calfoxwc Posted February 19, 2016 Report Posted February 19, 2016 Too early? Oh, hell no ! Did my knee flexes last night, and have a bit of the "achesies" this morning,lol But I graduate from phys therapy later this morning. What an amazing ride. The hard part now, is forgetting that I used to have one of the worst knees my surgeon ever worked on... Get this: Horton says..says he's going to ...RUSH Paul Kruger "YAY" and.... he is going to play Danny Shelton a LOT MORE !!! Danny is now going to be a three down player ! Shelton obviously struggled with being taken out so much. I have talked to Canton Mike and Flugels, and we're like "what the hell is up with that?" Why the hell was Pettine being such an ignoramus. So many of us on this board saw it. So... what the...??? Horton also will undo the bad relationship between Haden and egotistical dimwits Pettine and O'Neil.... This is great. Talks about Mingo, Kirksey and Gilbert. Finally, some excellent coaches with people skills and smarts to bring out the best, by bringing out their strengths, instead of putting them in bad situations - round pegs/square holes, in a concrete "system" they brought with them elsewhere. This is exciting stuff ! http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2016/02/ray_horton_to_rush_paul_kruger.html#incart_m-rpt-1
gumby73 Posted February 19, 2016 Report Posted February 19, 2016 Kruger needs to drop his excuses find his passion & endurance to not quit on plays. He's slowing down & locking on blocks & quitting but no he should not be asked to cover. That moves me to Mingo. Cover Yes that & a surprise clean Blitzer from a LB but if he meets contact he done (weight issues) & hoping that he has help from a confused coverage scheme that leads Mingo's coverage assignment (RB/TE) wide open in middle of field. Late in season we seen some Shelton on 3rd down & damn O'Neil we saw what we drafted him for. A pocket with pressure in the middle of it. Kirksey possible starter? means 2 things, 3 LB's on field in 4-3 or not good on FA Robertson. Either way we need to upgrade on tackling techniques & angles. Pettine imo purposely embarrassed Gilbert (his own pick?) in a Buffalo scrimmage last season & the kid needs to grow up. Learn to open & turn his hips while continuing to run while not crossing up his legs & feet slowing him down. Horton has got to see this. Rant Over!!
miktoxic Posted February 19, 2016 Report Posted February 19, 2016 why was it pettine's fault that he trusted a friend and colleague who he was supposedly grooming to HC material in o'neill? hell that's what friends do for friends in this league. kubiak's son being hired in denver as what? the shanahan's? the problem wasn't pettine it was the philosophy. i don't understand this league heavy 3-4 defense crap. why draft DEs to play OLB? would you draft bosa to all of a sudden have him cover slot receivers? AJ Green? hell no. i don't blame pettine for much of anything except maybe not taking over completely after realizing the 2 dopes he thought would be good at their jobs sucked ass in flip and o'neill. then given the fact that farmer didn't know talent if it hit him in the face. pettine saw the writing on the wall as soon as jimmy drafted manziel. doomed from that day forward. yeah horton better try something new cuz what other people have been doing since he left has sucked. he better hope that some of those players bloom into something or he'll be out with jackson in 2 years. book it now.
TexasAg1969 Posted February 19, 2016 Report Posted February 19, 2016 why was it pettine's fault that he trusted a friend and colleague who he was supposedly grooming to HC material in o'neill? hell that's what friends do for friends in this league. kubiak's son being hired in denver as what? the shanahan's? the problem wasn't pettine it was the philosophy. i don't understand this league heavy 3-4 defense crap. why draft DEs to play OLB? would you draft bosa to all of a sudden have him cover slot receivers? AJ Green? hell no. i don't blame pettine for much of anything except maybe not taking over completely after realizing the 2 dopes he thought would be good at their jobs sucked ass in flip and o'neill. then given the fact that farmer didn't know talent if it hit him in the face. pettine saw the writing on the wall as soon as jimmy drafted manziel. doomed from that day forward. yeah horton better try something new cuz what other people have been doing since he left has sucked. he better hope that some of those players bloom into something or he'll be out with jackson in 2 years. book it now. Sad thing is that Horton will start with one hand tied behind him if the new bunch is already set on taking a QB as #2 overall rather than getting someone who can legitimately pressure the QB. I got tired of watching QB's take 5-6 seconds a play to find open receivers. Unless we get help in FA the analytics guys will be back in baseball pretty damn quick. As I said before this is going to get very interesting as soon as FA period opens up.
gftChris Posted February 19, 2016 Report Posted February 19, 2016 I actually got kinda bored in Ray's part. He was really saying nothing at all, nothing you would not expect any new coach to say. Not that there's much that can be said at this stage, I grant you. Basically every question was like "have you had a look at this player? how do you think he can do for you?" "well, we need every player to get better, and I'm expecting them to get better" "ray, what about this other player" "yeah, I've seen a little bit, and we need him to get better and play better, and I'm expecting that, and challenging him to do that" etc etc blah blah blah.
Canton Dawg Posted February 19, 2016 Report Posted February 19, 2016 Get this: Horton says..says he's going to ...RUSH Paul Kruger "YAY" What's Kruger been doing? Horton may want to teach him how to set the edge and tackle while he's at it.
miktoxic Posted February 19, 2016 Report Posted February 19, 2016 what is really sad about this league right now, especially for fans of a franchise that hasn't won anything in years is the philosophy of 'flush the system' yet a new regime comes in and the same players are still there, talent or not. then they decide on who stays or goes because they have to fit 'their' system and draft and do things through FA to get 'their' guys whilst anyone that knows apples from adam realizes it takes more than one or two years to make that happen. but given the recent words from the dolphins owner and the last 16 in cleveland it's pretty obvious what the owners of 'our' dysfunctional teams want is a quick turn around and if they don't get it......see ya later. and the carousel continues to turn. meanwhile if you look at the teams that are always in the hunt, always relevant what do they have in common? yes. CONTINUITY.
Tour2ma Posted February 19, 2016 Report Posted February 19, 2016 What's Kruger been doing? Have you forgotten that Krug was dropped into coverage almost 30 times in 2015?
gftChris Posted February 19, 2016 Report Posted February 19, 2016 Have you forgotten that Krug was dropped into coverage almost 30 times in 2015? Blimey. Almost twice per game!
TexasAg1969 Posted February 19, 2016 Report Posted February 19, 2016 what is really sad about this league right now, especially for fans of a franchise that hasn't won anything in years is the philosophy of 'flush the system' yet a new regime comes in and the same players are still there, talent or not. then they decide on who stays or goes because they have to fit 'their' system and draft and do things through FA to get 'their' guys whilst anyone that knows apples from adam realizes it takes more than one or two years to make that happen. but given the recent words from the dolphins owner and the last 16 in cleveland it's pretty obvious what the owners of 'our' dysfunctional teams want is a quick turn around and if they don't get it......see ya later. and the carousel continues to turn. meanwhile if you look at the teams that are always in the hunt, always relevant what do they have in common? yes. CONTINUITY. So the conclusion of our newly hired analytics team will be-----------------------keep this FO in place a minimum of 5 years.
Canton Dawg Posted February 19, 2016 Report Posted February 19, 2016 So the conclusion of our newly hired analytics team will be-----------------------keep this FO in place a minimum of 5 years. Fat chance that will happen!
Canton Dawg Posted February 19, 2016 Report Posted February 19, 2016 Have you forgotten that Krug was dropped into coverage almost 30 times in 2015? I forgot...he sucked at doing that too.
Bob806 Posted February 19, 2016 Report Posted February 19, 2016 I'm (reluctantly again) looking at the glass as half full. Hue & Ray have been around, I trust they know what they're doing. We're all skeptical & that's ok....the damaged psyche of a Browns fan.
Mike H Posted February 19, 2016 Report Posted February 19, 2016 I think the hybrid defense is the answer. Having enough versatile bodies to rotate in at different positions in different fronts. Von Miller is a OLB in a 4-3, but better than most 3-4 rush OLBs. Would have been nice if Mingo could have played that part. Wonder what the new role they have in mind for him is?
TexasAg1969 Posted February 19, 2016 Report Posted February 19, 2016 Denver runs a 3-4 usually. http://www.denverbroncos.com/team/depth-chart.html click and switch it to defense depth chart
Mike H Posted February 19, 2016 Report Posted February 19, 2016 Their base is 3-4, but their personnel allow them to play a lot of both. Wade Phillips came in and moved them to 3-4. But damn, looking at that depth chart... awestruck.
Tour2ma Posted February 19, 2016 Report Posted February 19, 2016 Didn't we just try "the hybrid"? Albeit sans "versatile players"... Always possible that the new, Defensive staff can wring more out of the existing roster, but we need a serious injection of talent... especially at LB. While I am fearful that in 2015 Mingo came as close to his promise as he ever will, I could see him as the designated TE cover LB. Seems to have the agility, speed and length to battle some of the new breed TEs.
Mudfly Posted February 19, 2016 Report Posted February 19, 2016 Didn't we just try "the hybrid"? Albeit sans "versatile players"... Always possible that the new, Defensive staff can wring more out of the existing roster, but we need a serious injection of talent... especially at LB. While I am fearful that in 2015 Mingo came as close to his promise as he ever will, I could see him as the designated TE cover LB. Seems to have the agility, speed and length to battle some of the new breed TEs. Yep...been running a hybrid for the last 2 years....and definitely not enough talent(or versatility) at LB....lots of one skill players, but very few that can do more than one thing well....hence the shuttle in and shuttle out and finger crossing that the right people are in for whatever the O decides to do.....and nowhere near the talent needed to dictate or force our will on anybody....meaning we need multi skilled players that can adjust(on the fly) to whatever the O throws at them.... Browns anticipate run, then shuttle in their "run package" and the O passes....Browns anticipate pass, shuttle in their pass package and the O runs....gotta be able to keep the same players in and have them play both the run or pass....need LB's who can seal an edge, make some tackles, cover TE's and the slot and rush the passer.....heck, give me just one guy who can do that and Id be happy(er).... Ironically, Mingo may be one of the guys who could do a few things(tackling is a real issue tho).....Orchard looks like the best bet... Kruger?....nope......Armonty?....eh, was better than Kruges, but not by much......Solomon?....nope..... And drafting one OLB in the fourth round aint gonna get it done.....
Kosar_For_President Posted February 19, 2016 Report Posted February 19, 2016 Kruger needs to drop his excuses find his passion & endurance to not quit on plays. He's slowing down & locking on blocks & quitting but no he should not be asked to cover. That moves me to Mingo. Cover Yes that & a surprise clean Blitzer from a LB but if he meets contact he done (weight issues) & hoping that he has help from a confused coverage scheme that leads Mingo's coverage assignment (RB/TE) wide open in middle of field. Late in season we seen some Shelton on 3rd down & damn O'Neil we saw what we drafted him for. A pocket with pressure in the middle of it. Kirksey possible starter? means 2 things, 3 LB's on field in 4-3 or not good on FA Robertson. Either way we need to upgrade on tackling techniques & angles. Pettine imo purposely embarrassed Gilbert (his own pick?) in a Buffalo scrimmage last season & the kid needs to grow up. Learn to open & turn his hips while continuing to run while not crossing up his legs & feet slowing him down. Horton has got to see this. Rant Over!! BS. I know Krugers' neighbor. They were NOT using him right, plain and simple. He admits he is not a side to side player. The Browns brought him in and they said that to him directly, we expect you to put pressure on the QB...vertically. Que Ray Horton, who is going to do just that. Watch for a 12-14 sack season.
TexasAg1969 Posted February 19, 2016 Report Posted February 19, 2016 Yep...been running a hybrid for the last 2 years....and definitely not enough talent(or versatility) at LB....lots of one skill players, but very few that can do more than one thing well....hence the shuttle in and shuttle out and finger crossing that the right people are in for whatever the O decides to do.....and nowhere near the talent needed to dictate or force our will on anybody....meaning we need multi skilled players that can adjust(on the fly) to whatever the O throws at them.... Browns anticipate run, then shuttle in their "run package" and the O passes....Browns anticipate pass, shuttle in their pass package and the O runs....gotta be able to keep the same players in and have them play both the run or pass....need LB's who can seal an edge, make some tackles, cover TE's and the slot and rush the passer.....heck, give me just one guy who can do that and Id be happy(er).... Ironically, Mingo may be one of the guys who could do a few things(tackling is a real issue tho).....Orchard looks like the best bet... Kruger?....nope......Armonty?....eh, was better than Kruges, but not by much......Solomon?....nope..... And drafting one OLB in the fourth round aint gonna get it done..... So a real pass rushing, edge setting threat as our #2 overall?
TexasAg1969 Posted February 19, 2016 Report Posted February 19, 2016 BS. I know Krugers' neighbor. They were NOT using him right, plain and simple. He admits he is not a side to side player. The Browns brought him in and they said that to him directly, we expect you to put pressure on the QB...vertically. Que Ray Horton, who is going to do just that. Watch for a 12-14 sack season. Delusion becomes you.
Mudfly Posted February 19, 2016 Report Posted February 19, 2016 BS. I know Krugers' neighbor. They were NOT using him right, plain and simple. He admits he is not a side to side player. The Browns brought him in and they said that to him directly, we expect you to put pressure on the QB...vertically. Que Ray Horton, who is going to do just that. Watch for a 12-14 sack season. Well...that would be like 10 more sacks than Horton got out of him last time(4.5).....he directly rushed the QB well over 300 times last season and had 2.5 sacks....so not a very good percentage.... So a real pass rushing, edge setting threat as our #2 overall? Im there!!!....and, what the heck, how about one at #32 as well.....
Tour2ma Posted February 19, 2016 Report Posted February 19, 2016 Im there!!!....and, what the heck, how about one at #32 as well..... But I thought you wanted LBs...
Mudfly Posted February 19, 2016 Report Posted February 19, 2016 Ha!....I honestly am confused about this years draft and who I would tap first, etc....glad there's time to roll it all around.... BUT....what Im really hoping(and the Starks cut plays into it) is that we sign one of the pass rushing DE's availAble in FA.....Wilkerson, Vernon and Pierre-Paul top my list.... Just sign one of these guys and let's get on with it already.....
Tour2ma Posted February 19, 2016 Report Posted February 19, 2016 Can't go JPP personally... he might end up being the best bargain, but the gross out factor it too high. Olivier? Maybe, but that Miami well has not been kind to us. And he and Wilkerson are going to end up being very expensive pieces to add at this stage of our rebuild.
Mudfly Posted February 19, 2016 Report Posted February 19, 2016 Can't go JPP personally... he might end up being the best bargain, but the gross out factor it too high. Olivier? Maybe, but that Miami well has not been kind to us. And he and Wilkerson are going to end up being very expensive pieces to add at this stage of our rebuild. Yeah....JPP is my third choice, but should be the most cost effective....but I cant finger out what you mean by gross out factor.. Vernon and Wilk are just what the doctor ordered....Vernon had more TFL's than our whole DL last year and would cost less than we are paying Kruger & Bowe.....comparably, worth every penny.....
TexasAg1969 Posted February 19, 2016 Report Posted February 19, 2016 ".but I cant finger out what you mean by gross out factor.." LOL!
LogicIsForSquares Posted February 19, 2016 Report Posted February 19, 2016 ".but I cant finger out what you mean by gross out factor.." LOL! Yeah I thought that was pretty stellar work haha.
Tour2ma Posted February 19, 2016 Report Posted February 19, 2016 lol... yup, that geezer has his moments... ... including many that would be termed "spells" in days gone by...
Clevfan4life Posted February 20, 2016 Report Posted February 20, 2016 God we're really going to go into next season with virtually the same defensive personnel aren't we? mother fucker.
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