and ask her what the right way was to say it. "1971 had more good QBs than most other years" ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted February 12, 2016 Report Share Posted February 12, 2016 That list got me to thinking, so I went back and looked at all the QB drafts for the last 30 years.....and my calculation has the "best of class" QB being picked first only 11 times.....meaning 19 times, the perceived best QB really wasnt......they were wrong 66% of the time and right 33%.... Food for thought.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted February 12, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 12, 2016 That list got me to thinking, so I went back and looked at all the QB drafts for the last 30 years.....and my calculation has the "best of class" QB being picked first only 11 times.....meaning 19 times, the perceived best QB really wasnt......they were wrong 66% of the time and right 33%.... Food for thought.... Interesting.....let's eat that: Here is the list of years where the First QB taken is the best QB of the draft year, going back to 1970: 1970 Bradshaw 1974 Danny White 1976 Richard Todd 1978 Doug Williams 1980 Marc Wilson (though some could say Eric Hipple) 1983 John Elway....though some could argue for Marino 1984 Boomer Esiason 1985 Randall Cunningham (regular draft...Kosar in supp...arguable) 1986 Jim Everett 1987 Vinny Testaverde...though Rich Gannon arguable 1989 Troy Aikman 1993 Drew Bledsoe 1995 Steve McNair 1996 Tony Banks 1998 Peyton Manning 2003 Carson Palmer 2004 Eli Manning....though BR/Rivers arguable 2008 Matt Ryan...though Flacco arguable 2009 Matt Stafford 2010 Sam Bradford 2011 Cam Newton The following years are where the first QB taken was NOT the best to come out of that class. I give the best and which order he was taken in the draft among QBs, and then the guy that was taken first that year: 1971 Ken Anderson 5th QB taken.....Plunkett first 1972 Brian Sipe 12th QB .....Jerry Tagge 1st 1973 Dan Fouts 6th.....Bert Jones 1st 1975 Steve Grogan 3rd...Steve Bartkowski 1st 1977 Tommy Kramer 2d...Steve Pisarkewiscz 1st 1979 Joe Montana 4th....Jack Thompson 1st 1981 Neil Lomax 2d...Rich Campbell 1st 1982 Jim McMahon 2d....Art Schlichter 1st 1988 Chris Chandler 2d Tom Tupa 1st 1990 Neil O'Donnell 5th....Jeff George 1st 1991 Brett Favre 3rd...Dan McGwire 1st 1992 Brad Johnson 13th....David Klingler 1st 1994 Gus Frerotte or Trent Dilfer 6th or 2d...Heath Shuler 1st 1997 Jake Plummer 2d...Jim Drukenmiller 1st 1999 Donovan McNabb 2d...Tim Couch 1st 2000 Tom Brady 7th....Chad Pennington 1st 2001 Drew Brees 2d...Michael Vick 1st 2002 David Garrard 5th....David Carr 1st 2005 Aaron Rodgers 2d....Alex Smith 1st 2006 Jay Cutler 3rd....Vince Young 1st 2007 Trent Edwards 6th...Jamarcus Russell 1st 2012 Russell Wilson 6th......though some can argue that #1...Andrew Luck may still be better 2013 Geno Smith 2d....EJ Manual 1st (arguable I have not done this for 2014/2015...still too early to tell I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted February 12, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 12, 2016 Here is this note about the Browns.....they have only ever twice in their draft history taken the the first QB taken in a draft: 1999 with Tim Couch 1954 with Bobby Garrett. Both of these were taken with the #1 overall pick. They have never gotten the first QB available in a draft any other time...no matter how far down the draft the first QB was taken. The other exception of course is Kosar in the Supplemental draft. Yes, we all know that they may be in a position to take the first QB to be taken in this draft. Unless someone jumps them with a trade to the Titans to get a QB at #1, they could do that this year, if that is what they want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted February 12, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 12, 2016 Here is more info. Teams that have taken the first QB taken in a draft the most times. Again, this is not #1 overall choice....it could be a late first round....or even later round....its just that these teams took the first QB this number of times. This goes all the way back to 1936 when the first draft was held: Colts 8 times (this includes the first Colt franchise in 1950.....current Colts franchise 7 times) Redskins 5 times Cardinals 5 times Rams 5 times 49ers 5 times Bears 4 times Packers 4 times Lions 4 times Bengals 4 times Patriots 2 times plus 2 times in AFL draft Cowboys 3 times Falcons 3 times Bucs 3 times Oilers/Tits 3 times Jets 2 times plus 1 time in AFL (Namath) Raiders 2 times plus 1 time in AFL Eagles 2 times Browns 2 times Steelers 1 time Seahawks 1 time Texans 1 time Panthers 1 time Bills 1 time Jags 1 time Chargers 1 time (Eli...traded) Broncos 1 time in AFL. The Saints, Vikings, Giants, Chiefs, Ravens and Dolphins have never selected the first QB taken in any draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted February 12, 2016 Report Share Posted February 12, 2016 I consulted my English teacher wife and she says that it was incorrect as originally written. She's in agreement with Tour. I told her that makes her one sick puppy. lmao... I figured you'd get her involved sooner or later. Was she also not a Manziel fan? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted February 12, 2016 Report Share Posted February 12, 2016 These are among the better quarterbacks and they would be called 'better quarterbacks' and there would be more of them. Pretty simple. WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasAg1969 Posted February 13, 2016 Report Share Posted February 13, 2016 lmao... I figured you'd get her involved sooner or later. Was she also not a Manziel fan? Didn't I just say she was one sick puppy? Draw your own conclusions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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