gftChris Posted March 22, 2016 Report Share Posted March 22, 2016 Actually makes for very good reading, and I wold imagine strikes a chord with a lot of people, including demanding the likes of Saudi Arabia and Qatar do more to stop ISIS, condemning Hamas/Hezbullah but also the bombing of hospitals/schools by Israel. Stuff like that. https://berniesanders.com/sanders-outlines-middle-east-policy/ Agree? Disagree? This is, after all, a political board, so we should presumably be able to actually discuss policies! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted March 22, 2016 Report Share Posted March 22, 2016 First of all it sounds to me like the surrender of Israel is the Cornerstone of his Middle East policy. I don't see what's in it for them. Later, as you mentioned, the ouster of Saddam Hussein and Kadafi actually backfired so I don't see what the removal of Assad holds that's so appealing. I don't call him out for this but we should realize that it's really easy to lay out a framework based on working together and Trust negotiation Etc, it does sound like a thoughtful and Progressive step, but I can't imagine it being particularly successful in the real world. Thought the second half will be impossible to navigate and the first part was basically anti-israel and anti Netanyahu. WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted March 22, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 22, 2016 I'm not sure it's about Israel surrendering? It's about bringing peace between them and Palestine. The wider middle east picture, yes, that's going to be tricky to pull off with such conflicting religious and political ideologies and priorities, but he's not wrong about only muslim troops being able to bring a lasting end to ISIS (or whatever whack-a-terrorist-group pops up next) and stability, and requiring a strong and stable Iraqi government also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted March 22, 2016 Report Share Posted March 22, 2016 And I guess I don't see how Israel giving up everything is a negotiation. What does Israel get in return except for a vague and fragile promise of peace if they give up all the contested lands? And do you think that will be good enough? WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LogicIsForSquares Posted March 22, 2016 Report Share Posted March 22, 2016 Palestinian leadership does everything possible to sabotage a two state discussion. Also, there is zero chance of the Gulf States being helpful in the fight against ISIS. Knowing the Saudis, they likely don't mind what they are doing so long as it doesn't destabilize their own country. While Sanders has the right ideas, they are pipe dreams. He thinks he would be dealing with rational leadership in the Middle East. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbluhm86 Posted March 22, 2016 Report Share Posted March 22, 2016 To me, at least, foreign policy is Bernie Sanders biggest weakness. While I'll agree with his call for a multinational effort to stop ISIS, his limiting the US response to just airstrikes and cyberwarfare are only half measures, and they will not ultimately destroy them. ISIS, unequivocally, are inhumane monsters, with zero regard for the sanctity of human life or rights. Resorting to violence only as a last option is a noble goal in life, but it will not work here in this instance. Some people just can't be bartered or negotiated with, and they will only be stopped with the use of violence. ISIS are such people. So, let us not delude ourselves here; ISIS will only be stopped by direct military intervention, i.e. "boots on the ground", whether it's a coalition of nations or just the US. And in this conflict, people are going to die. Soldiers will die. Innocent people in the war zone will die. Innocent civilians around the world are going to die as a result of the ISIS cowards executing suicidal attacks, just as in Belgium today. Make no mistake, this conflict will be very violent and bloody, and things are going to get worse before they get better. But I do believe that it will get better, and the forces of civilization will win if we all have the courage to see this through to the end. My question to Bernie Sanders, if elected, would be if he has the wisdom to recognize the danger that these Islamist terrorists represent, and if he has the courage and fortitude to make the hard decisions that will send young men and women to their deaths fighting to protect not only our country, but free, rational civilization across the world. And from the way he is campaigning on this issuer, I highly doubt that he does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LogicIsForSquares Posted March 22, 2016 Report Share Posted March 22, 2016 And I guess I don't see how Israel giving up everything is a negotiation. What does Israel get in return except for a vague and fragile promise of peace if they give up all the contested lands? And do you think that will be good enough? WSS Palestinians don't even want Palestine. It is hollow rhetoric. If they are their own country, they would have to support themselves and face even harsher retaliation from Israel and its allies due to one sovereign nation attacking another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Cysko Kid Posted March 22, 2016 Report Share Posted March 22, 2016 So bernie sanders suggests that Israel should accede to every Palestinian demand and subsidize a people that want to do then harm? Wha-wha-what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LogicIsForSquares Posted March 22, 2016 Report Share Posted March 22, 2016 So bernie sanders suggests that Israel should accede to every Palestinian demand and subsidize a people that want to do then harm? Wha-wha-what? Excellent usage of Bubbles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyingfooldoug Posted March 22, 2016 Report Share Posted March 22, 2016 I doubt if any policy other than massive nuclear attacks would make a difference over there. Killing is just a way of life over there. How do you change that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbluhm86 Posted March 22, 2016 Report Share Posted March 22, 2016 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted March 22, 2016 Report Share Posted March 22, 2016 Palestinians don't even want Palestine. It is hollow rhetoric. If they are their own country, they would have to support themselves and face even harsher retaliation from Israel and its allies due to one sovereign nation attacking another. Exactly so. It might be a good idea to let them have their own Sovereign land and Country. The next attack on Israel could be considered an act of War and then wipe them off the face of the Earth. (before the lefties start to cry I was being a little facetious) WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbedward Posted March 22, 2016 Report Share Posted March 22, 2016 I'm not very pro-Israel, but I'm not very sure about this policy "Israel, give Palestine the land back" "Hamas, Hezbolla - plz stop" "World, giv some money to rebuild Gaza" "Saudis, plz fight Isis" I do think the US needs to stop letting Israel bend us over, but they have too much money/influence in our politics for that to happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted March 22, 2016 Report Share Posted March 22, 2016 So what are the palestinians then if their not allowed to be a country. Are they, as israel suggests, arab squatters on joo land? Well than theres an awful lot of other sovereign countries like syria and lebanon for example who have some territory that the joo tribes abandoned thousands of years ago. Sorry but israel is a slithering snake in the grass little country. If they would be allowed by the int community to push the palestinians off their lands u bet ur ass the new land claims against other countries kick up in a heartbeat and the whole poor joo woe is us spiel starts all over again. But but but the holocaust, the holocaust!! People condemn any arab leader who questions the holocaust but throw not one stink eye at the joos in israel who "constantly" use the death of 6m people as a political shield for all sorts of behaviors. And any politician in europe or america who dares question the actions of israel gets the anti semite holocaust denier label thrown at him. Hell after everything ive seen the israelis do in my lifetime im at the least a holocaust "inquisitor". Cause its hard for me to imagine a people who really did lose 6m of their own to act in similiar ways towards another people who had "nothing" to do with the nazis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted March 22, 2016 Report Share Posted March 22, 2016 Romans named the conquered land after the enemies of the Jews, the Philistines. There is no Palestinian language, no real Palestinian people. Ancient Palestine Incorporated huge amounts of the Middle East including Jordan. WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Cysko Kid Posted March 22, 2016 Report Share Posted March 22, 2016 Palestine was offered a state in the way back. They declined in favor of trying to murder israel. So, you know, I don't feel sorry for their plight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted March 22, 2016 Report Share Posted March 22, 2016 Palestine was offered a state in the way back. They declined in favor of trying to murder israel. So, you know, I don't feel sorry for their plight. i'm not a big fan of them either, I pretty much hate everything walking in the middle east at this point. But what were they offered? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Cysko Kid Posted March 22, 2016 Report Share Posted March 22, 2016 Google it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted March 22, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 22, 2016 Google it As I understand it, the brits (yay us) wanted to work with the palestinians in the 40s to carve out a piece of land for the jews, and the palestinians basically said 'um, no' and the brits just said 'fuck it, just deal with it, they're here now' and the fun just hasn't stopped since then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted March 22, 2016 Report Share Posted March 22, 2016 As I understand it, the brits (yay us) wanted to work with the palestinians in the 40s to carve out a piece of land for the jews, and the palestinians basically said 'um, no' and the brits just said 'fuck it, just deal with it, they're here now' and the fun just hasn't stopped since then. you fucking brits. Did the world a real solid too when you carved up the middle east with no distinction for Shia's and Sunni's. Like y'all had such a great relationship with Catholics, you couldn't see that one coming? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LogicIsForSquares Posted March 22, 2016 Report Share Posted March 22, 2016 i'm not a big fan of them either, I pretty much hate everything walking in the middle east at this point. But what were they offered? Statehood. They don't want it. That means that the governing body there would be accountable for actually running things. They don't want that responsibility. Better to have the Israeli boogeyman be the fault of all things wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted March 22, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 22, 2016 Oh it's not just limited to the middle east. India/Pakistan? That was us too. Hong Kong/China? That was us too. Africa? Us and the French. South America, now that wasn't us, blame the spanish for that one. But most of the rest of the world, us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted March 22, 2016 Report Share Posted March 22, 2016 I believe the West Bank was occupied by Jordan in the forties. WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted March 22, 2016 Report Share Posted March 22, 2016 Oh it's not just limited to the middle east. India/Pakistan? That was us too. Hong Kong/China? That was us too. Africa? Us and the French. South America, now that wasn't us, blame the spanish for that one. But most of the rest of the world, us. well in India they separated the mooslims from the hindus "for the most part". And Hong Kong was a boner and all but simply nothing compares to the cunt punt you guys put down in the middle east. It almost seems like a deliberate trolling of the mooslims on your guys part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted March 22, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 22, 2016 Absolutely, the middle east was the biggest clusterfuck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LogicIsForSquares Posted March 22, 2016 Report Share Posted March 22, 2016 The way Europeans cut up Africa was also a real shit show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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