Benjamin to sign.....Mack out then in ?

[gftChris]

I think if Mack stays, schwartz stays 99%. Gipson also is more likely to stay. Benjamin could go either way still, but he's the least talented of the three.

[Westside Steve]

I think if Mack stays, schwartz stays 99%. Gipson also is more likely to stay. Benjamin could go either way still, but he's the least talented of the three.

That's hard to say after last year's levels of performance from him and Gipson.

 

WSS

[calfoxwc]

they wouldn't have stayed if it weren't for Hue Jackson being

so inspiring a new HC.

[gftChris]

That's hard to say after last year's levels of performance from him and Gipson.

 

WSS

I think Benjamin is a perfectly serviceable second or third WR, but guys like that aren't so difficult to replace. A ball-hawk safety is a lot harder. Besides, Benjamin was very inconsistent, got 4 TDs in the first three games and then one for the rest of the year. I'm not saying don't resign him, but for me he's the least important and most easily replaced.

[Westside Steve]

I think Benjamin is a perfectly serviceable second or third WR, but guys like that aren't so difficult to replace. A ball-hawk safety is a lot harder. Besides, Benjamin was very inconsistent, got 4 TDs in the first three games and then one for the rest of the year. I'm not saying don't resign him, but for me he's the least important and most easily replaced.

I'd agree with you if Gipson performed last year like he did the year before.

But he didn't.

And Benjamin does seem to have a spark which should ignite into a fire by an offensive genius like Hue Jackson, right?

WSS

[gftChris]

I'd agree with you if Gipson performed last year like he did the year before.

But he didn't.

And Benjamin does seem to have a spark which should ignite into a fire by an offensive genius like Hue Jackson, right?

WSS

I guess agree to disagree?

[gumby73]

I'd agree with you if Gipson performed last year like he did the year before.

But he didn't.

And Benjamin does seem to have a spark which should ignite into a fire by an offensive genius like Hue Jackson, right?

WSS

Some of Gipson's best (b4 knee ended season) was Gipson in Ray Horton's D system. So at this point Schwartz & Gipson our big signings.

 

[Flugel]

This is Benji's one chance for a large pay day, and it looks like he wants to make the most of it. Hard to blame the guy, but I'd be curious as to exactly WHAT our team offered him. Did we low ball the guy, or is he being unreasonable? We'll probably never know, but sometimes the details of offers are made public. I could see some team like the Patriots offering Benjamin a solid deal. Can you imagine a guy like Benji running down the field with Brady throwing the ball to him? Patriots aren't known for their big spending on free agents, but it's just a thought.

 

The interesting thing about Benji is...we really can't lose the guy, and our team HAS to know that. If Benji leaves, then we have what left? Hartline, Gabriel, Hawkins, Pryor, and Marlan Moore for sure? Yes, I know we COULD have Gordon back, but if you're the Browns' front office, are you REALLY counting on that? Probably not. We drafted Benji, developed him, worked through his injury, and can't let him go.

 

The apparent revelation that Mack could opt out, and then re-sign is a welcomed thought. I didn't think there was even a CHANCE that could happen, so we'll see. Somebody was reporting that Mack wants $10 million a year instead of $8 million...we might pay that. We have the money.

 

BINGO! Before you started posting here and even before many had Benjamin making our 2015 roster, I brought up a lot of improvements I saw from Travis in 2014 (ie; leading our WR Corp in TD receptions and 17.4 yards per catch). For all of the 2nd round WRs we swung from our ass and missed on over the years (Dennis Northcutt, Andre Davis, Quincey Morgan, and Greg Little) - this mid/late round pick showed up knowing he had to work for everything. In spite of all the turnover with coaching staffs and QBs throughout his development, he's improved steadily to the player we saw last year.

 

I'm still waiting for Josh Gordon to be reliable off the field every bit as much as I have watching Santa Claus flying behind reindeer on my bucket list. And when he got his ideal chance to be Mr Magic joining a 6-4 team in progress - we finished 1-5 with him not caring enough to know the playbook, play every down and attend meetings on time. Yeah, I know - how dare I hold him accountable for hanging out with the wrong guys and this alleged "just 1 beer" that produced a dirty water soluble drug test some 12-24 hours later. What about hanging out with the right people so this isn't a temptation in the first place if the career is a priority? Too tough? So far it has been for a guy that has put himself in the position he can't even have 1 beer. More importantly, where has that left our front office planning with the WR position the last 3-4 years? "We already have Josh Gordon so we don't need to consider drafting decent help on the perimeter." Even worse, Farmer was in charge of personnel so the last time Dwayne Bowe was a scoring weapon way back in 2011 - has him just right for Farmer in 2015 and a contract that guaranteed him 9 million $? Lucky us!

 

We've been pretty non-competitive from the WR position in the red zone in recent years because of this we're all set with Josh Gordon that can't ever get himself on the field because of his choices off the field. It's a passing era where your play makers on the perimeter are largely responsible for what teams put on the scoreboard. Isn't that trend big enough to support why more QBs, WRs and LTs are getting drafted in round 1 than RBs and RTs?

 

Why all this far sided concern from a near sighted blowhard? As much as I'm really excited about our new front office - I don't want them making a rookie mistake of falling into the same trap of making Josh Gordon the plan/foundation. Do schools teach history? Why would they do that? If Gordon couldn't get on the field for 2 different college programs before we're seeing most of his NFL career reduced to "he's REALLY gonna be unstoppable next time he's not suspended." The last next time was 2014 and it wasn't nearly as good as what we just saw from Benjamin. Moral of the story, prioritizing one's NFL career can really show up on Sundays. Benjamin prioritized it while Gordon usually has not. Was he unreasonable with what he'd be willing to stay for? If you're in his shoes, how many other WRs could have gotten better to the extent he did throughout all of the turnover at HC, OC, QB and WR Coach? If we were a team that was good at finding late WRs like Antonio Brown or undrafted guys like Victor Cruz - I'd feel better about letting Benjamin go while holding my breath for one of the only football seasons (college and pro) Josh Gordon can remain drug free in its entirety. It's costed him millions of $ to where 1 more dirty urine = career done while some only want to focus on "it was only 1 beer man." My hope is we package up Gordon to the God complex in Dallas and get some extra picks so we can address a WR position that's far too weak to compete in a passing era.

[sisky fringo]

how many times have you ever seen a reception of his and said, "Wow, what a catch?".

i agree Tour, but to his credit we also don't hear a lot of complaints about drops from him. to date he's had 8 career drops in 4 seasons -- 3 drops each in the past 2 and one each rookie and soph). his body catches may not be pretty but they get it done. he also gets open. WIDE open. he also comes back for balls, doesn't give up on plays, helps out his QB ans is also a capable blocker.

 

a burner with olympic speed who runs decent routes, and who's actually been quite durable for a 175lber? with 3 drops on nearly 1000 yards in 2015? pretty appealing.

 

odd stat: he has lead the league in recpt avg and excelled in that area (very slim margins among top 50-ish) but for some reason he's been dead last out of 400+ every single year in yac. head scratcher. even if he can't break a tackle to save his life i recall numerous catches followed by big chunks of yardage, some that went for scores. but still dead last. and all 4 years? if nothing else you gotta admire the consistency.

 

Travis stepped up and helped to fill some of the huge void Gordon left. aside from Hartlines handful of contributions while healthy,

 

Benjamin and Barnidge were really the only bright spots among a very dissapointing and injury riddled 2015 receiver group.

 

i'd prefer the Browns not sell the farm but personally i love having Benji on the team.

 

 

Will miss his punt return contributions, but for every nice return there's been two or more "why did he not field that?" moments.

i wager Tabor probably has some insight here. it's easy to see from above at home :-p but i will admit i have had that thought.

much less with the Browns than many others imo fwiw. ok

i'll also admit to a little minimizing, if you'll confess to a little nitpicking. personally i can live w those downsides...for very fair compensation. adequate plus. but he's free to maximize his $$, no hard feelings here or sleep lost if another team ponies up Skrine money for him.

 

... or his brother's? Methinks you thinks of Derek...

 

When did David become a talking head?

well that pretty much changes everything. (!)

 

although i have mixed those two up before (more than once taboot) i have no excuse there i just whiffed. fuck David Carr.

[Tour2ma]

It's all covered by revenue either way, though. It's not really Jimmy's money.

 

Huh? As owner JImmah doesn't get to keep the profits?

 

BINGO! Before you started posting here and even before many had Benjamin making our 2015 roster, I brought up a lot of improvements I saw from Travis in 2014 (ie; leading our WR Corp in TD receptions and 17.4 yards per catch).

 

... this alleged "just 1 beer" that produced a dirty water soluble drug test some 12-24 hours later.

 

First, it was a couple drinks on a plane with instructions to report for testing waiting at landing.

 

Two, the improvement was in the use of Benji. Under Patsy I think his one route was called "go long". Under Chud he was hurt. Under Pet/Shanny he developed a route tree. Under Pet/Flipper he was the only choice.

 

Again, I have to ask for an example of a great catch by Benji? A 50/50 ball he won?

 

He's a serviceable #2/slot with a value boost due to very good punt return skills.

[Flugel]

 

First, it was a couple drinks on a plane with instructions to report for testing waiting at landing.

 

Two, the improvement was in the use of Benji. Under Patsy I think his one route was called "go long". Under Chud he was hurt. Under Pet/Shanny he developed a route tree. Under Pet/Flipper he was the only choice.

 

Again, I have to ask for an example of a great catch by Benji? A 50/50 ball he won?

 

He's a serviceable #2/slot with a value boost due to very good punt return skills.

 

There's been quite a few guys excited to announce Gordon only had 1 beer so that's the audience I targeted that to. If he was told before the plane ride that he'd have to take a NFL drug test at the end of it and he drank alcohol - even more difficult to believe he's got an entire year ahead of nothing but clean tests. I suppose there's a first time for everything; but he isn't very easy to believe in if we go by history as an educational tool.

 

As for Travis Benjamin, he made a terrific 1 handed snag of a slant pass thrown behind him in the preseason. There's a couple on film here (around the 2 minutes and 38 secs into it and at 2:56 or so) vrs Baltimore and St Louis. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x4BhpbzP03s

 

Ideally, you like to have guys here heading into their very best football especially when you've invested 3-4 years into him. That's what I liked most about Travis was how far he came. It feels like we've trained him up so he can help somebody else when he's coming into his prime. Both Barnidge and Benjamin put together seasons nobody saw coming so I was thrilled we Barnidge a new contract and was hoping we could do the same for Benjamin. Our cap is never in jeopardy while the cupboards are empty in the WR Corps.

[sisky fringo]

 

Again, I have to ask for an example of a great catch by Benji? A 50/50 ball he won?

errrrr i can't.

one time at band camp he hauled in this one heater streaking left across the back of the end zone--Wheezy may have launched it. Weedz was guilty of dislocating at least one of the fingers on all his receiver's hands at Oklahoma State, but his balls seemed to be no problem for Travis. does that count for anything? well sadly it saul i got.

 

He's a serviceable #2/slot with a value boost due to very good punt return skills.

 

replaceable? sure.

easy to replace? not easy but feasible.

expendable? as of today? no.

 

i hope we lock him up for a while, but at the right price. i wouldn't part ways unless he lands a more lucrative and/or attractive deal somewhere else.

[darren15]

NFLTradeRumors.co ‏@nfltrade_rumors 45m45 minutes ago

Browns Working On Restructured Contract & Pay Raise For C Alex Mack http://bit.ly/2102UBB

[wargograw]

No actually. There is a minimum that you have to pay but anything between that and the ceiling you can keep if you choose.

 

WSS

Yeah I knew that. But it's not enough to warrant concern over the guy's lost cash.

[TexasAg1969]

It's the same old story. Burn me once shame on you. Burn me twice shame on me. While 90% of me thinks Josh has turned the corner, the other 10% thinks Billy has a brother who could crash in Vegas in a NY minute. We still need that deep threat to open up the underneath stuff and Travis is our only other deep threat until we see who we get in the draft. JG shows the exact same tendency to self destruct just when you think he is on the cusp of a breakout. Does it remind you of Juanita Manzanilla?

[Tour2ma]

Does it remind you of Juanita Manzanilla?

 

Actually, no...

[Flugel]

Canton Mike said it somewhere, we were 3-13 so it ain't like we had a bunch of guys slam dunking gotta keep. The good news is we might keep Mack and Schwartz and already re-signed Barnidge.

 

I understand we're not going to get a consensus on the Travis thing. IMO, he's one of the offensive players we drafted in a mid/late round that not only survived all the coaching and scheme changes but get better throughout it. Is it HIS fault Gordon can't prioritize his NFL opportunity quite the same way? I usually make it a point not to bet on seeing a UFO so I won't do it here either with seeing Josh Gordon for a full 16 game season without suspension.

 

So we're losing Benjamin + Hartline while this alleged #1 WR we have here remains impossible to see. That spells defenses loading up on Barnidge with our little knee high WRs that get tackled by grass blades when/if our QBs even see them to throw the football downward at them. In the last 2 years, how many TD receptions have Gabriel and Hawkins combined for? Yeah, I'm pumped we're telling a hard working kid that stays out of trouble, prioritizes career and is playing his best football like Travis to take a hike while we await Gordon to return from his marijuana sabbatical. Epic progress learning from Johnny Manziel or is it? Oh wait, Josh Gordon has played 4 football games in 2 years. Why is that? Terrific reason to refrain from drafting play makers on the perimeter in a passing era while counting on the same level of football priority Manziel gave us. People can argue with Gordon's historical trend all they want but there's many reasons he couldn't play 1 single game last year. There's only 1 reason left for a permanent suspension and it can be as small as "he only had 1 beer man!" He may be a nicer kid than Manziel but he prioritizes football just as much. We saw his level of priority in 2014 after all his promises we'd see the very best of him. What the flock of seagulls am I missing here?

 

So there will inevitably be an argument we can't pay Travis a #1 WR salary. That would be fine with me if we had ANYONE earning a #1 WR salary here in a passing era. Who has done that recently? Aside from that, this guy puts points in the board as a return man as well. And it ain't like we've ever come close to worrying about cap trouble here while we're always compete with anchors. I'm glad we're so terrific today we can call Hawkins our #1 WR and Gabriel our #2 and Pryor our #3. Would this even compete in Canada? The AFC North must be almost as terrified of this as I am.

[TexasAg1969]

Like I said flugs he's a lesser version of Juanita in terms of social media, but end results are the same as in not on the field for the Browns. I don't trust that the change is permanent when the trend over the years shows screwup every f'n time. I want to believe it's different this time, but that is nothing more than a Xmas wish list at this point. Some of you still feel burned by Bama backs, so can't believe Henry is any different. Well I have been burned by JM and cannot believe that JG has changed either until I see a full year of playing time without another suspension hanging there.

[Canton Mike]

Of course, we'll see what actually happens, but from past history, I see 2 kids...a hard working, passionate over achiever in Benjamin & a lazy, indifferent "super talent" in Gordon. While I HOPE Gordon has changed, there is nothing in his history that makes me confident he has.

Who knows what will happen, but I really would like to watch Goff or Wentz & Benjamin work together.

 

 

Mike

[joedawg69]

I would like to see both resigned and would like to keep our good players until we can find someone that proves he can replace them.

[gftChris]

Mack out?

 

Adam SchefterVerified account‏@AdamSchefter

Browns C Alex Mack is voiding the 3 years remaining on his contract and is set to become a free agent, per source. One more free agent OL.

[LogicIsForSquares]

I guess if the Browns can't work out a deal with Mack then Irving it is?

 

 

*puts gun in mouth*

[Tour2ma]

Put down the gun...

 

It ain't over plus there are good alternatives.

[LogicIsForSquares]

Put down the gun...

 

It ain't over plus there are good alternatives.

I wouldn't squirt any tears over Mack leaving. I don't think he played all that well and wants a nice pay day. However, Erving is none too good.

[gftChris]

Time to get on the phone to the Wiz I guess.

[hoorta]

Browns are sort of stuck. We're already paying Joe Thomas top money. Can we afford to do the same with Mack and Schwartz? Alex obviously wants to be the highest paid center, and The Schwartz is looking for left tackle money to play right tackle.

[LogicIsForSquares]

Browns are sort of stuck. We're already paying Joe Thomas top money. Can we afford to do the same with Mack and Schwartz? Alex obviously wants to be the highest paid center, and The Schwartz is looking for left tackle money to play right tackle.

I would like to see Schwartz back but he wants a lot for sure. Mack...meh.

[gftChris]

Browns are sort of stuck. We're already paying Joe Thomas top money. Can we afford to do the same with Mack and Schwartz? Alex obviously wants to be the highest paid center, and The Schwartz is looking for left tackle money to play right tackle.

We're not really paying him top money - he's on about $8m per year, top tackles in the league are getting $12m. Either way, if you have a long term, top tier left tackle, you're paying him that much. If you don't, you're not likely to be competing.

[Tour2ma]

Actually Joe is right at $10mm/yr... Here are his cap numbers for the last 3-years of his contract.

 

2016 $9,500,000

2017 $10,000,000

2018 $10,000,000

Extension time in 2017?

[gftChris]

Actually Joe is right at $10mm/yr... Here are his cap numbers for the last 3-years of his contract.

 

2016 $9,500,000

2017 $10,000,000

2018 $10,000,000

Extension time in 2017?

Probably. Or even this year. Offer him $10m for five years, fully guaranteed, he retires a brown, doesn't cost loads, everyone's happy. Except ghoolie.