OldBrownsFan Posted February 26, 2016 Report Share Posted February 26, 2016 I was expecting some fireworks on this one and it didn't disappoint. Trump got hammered from Rubio and Cruz and I thought Rubio in particular came out looking very well. Rubio is not the only one in the field with some rehearsed lines and he let Trump know about it with Trump using the lines "were going to win,win,win", "make America great again", I'm winning in the polls", "everybody else is dumb" and "long lines". I thought Trump finally took some real shots on this debate and (to me) he came off as not having any detailed plans for how he will achieve the things he is promising. It will be interesting to see if Teflon Don is affected at all. So far it has been like Trump himself has said that he could shoot someone on the street and still have his supporters. Like the dust up with the Pope that helped Trump the colorful comments from the ex-Mexican president about they were not building a wall should be a gift to Trump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted February 26, 2016 Report Share Posted February 26, 2016 I don't think it's wise for any politician to give a detailed plan. It just sets the table for the opposition to sift through it find things to bitch about. And no plan is free of that. I would guess that websites or other forms of media would be better for laying out somebody's policy framework because anyone interested would have more time to look it over then soundbites measured in seconds. But beyond that, like any other campaign speech or ad or State of the Union address, I think the debates are garbage no matter which party is involved. I've been watching the recap all morning and heard nothing but pundits bring about who attacked who. WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldBrownsFan Posted February 26, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 26, 2016 It may not be wise for the candidates but I think voters should get detailed plans as anyone can make promises and the devil is in the details. If you are promising hope and change how are you going to do it? If you are going to make America great again let's hear specifically how you can do it. One of the things I don't like about politics is how nobody can admit to making a mistake. They know if they do that will end up in 30 second sound bites against them in campaign ads. The truth is though we all make mistakes and it would be good to hear a candidate say "I messed up on that legislation". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
One Post Posted February 26, 2016 Report Share Posted February 26, 2016 When all the debates first started Trump wouldn't name his ideas. He's staying put. Hide and watch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted February 26, 2016 Report Share Posted February 26, 2016 Of course Hope and Change won the election with no details. So there is that. After you win it doesn't matter what your policies might have been. WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbedward Posted February 26, 2016 Report Share Posted February 26, 2016 This debate was a total shit show - but thoroughly entertaining. Every time Lubio said something he had the same paid people who would obnoxiously screech (particularly this one woman). Rubio/Cruz desperately went after Trump. Rubio did better but still screeched like a child and repeated the phony 200 million inheritence line - along with the phony illegal polish immigrant line (38 years ago Trump hired a subcontractor, who then hired 6 polish workers who overstayed their visa - really a big deal?). Cruz just sucked, he got pretty shredded by Donald in the 2nd half. The establishment is behind Rubio, soon Cruz will be too. Carson needs to go, Kasich is only staying in to try to win Ohio - and keep those delegates away from Trump (on behalf of the establishment). If Trump wins Florida, it's officially over - currently he's way ahead there. Rubio is more similar to Obama than Trump too. - First term senator with horrible attendance record and no accomplishments - Good speaker (on script - not as good as Obama though) - Supports amnesty - Supports TPP - Biggest Donor: Goldman Sachs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldBrownsFan Posted February 26, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 26, 2016 When all the debates first started Trump wouldn't name his ideas. He's staying put. Hide and watch. I think it might have been easier to do that with 10 or 12 candidates on the debate stage and a limited amount of time but now the field has whittled down to 5 there is more time to get into specifics. Carson had some good answers but he was rarely asked to speak. I thought it was funny when he asked somebody to pick a fight with him so he could talk. Kasich I thought did well too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieHardBrownsFan Posted February 26, 2016 Report Share Posted February 26, 2016 Reagan and Bush had some heated debates, and Reagan ended up picking him as his VP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldBrownsFan Posted February 26, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 26, 2016 Trump needs to face these questions as he will surely be facing many of them from democrats if he wins the GOP primaries: Cruz's favorite line of attack was Trump's long history of donating to Democrats, which Cruz said proved the real estate mogul was either a closet liberal or insufficiently dedicated to conservatism. "If you look at the eight members of the Gang of Eight, Donald gave over $50,000 to three Democrats and two Republicans," Cruz said. "When you're funding open border politicians, you shouldn't be surprised when they fight for open borders." Both Cruz and Rubio also brought up Trump University, a defunct program being sued by former students who say they spent tens of thousands of dollars on it and received little more than an "infomercial." "You lied to the students at Trump University," Rubio said. Cruz noted that the case was scheduled to go to trial in the spring, making it a general election liability. "[Trump] on the stand in court, being cross-examined about whether he committed fraud - you don't think the mainstream media will go crazy on that?" Cruz said. Trump said he could settle the case if he wanted to, but didn't on "principle" because the program was "fantastic." Policy weaknesses Rubio and Cruz engaged Trump in a debate over health care policy that was partly about his praise for single-payer health care and the Obamacare mandate that everyone carry insurance, but also about Trump's inch-deep understanding of the issue. Cruz brought up Trump's past calls for universal health coverage and his praise for single-payer health care in Canada and Scotland. Trump denied he was for "socialized medicine," but Rubio pounced on his vague and repeated responses about solving all America's health woes by allowing insurance companies to sell policies across state lines (something most Republicans favor). "I see him repeat himself every night, he says five things: Everyone's dumb; he's going to make America great again; we're going to win, win, win; he's winning in the polls; and the lines around the state," Rubio said. Cruz said Rubio and Trump "agreed with the Obama/Clinton policy of toppling the government in Libya," whereas he favored avoiding the conflict in the hopes then-dictator Muammar Gaddafi would maintain power and prevent terrorism from taking root. "He said I was in favor of Libya? I never discussed that subject," Trump said. This was not true. Trump came out in favor of military action against Gaddafi in 2011, saying the US should "immediately go into Libya, knock this guy out very quickly, very surgically, very effectively, and save the lives." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted February 26, 2016 Report Share Posted February 26, 2016 http://www.politico.com/agenda/story/2016/02/fact-check-wrongometer-republican-debate-texas-000054 Some GOP debate fact checking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldBrownsFan Posted February 26, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 26, 2016 I think the establishment republicans have woke up to the fact Trump is in the drivers seat to win the republican primaries and be the GOP candidate in the general and are pulling out all the stops to prevent it. I thought Romney calling for all the candidates to release their tax returns was fine but to say there might be a bombshell in Trump's return was a cheap shot much like what Harry Reid did with Romney in 12 by saying Romney didn't pay any income taxes without a shred of evidence to say it. Anyway if Trump does win the republican nomination I think these attacks will help get him prepared for what will be coming from the democrats during the election. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted February 26, 2016 Report Share Posted February 26, 2016 I don't get the point of releasing tax returns. If people aren't doing anything illegal then who cares; if they are, the IRS will figure it out before anyone else does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldBrownsFan Posted February 26, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 26, 2016 The left wanted Romney's tax returns in 12 to show he invested in a firm that disposed of aborted fetuses. It is now standard operating procedure for any presidential candidate to release tax returns. The opposition is always hoping there is something in those returns they can use against them and the argument being the voters have a right to know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted February 26, 2016 Report Share Posted February 26, 2016 The left wanted Romney's tax returns in 12 to show he invested in a firm that disposed of aborted fetuses. It is now standard operating procedure for any presidential candidate to release tax returns. The opposition is always hoping there is something in those returns they can use against them and the argument being the voters have a right to know. Clutching at straws, basically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldBrownsFan Posted February 26, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 26, 2016 Clutching at straws, basically. Usually. In Trump's case I think Romney is bringing it up as part of the establishment trying to derail Trump. I still think the establishment's desparate attempts to knock out Trump will only help Trump get these issues either out of the way or Trump being prepared to answer them in the general election. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieHardBrownsFan Posted February 26, 2016 Report Share Posted February 26, 2016 I don't trust Mormons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted February 26, 2016 Report Share Posted February 26, 2016 I don't trust Mormons. I don't trust morons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieHardBrownsFan Posted February 26, 2016 Report Share Posted February 26, 2016 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8InUiEtBG04 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbedward Posted February 26, 2016 Report Share Posted February 26, 2016 Trump needs to face these questions as he will surely be facing many of them from democrats if he wins the GOP primaries: Cruz's favorite line of attack was Trump's long history of donating to Democrats, which Cruz said proved the real estate mogul was either a closet liberal or insufficiently dedicated to conservatism. "If you look at the eight members of the Gang of Eight, Donald gave over $50,000 to three Democrats and two Republicans," Cruz said. "When you're funding open border politicians, you shouldn't be surprised when they fight for open borders." But when Trump said "I donated to you" that pretty much #Stumped Cruz. Trump donated to everybody - and he has voted republican in basically every election since the late 80s. Though I'd say he's really more of an independent - given involvement in the reform party and such, he's definitely not a democrat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldBrownsFan Posted February 26, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 26, 2016 But when Trump said "I donated to you" that pretty much #Stumped Cruz. Trump donated to everybody - and he has voted republican in basically every election since the late 80s. Though I'd say he's really more of an independent - given involvement in the reform party and such, he's definitely not a democrat. Trump has been all over the map though. Google search will be his biggest weapon against him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbedward Posted February 26, 2016 Report Share Posted February 26, 2016 Trump has been all over the map though. Google search will be his biggest weapon against him. For as big as Trump is and has been for so long, the best they can do is "he's too liberal." In the general election the democrats are going to say "he's too conservative" I think that's pretty good, donating to democrats doesn't matter - especially when you're a real estate developer in the very liberal NYC (and New York state for that matter). The only reason Rubio looked semi-effective against Trump is because him and his paid audience wouldn't shut up (though his points on polish workers and inheritance were both bogus). Cruz, however, got bent over by both of them. It's time for Cruz to pack it up and support Rubio - he's the establishment's last chance (although Trump already won the nomination) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted February 26, 2016 Report Share Posted February 26, 2016 Interesting point on Kasich/Rubio - one dropping out would massively help the other, but neither wants to give up, so neither will win (posit's the author). Classic game theory scenario that has been studied to death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted February 26, 2016 Report Share Posted February 26, 2016 http://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/25/upshot/john-kasich-republican-nomination.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbedward Posted February 26, 2016 Report Share Posted February 26, 2016 I think my theory is better. Kasich is staying in to try to win Ohio - because the only way Trump can lose is if he loses both Ohio and Florida (still unlikely, but it's the only chance). Kasich is very close with Trump in Ohio while nobody else really is - though Lubio isn't even close to Trump in Florida. Kasich will drop out shortly after Ohio - win or lose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldBrownsFan Posted February 26, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 26, 2016 Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump debates in the fall should be classic. Once Trump locks up the republican primaries I look for most republicans to support him even the establishment ones (what else are they going to do?) And then Trump will say how honest Cruz really is, and Jeb really isn't so low energy, and Rubio isn't so bad after all and those guys will say they really kind of like Trump after all and there you have American politics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieHardBrownsFan Posted February 26, 2016 Report Share Posted February 26, 2016 He will probably pick one of them as a running mate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldBrownsFan Posted February 26, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 26, 2016 He will probably pick one of them as a running mate. I think Kasich would be best. Ohio is a must win state for any republican as well as Kasich being a nice balance for Trump and having tons of experience in politics. That would be my pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted February 26, 2016 Report Share Posted February 26, 2016 Would anyone be totally surprised by this scenario: Donald Trump wins the nomination hands down and then announces fuck you I'm not going to run. WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieHardBrownsFan Posted February 26, 2016 Report Share Posted February 26, 2016 I think Kasich would be best. Ohio is a must win state for any republican as well as Kasich being a nice balance for Trump and having tons of experience in politics. That would be my pick. Agree. But he would probably pick Rubio because of the Hispanic vote. Or perhaps a hispanic or black female? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted February 26, 2016 Report Share Posted February 26, 2016 Would anyone be totally surprised by this scenario: Donald Trump wins the nomination hands down and then announces fuck you I'm not going to run. WSS I think it would be more subtle than that. But not totally surprised, no. "..and at the same time, I'd like to announce Trump Political Consultancy!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.