Maiava

[We need Tom Tupa]

The Pats took Tyrone McKenzie just ahead of us at the end of round 3. Is it just me, or is Maiava the exact same kind of player? They are both described as quick, fluid, fast, chase-and-run LBs that are undersized, dont shed blocks, and have their tackles broken occasionally. They are versatile players that can be moved around the field and counted on to be get to the action quickly. I dont think either is considered a potential star, but there is little doubt that they will be productive as versatile backups/ST guys. This fits in perfectly what what Mankok has done all weekend - another cant-bust player that disappoints us because we dont see huge upside.

[We need Tom Tupa]

It looks like they might think that none of the RBs were worth the pick. A upgrade at o-line could improve our ground game, and next year's draft is a lot stronger at RB than this one (or so Im told). Just look at those 4 Rbs that we were talking about in round 3. We hoped a couple would survive round 3, but it looks like they might all make it to round 5 at this point. Unlike LB, RB isnt a position where I'd advocate taking a guy this year that you dont ever expect to be a strong starter. If we need a new starter next year, then the last thing we want to do it cut a guy we just picked up.

 

Also, watch for quite a few RBs to get cut after the draft, Joseph Addai among them.

[Guest Aloysius]

The Giants just took Andre Brown. And now they've replaced Derrick Ward.

 

[We need Tom Tupa]

The Giants just took Andre Brown. And now they've replaced Derrick Ward.

 

That makes a lot more sense to me than us drafting him. In NY, he has a permanent place as a complimentary back. In Cleveland, he would spend a year splitting carries with JL and JH and then sit behind a big young starting RB next year (hopefully). I'd much rather sign a vet to play the role of stopgap than spend the 106th pick on it.

[Guest Aloysius]

Could be.

 

I'm really high on Brown, but he's got some durability issues and wasn't a great student. Not surprised that Mangini didn't take him, but I also wouldn't be surprised if he ends up being a better back than whichever back we draft next year.

 

Re: the Maiava-McKenzie comparison...sorry, I don't see it. McKenzie is bigger and more physical, though intelligence has been a question with him. And you had a couple 3-4 teams expressing interest in McKenzie in the past couple weeks; I didn't see similar reports linking Maiava to teams running odd man fronts.

 

Not sure what the Browns see in him: maybe they like him in a Gary Guyton-type coverage role - He could sub in for Eric Barton on passing downs and make Leon Williams expendable. But if that's the role they see him playing, I would have preferred they'd gotten him or a similar player later in the draft (or as a UDFA).

[Oldcrow1945]

Could Maiava be a future strong Safety? He's only 6' and 230 lbs.

 

That was the first thing I thought of when I saw that pick.

[We need Tom Tupa]

I have no doubt that you've seen more of these guys than I have, but the scouting reports dont leave me with the impression that McKenzie is any more physical than Maiava.

 

Maiava had 30 reps to McKenzie's 27 at the combine.

NFL Draft Prospectus:

 

McKenzie:

Strengths: Active. Instinctive. Always around the ball. Solid tackler. Good in coverage. Could stay on the field in nickel and dime situations. Versatile. Has also played MLB. Had a good Senior Bowl week.

Weaknesses: A bit small. Can be engulfed and run at. Would likely have to come off the field in obvious running situations.

 

Maiava:

Strengths: Strong tackler who has good instincts and is always around the ball. Outstanding football IQ. Physical player. Will contribute on all special teams.

Weaknesses: Can get twisted and turned in coverage. Needs to show he's more than a one year wonder. Lacks ideal height. Didn't record a sack his SR year.

 

Scott Wright:

Mckenzie

Strengths: athleticism, speed, quickness, range, instincts, versatility, ST potential

Weaknesses: not very strong or physical, not a big hitter, definitely isnt a thumper

 

Maiava:

Strengths: agility, speed, quickness, good strength, good tackler, active, fluid, tough, plays physical

Weakneses: small, limited experience, struggles to shed blockers

 

 

 

 

We are now a full round past our last pick, and 4 of the 5 RBs that I saw mentioned here as targets at that pick are still on the board.

[We need Tom Tupa]

Could Maiava be a future strong Safety? He's only 6' and 230 lbs.

 

That was the first thing I thought of when I saw that pick.

 

That's a possibility. And I'll choose to promote it because it furthers my argument here - he's a versatile, smart, hard working defender - the kind of guy you see in NE.

[Guest Aloysius]

You're right that neither is the prototype for playing 3-4 ILB, but I think McKenzie's closer to being a fit.

 

For instance, check out how the two were graded by nfldraftscout. McKenzie grades out adequately in the areas you'd like to see a 3-4 ILB excel in, whereas Maiava gets some weak grades.

 

Maiva

 

Use of Hands: Maiava uses his hands well to control and shed blocks vs. tight ends and lead blockers, but lacks the bulk and arm length to stave off reach blocks when engaging offensive linemen. He does a nice job of rerouting tight ends and backs in the short-area passing game, knowing how to get his hands on the opponent's jersey and not be seen by the refs. He takes good swipes with his hands when facing up to the offensive lineman, but fails to deliver enough force to rock those linemen back on their heels. He shows aggression vs. the smaller running backs and receivers, but you don't see him use his hands to stack and control when working at the line of scrimmage. GRADE: 5.4

 

Tackling Ability: Maiava can deliver explosive hits when he connects on the move. He will get out of control and forget to break down in space, on occasion, but is a decent wrap-up tackler who shows the aggression as you'd like from a linebacker. He will get engulfed too often when taking on offensive linemen, but has decent success when asked to face up to the lead blockers in the rush lanes. GRADE: 5.7

 

Run Defense: Maiava spends a lot of his time trying to avoid bigger blockers, which results in him not making as many inside running plays like a linebacker should. He can make some plays off stunts when working in-line, but they are few and far between. He just does not have the lower body strength or size to hold his ground firmly at the point of attack. He has the balance and foot speed to string outside running plays, where he can play with leverage to force the action back inside. With his lateral agility, he does a nice job of playing to the flow of the game. GRADE: 6.0

McKenzie

 

Use of Hands: McKenzie has developed above average usage and placement in order to compensate for a lack of ideal strength. He extends his hands well, using his wing span to stave off high blocks, but must do a better job of utilizing them to protect his legs from cut blocks. He has the functional power behind them to stun and jolt. But he also fails to protect his knees from the block, resulting in him getting cut easily. He has much better ability to stay on feet when he uses his hands to slip off blocks. He does a better job of working his hands on the move than he does in traffic. He will use his body as a crutch going for the interception, resulting in more pass breakups than interceptions. But, he worked hard during the offseason to reach and snatch the ball away from the body's frame, showing better results when attacking the ball in flight during Senior Bowl practices. GRADE: 6.3

 

Tackling Ability: McKenzie shows very good hip flip when attacking ball carriers, staying low in his pads in attempts to wrap and secure. He has the large hands and torpedo-like hitting ability to create turnovers, as runners need to be extra cautious protecting the ball when this linebacker puts a bead on the ball. Despite his high amount of tackles, he will generally take a side, as he does not have the raw power to hold ground on plays run right at him. He needs to stay low in his pads to be effective as bigger runners have good success breaking his arm tackles when he gets too tall in his stance. He can hit with good force due to his upper body strength, but needs to improve his lower body power base, as he lacks a strong anchor and can be stonewalled trying to attack through the gaps. He is a good hit-and-wrap tackler that will deliver some pop on contact. He is good making plays down the line, as he will strike and wrap with decent authority vs. plays in space. Still, he could use more strength in order to be more physical behind his hits. GRADE: 6.5

 

Run Defense: McKenzie has great success making tackles in space. He has good pursuit speed and a closing burst, showing proper wrap-up technique to secure and bring down the runner. When he waits for the ball carrier to attack him, his adequate lower body strength will see him get run over. He will make every effort to stall the fullback and make the tackle in the holes vs. the inside run, but he does not have the raw strength to stack the bigger offensive linemen. On the outside, he has more than enough foot speed to string the plays wide, along with a quick burst to the ball when working the sidelines. GRADE: 6.5

 

[We need Tom Tupa]

Here's the problem: you're hung up on talent and ability to play football whereas I am enamored with my brilliant McKenzie comparison. Clearly I win.

[Oldcrow1945]

Do you guys remember Polamalu in college?

He wore #43 at USC......Hmmmmmm.

This guy has safety written all over him.

 

 

 

[Guest Aloysius]

The guys at theOBR are hearing that Maiava will be used as a linebacker.

[Guest Aloysius]

Here are some highlights:

 

vs. Oregon State

 

 

 

vs. Virginia

 

 

 

[Greythan]

Leon Williams didn't exactly shine as the nickle LB.

[heckofajobbrownie]

I didn't get the Maiava pick at all. I don't see what he does in a 3-4 other than play special teams.

 

 

[Guest mz.]

The guys at theOBR are hearing that Maiava will be used as a linebacker.

 

I'm with heck, insofar as much as I don't see what he could do for us at LB. I still think there's a very good chance he ends up at safety down the road.

 

[Riffer X]

They said at the presser he is a special teams demon and hardcore. I think they are planning on getting that out of him and whatever extra at LB is a bonus. The league has room for players like him and they can make a difference.

[ballpeen]

I know you don't have to be all that fast at safety.....mostly quick and reactionary with a good eye for the game, but is he fast enough??

 

You also have to look at a guys body. Is he at his top weight or is he going to put on weight as a natural course of aging??

 

I don't know why, but you can just look at some people and tell they are going to bulk up as the hit 25 or 26 years of age.

 

You can't constantly keep a person in wrestling practice trying to make weight. Sooner or later they are going to end up where God and genetics intends them to end up.

[Oldcrow1945]

I don;t care what anyone says. This kid is a future safety. I don't see the Browns drafting a 6' 230 lbs back up linebacker from USC unless they have other plans for him.

Jackson is almost undersized at 6' and 240 lbs. Do they plan on adding an ever smaller one to the LB corps?

 

Look at him.....He looks like an NFL safety.

 

 

[Riffer X]

I don;t care what anyone says. This kid is a future safety. I don't see the Browns drafting a 6' 230 lbs back up linebacker from USC unless they have other plans for him.

Jackson is almost undersized at 6' and 240 lbs. Do they plan on adding an ever smaller one to the LB corps?

 

Look at him.....He looks like an NFL safety.

 

Remember David Fulcher?

[Oldcrow1945]

Remember David Fulcher?

 

Sure...A huge safety for the Bengals.

 

Kaluka could be that kind of player at safety

 

 

Safety Kaluka Maiava.

[JewDago]

the talk about moving maiava to S is a little nuts. even if he were to lose weight, it wouldn't magically make him fast enough to play a deep zone or make his coverage skills good enough to hang with a receiving TE or 3rd WR. he's going to play specials and be a backup ILB. he's the new regime's replacement for leon williams.

 

maiava needs to add some weight and muscle at this point in his career so he can become a viable player on the inside. he's got a frame that can handle at least another fifteen pounds, which he'll likely have by the end of next offseason's strength and conditioning program.

 

at some point, he could end up stepping in and playing with d'qwell rather than as just his replacement once the stopgaps have finished being useful. remember, mangini likes smaller, faster guys on the inside and bigger guys on the outside. this, of course, is all assuming that mangini's still around in three years.

[Oldcrow1945]

the talk about moving maiava to S is a little nuts.

 

We'll see. A strong safety's first priority is the run. Maiava actually runs a faster 40 than his fellow Trojan and safety Kevin Ellison.

 

There is little shot of him playing in the inside. If the Browns drafted him as a LB then it has to be a weakside LB.

He doesn't have any of the tools to be a ILB.

Read all the scouting reports. Lacks the size and strength to put up with the rigors of playing inside. Eludes blocks well and plays well in space. Good lateral movement.

[BrownIndian]

Ma ya hee, ma ya haa , Ma ha hoo, Maiava haa.

Ma ya hee, ma ya haa, Ma ha hoo, Maiava haa.

 

And then Rhianna and TI start singing .....

[JewDago]

We'll see. A strong safety's first priority is the run. Maiava actually runs a faster 40 than his fellow Trojan and safety Kevin Ellison.

 

There is little shot of him playing in the inside. If the Browns drafted him as a LB then it has to be a weakside LB.

He doesn't have any of the tools to be a ILB.

Read all the scouting reports. Lacks the size and strength to put up with the rigors of playing inside. Eludes blocks well and plays well in space. Good lateral movement.

kevin ellison was a really, really slow safety. it's pure speculation as to why ellison was at S and maiava was at LB at USC, but it could have something to do with how good each is in coverage.

 

while maiava would be a good fit for a 4-3 will, he's far, far too small to be a mangini 3-4 will. dude likes his OLBs to run in the neighborhood of at least 250, if not larger. however, he prefers guys who aren't quite as big on the inside so they have the range to chase down plays on the sidelines.

 

if he eludes blocks well and plays well in space with good lateral movement, how aren't those keys to playing inside? it's always possible for a guy to bulk up. adding weight and muscle would increase his strength and make it easier for him to deal with the rigors of being an ILB. it's also a sign that he had zero sacks his senior year that maiava isn't viewed as an OLB.

 

ultimately, though, we're talking about a special teams player and backup at this point in his career, and, unless he magically gets faster and good in coverage or manages to work hand enough in the weight room to bulk up to a weight where he's strong enough to hold the point of attack, maiava's going to be just a role player, likely a smarter (i hope) version of leon williams, and someone whose ceiling is likely as a nickle LB.

[Oldcrow1945]

if he eludes blocks well and plays well in space with good lateral movement, how aren't those keys to playing inside?

 

ILB's job isn't to alude, it's to take on blocks and shed. Playing well in space and eluding are refences to what weakside LB's do.

It's the same with "Playing well in space"...ILB's are not in space. They are point of attack players. Lateral movent is not that important. Especially in a 3-4. Their job is to plug rushing lanes.

[YtownBrownsBacker]

I just talked about this in another thread. Belichick/Parcel 3-4 systems don't really have a FS and a SS. they like two safties who can cover and also come up and play in the box. Both are sort of FS/SS. That has evolved into a need for a small LB, ala Maiava to play in special sets or in run situations. So although Maiava is a ILB, he is actually a new hybrid type ILB who can play like a SS and also provide better run support.

 

They are not converting him, but he will need to be a tough special teamer and also a guy who they can bring in in certain situations for run support and also a guy who can cover TEs and RBs.

 

As more teams move to the 3-4 there comes more speciality sets that are being run out of it. Sets like a 2-5-4 or a 3-5-3 or 4-4-3 instead of staying in the basic 3-4-4 which, in itself, gives you the ability to be diverse with two OLBs that can rush like DEs. Know we will see speciality guys like a Maiava who will be a hybrid LB/SS.

 

It will be very interesting to see what Ryan does to create a pass rush and stuff the run. I don't expect to see a continual dose of a standard 3-4 defense.

 

Mangini said hybrid guys give you a chance to better match up with specific teams.

 

For example, if Pissburgh wants to use two TEs and try to run the ball down our throats, then tha's when you would incorporate a guy like Maiava into the lineup.

[CLEVELandMILIDH]

Ma ya hee, ma ya haa , Ma ha hoo, Maiava haa.

Ma ya hee, ma ya haa, Ma ha hoo, Maiava haa.

 

And then Rhianna and TI start singing .....

 

 

thats freaking halairious, took me a second to figure out what you were trying to say until I seen Rhianna and TI

 

 

[JewDago]

ILB's job isn't to alude, it's to take on blocks and shed. Playing well in space and eluding are refences to what weakside LB's do.

It's the same with "Playing well in space"...ILB's are not in space. They are point of attack players. Lateral movent is not that important. Especially in a 3-4. Their job is to plug rushing lanes.

while you're right about the ILBs not playing in space and that they have to take on blocks instead of eluding them, they still have to be able to move laterally to cover on runs outside the tackles.

 

otherwise, though, you're right that OLBs play in space more than ILBs.

 

ytown has some excellent points, too, and i hope that maiava can fill the rodney harrison type roll for us.

[Guest Aloysius]

The insidery thing I read said that Maiava was more consistent than Maualuga, which isn't a surprise to those of us who've talked about Rey's bipolar play. With that context, it doesn't seem like too huge a compliment.

 

I don't have a hard time seeing Maiava as a guy who can play in this league, but I don't see how it's at SILB. His best shot to have a major impact on defense is if D'Qwell gets hurt (last year was the first time he played 16 games) or doesn't re-sign when his contract expires after this season.