Mudfly Posted September 17, 2016 Report Share Posted September 17, 2016 The real problem is that anyone who has an opinion opposing yours is a drama queen, wants attention, etc etc.... And there are a bunch of folks here who dont want you to post your opinion, unless it matches their opinion.... So, post a matching opinion and no one says anything....but post an opposing opinion and get attacked....o Posting your opinion is not being a drama queen....BUT CONSTANTLY GOING AFTER FOLKS WITH OPPOSING OPINIONS IS...so, I think Horta has every right to voice his opinion without all you guys jumping him for it.... So, instead of calling him names and chopping him at the knees, why dont you look in the mirror and realize that it's not drama till you make it such, by trying to silence opinions you dont like... Somehow, people here can EASILY see the greatness that is 5 years away.....YET, the same people claim its premature and not possible for us to see anything bad now, because it's too soon....so, how does that work??? My opinion(a word I like ....a LOT)...opinion//// Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LogicIsForSquares Posted September 17, 2016 Report Share Posted September 17, 2016 The real problem is that anyone who has an opinion opposing yours is a drama queen, wants attention, etc etc.... And there are a bunch of folks here who dont want you to post your opinion, unless it matches their opinion.... So, post a matching opinion and no one says anything....but post an opposing opinion and get attacked....o Posting your opinion is not being a drama queen....BUT CONSTANTLY GOING AFTER FOLKS WITH OPPOSING OPINIONS IS...so, I think Horta has every right to voice his opinion without all you guys jumping him for it.... So, instead of calling him names and chopping him at the knees, why dont you look in the mirror and realize that it's not drama till you make it such, by trying to silence opinions you dont like... Somehow, people here can EASILY see the greatness that is 5 years away.....YET, the same people claim its premature and not possible for us to see anything bad now, because it's too soon....so, how does that work??? My opinion(a word I like ....a LOT)...opinion//// There are very few people here who say that they know for absolute certainty it will work. However, lots of folks are already crying about the decisions made as if they know this regime is clueless and their plan won't work. Reading too much of either side is painful. We just happen to have one side of the wagon loaded up with soothsayers who absolutely know this won't work and cry about it all day. Edit:I don't follow Flugel's take on Hoorta at all. I just think Hoorta is tired of seeing shitty football. I get it. But to say that repeatedly and to infer that the new regime sucks is just beating a dead horse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasAg1969 Posted September 17, 2016 Report Share Posted September 17, 2016 There are very few people here who say that they know for absolute certainty it will work. However, lots of folks are already crying about the decisions made as if they know this regime is clueless and their plan won't work. Reading too much of either side is painful. We just happen to have one side of the wagon loaded up with soothsayers who absolutely know this won't work and cry about it all day. Edit:I don't follow Flugel's take on Hoorta at all. I just think Hoorta is tired of seeing shitty football. I get it. But to say that repeatedly and to infer that the new regime sucks is just beating a dead horse. So therefore................................? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zombo Posted September 17, 2016 Report Share Posted September 17, 2016 Gee I was just SO wrong. What was I thinking? Hue's going to be another Tony Dungy. Nassib? DROY. Kessler will be another Drew Brees. Happy now? Man, I'm done, with a capital D. So sorry I was raining on the happiness train. I have plenty of other things I could do other than waste a lot of time on the Board. He could be Tony Dungy. How bout Jimmy Johnson? If you'll recall, he took over a floundering 3-13 team and blew it up. He went 1-15 the first year, and I'm sure there was a lot of bitching and moaning, but he had a plan and he stuck to it. 1-15, 7-9, 11-5, Super Bowl. And he did it through the draft. Traded Herschel Walker for a boatload of draft picks, just like the boatload we have accumulated. We have incredible ammunition in next year's draft. You can be the Cowboy fan that was crying about the previous regime and laughing at the young Cowboys being overmatched every week, and I can be the guy saying "finally" ... we're going to build through the draft and let the young guys play ... not fill their positions with stopgaps ... get rid of anybody who won't be part of the solution in three years and get draft picks for them. It takes guts to do it this way, but at least they are committed. I don't know if Hue will be Jimmy Johnson ... but wouldn't it be great? I don't know if Carl Nassib will be DROY, but getting nominated for DROW your first week is a start. Something to grab on to. I don't know if Cody Kessler will be any good. But can we wait until he throws an NFL pass before we start ravaging his corpse? Our guys liked him enough to take him in the third round and that is intriguing to me. Just like Coleman, Oggie, Nassib, Scobert, Kindred, etc are intriguing to me. I'm giving them a chance. Maybe four years from now I am watching these youngsters in the Super Bowl. With all of those youngsters coming in next year ... I'm pretty sure I am going to root for those guys too. You are welcome to your opinions that is what the board is for. But responding to every one of my posts, even when I'm not in a conversation with you, with your negative take is feeling a lot like trolling. I don't take kindly to trolls. Bite me and I bite back. I defend my Brownies. No reason why we can't coexist ... but if you jump on my posts you're going to deal with the angry elf. That's how this works. Zombo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted September 17, 2016 Report Share Posted September 17, 2016 Ive not heard anyone reasonable say "it absolutely wont work"....or that the FO should be canned....etc.....yet I keep seeing accusations that is what we are saying.... So....You can say "I like what I see" and thats great.....BUT, when I say "I dont like what I see".....Im a crybaby negative asshole who has no way to know that..... Both myself and Horta are on record as saying we will wait and see....we WANT them to do well....we HOPE they are great.....and this all gets ignored and twisted into "we are rooting for the Browns to fail....we're not giving the FO a chance.....we want them fired....etc.... Hey, everyone critiques everything that happens....we critique the draft, the roster, each player and each game...yet, a negative critique is "baaaaaad", but a positive critique is being a good fan... I know you keep saying Ill give it 3 years....wont form an opinion till 3 years....etc.....personally, I dont need 3 years to form an opinion. Can my opinion change?....of course....its not carved in stone.....and there is nothing wrong with commenting on players, their performances, moves made by the team, etc....it's what we do.... You say "stop crying"....and I say stop crying about crying.....we all have opinions and have a right to voice em... That is what I see here..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LogicIsForSquares Posted September 17, 2016 Report Share Posted September 17, 2016 Ive not heard anyone reasonable say "it absolutely wont work"....or that the FO should be canned....etc.....yet I keep seeing accusations that is what we are saying.... So....You can say "I like what I see" and thats great.....BUT, when I say "I dont like what I see".....Im a crybaby negative asshole who has no way to know that..... Both myself and Horta are on record as saying we will wait and see....we WANT them to do well....we HOPE they are great.....and this all gets ignored and twisted into "we are rooting for the Browns to fail....we're not giving the FO a chance.....we want them fired....etc.... Hey, everyone critiques everything that happens....we critique the draft, the roster, each player and each game...yet, a negative critique is "baaaaaad", but a positive critique is being a good fan... I know you keep saying Ill give it 3 years....wont form an opinion till 3 years....etc.....personally, I dont need 3 years to form an opinion. Can my opinion change?....of course....its not carved in stone.....and there is nothing wrong with commenting on players, their performances, moves made by the team, etc....it's what we do.... You say "stop crying"....and I say stop crying about crying.....we all have opinions and have a right to voice em... That is what I see here..... You have a right to an opinion as does everyone else who is sick of hearing boohooing. That doesn't mean that someone can't be critical of choices made. However, menstruating over past regimes and projecting on to the new one will get people bagging on the bleeder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LogicIsForSquares Posted September 17, 2016 Report Share Posted September 17, 2016 Until we have a definitive idea of what we have in these rookies, I won't have too many opinions yay or nay. If the rookies stink at the end of the year then I will question the front office and the coaches in charge of developing them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flugel Posted September 17, 2016 Report Share Posted September 17, 2016 Ive not heard anyone reasonable say "it absolutely wont work"....or that the FO should be canned....etc.....yet I keep seeing accusations that is what we are saying.... So....You can say "I like what I see" and thats great.....BUT, when I say "I dont like what I see".....Im a crybaby negative asshole who has no way to know that..... Both myself and Horta are on record as saying we will wait and see....we WANT them to do well....we HOPE they are great.....and this all gets ignored and twisted into "we are rooting for the Browns to fail....we're not giving the FO a chance.....we want them fired....etc.... Hey, everyone critiques everything that happens....we critique the draft, the roster, each player and each game...yet, a negative critique is "baaaaaad", but a positive critique is being a good fan... I know you keep saying Ill give it 3 years....wont form an opinion till 3 years....etc.....personally, I dont need 3 years to form an opinion. Can my opinion change?....of course....its not carved in stone.....and there is nothing wrong with commenting on players, their performances, moves made by the team, etc....it's what we do.... You say "stop crying"....and I say stop crying about crying.....we all have opinions and have a right to voice em... That is what I see here..... Just out of curiosity, who keeps calling you into this beside Hoorta? I don't see anyone calling you out. Nobody. Who here has asked Hoorta to predict an undefeated season here? Who here made him purchase game tickets while he wants to tell everyone he's not buying anything from this franchise? Nobody. You 2 guys are announcing accusations that aren't being said while you're complaining everyone is accusing both of you. Again, I don't see anyone calling you out Mud - while Hoorta is referring to all those that didn't join his sudden about-face a Sunshine Train. If anything, you've been crystal clear where you stand so there's less need to question you. All I know is I read a lot of conclusions from Hoorta from what he saw on the field in the preseason while I haven't read anybody announcing to others we should all expect flawless football this year or we're not real fans. Zombo merely asked if one already expects a rebuild type of disappointing season - why act more surprised than others when one sees what he predicted? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zombo Posted September 17, 2016 Report Share Posted September 17, 2016 Ive not heard anyone reasonable say "it absolutely wont work"....or that the FO should be canned....etc.....yet I keep seeing accusations that is what we are saying.... So....You can say "I like what I see" and thats great.....BUT, when I say "I dont like what I see".....Im a crybaby negative asshole who has no way to know that..... Both myself and Horta are on record as saying we will wait and see....we WANT them to do well....we HOPE they are great.....and this all gets ignored and twisted into "we are rooting for the Browns to fail....we're not giving the FO a chance.....we want them fired....etc.... Hey, everyone critiques everything that happens....we critique the draft, the roster, each player and each game...yet, a negative critique is "baaaaaad", but a positive critique is being a good fan... I know you keep saying Ill give it 3 years....wont form an opinion till 3 years....etc.....personally, I dont need 3 years to form an opinion. Can my opinion change?....of course....its not carved in stone.....and there is nothing wrong with commenting on players, their performances, moves made by the team, etc....it's what we do.... You say "stop crying"....and I say stop crying about crying.....we all have opinions and have a right to voice em... That is what I see here..... I have no problem with you and Larry or anybody else. You are encouraged to share your opinions. I know Larry very well, and he is a longtime loyal Browns fan. I'm going to see him next week, we are going to break bread and watch the Miami game together. Tour too. (Poor Tour, he's probably thinking "What have I got myself into!). And Mud, you are one of my favorite posters, you snapped after last year, can't blame you, and now it is going to take a while for the Browns to build back your trust. You need to see some signs ... I get it, I really do. Maybe I just need to explain how I work, and how I have always worked: If you are over in thread A with an opposing opinion to mine, I pretty much leave it alone. If you come into my thread ... then we're going to talk. And if you start responding to all of my posts, regardless of which thread, just to be disagreeable with me ... I take the gloves off. You've stayed clear of me ... I respect your opinion. Larry kept snipping at me ... he gets my opinion explained to him in no uncertain terms. That's all. In the end, we are all just one big fucked-up family with crazy Uncle Ghoolie in the corner restrained in a straight jacket with foam coming out of his mouth. I'm cool with everybody ... except the Steeler fans. And I still have my eye on that "Tex" guy. But if someone wants to dance... I'll dance. Zombo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flugel Posted September 17, 2016 Report Share Posted September 17, 2016 if you start responding to all of my posts, regardless of which thread, just to be disagreeable with me ... I take the gloves off. You've stayed clear of me ... I respect your opinion. Larry kept snipping at me ... he gets my opinion explained to him in no uncertain terms. Zombo Much better said than I did - but totally agree with 100% of it on my behalf as well. I'm not calling out Mud - Hoorta keeps attaching his name like people are calling out Mud. The 2 guys came from very different positions before Larry has come to pretend there's only a small nucleus of fans thinking they're better off with a wait and see first. Did any of Hoorta's preseason summaries look anything close to he's on a wait and see first mode? They looked pretty conclusive to me and others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miktoxic Posted September 17, 2016 Report Share Posted September 17, 2016 shoulda kept butch davis. shoulda kept mangini. shoulda kept pettine. yeah. i said it. isn't it amazing that someone will 'cry' for a regime to be fired because they personally don't like them, the new regime get's hired, the people that liked the last call it a dumb move and say the new regime will suck. all of a sudden the people that like the new regime say 'stop crying'. sounds like talking out the sides of their faces to me. hue jackson is the second coming of the great white whale (holmgren), except hue is black. (oops better not use the word black......eh?). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted September 17, 2016 Report Share Posted September 17, 2016 Oh brother. The guy that brought Carson Palmer to Oakland and Cody Kessler to Cleveland and made stars out of Joe Flacco and And Dalton must have a black QB as starter ... lol. Griffin was a former #2 overall pick that was cheap and available, and once LA traded up to get Hue's boy Goff (white as the driven snow) we traded out on Wentz to gamble on RG3 for a year, knowing we would be a major player in the 2017 draft with a very young team and two first rounders. Here, is our latest QB hire, Hogan is usually an Irish name, but you better check his lineage for sure: Just wondering if we are choosing starters on the color of their skin on the other side of the ball too, because our Black GM, Black HC and Black DC just made starters out of third round pick Carl Nassib and 4th round pick Joe Schobert ... somebody better tell them they are white. Zombo I know, I said that it was not my theory...just a theory I heard propounded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted September 17, 2016 Report Share Posted September 17, 2016 The real problem is that anyone who has an opinion opposing yours is a drama queen, wants attention, etc etc.... And there are a bunch of folks here who dont want you to post your opinion, unless it matches their opinion.... So, post a matching opinion and no one says anything....but post an opposing opinion and get attacked....o Posting your opinion is not being a drama queen....BUT CONSTANTLY GOING AFTER FOLKS WITH OPPOSING OPINIONS IS...so, I think Horta has every right to voice his opinion without all you guys jumping him for it.... So, instead of calling him names and chopping him at the knees, why dont you look in the mirror and realize that it's not drama till you make it such, by trying to silence opinions you dont like... Somehow, people here can EASILY see the greatness that is 5 years away.....YET, the same people claim its premature and not possible for us to see anything bad now, because it's too soon....so, how does that work??? My opinion(a word I like ....a LOT)...opinion//// I admit it. I am coming out of the closet. I am a Drama Queen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted September 17, 2016 Report Share Posted September 17, 2016 There are very few people here who say that they know for absolute certainty it will work. However, lots of folks are already crying about the decisions made as if they know this regime is clueless and their plan won't work. Edit:I don't follow Flugel's take on Hoorta at all. I just think Hoorta is tired of seeing shitty football. I get it. But to say that repeatedly and to infer that the new regime sucks is just beating a dead horse. Funny thing is that is not where hoorta started... and it's really not where he is. In defending his skepticism he has been cast in a negative light. And there are others in hoorta's boat as well. Your "tally" of where folks stand says as much. I'll add that I disagree with your tally in a couple ways. First: The scale is not as simple as one end or the other. There's a whole continuum of views from totally negative to totally positive. Second: The true count at the two extremes is not lopsided to the negative, but rather it is essentially equal. The bulk of the forum is actually somewhere in the middle, skeptics awaiting data. Both myself and Horta are on record as saying we will wait and see....we WANT them to do well....we HOPE they are great.....and this all gets ignored and twisted into "we are rooting for the Browns to fail....we're not giving the FO a chance.....we want them fired....etc.... Or to summarize: "If you ain't with us, then you're against us." Some folks simply can't handle more than binary options... I know Larry very well, and he is a longtime loyal Browns fan. I'm going to see him next week, we are going to break bread and watch the Miami game together. Tour too. (Poor Tour, he's probably thinking "What have I got myself into!). lol... I have to admit that I was thinking of packing my old, Indians' batting helmet... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pumpkin Eater Posted September 17, 2016 Report Share Posted September 17, 2016 but...but...Kessler's first pass was for a touchdown! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted September 17, 2016 Report Share Posted September 17, 2016 Much better said than I did - but totally agree with 100% of it on my behalf as well. I'm not calling out Mud - Hoorta keeps attaching his name like people are calling out Mud. The 2 guys came from very different positions before Larry has come to pretend there's only a small nucleus of fans thinking they're better off with a wait and see first. Did any of Hoorta's preseason summaries look anything close to he's on a wait and see first mode? They looked pretty conclusive to me and others. Looked to me like Mud's been calling you out. Since I've done it more than a few times I think I know what it looks like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flugel Posted September 17, 2016 Report Share Posted September 17, 2016 Looked to me like Mud's been calling you out. Since I've done it more than a few times I think I know what it looks like. So I need to pretend I've treated him horribly all this time in here or that I singled out Mud and repeatedly announced he's is crybaby without a single cut and paste of me doing that? Sorry, I'm not taking the guilt trip. You ought to be used to that one too even though it's been awhile... I was only talking to Hoorta and directing my comments at him when Mud chimed in. You know that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canton Mike Posted September 17, 2016 Report Share Posted September 17, 2016 Boy, this is starting to look like a dirty political campaign that seems to be creating animosity among some well respected posters. There is no need to "call out" a poster because of differing points of view or pit one poster against another. I don't believe that was any of their intention. It's still far too early for any of us to know where the Browns are headed down the road and as Fans we have a variety of opinions but they need not put us in "attack mode". Can we just agree to disagree in a civil manner? I'm taking the "wait & see" approach and sticking to my philosophy that positives do not result from negatives. I'll support the Coaches & Players on the Browns, whoever they may be & GO BROWNS!! Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted September 17, 2016 Report Share Posted September 17, 2016 Mike, It's been a phase of every season since I've been here. Why should this one be different? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canton Mike Posted September 17, 2016 Report Share Posted September 17, 2016 Mike, It's been a phase of every season since I've been here. Why should this one be different? Tour, I understand what you're saying, but it usually doesn't involve some of our best & most knowledgeable posters against one another. That's what bothered me. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flugel Posted September 17, 2016 Report Share Posted September 17, 2016 Boy, this is starting to look like a dirty political campaign that seems to be creating animosity among some well respected posters. There is no need to "call out" a poster because of differing points of view or pit one poster against another. I don't believe that was any of their intention. It's still far too early for any of us to know where the Browns are headed down the road and as Fans we have a variety of opinions but they need not put us in "attack mode". Can we just agree to disagree in a civil manner? I'm taking the "wait & see" approach and sticking to my philosophy that positives do not result from negatives. I'll support the Coaches & Players on the Browns, whoever they may be & GO BROWNS!! Mike Thanks Mike! I appreciate that! Yeah, it's a lot of fun responding to an accusation that isn't true especially when I consider Mud as one of the best posters we have. If anyone gives him more great posts and green thatta boys than me - I'd be surprised. I also told him I've always enjoyed the game face promoted in here. I started a Happy Birthday thread Mud because I can't wait to dis-respect him. I also gave him a great to see you back in the mix when he returned to the board because my priority is disrespecting him of all people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flugel Posted September 17, 2016 Report Share Posted September 17, 2016 Tour, I understand what you're saying, but it usually doesn't involve some of our best & most knowledgeable posters against one another. That's what bothered me. Mike Thanks Mike! People can read Hoorta calling people the Sunshine Train and understand Mud never slung the same mud or created the same precedent Hoorta has. There's more than just me and Zombo seeing the difference between Hoorta and Mud. Those that want to see it really easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted September 17, 2016 Report Share Posted September 17, 2016 Flugs, For the record... I do not believe you're as dense as you are pretending to be. Also not trying to "guilt" you... just reflecting reality which is that hoorta's views are closer to Mud's than you seem to want to admit. When you interjected yourself in h's discussion with Z, you left the door open for Mud to join in as well. By going after h, you went after Mud by proxy. Same as h, Mud is just defending his skepticism. It happens in forums... lotta cross-currents in them. Intent sometimes doesn't matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted September 17, 2016 Report Share Posted September 17, 2016 Those that want to see it really easy. That's true... On the other hand a neutral observer... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Opal312 Posted September 17, 2016 Report Share Posted September 17, 2016 Notre Dame vs Michigan St. Tonight. Get a good look at Kiser. He does have size at 6'5" 230lbs. I can't believe we didn't take Wentz and we are talking about QB's for 2017. OMG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flugel Posted September 17, 2016 Report Share Posted September 17, 2016 Flugs, For the record... I do not believe you're as dense as you are pretending to be. Also not trying to "guilt" you... just reflecting reality which is that hoorta's views are closer to Mud's than you seem to want to admit. When you interjected yourself in h's discussion with Z, you left the door open for Mud to join in as well. By going after h, you went after Mud by proxy. Same as h, Mud is just defending his skepticism. It happens in forums... lotta cross-currents in them. Intent sometimes doesn't matter. Thanks Tour! FWIW, Larry and I have known each other since 98 and we're getting together in Nashville so there's a mutual understanding between us there is no hostility outside the ribbing in here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D Bone Posted September 17, 2016 Report Share Posted September 17, 2016 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted September 18, 2016 Report Share Posted September 18, 2016 Right...Flugel, Zombo....Im not trying to be a dick and it'shard to create proper tone on the forum...you guys are great and super fans.....dont let my Browns disappointment make you think Im pissed at you or its a personal thing,,,,Zombo nailed my state of mind... ... just reflecting reality which is that hoorta's views are closer to Mud's than you seem to want to admit. When you interjected yourself in h's discussion with Z, you left the door open for Mud to join in as well. By going after h, you went after Mud by proxy. Same as h, Mud is just defending his skepticism. And Tour nailed this ^^^^^.....spot on......just stepping up to the plate for the "skeptics" who were being called out....and include myself in that group currently and was just trying to convey our point of view.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gumby73 Posted September 18, 2016 Report Share Posted September 18, 2016 Only thing missing is Flug in the middle as Bobby "the brain" Hennan ..Thanks Canton Mike..The voice of reason(it's gunna be a long season) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasAg1969 Posted September 18, 2016 Report Share Posted September 18, 2016 Notre Dame vs Michigan St. Tonight. Get a good look at Kiser. He does have size at 6'5" 230lbs. I can't believe we didn't take Wentz and we are talking about QB's for 2017. OMG MSU making him look pedestrian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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