How likely, now, do you'all think it is, that the Browns trade down from #2?

[calfoxwc]

I'm not good at scouting, so... lol

 

I'm going more on cost-effectiveness. The cost of drafting Spriggs would be higher,

as in, top of the second at latest, than drafting Haeg in the third. I don't think he'll be there

in the fourth... we're talking RT anyways. I think Haeg has quicker feet...

 

crap. Now I'll have to go watch their tapes. Dammit, Tour.

[Tour2ma]

crap. Now I'll have to go watch their tapes. Dammit, Tour.

 

lol... in that case the least I can do is recommend one, 2015 tape each that demos their difference...

 

For Spriggs watch FIU... good early season form... http://draftbreakdown.com/video/jason-spriggs-vs-fiu-2015/

 

For Haeg check out his Montana game... http://draftbreakdown.com/video/joe-haeg-vs-montana-2015/

[calfoxwc]

Spriggs is rated higher, but he got beat on a spin move badly... fell down on a good block when

the defender backed off...

 

Haeg nearly gave up a sack on a bull rush. but saved it...

 

hard to see the difference great enough to warrant the Browns picking Spriggs at 2, if he's there,

and Haeg in the third, assuming he may be.

 

The Patriots are seriously looking at Haeg... since obviously Spriggs would be gone.

 

Not seeing enough difference, cost-effectively... but what do I know, I ain't no profesunul on this stuff.

[Opal312]

They should have kept Mitchell Schwartz. He's the one we will miss. We get compensory picks for next year? Is that how it works? Next year we would have more leverage?

[TexasAg1969]

I found these two interesting little tidbits within this article: http://www.cleveland.com/pluto/index.ssf/2016/03/cleveland_browns_are_all_about.html

 

1. "The analytics school of football is all about adding picks. It's about not being afraid to lose veteran players to free agency. It's also about trading down far more often than trading up in the draft."

 

2. "It's why new coach Hue Jackson mentioned at the NFL Combine that the Browns may not re-sign any of their free agents. It's also why I expect them to trade Joe Thomas and others as the draft approaches."

 

The gist of the entire article is that they plan to build almost exclusively thru the draft and that it's more a very painful 5 year plan than a fix it in 2 plan.

 

It would have been easier to take this week if they had communicated this to fans in advance rather than to look like more fodder for the Browns joke of the league team.

[LogicIsForSquares]

Some people got it and some people moped haha.

[wargograw]

They did communicate it, did they not?

[LogicIsForSquares]

They did communicate it, did they not?

I thought they were pretty clear.

[Mudfly]

Ive mentioned this before....Makes me think about a Belichick interview I heard years ago, where he explained his theory on winning with middling players....which he has found a way to do....

 

Basically, he said you have A players and F players, and B, C & D players......and, due to salary structures, for every A player, you'll end up with more Ds & F's to balance the scale......and, often, when your A goes down, you're stuck with a D or F playing...

 

So, his objective is to load the roster with all B's and C's, who collectively are better than mixing A's and F's.....because there might not be superstars, but there are no big holes(which is more important).....and, quite often, some of those lesser players will surprise you and play like A's.......which we've seen over and over again with the Pats.....

 

So.....reading about Depodesta's history and trying to understand some of what the FO is doing....perhaps they are going to try to get a little better balance on the roster, instead of hoping for one or two big splash players to carry the load.....

 

Personally....I like the theory.....

[LogicIsForSquares]

A cursory glance at Google leaves nothing to the imagination. They have been open about it being a rebuild from the start.

[joedawg69]

Trading down has always been a possibility depending on how strong they feel everyone in the draft is. If they feel anyone in the draft is worth the number 2 pick and they want them bad enough, they will take it but if they don't think anyone is worth the value of a number 2 pick in the draft, they will try to trade down.

[Mudfly]

Im all in on trading down, if we stay inside the top 10.....especially this year with such a thin draft.....the more the merrier in my book....

[darren15]

What will we get for Sashi ?

[TexasAg1969]

They did communicate it, did they not?

 

Well they may have TRIED to communicate it, but I was not aware we were just going to let those 4 top FAs walk because SB communicated the opposite about how important it was to retain our own just before the FA door opened. That in my mind is miscommunication. There should have been either a qualified statement or none at all from SB.

[Tour2ma]

I found these two interesting little tidbits within this article: http://www.cleveland.com/pluto/index.ssf/2016/03/cleveland_browns_are_all_about.html

 

1. "The analytics school of football is all about adding picks. It's about not being afraid to lose veteran players to free agency. It's also about trading down far more often than trading up in the draft."

 

The gist of the entire article is that they plan to build almost exclusively thru the draft and that it's more a very painful 5 year plan than a fix it in 2 plan.

 

Well after 2 runs at quick fixes, I'd say a different approach was in order.

 

The trade down/accumulate picks approach is pure Belichick... enable casting of a wider net for the 2nd tier players.

 

Allows the kind of draft decisions made when the Pats took Edelman (IIRC), who Bill B. told when he called him on his draft day, "We don't know how we are going to use you yet, but you're a helluva football player."

 

Ive mentioned this before....Makes me think about a Belichick interview I heard years ago, where he explained his theory on winning with middling players....which he has found a way to do....

 

Personally....I like the theory.....

 

And that was clear from his first HC gig... Three years flirting with .500 before a breakout year. All enabled in part by going after an unpopular QB acquisition.

 

Also coincidentally he inherited a 3-13 team from Carson/Shofner.

[Tour2ma]

Well they may have TRIED to communicate it, but I was not aware we were just going to let those 4 top FAs walk because SB communicated the opposite about how important it was to retain our own just before the FA door opened. That in my mind is miscommunication. There should have been either a qualified statement or none at all from SB.

 

Problem with your stance, Ag, is we did not just "let them walk"... Closest we came was probably with Gipson, and even in his case we negotiated on and off through 2015 with his people.

 

In the end either our FO's value judgments did not go their way and/or the players wanted to leave.

[joedawg69]

To add to what Tour said, didn't we offer more to A. Mack than the Falcons? A. Mack just felt that the Falcons offered him a better chance at the big dance than Cleveland does and I am sure others leaving might feel the same.

[Mudfly]

 

Problem with your stance, Ag, is we did not just "let them walk"... Closest we came was probably with Gipson, and even in his case we negotiated on and off through 2015 with his people.

 

 

Right....I think we negotiated a long time with all of them.....and, in the end, it is the player who chooses, not the team....

 

Ive gone back a re-read a lot of what the team and Sashi(in particular) have said and dont see anywhere that they said they would resign these guys or even feel that it was a top priority....but found LOTS of quotes suggesting they would not be aggressive and would be very careful in signing FA's.....

 

Here's the most recent quote, when Sashi was asked about signing our guys....and clearly, he tip toed through this question and definitely didnt say they were gonna sign em, or pursue them heavily, etc etc....

 

(Is it fair to say that none of the prospective free agents will be re-signed?): "Working through the process with all of them.Alex Mack came in last week, met with Hue, myself, Hal Hunter. We were able to have some conversations with all of our rising free agents towards the end of the year in our meetings to discuss that back in Berea at the transition -- lay out kind of our plan and vision and where we saw them fitting in and we are currently in discussions with a number of our free agents. Not going to be able to talk much in detail about that, but there's a possibility that we'll have a few back. We won't be panicked on any one player but there's some guys we feel like can contribute for us in the fall and we absolutely want to do everything we can, see if we can reach a deal that works for them and us and keep them as Cleveland Browns."

[gumby73]

far to many reconstruction fires still burning. 1. Tunsil & Ramsey still best talent available. We know what JT said on new FO about trading him but now it's going to be on Joe with respect to either choice. Talks say we get a late rd. 1 still on JT. With loss of Gipson, I could see Ramsey playing any where he damn pleases in secondary as a upgrade. 2. Starks gone, Cooper in & Armonty Bryant on the brink of out. Plenty of DE & PR at top of draft to equal Cooper? 3. Got to throw a WR in there somewhere with no Benji & a Gordon 4. We get Kap, am more leaning Hue see'e something in 4th or 5th with loss of 3rd. FA's of Bailey's & Tuttles, I got nothing but confusion so far

[Tour2ma]

Right....I think we negotiated a long time with all of them.....and, in the end, it is the player who chooses, not the team....

 

(Is it fair to say that none of the prospective free agents will be re-signed?): "... there's a possibility that we'll have a few back. We won't be panicked on any one player but there's some guys we feel like can contribute for us in the fall and we absolutely want to do everything we can, see if we can reach a deal that works for them and us and keep them as Cleveland Browns."

 

True.... and with Gip in particular I think it was clear that we were far apart in the assessment of his value. When that happens any team let's their player test the FA market. In Gip's case he found an employer who simply valued him much higher than we did. It happens... and not just to us.

 

Also will point out that per the quote we do in fact have a few of our FAs back... just not the biggest names.

 

 

The confusion may come from Hue's statements about liking to have all our FAs back. Pretty much the pat answer of every HC in the league not named Belichick.

 

Now we know whose words to lend weight...

[TexasAg1969]

Well bottom line for me is that I now have a far better idea of how they are trying too go about this restructuring than I did before the FA period started. But for most fans I suspect there has been a lot of confusion. That article cleared it up better than anything else I have read on the subject.

 

But doesn't an attempt to get Kap fly in the face of that plan to do it through the draft and not FA?

[LogicIsForSquares]

Well bottom line for me is that I now have a far better idea of how they are trying too go about this restructuring than I did before the FA period started. But for most fans I suspect there has been a lot of confusion. That article cleared it up better than anything else I have read on the subject.

 

But doesn't an attempt to get Kap fly in the face of that plan to do it through the draft and not FA?

It does but if Hue thinks highly of Kaep and can get him on cheap, I guess they will go with it. Leaves the door open to grab up one of the premier defenders or move back.

[Tour2ma]

But doesn't an attempt to get Kap fly in the face of that plan to do it through the draft and not FA?

 

One pseudo-splash acquisition? Not hardly...

[joedawg69]

We could be showing interest in Kaep just to throw everyone off.

[Westside Steve]

So maybe this undying love for Cleveland is based on finances? If Hugh Jackson is in love with this kid for whatever reason he might be the guy to persuade the guys that hold the purse strings to crack open the piggy bank. We know that Denver was having cap problems but the Brownies? They are flush.

WSS

[The Gipper]

Ive mentioned this before....Makes me think about a Belichick interview I heard years ago, where he explained his theory on winning with middling players....which he has found a way to do....

 

Basically, he said you have A players and F players, and B, C & D players......and, due to salary structures, for every A player, you'll end up with more Ds & F's to balance the scale......and, often, when your A goes down, you're stuck with a D or F playing...

 

So, his objective is to load the roster with all B's and C's, who collectively are better than mixing A's and F's.....because there might not be superstars, but there are no big holes(which is more important).....and, quite often, some of those lesser players will surprise you and play like A's.......which we've seen over and over again with the Pats.....

 

So.....reading about Depodesta's history and trying to understand some of what the FO is doing....perhaps they are going to try to get a little better balance on the roster, instead of hoping for one or two big splash players to carry the load.....

 

Personally....I like the theory.....

And Belichick is the luckiest man on earth when he drafted Tom Brady...because he thought he was getting basically a C- player when he got one of the greatest A+ players of all time.

[Mudfly]

And Belichick is the luckiest man on earth when he drafted Tom Brady...because he thought he was getting basically a C- player when he got one of the greatest A+ players of all time.

That would be true........

[miktoxic]

pick wentz or goff at #2 and quit fucking around.

 

although i'm a D first guy, the fact that the browns haven't had a franchise QB in the last 20+ years has obviously cost them. i thought building everything before adding the hood ornament was the way to go (and it prob is still) BUT how can any plan work (building D and OL) when the person trying to install that plan is gone before the plan can be fostered?

 

at least let hue get us the QB we need before he gets canned.

[The Gipper]

pick wentz or goff at #2 and quit fucking around.

 

although i'm a D first guy, the fact that the browns haven't had a franchise QB in the last 20+ years has obviously cost them.

But, many are of the thought that neither of those guys give us the quality of QB that we are looking for...that you are looking.

(but...sure....we won't know for sure until you sign them up and let them play. I get that)

 

i thought building everything before adding the hood ornament was the way to go (and it prob is still) BUT how can any plan work (building D and OL) when the person trying to install that plan is gone before the plan can be fostered?

OK< the Tim Couch/David Carr school of thought.

 

at least let hue get us the QB we need before he gets canned.

[PoeticG]

I hope the Browns don't overthink this. Take Bosa at #2 and then draft...

 

 

Bosa and Lynch