Rams cut Laurinaitis and Long.....i'd take em in a heartbeat.

[miktoxic]

i want it all. pettine and farmer were both d players but when i look at the drafts which i thought were D heavy....they really were 50/50. and then add to it the big whiffs............it's like, does anyone on the north shore of ohio know how to hire people that actually know wtf they're doing?

 

scouts? no. maybe webelos.

[jrb12711]

Yeah....I cant agree with that either....."fair ceiling"???......more like "extremely unlikely" ceiling.....

 

Okay, the use of the word "fair" was perhaps the wrong way to say it. Honestly, I actually hate comparisons but all I'm trying to say is Bosa has potential to be a cornerstone defensive type of talent just like any top 5 defensive talent is. Is that really some huge leap or am I going crazy?

[andeftw]

 

Okay, the use of the word "fair" was perhaps the wrong way to say it. Honestly, I actually hate comparisons but all I'm trying to say is Bosa has potential to be a cornerstone defensive type of talent just like any top 5 defensive talent is. Is that really some huge leap or am I going crazy?

 

I just don't see it. Good player? Yes. 15+ sacks a season? No

[andeftw]

 

The premier edge rusher in 2016 may well be Spence.

 

Bosa certainly is a better 4-3 fit.

 

The Watt comparisons continue to amuse...

 

By all accounts, Spence is the best edge rusher in this draft. But character concerns aside, is he a "cornerstone" edge rusher like Von Miller? I haven't heard anyone say he's on the same level as Khalil Mack coming out college. To me, Mack will be the benchmark for edge rushers for the next couple of drafts.

 

I kind of went off on my own tangent there, but I just don't see any defensive players who will in the top 5 at their position in a few years other than Ramsey at safety. If you ask me, Tunsil is clearly the best prospect at any premium position.

[Flugel]

Why do we think Bosa is the answer to all our problems? Just curious because good pass rushers are a dime a dozen (compared to say, QBs) and Bosa doesn't fit the mold many think he does.

 

Horton's base D is the 34 which means the alleged football messiah would mostly work out of a 5 technique as a 2nd overall pick. Not for nothing, but how much of a difference has Des Bryant made since he got his dream contract to play the 5 technique here. Interestingly enough, some of his biggest plays have come when we've moved him around or up over Center on occasion. Best case scenario, we hope he plays as well as Brett Keisel used to and what round was he available in?

 

I don't really care about Bosa's heroics against his crappy competition. I wanted to see this guy dominate Michigan State the way Bama's front line did. If we surveyed Sparty's Offensive line - which 1st round defensive line prospects would they tell us are more overrated - Bosa or Bama's?

 

I remembered a promise of hybrid fronts in 2013 but I don't recall seeing a lot of varied fronts or maybe there was but there was just very little reason to remember the difference or impact of such.

[Mudfly]

 

how much of a difference has Des Bryant made since he got his dream contract to play the 5 technique here. Interestingly enough, some of his biggest plays have come when we've moved him around or up over Center on occasion. Best case scenario, we hope he plays as well as Brett Keisel used to and what round was he available in?

 

As not good as he's been(and over paid), he has been our best DL for a few years now.....sad to say.....and in fairness, he was undrafted, so the comparison to Keisel(7th) is a fair one....

[Mudfly]

 

Okay, the use of the word "fair" was perhaps the wrong way to say it. Honestly, I actually hate comparisons but all I'm trying to say is Bosa has potential to be a cornerstone defensive type of talent just like any top 5 defensive talent is. Is that really some huge leap or am I going crazy?

yeah...he could be a great player....I dont doubt that. I have grown weary of the Watt comparisons, because to me, Watt is a generational player and I dont see Bosa being anything even close to that.....pro bowler?....sure.....Watt?....no way....

[Tour2ma]

 

By all accounts, Spence is the best edge rusher in this draft. But character concerns aside, is he a "cornerstone" edge rusher like Von Miller? I haven't heard anyone say he's on the same level as Khalil Mack coming out college. To me, Mack will be the benchmark for edge rushers for the next couple of drafts.

 

I kind of went off on my own tangent there, but I just don't see any defensive players who will in the top 5 at their position in a few years other than Ramsey at safety. If you ask me, Tunsil is clearly the best prospect at any premium position.

 

Point taken and agree that Tunsil is the clear "Best in Show" for 2016... (Yes, I watched Westminster with the wife....)

 

Is Spence the equal of either Mack or Miller? Not positive, but I like his odds of being mentionable in the same sentence with them.

 

When I caught sight of Spence going into Sr. Bowl week, he was a mid to late-2nd rounder. Mid to late 2nd rounders are not talked about a great deal. Now he's top half of the 1st and poised to crack the top ten, where I think he'll end up after the Combine.

[miktoxic]

 

Point taken and agree that Tunsil is the clear "Best in Show" for 2016... (Yes, I watched Westminster with the wife....)

 

HA!!!!

 

and i thought i was the only one. it's a tradition now. she buys the mezcal, she gives the dog a pinch or 2 of her medicinal ___ and we all get to bark at the tv while judges measure dog dicks and assholes and then little poofs run around with them in a circle. GREAT!!

 

god i hope our FO is as good as finding talent as those uppity upper east side snob cunts that decide to give best in show to a labradoodle over a siberian huskie.

[Flugel]

As not good as he's been(and over paid), he has been our best DL for a few years now.....sad to say.....and in fairness, he was undrafted, so the comparison to Keisel(7th) is a fair one....

 

All true - thanks Mud! But, if Bosa came here hoping for a best case scenario of performing like Brett Keisel from a 5 tech after the learning curve - have we landed our dream at #2 overall? Ohio State homers say yes - I say no. And I love Ohio State. I'm just keeping it real from all the over-hype setting Bosa up to be the next Big Daddy Wilkinson. The length of Wilkinson's career said reliable football player. The draft slot thrusting him into unrealistic expectations said he was a bad draft choice at the priority/investment level made.

 

I fully understand we need front 7 and offensive help but the last time we won a playoff game in Cleveland in the 90s - we had 1 undrafted tackle named Tony (T-Bone) Jones who was easily our best lineman, a first round Center (Everitt), a converted defensive Linemen OG Bob Dahl), a 5th round tackle Gene Williams and a 33 year old Doug Dawson that the Cardinals drafted in round 2 about 11 years prior. Our teams from 86-90, didn't have any first round guys starting on the offensive line (unless we want to count TE Ozzie Newsome - who played WR at Alabama). Cody Risien was a 2 time Pro Bowl performer at OT and he was a 7th round draft pick. Paul Farren was a 12th round pick that started at 4 different positions. We also got Dan Fike from the USFL. Earlier in the 80s, the one former 1st round guy came over from the Buffalo Bills (Joe D). In 86, we had the #1 defense against the run without any first round draft picks starting on the d-line: Sam Clancy, Bob Golic (sub was David Puzzuoli), Reggie Camp. We had a couple 1st round backers from USC (Clay Matthews and Chip Banks) from round 1 while the USFL helped to load us up with ILB Mike Johnson and CB Frank Minnifield.

 

Why all that? Because when you have a good front office - you don't always have to lean so heavily on round 1 for Oline and Defensive Line. For example, there had to have been better offensive linemen than Erving after round 1 but we had a Jeff Foxworthy punchline in charge so we reached. We had 3 first round picks, 2 second round picks plus Greco coming off his best season heading into 2015; and we looked way too limited where we could run the football and who we could do that against perpetuating predictable passing situations. Pass pro wasn't bad considering IMO. I'm just excited our front office now has people on speaking terms, 2 former Harvard intellects (that also played DI football) plus a willingness to work w/ a HC that not only carried Dalton to playoffs in Cincy a few times but was in the process of tapping the best football I had ever seen from Dalton.

[tiamat63]

Physically speaking, Bosa and Watt are similar molds. I don't believe Joey's first step is quite as elite as JJ's, but it sure as hell isn't that far off either.

 

That said, if there is any one player I think Bosa's game reminds me of (and I believe he will be better than) is Michael Bennett.

 

Your traditional LDE in a 4 man front that will slide around and inside to the 3 on passing downs should you choose.

There is certainly nothing to snarl at as Bennett has been one of the best and most versatile dlineman in the NFL for a few years now.

[Flugel]

Physically speaking, Bosa and Watt are similar molds. I don't believe Joey's first step is quite as elite as JJ's, but it sure as hell isn't that far off either.

 

That said, if there is any one player I think Bosa's game reminds me of (and I believe he will be better than) is Michael Bennett.

 

Your traditional LDE in a 4 man front that will slide around and inside to the 3 on passing downs should you choose.

There is certainly nothing to snarl at as Bennett has been one of the best and most versatile dlineman in the NFL for a few years now.

 

Interesting! Good to see you back Tia. Where do you stand with Bosa as a #2 overall pick possibility?

[andeftw]

 

Point taken and agree that Tunsil is the clear "Best in Show" for 2016... (Yes, I watched Westminster with the wife....)

 

Is Spence the equal of either Mack or Miller? Not positive, but I like his odds of being mentionable in the same sentence with them.

 

When I caught sight of Spence going into Sr. Bowl week, he was a mid to late-2nd rounder. Mid to late 2nd rounders are not talked about a great deal. Now he's top half of the 1st and poised to crack the top ten, where I think he'll end up after the Combine.

 

Certainly has all the physical tools to compare. If I'm not mistaken the criticism for Spence is the lack of a counter move and that he struggles against the run. Definitely two things that can be fixed with NFL coaching and strength training.

I think the lack of 1st round buzz prior to the Senior Bowl was due to playing at Eastern Kentucky. If he was still playing at Ohio State, Bosa would be playing second fiddle to Spence.

[tiamat63]

 

Interesting! Good to see you back Tia. Where do you stand with Bosa as a #2 overall pick possibility?

 

Thanks, bud. Busy and only getting worse now that the weather is breaking. I'm trying to watch more of Spence today.

 

As for Joey - if the front office (and Tour) are rather adamant that Goff is our guy, then its a moot point. Would I be upset with Bosa as our #2 pick? No. Part of me is bias, though I do my best to fight it and stay level headed. The other part of me recognizes talent when I see it. Especially for a team that's had trouble in recent years with lineman stacking, shedding, tackling and holding their perimeter assignments; Joey would be an immediate upgrade right there alone. I wouldn't have an issue with us taking him.

[andeftw]

 

Thanks, bud. Busy and only getting worse now that the weather is breaking. I'm trying to watch more of Spence today.

 

As for Joey - if the front office (and Tour) are rather adamant that Goff is our guy, then its a moot point. Would I be upset with Bosa as our #2 pick? No. Part of me is bias, though I do my best to fight it and stay level headed. The other part of me recognizes talent when I see it. Especially for a team that's had trouble in recent years with lineman stacking, shedding, tackling and holding their perimeter assignments; Joey would be an immediate upgrade right there alone. I wouldn't have an issue with us taking him.

 

Out of curiosity, what's his best fit in the Browns' scheme? 5 technique or at OLB?

[TexasAg1969]

 

HA!!!!

 

and i thought i was the only one. it's a tradition now. she buys the mezcal, she gives the dog a pinch or 2 of her medicinal ___ and we all get to bark at the tv while judges measure dog dicks and assholes and then little poofs run around with them in a circle. GREAT!!

 

god i hope our FO is as good as finding talent as those uppity upper east side snob cunts that decide to give best in show to a labradoodle over a siberian huskie.

 

LOL! Most of those little yappy dogs qualify for my "moving" target range a.k.a 9mm catch me if you can.

[tiamat63]

 

Out of curiosity, what's his best fit in the Browns' scheme? 5 technique or at OLB?

 

3-5 without question.

[Mudfly]

 

All true - thanks Mud! But, if Bosa came here hoping for a best case scenario of performing like Brett Keisel from a 5 tech after the learning curve - have we landed our dream at #2 overall? Ohio State homers say yes - I say no. And I love Ohio State. I'm just keeping it real from all the over-hype setting Bosa up to be the next Big Daddy Wilkinson. The length of Wilkinson's career said reliable football player. The draft slot thrusting him into unrealistic expectations said he was a bad draft choice at the priority/investment level made.

 

Im with you 100% Fluges.......I love Ohio State too, but am not on the Bosa band wagon for the Browns at #2.....

[hoorta]

 

All true - thanks Mud! But, if Bosa came here hoping for a best case scenario of performing like Brett Keisel from a 5 tech after the learning curve - have we landed our dream at #2 overall? Ohio State homers say yes - I say no. And I love Ohio State. I'm just keeping it real from all the over-hype setting Bosa up to be the next Big Daddy Wilkinson. The length of Wilkinson's career said reliable football player. The draft slot thrusting him into unrealistic expectations said he was a bad draft choice at the priority/investment level made.

 

I fully understand we need front 7 and offensive help but the last time we won a playoff game in Cleveland in the 90s - we had 1 undrafted tackle named Tony (T-Bone) Jones who was easily our best lineman, a first round Center (Everitt), a converted defensive Linemen OG Bob Dahl), a 5th round tackle Gene Williams and a 33 year old Doug Dawson that the Cardinals drafted in round 2 about 11 years prior. Our teams from 86-90, didn't have any first round guys starting on the offensive line (unless we want to count TE Ozzie Newsome - who played WR at Alabama). Cody Risien was a 2 time Pro Bowl performer at OT and he was a 7th round draft pick. Paul Farren was a 12th round pick that started at 4 different positions. We also got Dan Fike from the USFL. Earlier in the 80s, the one former 1st round guy came over from the Buffalo Bills (Joe D). In 86, we had the #1 defense against the run without any first round draft picks starting on the d-line: Sam Clancy, Bob Golic (sub was David Puzzuoli), Reggie Camp. We had a couple 1st round backers from USC (Clay Matthews and Chip Banks) from round 1 while the USFL helped to load us up with ILB Mike Johnson and CB Frank Minnifield.

 

Why all that? Because when you have a good front office - you don't always have to lean so heavily on round 1 for Oline and Defensive Line. For example, there had to have been better offensive linemen than Erving after round 1 but we had a Jeff Foxworthy punchline in charge so we reached. We had 3 first round picks, 2 second round picks plus Greco coming off his best season heading into 2015; and we looked way too limited where we could run the football and who we could do that against perpetuating predictable passing situations. Pass pro wasn't bad considering IMO. I'm just excited our front office now has people on speaking terms, 2 former Harvard intellects (that also played DI football) plus a willingness to work w/ a HC that not only carried Dalton to playoffs in Cincy a few times but was in the process of tapping the best football I had ever seen from Dalton.

 

Dang Flugs, Ghoolie may run over and kiss you for that post. He does have a point sometimes those low round offensive linemen turn into Pro Bowl talent on occasion.

 

 

LOL! Most of those little yappy dogs qualify for my "moving" target range a.k.a 9mm catch me if you can.

 

Har Ag, it's why I don't have dogs. My wife says I've been bitten (most of the time) by friends dogs more than anyone else she knows. Started back in third grade when one of my lifelong friends (unknown to me that he had one) rescue Springer Spaniel latched onto my arm when I walked into his house, and wouldn't let go. If I had $5 bucks for every time a dog has chased me when I've been out on my bike rides, I could buy myself a custom Lance Armstrong Trek Madone with the money. There's been plenty of times I wish I was packing a 9mm when someone's German Shepherd chased me for around a mile, trying to take my legs off.

 

For some reason, dogs just don't like me. I can read my neighbor's Jack Russell's mutt's feeble mind when I look over the fence. "If I was a Rottweiler, I'd kill you."

 

EDIT: PS- Sophie did manage to jump the fence once and tried (partial success) to take a chunk out of my thigh. If I didn't like Scott & Jill so much- I would have busted the mutt's neck right then and there..... I have no problems with well trained and well behaved dogs- my pal up in Alaska has a few dogs that I love, but if you live out in the country and have dogs that are "chasers" be it bikes or cars- keep 'em restrained- because sooner or later, they're going to wind up as road kill.

[TexasAg1969]

Har Ag, it's why I don't have dogs. My wife says I've been bitten (most of the time) by friends dogs more than anyone else she knows. Started back in third grade when one of my lifelong friends (unknown to me that he had one) rescue Springer Spaniel latched onto my arm when I walked into his house, and wouldn't let go. If I had $5 bucks for every time a dog has chased me when I've been out on my bike rides, I could buy myself a custom Lance Armstrong Trek Madone with the money. There's been plenty of times I wish I was packing a 9mm when someone's German Shepherd chased me for around a mile, trying to take my legs off.

 

For some reason, dogs just don't like me. I can read my neighbor's Jack Russell's mutt's feeble mind when I look over the fence. "If I was a Rottweiler, I'd kill you."

 

I have 14 year old Ragdoll cat sisters. They never yap, never bite and follow me everywhere in the house or the fenced back yard. One used to fetch wadded up paper balls for me and drop it at my feet to toss again. Now she takes a swat and just watches it. Too old for that game anymore.

[Mudfly]

I was just reading Hoortas post and my dog started growling.....

[TexasAg1969]

I was just reading Hoortas post and my dog started growling.....

LOL! HA!

[hoorta]

 

I have 14 year old Ragdoll cat sisters. They never yap, never bite and follow me everywhere in the house or the fenced back yard. One used to fetch wadded up paper balls for me and drop it at my feet to toss again. Now she takes a swat and just watches it. Too old for that game anymore.

 

^+1.

We have the Mooch- a 15 year old guy I found @ around 6 weeks old on the bike path. Rode him home in one hand. The cat is a live Teddy Bear- loves to be hugged.

[Clevfan4life]

Why do we think Bosa is the answer to all our problems? Just curious because good pass rushers are a dime a dozen (compared to say, QBs) and Bosa doesn't fit the mold many think he does.

 

Because Bosa is not just a pass rusher. He's an "animal" in run defense. His college tape to me looks better than Watt cause he's not just trying to get upfield constantly, but analyzing the play and if it's pass he sheds blockers at will. Even when he's pure pass rush from snap, he cuts the edge so hard...just like Watt does now. He can potentially get to the QB quicker than a lot of premier edge rushers like Miller because he can jack through the outside shoulder of an OT. Do I still want a speed rusher on the opposite side of him? Of course, that way you have one guy taking away the QB's step up and the other guy cleaning it up if the QB spills out high.

 

Basically though it's the run stopping. I'm in love with Bosa's run stopping. I want the Browns to build a 4-3 and I think if we draft him Horton will see that the line does better when there's 4 down lineman. Him and Orchard would make great DE's..and Orchard can stand up just fine and Bosa can slide into the 5 tech "easily" We could have a nasty hybrid D that's based off the 4-3. I would rather have that than a base 3-4 where every now and then the edges put their hands in the ground, which is what we've been doing for some years now.

[Clevfan4life]

 

. I wanted to see this guy dominate Michigan State the way Bama's front line did. If we surveyed Sparty's Offensive line - which 1st round defensive line prospects would they tell us are more overrated - Bosa or Bama's?

 

I remembered

 

If I recall that game correctly, Bosa was triple teamed on a bunch of plays....and the QB almost the entire game rolled out to his left immediately. Even the announcers like 5 minutes into the game were marveling at how much Bosa affected the Spartans usual offensive game plan. It couldn't have been more obvious from the first snap who MSU was trying to neutralize on that front 4.

[Clevfan4life]

Physically speaking, Bosa and Watt are similar molds. I don't believe Joey's first step is quite as elite as JJ's, .

 

are you comparing Bosa to Watt as they are now or as they were in college? Cause Bosa to me when he's full go from snap looks as good as Watt did. As I mentioned what I feel Bosa does better is read the run, by "far". So it sometimes looks like Joey's coming off the line easy, but he stacks his man and sheds him with ludicrous ease. I don't care what you all want to say about the level of competition Bosa faced...if a 300lb+ man grabs a hold of you for most players that's that. Some of these so called elite edge rushers in the game get absolutely swallowed if a tackle gets his hands on em. Not Joey. I remember Ansah a few years ago that was getting so highly touted and some people wanted the Browns to take him....but if you saw his tape you'd see how badly he'd get manhandled if a guy grabbed him.

 

I have a sneaking suspicion that Joey's functional field strength is better now than watt's was when he was in college. That's obviously tough to measure as I don't think the 225 bench means shit. Just the eye test says Joey's doing things on the field that are really special.

[tiamat63]

Of course I'm comparing their college performance. Watt has done nothing but become a better player since being drafted. I pray Joey does the same.

[Clevfan4life]

 

If I'm not mistaken the criticism for Spence is the lack of a counter move and that he struggles against the run. Definitely two things that can be fixed with NFL coaching and strength training.

I think the lack of 1st round buzz prior to the Senior Bowl was due to playing at Eastern Kentucky. If he was still playing at Ohio State, Bosa would be playing second fiddle to Spence.

 

Ummm, so has Mingo gotten bigger and stronger and now doesn't struggle against the run? Some things are instinctual and some things can be taught. Spence "maybe" would have started at the other side at OSU. But make no mistake Bosa is far and away a more complete player than Spence...it's not even close. Bosa could hack it on an NFL field "right now" whereas Spence would get tossed around like Mingo has for the last 3 years.

[Clevfan4life]

Of course I'm comparing their college performance. Watt has done nothing but become a better player since being drafted. I pray Joey does the same.

 

I think the game has changed since Watt played. Even college teams that run 4-3's are expecting more form their DE's. I think the days of "pure" pass rushers are over. Not that Watt couldn't have done the same, but his tape looks like he's just in QB kill mode constantly. Joey just looks more refined right now than Watt did at this level.

 

I think anybody that has watched Texans games would find it hard to disagree, when they line up Watt like a 4-3 DE....its just not even fair. I remember Reggie White fairly well and he was great...maybe i'm not remembering him well enough but it just looks like Watt utterly destroys an OT's outside shoulder that he feels like. He almost doesn't have to take an arc to the QB, he just obliterates the tackles outside shoulder. And if the tackle steps out too far to compensate Watt just turns into him and deposits him in the QB's jock. If we could get a guy that's even half that good......I mean shit.

[Clevfan4life]

Watts pure stats would be stupid had he gone to a 4-3 team. He may not have been overall as effective against the run playing on the outside, but he would have destroyed sack records.