QB or Defensive Line/Edge Rusher at #2?

[Flugel]

While Gipper has done a nice job showing us perfect QBs for various franchises haven't always come in round 1 - the same can be said for defensive linemen and edge rushers. There's a lot of Pro Bowl Edge Rushers from the black and urine that didn't get drafted in round 1 from Lloyd to Porter to Gildon to Harrison to Woodley to even Chad Brown while some of Pittsburgh's first round draftees like Florida's Huey Richardson and Georgia's alleged sack machine Jarvis Jones were major disappointments. Seems like the patience of training a prospect via backing up a Pro Bowl performer helped quite a bit. What's to say Nate Orchard doesn't possess such upside as some of those non-first round picks just mentioned for our DC (who got his NFL coaching diapers & potty training from Dick LeBeau via that system)?

 

We have yet to see a first round draft pick on the Defensive Line/Edge Rusher become the difference between winning and losing. Courtney Brown, Big $, Kam Wimbley, Phil Taylor never really justified their draft slots here at all for the expectation. Shelton looks like he can morph into a more consistent performer by getting his pad heights down - very doable. Courtney Brown slayed the pre-draft workouts with a resume loaded with countless backside clampdown tackles for losses in college. Basically, olines reach blocking toward playside where the last defensive guy on the backside end doesn't get touched. The 1 telling performance was when the Missedagain Wolverines decided not to feed those backside clampdown give-mes in preference to running right AT Courtney Brown. The school up north owned the TOP while Brown was unable to advertise the ability to dominate vrs an NFL caliber opponent on the schedule to help get his defense off the field. He looked every bit as helpless as Bruce Smith vrs Jumbo Elliott in the SB where NY set 2 record length TD scoring drives of over 13 minutes and 11 minutes challenging the olays and spin moves of a HOF DE. If you swim move a shark - he's gonna eat you! Along the same line, did anyone see the 2nd half of the Michigan State vrs Ohio State where Sparty was down to their 3rd string QB in heavy rains/winds advertising the predictability of ONLY running the football? If you did watch that game (2nd half in particular) and their game tying and go ahead drives as well the drive where they missed a FG attempt - they ran right AT Joey Bosa and sometimes it was just a tall skinny TE #83 isolated 1 on 1 with a down block taking Mr Wonderful from 1 side of the tv screen to the other regardless of excuses. The time to DOMINATE the situation and win the game ended up with an excuse list longer than my posts. When Courtney Brown went on IR - we found our Pro Bowl Edge in Jamir Miller.

 

This looks like a deep draft for the defensive line - especially the DT position so we could have some gems at the top of round 2 or 3 or 4 and throughout. I'm more worried about our LBers in coverage dating back to the last time Horton was here. Our secondary played well vrs the pass but it felt like it was at the expense of our LBers getting bulls-eyed in the flats, hook zones and grey areas. I don't remember a lot of varied fronts despite the promises of them. That said, we now have a very instinctive Dansby for 1 hook zone. Kirksey was drafted for his instincts vrs the pass so maybe Horton has a better niche? Meanwhile, I liked the progress I saw from Orchard as the season went on plus the guy could tackle. Even if we improve our pass rush - if we remain a liability against the quick short passes where our LBers are supposed to be, it has to be an improved layer to what Horton worked with last time here.

 

Speaking about our liabilities with defending short passes, do you remember what our bionic armed QBs like Derek Anderson and Brandon We-Done struggled most with? Completing short passes and give-me's underneath. For all the years we've been inconsistent at protecting passers, how many years since 1999 have we been good at executing screen passes to exploit aggressive pass rushes/blitz schemes? I don't remember us being good at this the entire time we've been unable to make the playoffs. We have a weapon in Duke Johnson that can really exploit LBers in coverage or bury the blitz; but another QB that can't hit Lake Erie from the wet rocks touching it - makes him more of a Rip Van Winkle than a Herman Fontenot. Infante arrived here in 86 with a mentality we don't need two thousand yard rushers especially if we can add over 120 receptions from our RB position in a league dying to blitz the cement shoes of Bernie Kosar.

 

If the Titans don't need a QB at #1 overall, we pretty much have ourselves a pick of the litter situation with the most important position in football today. The best Left Tackle in football isn't going to be around forever so I'm pretty excited we have 2 very intriguing QB prospects on our door step. I don't have a preference. I see a lot of similarities between Wentz and Jim Kelly especially in terms of once playing LBer in high school which carries a toughness intangible necessary today. I REALLY like that he can consistently throw a bunch of Darrin Chiaverini types open as his critics can't wait to remind us about closing speeds of NFL corners instead. He did that at a championship level. The biggest knock I have can also play into his favor. He only has 3 years of starting experience at the QB position. Yes, there's a learning curve ahead but he got real good real quick sporting ideal football intellect. We're not drafting rear view - we're drafting upside ahead. I see a lot of goodies the right NFL staff should be able to tap. Big QB? Check. Strong arm? Check. Wins games? Check. Pocket presence? Check (loved ability to move around in pocket while keeping eyes downfield an Senior Bowl). Athletic/Mobile? Check. Accurate? Check. The impressive film I saw on Goff pretty much matched the endorsements of Camp Goff in here. I don't see a bad choice here even if Dallas moves up. That said, when we're drafting aware of TN wanting to draft the best LT (with plans/hopes to move Taylor Lewan to a cozier niche at RT) - as they inform Sashi they have Jerry Jones on the line about trading up - he can reply that's cool because he has someone on the line that wants the best LT in this draft.

[AsianDawg]

Good post and this is a much better board than the one I was on before. My old board was too cliquey and it just became a pissing match between posters with no moderation. Mods favorited certain posters. Maybe one day that board will be shut down.

 

I think we need to get QB. Although you could make an argument for Bosa at #2, sometimes the best answer is the simplest.

 

Get QB and we can fix the D with other studs. QB is the hardest piece, and we are in a good situation--we are BAD ENOUGH--to get an elite QB when it counts. Glad we didn't go 5-11 or 6-10 and miss out again.

 

I think our OL will improve with the right coaching. I even think Erving will improve.

[Mudfly]

Great post...as always Flugel....

 

1) We have yet to see a first round draft pick on the Defensive Line/Edge Rusher become the difference between winning and losing. Courtney Brown, Big $, Kam Wimbley, Phil Taylor never really justified their draft slots here at all for the expectation. Shelton looks like he can morph into a more consistent performer by getting his pad heights down - very doable.

 

2) This looks like a deep draft for the defensive line - especially the DT position so we could have some gems at the top of round 2 or 3 or 4 and throughout. I'm more worried about our LBers in coverage dating back to the last time Horton was here. Our secondary played well vrs the pass but it felt like it was at the expense of our LBers getting bulls-eyed in the flats, hook zones and grey areas.

 

3) We have a weapon in Duke Johnson that can really exploit LBers in coverage or bury the blitz; but another QB that can't hit Lake Erie from the wet rocks touching it - makes him more of a Rip Van Winkle than a Herman Fontenot. Infante arrived here in 86 with a mentality we don't need two thousand yard rushers especially if we can add over 120 receptions from our RB position in a league dying to blitz the cement shoes of Bernie Kosar.

 

4) If the Titans don't need a QB at #1 overall, we pretty much have ourselves a pick of the litter situation with the most important position in football today. I'm pretty excited we have 2 very intriguing QB prospects on our door step. I don't have a preference.

1) Im in full agreement NOT to pick DL with our first pick.....first, we did that last year.....2nd, there are a ton of excellent DL that we can get later in the draft. Easily the strongest group that will grace the board this year.....3rd, there are NOT a ton of excellent QB's, LB's, DB's, etc later in the draft...so gotta strike while the irons hot....

 

2) Linebackers cover???.....get the f*ck outta dodge.....

 

3) Yep....Duke is a tool that has to be used. Why Flip decided to sit him every time he exploded is a question that was never answered....And I loved Infanty and how he made things happen with less than spectacular players....Fontenot, Langhorne, Brennan, Byner, etc.....explosive offense with a bunch of late picks and, basically, average skills.....

 

4) I dont have a preference either...yet. I see good stuff with both Wentz and Goff....and see both being mocked as our pick(often)....just hoping the FO, for once, get's it right.....because it would be really really really really nice to have a QB again....

[Flugel]

QB at #2

Wr like Doctson, Oline or Defense at #32 - a lot of this depends on Josh Gordon's first refrain from stuff getting him suspended AND how many starters on the oline we lose to FA.

 

My guess is we're going to have to dip into free agency and having Hue Jackson here won't hurt our ability to recruit some worthwhile FAs in the right places.

 

Looking forward to it all.

[Clevfan4life]

I would not be advocating a pure edge rusher with the #2 pick. Don't think i'd still want any of these QB's, would probably want a LB'er or perhaps even Tunsil if we could trade JT for something. The reason I want Bosa is his run defense. Not that the Browns are pass rushing savants, but they main need right now is 5 tool players on the line that can get upfield but also stay honest against the run. All of the best front line's right now be they 3 man fronts with a jack OLB'er in a 3-4 or straight up 4 DE's in a 4-3....they are all becoming check run first then get up field. Can't have a guy that just speeds around the edge anymore but gets swallowed if he has to be infront of a tackle.

 

Here's a fact that none of you guys wanting a QB this year can even remotely dispute. Whoever we pick.....the likelihood of him winning "any" games for us next year is close to 0. For one he's not going to start, McCown is. There's no one out there this year that if he got thrown into the game day one next year, he isn't going to fail/die horribly and we're calling for another QB in the 2017 draft. Two, if McCown goes down...it's questionable whether any of these QB's being discussed in the draft could beat out Davis for the backup role. Just think about that. We're going to pass up on defensive talent that will produce "some" kind of of results for us next year barring some kind of injury. Is it the final piece that gets us to the SB? NO OF COURSE NOT! We need to build and groom a young defense that we're realistically looking is 3-4 years away from a deep playoff run. We have to start that now. We can't be signing all these old fucks that are just coming to cleveland for their last paycheck. Same philosophy should go for the offensive line. Build young. "THEN" when that line comes together, look at getting a franchise QB through the draft of FA. BECAUSE THEN WE CAN PROTECT HIM.

[TexasAg1969]

Well if we go offense this year I have no doubt we will be near a repeat of 2015 and be in great position for all D next year. Myles Garrett edge rusher par excellence. Go get him next year if we pass on Bosa this year.

 

http://walterfootball.com/draft2017.php

[Flugel]

I would not be advocating a pure edge rusher with the #2 pick. Don't think i'd still want any of these QB's, would probably want a LB'er or perhaps even Tunsil if we could trade JT for something. The reason I want Bosa is his run defense. Not that the Browns are pass rushing savants, but they main need right now is 5 tool players on the line that can get upfield but also stay honest against the run. All of the best front line's right now be they 3 man fronts with a jack OLB'er in a 3-4 or straight up 4 DE's in a 4-3....they are all becoming check run first then get up field. Can't have a guy that just speeds around the edge anymore but gets swallowed if he has to be infront of a tackle.

 

Here's a fact that none of you guys wanting a QB this year can even remotely dispute. Whoever we pick.....the likelihood of him winning "any" games for us next year is close to 0. For one he's not going to start, McCown is.

 

That's how the team with a Pro Bowl QB named Bledsoe drafted a QB named Tom Brady even if Brady showed up to every game in blue jeans his rookie year. Same can be said for the team that drafted Aaron Rodgers except he wore a uniform to games as a rookie.

 

Forget hindsight 20/20, in order to win in this league or go deep into the playoffs you have to find a QB. If getting the undrafted Kurt Warner or a mid round Russell Wilson or a 6th round Tom Brady was easy - I'd be inclined to take your side. That said, when are we going to have a better shot at drafting the #1 QB of a draft class than this situation here in 2016?

 

I like reading how much you value the trenches on both sides of the ball. That said, teams that score a lot of TDs in a passing era have been really good at winning Superbowls or making it to conference championship games. In particular, it sure explains how often we're looking at Brady, Manning, and Roethlisberger way more than we want to. And when there's only 2 minutes left to erase a deficit like Eli had to vrs Brady - there's just not a lot of any-QB-will-do types ready to lasso history.

 

The last time we made it to conference championships (plural) we had a first round QB, Lindy Infante at OC and the #1 defense. We enjoyed exciting football throughout those seasons all the way up until Marty's ass puckered game plans in the first 2 AFC Championship Games. The difference between Kosar winning it all in college vrs doing that in the NFL is his college coach Schnellenberger had the balls to win while Marty's game plans didn't resemble anything that got us to the big game. I think Joe Montana even lost his post season magic when Marty's game plans focused more on playing not to lose than playing to win.

[andeftw]

I don't think that, other than Bosa, there is value in taking a pass rusher at #2.

I know Horton runs a 3-4, but I'm not overly familiar with his defensive philosophy. Does he move defensive players around like the Texans do with JJ Watt? Bosa is versatile enough to play both as a 4-3 DT/DE and 3-4 DE, but I've heard little talk of him as a 3-4 OLB. How the team views him will play a key role into whether he is worth the #2 pick in the team's eyes.

[Flugel]

I would not be advocating a pure edge rusher with the #2 pick. Don't think i'd still want any of these QB's, would probably want a LB'er or perhaps even Tunsil if we could trade JT for something. The reason I want Bosa is his run defense. Not that the Browns are pass rushing savants, but they main need right now is 5 tool players on the line that can get upfield but also stay honest against the run. All of the best front line's right now be they 3 man fronts with a jack OLB'er in a 3-4 or straight up 4 DE's in a 4-3....they are all becoming check run first then get up field. Can't have a guy that just speeds around the edge anymore but gets swallowed if he has to be infront of a tackle.

 

Here's a fact that none of you guys wanting a QB this year can even remotely dispute. Whoever we pick.....the likelihood of him winning "any" games for us next year is close to 0. For one he's not going to start, McCown is. There's no one out there this year that if he got thrown into the game day one next year, he isn't going to fail/die horribly and we're calling for another QB in the 2017 draft. Two, if McCown goes down...it's questionable whether any of these QB's being discussed in the draft could beat out Davis for the backup role. Just think about that. We're going to pass up on defensive talent that will produce "some" kind of of results for us next year barring some kind of injury. Is it the final piece that gets us to the SB? NO OF COURSE NOT! We need to build and groom a young defense that we're realistically looking is 3-4 years away from a deep playoff run. We have to start that now. We can't be signing all these old fucks that are just coming to cleveland for their last paycheck. Same philosophy should go for the offensive line. Build young. "THEN" when that line comes together, look at getting a franchise QB through the draft of FA. BECAUSE THEN WE CAN PROTECT HIM.

 

Anybody with at least 2 brain cells on speaking terms can beat out Davis. There's a reason he was unemployed before we signed him. For example, his time management skills that went out on display in 2 different games.

 

The other side of this debate is if either of the 2 top QBs don't look like they have the goods to become the real deal - then you take the supply and demand for what it is and get your BPA instead. You just better not be wrong with that though if you're the personnel guy making the call.

 

I'm still not seeing JJ Watt's brilliance making Houston rise above their suspect QB play in the post season. Are you?

[Clevfan4life]

 

That's how the team with a Pro Bowl QB named Bledsoe drafted a QB named Tom Brady even if Brady showed up to every game in blue jeans his rookie year. Same can be said for the team that drafted Aaron Rodgers except he wore a uniform to games as a rookie.

 

Forget hindsight 20/20, in order to win in this league or go deep into the playoffs you have to find a QB. If getting the undrafted Kurt Warner or a mid round Russell Wilson or a 6th round Tom Brady was easy - I'd be inclined to take your side. That said, when are we going to have a better shot at drafting the #1 QB of a draft class than this situation here in 2016?

 

I like reading how much you value the trenches on both sides of the ball. That said, teams that score a lot of TDs in a passing era have been really good at winning Superbowls or making it to conference championship games. In particular, it sure explains how often we're looking at Brady, Manning, and Roethlisberger way more than we want to. And when there's only 2 minutes left to erase a deficit like Eli had to vrs Brady - there's just not a lot of any-QB-will-do types ready to lasso history.

 

The last time we made it to conference championships (plural) we had a first round QB, Lindy Infante at OC and the #1 defense. We enjoyed exciting football throughout those seasons all the way up until Marty's ass puckered game plans in the first 2 AFC Championship Games. The difference between Kosar winning it all in college vrs doing that in the NFL is his college coach Schnellenberger had the balls to win while Marty's game plans didn't resemble anything that got us to the big game. I think Joe Montana even lost his post season magic when Marty's game plans focused more on playing not to lose than playing to win.

 

all of those guys you mentioned have been more or less protected their entire careers and had upper tier defenses. I know GB"s defense the year they won the SB may not have good, they were dead last in most stats except rushing where they were middle of the pack...but for the most part Brady has had good defense's througout his whole career. I am in no way advocating high profile FA signings to our defense just to try to make them #1, i think that's a shit way to hem up other needs your team might have. But in drafts where top notch defensive talent is available, we can't look past them just to pick a maybe maybe not QB.

 

THis has been said many times but it's worth repeating cause some people don't get it. If Andrew Luck was on this team it's debateable whether we would have won even one more game. It certainly wouldn't have put us anywhere near the playoffs, not with that shiite defense. We couldn't protect Luck either. It would hvae been like watching Brady become mr avg against the Broncos. We simply can't groom a QB here until we consistently protect him.

[Clevfan4life]

There's this completely bizarre and unwarranted feeling that somehow the Browns can draft their franchise QB first and then build a line around him. It doesn't work like that. TN found that out this year.

[Flugel]

There's this completely bizarre and unwarranted feeling that somehow the Browns can draft their franchise QB first and then build a line around him. It doesn't work like that. TN found that out this year.

 

Since I live in Nashville, I can tell you TN drafted Warmack and Lewan in the upper part of round 1 as well as signed OG Andy Levitre to a huge FA contract going your route. That's 60% of their line they hoped they invested wisely in. They also drafted a Center Brian Schwenke from Cal a couple years ago near the top of a mid round (who hasn't stayed healthy). So, you're saying they were foolish to draft Mariota when they should have just gotten back to the thing they were doing poorly with oline choices?. Here's the thing, divine intervention has now stepped in with enough is enough putting the best OT in this draft on their door step eliminating any overthinking with the first overall pick matching their biggest need. If that's not enough, they now have a new guy in charge of personnel and the draft.

 

FWIW, we drafted Thomas at #3 overall, Mack in round 1, Bitonio and Schwartz in round 2 while Greco had his best season in 2014. We drafted another guy in round 1 in 2015 and added a FA that outplayed him filling in for Bitonio. It isn't like they're cancelling the 2017 draft so it's going to be more than a 1 year process cleaning up after 3-13 football.

[Flugel]

 

all of those guys you mentioned have been more or less protected their entire careers and had upper tier defenses. I know GB"s defense the year they won the SB may not have good, they were dead last in most stats except rushing where they were middle of the pack...but for the most part Brady has had good defense's througout his whole career. I am in no way advocating high profile FA signings to our defense just to try to make them #1, i think that's a shit way to hem up other needs your team might have. But in drafts where top notch defensive talent is available, we can't look past them just to pick a maybe maybe not QB.

 

THis has been said many times but it's worth repeating cause some people don't get it. If Andrew Luck was on this team it's debateable whether we would have won even one more game. It certainly wouldn't have put us anywhere near the playoffs, not with that shiite defense. We couldn't protect Luck either. It would hvae been like watching Brady become mr avg against the Broncos. We simply can't groom a QB here until we consistently protect him.

 

Our passing game was the least of our problems in 2015. The pass pro wasn't nearly as bad as you want it to sound or we don't have 2 guys in the Pro Bowl because of it. McCown got injured when he scrambled (concussed) and because that's what tends to happen with older guys. Getting more than 1 play maker at WR can certainly help a QB get rid of the ball quicker sometimes and prevent defenses from loading up on Benjamin or Barnidge. NE isn't drafting all kinds of first round olinemen every year any more than Denver or Seattle does. In fact, didn't NE win a Superbowl the year after they let 1st round pick Logan Mankins go to TB?

 

Andrew Luck took a mediocre-substandard offensive line to an AFC Championship in 2014. Didn't their running game look to Boom Herron? Take a stab at how many TD passes he threw? In 2015, they SHOULD have drafted offensive linemen that could have helped them and they refused to for some reason. Luck didn't survive nor did his backups.

[The Gipper]

If there were a QB of the status that would warrant taking one with our #2 pick....I may be all for it. I do not believe there is one of those in this class. If we had a 10 or below pick....maybe one of these guys may be worth it. My gut just tells me that is bunch isn't so prime time to spend that pick on it. I do think there is an edge rusher worthy of it obviously....and so don't most other evaluators.

The question is: What if that person is gone....which he may well be. What do the Browns do then? Reach and take the QB? Take another defender that may not be considered as good as the first. Or take the BPA?

 

See this: http://walterfootball.com/draftdata.php

 

lots of mock drafts have the Titans taking the OL our of Ole Miss....and the Browns taking a QB. They are going it seems out of pure need. But they can't even figure out which QB would be the right one to take there. They have us taking any of Lynch/Wentz/Goff My conclusion as a result of that is that none of them are the right person to take there.

So I vote for the person that most say is the best prospect.

[Tour2ma]

While Gipper has done a nice job showing us perfect QBs for various franchises haven't always come in round 1 - the same can be said for defensive linemen and edge rushers.

We have yet to see a first round draft pick on the Defensive Line/Edge Rusher become the difference between winning and losing.

 

This looks like a deep draft for the defensive line - especially the DT position so we could have some gems at the top of round 2 or 3 or 4 and throughout. I'm more worried about our LBers in coverage...

Really good write up... punched all the buttons... I laughed... I cried and cursed the darkness... but I digress...

 

Deep DL draft to be sure and for a 3-4 team very deep at DE. OLB? No... at least not seeing high value ones who can not only cover, but also run stop and edge rush. We missed that guy 2-years ago... been missing him since Clay??? There may be one in the draft, but he hurt his knee and so I can't roll those dice.

 

If I could get half as Wentz comfy as you, I'd be a happier man, but as of now...

 

Good post and this is a much better board than the one I was on before. My old board was too cliquey and it just became a pissing match between posters with no moderation. Mods favorited certain posters. Maybe one day that board will be shut down.

 

I think we need to get QB.

LOL... you are new here, aren't you? Welcome aboard. Clearly you have the intelligence to hang...

 

Correct... no cliques... There is certainly a core group here, but the barrier to entry is low.

 

As for "pissing matches"? I'll not spoil the surprise except to say that the moderation is, IMO, suitably restrained and balanced.

 

Here's a fact that none of you guys wanting a QB this year can even remotely dispute. Whoever we pick.....the likelihood of him winning "any" games for us next year is close to 0. For one he's not going to start, McCown is. There's no one out there this year that if he got thrown into the game day one next year, he isn't going to fail/die horribly and we're calling for another QB in the 2017 draft.

 

Two, if McCown goes down...it's questionable whether any of these QB's being discussed in the draft could beat out Davis for the backup role. Just think about that.

Not only can I remotely dispute it, I can do so standing right in front of you... as close as you'd like... will even use breath freshener...

 

Not having to start a QB in 2016 that we take at #2 is a luxury we can afford, but whenever we choose to start him, he will be competitive. If Wheezy could win 5 as a rookie then certainly Goff can win one. If Johnny playground could win two as a sophomore, then Goff can win 5. This QB is not one I pass on.

 

The hardest piece of the puzzle to get is starring us in the face and you are blinded by a fucking, 4-3 DE... when we are apparently married to the 3-4 for life.

 

How many games does Bosa win us next year?

[Tour2ma]

There's this completely bizarre and unwarranted feeling that somehow the Browns can draft their franchise QB first and then build a line around him. It doesn't work like that. TN found that out this year.

Since I live in Nashville, I can tell you TN drafted Warmack and Lewan in the upper part of round 1 as well as signed OG Andy Levitre to a huge FA contract going your route. That's 60% of their line they hoped they invested wisely in. They also drafted a Center Brian Schwenke from Cal a couple years ago near the top of a mid round (who hasn't stayed healthy). So, you're saying they were foolish to draft Mariota...?

No, Flugs, apparently Cleve is saying they were foolish to do it just like he said we should... OL first then QB.

[Tim Couch Pulls Out]

There's this completely bizarre and unwarranted feeling that somehow the Browns can draft their franchise QB first and then build a line around him. It doesn't work like that. TN found that out this year.

Are you saying we have a bad offensive line?

 

 

There's this completely bizarre and unwarranted feeling that we need five first round offensive linemen to be "good". It doesn't work like that.

[Mudfly]

I know Flip was popular, but personally wasnt so convinced he used his offense so well.....think the line and RB's way under performed for the talent level and am hoping HUE will get them back on track....

 

I expect him to get a lot more from these guys....and, if we keep our OL intact, I think it could return to the elite status it held one year earlier....dont think they're anywhere near as bad as some folks are implying....

[jrb12711]

To me as of today, there are two "cornerstone" caliber players, Bosa and Goff. Today, I'd lean toward Goff because I really believe he could be the answer to the QB problem in Cleveland, but Bosa does have a Watt-esque ceiling as well. I'd also lean toward Goff because despite him "retracting" his comments about the Browns, I don't think that bodes well for Bosa overall.

 

With that being said, I'd be completely fine with the next 3-4 picks being defensive front seven players. We need some much help from DE to LB that choosing right in rounds 2-4 could yield three starters for this defense.

[stillmotion]

All signs point that Bosa doesn't want to play in Cleveland. What if he leaves when he becomes a free agent? How many top DLinemen are overhyped as well?

 

Courtney Brown, Gerard Warren, ect

 

When's the last time we took a QB this high? and not at 22?

 

Tim Couch? that's more than 15 years ago....

 

Fuck it, Take a chance with Goff. I'm all-in.

 

Plus this year is deep for edge rushes and DLinemen.

 

 

If Hue and the staff hit a few gems on that later picks we'll be golden, and we need a ILB too....

 

But why not take a chance on Goff? If he's a leader, puts in the hard work, and has the heart, who's saying he can't be a Tom Brady?

 

I think we should draft a second QB in the later rounds as insurance though as well. Make Goff compete and have someone trying to beat him the whole time.

[Flugel]

No, Flugs, apparently Cleve is saying they were foolish to do it just like he said we should... OL first then QB.

 

LOL. I, at least, like his understanding of how important the trenches are and his knowledge of experience. That said, my sniffer recognizes the back door opportunity to alley-oop homer hero Joey Bosa right before the 200th episode. In this thread, he reminds me of one of those Cowboys fans back in the day when he brought up our future is fine with Austin Davis and a 35 year old QB. It takes Austin Davis 3 hours to watch 60 Minutes because he's one of those slow processors that renders his bazooka completely useless.

 

It feels like yesterday when the Cowboys had THE Steve Walsh that had so many of their fans prematurely crying about what a horrible draft pick Troy Aikman was when their future was all set w/ Walsh. That poor fan base had to watch an inexperienced rookie QB go 0-11 while receiving 2 different concussions from Buddy's Bounty boys. All that because JJ couldn't see or understand they had STEVE WALSH man! Sound like a commercial Dennis Hopper should have done?

 

Apparently Jimmy Johnson was out of his mind to think he could also add a 270 lb Center like Mark Stepnoski (rd 3) the same draft as Aikman, Erik Williams in 91 (rd 3), Ray Allen in 94 (rd 2) to join the following guys already there: LT Mark Tuinei (undrafted & not quite Joe Thomas), Nate Newton (undrafted), Kevin Gogan, Tom Rafferty, and Crawford Kerr. Just out of curiosity, how many times did an efficient front office need to go offensive line in rd 1 before they put together one of the best offensive lines of my lifetime in 94: LT Mark Tuinei, LG Nate Newton, C Mark Stepnoski, RG Larry Allen, LT Erik Williams. Any question as to why Emmitt Smith would become an All-time Leader Rusher while Aikman's Superbowl Championship inventory would reach 3 even before 94? The key to remember, you can't get your dream line in just 1 draft or think SB Sunday following crummy football like 3-13. Today, we're the cumulative effect of 2 brain cells not on speaking terms in charge of the draft here that repeatedly didn't understand how important 2 first round draft picks were to advancing this franchise out of permanent park.

 

In fairness, there wasn't a Joey Bosa curing cancer, ending terrorism, and solving world hunger in between his hobby of walking on water in Ohio to save Jimmy Johnson from making the mistake of drafting a QB capable of 3 SB Championships. Also keep in mind, they must have had a Nostradamus type of vision ahead knowing they could draft a really good eventual backup to Tony Castillas and Danny Noonan named Russell Maryland with their first overall pick in 91. There IS that.

 

BUT, there have been many mock drafts willing to misunderstand that the prospect they want wasn't playing in a 34 D 5 technique while Cupid recruited their hearts long before Valentine's Day this Hallmark holiday season. The good news is some mock drafts have received some smelling salts and are starting to realize some teams in the top 5 don't use 4 man fronts very often at all (such as both teams Horton worked for). He's going to be asked to be Brett Keisel in THIS type of defense not to be confused with a Greg Lloyd, James Harrison, or Joey Porter. Oh wait, Keisel didn't go to Ohio State so let's just use Cameron Heyward. Good player, good draft pick but not #2 overall reach material especially considering that same franchise was able to find a long time gem like Keisel somewhere around the 6th or 7th round.

[Tour2ma]

lol... gonna need another double espresso to keep up with your energy level this morning...

[Flugel]

Since it's Valentine's Day and Casey Casem isn't around any more to dedicate any more love songs - I'll take care of it for all the homers in Camp Bosa reflecting on potential football life without him. Happy Valentine's Day!

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GNEcQS4tXgQ

[Tour2ma]

"A Country Made of Ice Cream" by Joey "Hubble" Bosa?

[Clevfan4life]

Are you saying we have a bad offensive line?

 

 

There's this completely bizarre and unwarranted feeling that we need five first round offensive linemen to be "good". It doesn't work like that.

 

we just need to have a good line, I don't give a fuck where they come from. And yes i'm absolutely saying we do not have a good offensive line....are you in disgreement? If so were you on a spiritual sabbatical in some hindu temple all season and happened to miss another year of watching Cleveland QB"s have to throw balls with defensive lineman hanging from their arms?

[Mudfly]

Id agree that the OL didnt have a good season, but they showed they could be pretty solid the year prior. I dont know how much not having a coach hurt them, but you gotta think it did. Assuming we kept our starting 5, who would you recommend we replace first? Because, man for man, I cant really single out a guy that made us worse or really stuck out as bad. Though, Mack was kind of rough and its looking like we'll get the chance to replace him. And Cam is terrible in relief. But Greco, Schwartz& Thomas are all proven solid players...and Id stick with Bito for a while before I thought of replacing him....

 

So....in summary....to me, it's a conundrum on how(or with whom) you improve the line over what we have....ideas???

[Tim Couch Pulls Out]

 

we just need to have a good line, I don't give a fuck where they come from. And yes i'm absolutely saying we do not have a good offensive line....are you in disgreement? If so were you on a spiritual sabbatical in some hindu temple all season and happened to miss another year of watching Cleveland QB"s have to throw balls with defensive lineman hanging from their arms?

They had a poor year, but we have one of the top five most talented lines in the league, regardless of your completely wrong opinion of them.

 

Jesus Christ, there's one every year...

[calfoxwc]

qb's need wr's to throw to.

 

and yes, there's always at least one every year.

 

It's often Cleve.....

[gumby73]

Id agree that the OL didnt have a good season, but they showed they could be pretty solid the year prior. I dont know how much not having a coach hurt them, but you gotta think it did. Assuming we kept our starting 5, who would you recommend we replace first? Because, man for man, I cant really single out a guy that made us worse or really stuck out as bad. Though, Mack was kind of rough and its looking like we'll get the chance to replace him. And Cam is terrible in relief. But Greco, Schwartz& Thomas are all proven solid players...and Id stick with Bito for a while before I thought of replacing him....

 

So....in summary....to me, it's a conundrum on how(or with whom) you improve the line over what we have....ideas???

Not personal imo. Loss of Andy Moeller lead to more power schemes late season & less ZBS maybe. Finding some backs with vision & balance that can cut off a Blitzer before getting to QB may help. Finding double TE's that can block a edge rusher or picking up a edge blitz would be nice also. It's not all the OL to blame. Malcolm Johnson has no answers either imo. Most talk is pre talk drama IF Mack, Schwartz or Pasztor leaves. Leaving it up to Erving. March 9th stay tuned. HueNotLeavingCLandNow!!

[AsianDawg]

 

LOL. I, at least, like his understanding of how important the trenches are and his knowledge of experience. That said, my sniffer recognizes the back door opportunity to alley-oop homer hero Joey Bosa right before the 200th episode. In this thread, he reminds me of one of those Cowboys fans back in the day when he brought up our future is fine with Austin Davis and a 35 year old QB. It takes Austin Davis 3 hours to watch 60 Minutes because he's one of those slow processors that renders his bazooka completely useless.

 

It feels like yesterday when the Cowboys had THE Steve Walsh that had so many of their fans prematurely crying about what a horrible draft pick Troy Aikman was when their future was all set w/ Walsh. That poor fan base had to watch an inexperienced rookie QB go 0-11 while receiving 2 different concussions from Buddy's Bounty boys. All that because JJ couldn't see or understand they had STEVE WALSH man! Sound like a commercial Dennis Hopper should have done?

 

Apparently Jimmy Johnson was out of his mind to think he could also add a 270 lb Center like Mark Stepnoski (rd 3) the same draft as Aikman, Erik Williams in 91 (rd 3), Ray Allen in 94 (rd 2) to join the following guys already there: LT Mark Tuinei (undrafted & not quite Joe Thomas), Nate Newton (undrafted), Kevin Gogan, Tom Rafferty, and Crawford Kerr. Just out of curiosity, how many times did an efficient front office need to go offensive line in rd 1 before they put together one of the best offensive lines of my lifetime in 94: LT Mark Tuinei, LG Nate Newton, C Mark Stepnoski, RG Larry Allen, LT Erik Williams. Any question as to why Emmitt Smith would become an All-time Leader Rusher while Aikman's Superbowl Championship inventory would reach 3 even before 94? The key to remember, you can't get your dream line in just 1 draft or think SB Sunday following crummy football like 3-13. Today, we're the cumulative effect of 2 brain cells not on speaking terms in charge of the draft here that repeatedly didn't understand how important 2 first round draft picks were to advancing this franchise out of permanent park.

 

In fairness, there wasn't a Joey Bosa curing cancer, ending terrorism, and solving world hunger in between his hobby of walking on water in Ohio to save Jimmy Johnson from making the mistake of drafting a QB capable of 3 SB Championships. Also keep in mind, they must have had a Nostradamus type of vision ahead knowing they could draft a really good eventual backup to Tony Castillas and Danny Noonan named Russell Maryland with their first overall pick in 91. There IS that.

 

BUT, there have been many mock drafts willing to misunderstand that the prospect they want wasn't playing in a 34 D 5 technique while Cupid recruited their hearts long before Valentine's Day this Hallmark holiday season. The good news is some mock drafts have received some smelling salts and are starting to realize some teams in the top 5 don't use 4 man fronts very often at all (such as both teams Horton worked for). He's going to be asked to be Brett Keisel in THIS type of defense not to be confused with a Greg Lloyd, James Harrison, or Joey Porter. Oh wait, Keisel didn't go to Ohio State so let's just use Cameron Heyward. Good player, good draft pick but not #2 overall reach material especially considering that same franchise was able to find a long time gem like Keisel somewhere around the 6th or 7th round.

 

Those '90s Cowboys lines were good.

 

I think we have a more of a finesse line, a la the '81-90 49ers.

 

Bubba Paris

Keith Fahnhorst

Randy Cross

Jesse Sapolu

John Ayers

 

Later Steve Wallace replaced Bubba due to weight problems at LT.

 

The line we have is composed of technicians. I know Flip was able to get them to run with power a few games at the end, but I think that was a function of them just gelling under a yet another new system.