bbedward Posted November 10, 2016 Report Share Posted November 10, 2016 http://globalnews.ca/news/3053324/obama-to-push-for-tpp-trade-deal-in-last-days-of-term-canadian-ambassador/ Scumbag Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted November 10, 2016 Report Share Posted November 10, 2016 Well if that's the plan then the Republicans in the Senate and Congress need to step up. If they don't they underscore the reason that Donald Trump won the nomination. I am suspicious that TPP puts a lot of money and a lot of different people's pockets, not necessarily The Working Man, and the politicians might decide to look the other way. WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldBrownsFan Posted November 10, 2016 Report Share Posted November 10, 2016 I don't see him getting congressional approval though. Looking forward to Trump coming into office and undoing all those executive orders Obama signed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieHardBrownsFan Posted November 10, 2016 Report Share Posted November 10, 2016 Speaker Ryan should just recess until after the coronation of President Trump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted November 10, 2016 Report Share Posted November 10, 2016 Thats fucked, it really is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted November 10, 2016 Report Share Posted November 10, 2016 Free trade and free movement is great, but it only works between (and within) nations where the standard and cost of living is roughly equivalent, so that companies can't drain jobs away from any area, and so people don't abandon lower income areas in favour of higher. So Canada/US free trade, UK/France/Germany, great. US/Mexico, not so much. US/Vietnam, not so much. It's something to aim for, sure, but there's such a long way to go before we get there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted November 10, 2016 Report Share Posted November 10, 2016 Plus if anybody thinks we are going to have hundreds of thousands of tired Builders and other semi skilled laborers making upper middle-class salaries like in the seventies they are dreaming. WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldBrownsFan Posted November 10, 2016 Report Share Posted November 10, 2016 Free trade and free movement is great, but it only works between (and within) nations where the standard and cost of living is roughly equivalent, so that companies can't drain jobs away from any area, and so people don't abandon lower income areas in favour of higher. So Canada/US free trade, UK/France/Germany, great. US/Mexico, not so much. US/Vietnam, not so much. It's something to aim for, sure, but there's such a long way to go before we get there. Makes sense to me. (why I was always against NAFTA) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted November 10, 2016 Report Share Posted November 10, 2016 Plus if anybody thinks we are going to have hundreds of thousands of tired Builders and other semi skilled laborers making upper middle-class salaries like in the seventies they are dreaming. WSS Maybe not brickies and skivvies, but over here at least you can make an exceptionally good living (roughly double national average) as a plumber, electrician etc. There's also a great shortage of it, which is being filled in part by foreigners. Presumably, people of my generation are less enthused by actually having to do physical work and think it's beneath them. I doubt most could change a fuse or rewire a plug. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbedward Posted November 10, 2016 Author Report Share Posted November 10, 2016 Here's some info I sent Tour about the TPP a while back: I don't really have the time to write much about how the TPP is horrible at the moment, it is 5000+ pages after all. Basically it's being sold under the ruse of a simple free trade deal, but they bloated the hell out of it in other ways. Among them is tightening copyright laws and punishments for such things, strengthening the DMCA, etc. This covers the electronic/internet problems with it pretty well, with citations: https://www.eff.org/issues/tpp Of course as a software engineer/computer guy the internet freedom/boosted regulations/policing/net neutrality aspects are about the most important part to me. But there's plenty of other things that seem fishy to be included in a huge multi-nation global "trade" agreement. http://www.citizen.org/documents/analysis-tpp-text-november-2015.pdf That is the public citizen analysis, which highlights some other non-trade related TPP provisions. And of course, the USITC analysis projects a 0.15% annual GDP growth under the agreement. https://www.usitc.gov/press_room/news_release/2016/er0518ll597.htm Basically nothing, given all of the bloat it contains. And of course you can generally anticipate that to be the "bottom line" as what happened with NAFTA - companies will find new havens where they can pay extremely low wages for all kinds of jobs, manufacturing and otherwise, let them import goods to the US and other partner countries for nothing. Boosting their bottom line, giving a miniscule boost to the GP - while costing however many hundreds of thousands of US jobs in the process. It's a bad deal - and one that I'd historically expect the democrats to reject (many democrats do reject it, supposedly Hillary since last year although she has praised it on countless occasions calling it the "gold standard") and republicans to embrace (which is pretty much the case - with mostly some tea partiers rejecting it) I don't expect it to go to congress before the next president is inaugerated, given how controversial it is I'd think it'd be a bad move on Obama's part. If Hillary wins, I fully expect her to change a few commas and get it passed (Terry McAuliffe seems to think so too). Of course - if Trump wins, the US will back out immediately and the deal will collapse (as will the TTiP). Which in my opinion is great, the TPP is the biggest issue for me this election - one thing the next president will make a decision on that will have a huge impact on the US in the not-so-distant future. China/red scare tactics - that's how it always works. "If we don't pass it China will become the world's biggest super power" Of course, China still has the RCEP - which is a free trade agreement composing of pacific countries that make up something of 27% of the global trade share. The RCEP overlaps with some of the TPP countries as well - Vietnam, Malaysia. That gives China their potential "backdoor" that was mentioned by Trump to the US and others via the TPP. Or otherwise, China could just make slight progress on labor laws and join the TPP themselves in a few years really. China will be getting their FTAAP regardless of the TPP - the TPP is too big, gross, corrupt, and bad for the homeland in comparison to the mild effects it would have on stymying China's dominance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted November 10, 2016 Report Share Posted November 10, 2016 Maybe not brickies and skivvies, but over here at least you can make an exceptionally good living (roughly double national average) as a plumber, electrician etc. There's also a great shortage of it, which is being filled in part by foreigners. Presumably, people of my generation are less enthused by actually having to do physical work and think it's beneath them. I doubt most could change a fuse or rewire a plug.I don't particularly count electricians and plumbers as semi-skilled. It probably ain't rocket science and if I took a long time I might be able to figure out how to do some of it but that's not my thing. I hire people to do it and pay them good money. Same as my skill, not everybody can do it so I get paid pretty well. Lugging a piece of shit from one side to the factory to the other and other menial factory work which I did for a very short period shouldn't earn a guy twice the national average. WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted November 10, 2016 Report Share Posted November 10, 2016 No, but it's not a big step from unskilled, to semi-skilled and then to skilled. Unless you are properly mentally handicapped, you can learn how plumbing works, you can remember brown/live, blue/neutral, green&yellow/earth if you do it every other day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbedward Posted November 10, 2016 Author Report Share Posted November 10, 2016 Trump effect is already taking effect: http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/macnaughton-nafta-trade-softwood-1.3844460 Canada ready to renegotate NAFTA. Mexican president said they'd be open to it too when Trump met with them. Free trade and free movement is great, but it only works between (and within) nations where the standard and cost of living is roughly equivalent, so that companies can't drain jobs away from any area, and so people don't abandon lower income areas in favour of higher. So Canada/US free trade, UK/France/Germany, great. US/Mexico, not so much. US/Vietnam, not so much. It's something to aim for, sure, but there's such a long way to go before we get there. We will have a beautiful free trade agreement with the UK once you guys invoke article 50. You won't be last in line as Obama has said Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLD Woody Posted November 10, 2016 Report Share Posted November 10, 2016 Maybe not brickies and skivvies, but over here at least you can make an exceptionally good living (roughly double national average) as a plumber, electrician etc. There's also a great shortage of it, which is being filled in part by foreigners. Presumably, people of my generation are less enthused by actually having to do physical work and think it's beneath them. I doubt most could change a fuse or rewire a plug. Pretty much the same here. You could make a lot in skilled trades, but it isn't appealing to the younger generation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pumpkin Eater Posted November 10, 2016 Report Share Posted November 10, 2016 Free trade is bullshit. Fair trade is much better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted November 10, 2016 Report Share Posted November 10, 2016 Pretty much the same here. You could make a lot in skilled trades, but it isn't appealing to the younger generation.But if people are talking about the seventies which I remember well we are talking about semi-skilled and even less skilled workers making a great deal of money because the unions had a Stranglehold on the rubber shops.I recall very well standing in line with my buddy, every long line, saying to ourselves man working at Goodyear would suck but if you do you are set for the rest of your life. We had no skills, I suppose we could learn whatever job they had for us if we got hired got accepted into the Union but... I think Woody is correct young people don't want to be electricians Masons concrete workers Carpenters plumbers Etc. Unfortunate. Even something as seemingly thoughtless as hanging drywall takes a skill and ability that many people don't master because they almost never have to do it. WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted November 10, 2016 Report Share Posted November 10, 2016 Free trade is bullshit. Fair trade is much better. What would constitute fair trade for you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieHardBrownsFan Posted November 10, 2016 Report Share Posted November 10, 2016 Trump will dominate world politics. He is going to make AMERICA GREAT AGAIN. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pumpkin Eater Posted November 10, 2016 Report Share Posted November 10, 2016 What would constitute fair trade for you? Level playing fields currency wise, workers making decent wages in decent conditions. That way the people in the country you are trading with can afford to buy some of our shit too; as well they are not being exploited in sweat shops or penny-an-hour jobs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Cysko Kid Posted November 10, 2016 Report Share Posted November 10, 2016 No, but it's not a big step from unskilled, to semi-skilled and then to skilled. Unless you are properly mentally handicapped, you can learn how plumbing works, you can remember brown/live, blue/neutral, green&yellow/earth if you do it every other day. brown and blue? It's black hot white neutral. You crazy brits. In any case if you mess up pushing paper you probably don't electrocute yourself or burn down your house. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Cysko Kid Posted November 10, 2016 Report Share Posted November 10, 2016 Skilled trades are great jobs. The younger generation is r etarded if they choose to turn those jobs over to foreigners. There's not enough liberal arts jobs to go around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
htownbrown Posted November 10, 2016 Report Share Posted November 10, 2016 Skilled trades are great jobs. The younger generation is r etarded if they choose to turn those jobs over to foreigners. There's not enough liberal arts jobs to go around. What's funny is kids nowadays think it's beneath them. You know Mexican kinda work, which is of course remarkably racist. Wait what are these young people protesting against? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLD Woody Posted November 11, 2016 Report Share Posted November 11, 2016 What's funny is kids nowadays think it's beneath them. You know Mexican kinda work, which is of course remarkably racist. Wait what are these young people protesting against? I think you're making a few assumptions here of "young people" The last plant I worked at was UAW. Half of skilled trades could retire immediately, the other half in five years. Good, young candidates did not exist. Yes, it is a well paying job and requires skill, no doubt, but it isn't a "top" job either. If you have the ability to go for a STEM (drink) career, it would make sense to not consider a trade. But for someone in the middle, it is a great option that is too often overlooked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
htownbrown Posted November 11, 2016 Report Share Posted November 11, 2016 Overlooked is a nice way to say it. So what is your explanation for a whole generation to 'overlook' those jobs? I learned a trade so I could pay my way through 8 years of college. I'm sorry I don't understand exactly what your saying. How many top jobs are there in this economy? Do you mean if you're kinda smart then learning a trade is kinda beneath you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted November 11, 2016 Report Share Posted November 11, 2016 Overlooked is a nice way to say it. So what is your explanation for a whole generation to 'overlook' those jobs? I learned a trade so I could pay my way through 8 years of college. I'm sorry I don't understand exactly what your saying. How many top jobs are there in this economy? Do you mean if you're kinda smart then learning a trade is kinda beneath you? Not enough kids planning for their future, thinking about career options, thinking about backup career options, and honestly, trades just aren't "sexy" enough for kids. Everyone wants to be an artist, or whatever the fuck else. I'm pretty sure they don't even *realise* how good the money is in plumbing etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted November 11, 2016 Report Share Posted November 11, 2016 Level playing fields currency wise, workers making decent wages in decent conditions. That way the people in the country you are trading with can afford to buy some of our shit too; as well they are not being exploited in sweat shops or penny-an-hour jobs. I think that's more or less what I'm saying too. Though, you need roughly equal purchasing power to be able to have roughly even trade between two countries. The cost of manufacturing something in the US is obviously a lot higher than in the philippines, for example, just by virtue of the fact that the cost of living is so different. A guy could make five dollars a day or whatever compared to fifty, and he's just not going to buy american built goods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted November 11, 2016 Report Share Posted November 11, 2016 A lot of Americans have lamented that most stuff for sale at stores is from China. I don't know who the dumbass was that let it happen, whoever he/they are, they should be ashamed of what they've done to us. Low cost comes at a cost. It's so bad, you CAN'T buy American most of the time in a store. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbedward Posted November 11, 2016 Author Report Share Posted November 11, 2016 Congressional Democrats and Republicans are saying the TPP is dead now. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/powerpost/wp/2016/11/10/the-trans-pacific-partnership-is-dead-schumer-tells-labor-leaders/ President-elect Trump is already a good president. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbedward Posted November 11, 2016 Author Report Share Posted November 11, 2016 Trump hasn't even been president-elect for 48 hours and already: TPP dead DOW hits record high Canadian and Mexican prime minister announce willingness to re-negotiate NAFTA Russia announces desire for renewed relationship with the US Duterte changes mind on scaling back Alliance with the US Syria announces they're ready to cooperate with Trump Saudi Arabian prince apologizes to Trump New Balance ready to make more shoes in the United States There's just too much winning Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pumpkin Eater Posted November 11, 2016 Report Share Posted November 11, 2016 Damn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.