Question for Hillary supporters

[Clevfan4life]

Yeah but private prisons are fucked up. Its why we have so many incarcerated people for non violent shit, so these private prisons can make money. Given his previous more libertarian rhetoric i am disappointed in this and hopes he backs off that.

[bbedward]

Yeah but private prisons are fucked up. Its why we have so many incarcerated people for non violent shit, so these private prisons can make money. Given his previous more libertarian rhetoric i am disappointed in this and hopes he backs off that.

 

The libertarians are more pro-private prison than anybody...

[gftChris]

Yeah but private prisons are fucked up. Its why we have so many incarcerated people for non violent shit, so these private prisons can make money. Given his previous more libertarian rhetoric i am disappointed in this and hopes he backs off that.

Unless he can branch out in to Trump Prisons of course.

[Osiris]

 

Also - there's Trump voters getting their shit kicked in and violent riots across the country.

 

Both are reprehensible, but the violent riots across the country seems to be a more serious and widespread problem with a lot of evidence to back up certain claims.

 

We can agree on that it is reprehensible for Trump voters to be subjected to violence just as it is for minorities.

 

- the impact he (or more precisely the republicans he has to work with) will have on LGBT rights;

- the impact of those same people on reproductive rights;

- the SCOTUS vacancy that he basically won't be able to fill without kowtowing to the most conservative republicans;

- his attitude towards the environment and climate change in general, and his intention to withdraw from the Paris agreement (that finally got China and India to the table and agreeing to do something about emissions and warming

- the rumours that he's going to appoint Ben Carson education secretary. Ben Carson. Education. YEC-ist, Ben Carson. I hope that one's untrue.

- his commitment to private, for-profit prisons and incarceration as a first response attitude

 

For balance, because I'm sure otherwise people will accuse me of bitching, here's what I'm hoping he'll do:

 

- clear out the self-serving career politicians that are just there to line their pockets (hello scott walker)

- not let Mike Pence and the rest try to 'cure' gay/transgender people - Trump has basically said he doesn't care about that stuff at times;

- Call out China's currency manipulation

- Crack down on big companies storing profits off-shore to avoid taxes on them

- Lowering corporation tax should help SMEs

- Introduce parental leave of some kind - it's just archaic that you guys don't already have it (along with statutory annual leave)

 

Agree with those concerns and hopes as well.

 

I'm also concerned that his focus on non-renewable energy will come to the detriment of building up the renewable energy industry.

[gftChris]

 

 

I'm also concerned that his focus on non-renewable energy will come to the detriment of building up the renewable energy industry.

In 50 years, maybe a little less, maybe a little more, we're going to start running out of things. At least, things will be so scarce and hard to extract that the price will make them unfeasible. Then we'll need renewables, and if that infrastructure isn't in place, well...big, serious trouble folks.

[Clevfan4life]

 

The libertarians are more pro-private prison than anybody...

U sure about that? I could swear i heard johnson railing against the prison industrial complex and how it funnels people through the system turning small time possession type people into full blown hoods. If not than my mistake but that sentiment is 100% valid.

 

A cj system that perpetuates crime for profit is something we can probably stand to get rid of no?

[gftChris]

U sure about that? I could swear i heard johnson railing against the prison industrial complex and how it funnels people through the system turning small time possession type people into full blown hoods. If not than my mistake but that sentiment is 100% valid.

 

A cj system that perpetuates crime for profit is something we can probably stand to get rid of no?

His stance on public vs private prisons is ambivalent at best (uninformed seems more likely) but the thing about funnelling through small possession offenders chimes more with his pro-drug position than any anti-prison sentiment.

[bbedward]

U sure about that? I could swear i heard johnson railing against the prison industrial complex and how it funnels people through the system turning small time possession type people into full blown hoods. If not than my mistake but that sentiment is 100% valid.

 

A cj system that perpetuates crime for profit is something we can probably stand to get rid of no?

 

http://govgaryjohnson.tumblr.com/post/139039414105/private-prisons

 

Pro private prison

 

anti war on drugs

[Clevfan4life]

Well blimey fuck gary then eh...

[Tour2ma]

The tone is surprisingly less hostile here and a bit more realistic than I find on Facebook but I'm curious:

 

If we have any hardcore Trump haters or Hillary lovers here I'm wondering Kama as I see people around the United States weeping and wailing, exactly what it is you fear from a trump presidency?

Not be silly talking points like he will push the red nuclear button and annihilate Saudi Arabia or something put something thoughtful?

What particular horrible things do you believe might actually come to pass?

 

One... you don't have to be a "Trump hater or HRC lover" to have concerns. Reasonable people, some who even voted for Trump, have apprehensions as do I. His overheated rhetoric during the campaign have given rise to most, but some are carry over from his documented history.

 

Most of these fears revolve around cal's constant theme, individual rights. They are simply not the same rights that give him concern. Gay rights... women's rights... a free press... voting rights... are all seen as under potential threat.

 

Sunday nite Trump allied some fears in his 60 Minutes interview, but when he has said so many contradictory things and espoused so many diametrically opposed positions, then trust becomes the major issue.

 

As for silly fears... Trump's temperament is still an unknown. While the odds of him nuking a country are low, the gravity of act make it's contemplation deserve more seriousness than being discarded as "silly". Especially when names like Mr. NeoCon, John Bolton are floated for key cabinet positions.

 

"victimization is just another word for 'I didn't get my way"'

 

Just a guess, but you do not have a single mirror in your house, do you?

[Tour2ma]

(how many of these hate crime examples have been fake? police departments have said "please report this if true" and it ended up not being true. Lots of it is just bird-dogging.)

 

So on 60 Minutes Trump was saying "Stop it!" for no reason?

 

 

Police reports? "Last nite while I was sleeping someone did (insert act) to my (insert thing)".

 

I did one of those once when I was in college when some kids(?) broke into tried to steal my car one night between 9 PM and 7 AM. Told the desk sergeant the story and asked to file a report. He chuckled as he handed me the form to fill out. I believe it's still an open case...

[calfoxwc]

 

We can agree on that it is reprehensible for Trump voters to be subjected to violence just as it is for minorities.

 

 

Agree with those concerns and hopes as well.

 

I'm also concerned that his focus on non-renewable energy will come to the detriment of building up the renewable energy industry.

Isn't that a lot like "give everybody a terrible disease so we can expedite some kind of cure?"

 

Hurts too many people in the process. Better to allow enterprising R&D to develop cures without the leverage

of a crisis. Solyndra - obaMao's fave - went kerplunk - there's all sorts of troubles with windmills,

 

Maybe like "well, we gonna kidnap a bunch of innocent folks, to expedite law enforcement's ability to rescue hostages..."

[Tour2ma]

Not anything like that at all actually...

 

And who does it hurt? Coal-miners? Their jobs were going away with the shift to more surface mining, e.g., mountain-topping, which is a whole new kind of environmental abomination... and that's before the lower BTU, sub-bituminous coal is burned.

 

Solyndra? A failure, yes, but not every business succeeds and their technology did not pan out... in no small part because their executives lied about its promise.

 

Elon Musk has bought a shuttered plant in Buffalo, NY where he intends to manufacture solar roofs... not panels, but roofs. Roofs with an expected life of 40 years. Built in America... installed by Americans... It's part of his vision of an electric car future... a future that he sees requiring a doubling of our generating capacity in the next 20 years.

 

The single biggest barrier to his success? Power industry lobbying of state regulators to prevent homeowners from financing their solar investment with sales of excess generation to "the grid".

 

Why not rail against that swamp?

 

But hey, if you'd rather keep shipping petro-dollars to the Saudis...

[calfoxwc]

Until maybe just recently, the exorbitant cost of solar tech was way too expensive.

 

Not cost effective, and that is an understatement. And selling back to the grid has caused

problems.

 

But it's very expensive. My brother-in-law bought an older outfit used... and bought

used towmotor batteries for a lot less, and they were still expensive.

 

http://reneweconomy.com.au/utilities-move-to-kick-rooftop-solar-off-the-grid-15250/

[Tour2ma]

Depends on your payback criteria, doesn't it? 10 years depending on location is very doable. It certainly is here in Texas; it is certainly longer in Ohio.

 

Corps use 2 years for projects; individuals' criterion vary. Most consider the doubling of an investment in 10 years to be a benchmark so for out of pocket installations a five-year would be needed (round numbers).

 

Batteries are an eventuality, not a requirement, unless you want to go off the grid completely... and some have, but the cost ballons. My Electric provider offers incentives for limiting use during peak hours... just the time solar generation is at peak production. Why the incentives? So they don't have to invest in incremental generation only to have it sit idle 16 or 20 hours a day.

 

As for "the grid"... My excess generation, if any, would be consumed by my non-solar neighbor(s). It's incursion into the grid would be like me dipping my big toe into a pool.

 

There's a lot to be settled around the credit for excess generation. IMO it would be at the average generating cost of the provider, not the rate I pay for that which I import which includes the cost of the grid. But to close out the solar alternative via lobbied regulation??? Well that's just unAmerican.

 

 

Aside: I doubt there are very many here who know WTF a "towmotor" is... term I hadn't heard in at least a couple decades.

[Clevfan4life]

 

Aside: I doubt there are very many here who know WTF a "towmotor" is... term I hadn't heard in at least a couple decades.

Anybody thats worked in any kind of industrial setting more than likely knows what a tow motor is. Im guessing more than a few people here

[One Post]

Anybody thats worked in any kind of industrial setting more than likely knows what a tow motor is. Im guessing more than a few people here

Lol!

[VaporTrail]

Above what Osiris has said about the hate crime - we saw exactly the same thing post-brexit and it was completely predictable to see it there too - I'm concerned about:

 

- the impact he (or more precisely the republicans he has to work with) will have on LGBT rights;

 

Republicans aren't going to touch gay marriage with a 10 foot pole unless they want to lose Congress faster than Obama did. Trump was on 60 minutes last week saying that the courts already decided that issue.

 

- the impact of those same people on reproductive rights;

 

This is probably my biggest concern with republicans, but I can't see them touching it. Roe v Wade was decided by a conservative court.

 

- his nationalism and isolationism is basically an 'I'm alright jack' approach to geopolitics, leaving the rest of the world to sort out the many, many problems and that without the US (and EU) as the western superpower(s) we will see more of Russia and China bullying eastern europe and SE Asia;

 

Your economies are strong enough to raise armies to defend yourselves from bullies. Stop relying on our military might to do your bidding. We get criticized for being the world police for the last 60 years, and now that we want to back off, you have an issue with that?

 

- the SCOTUS vacancy that he basically won't be able to fill without kowtowing to the most conservative republicans;

 

The first replacement is pretty much going to be the same thing as the seat that was vacated. I expect further appoinments to be more moderate.

 

- his attitude towards the environment and climate change in general, and his intention to withdraw from the Paris agreement (that finally got China and India to the table and agreeing to do something about emissions and warming

 

Meh. I still don't think the US can do much to stem the rate of climate change, and I'm very skeptical of China and India's ability to do more than us.

 

- the rumours that he's going to appoint Ben Carson education secretary. Ben Carson. Education. YEC-ist, Ben Carson. I hope that one's untrue.

 

False.

 

- his commitment to private, for-profit prisons and incarceration as a first response attitude

 

Meh.

 

For balance, because I'm sure otherwise people will accuse me of bitching, here's what I'm hoping he'll do:

 

- clear out the self-serving career politicians that are just there to line their pockets (hello scott walker)

- not let Mike Pence and the rest try to 'cure' gay/transgender people - Trump has basically said he doesn't care about that stuff at times;

- Call out China's currency manipulation

- Crack down on big companies storing profits off-shore to avoid taxes on them

- Lowering corporation tax should help SMEs

- Introduce parental leave of some kind - it's just archaic that you guys don't already have it (along with statutory annual leave)

 

 

I would also reiterate Osiris' point as one of the biggest concerns. It may well be that Trump was just using such rhetoric to gain votes (but it's ok, because he's not like other politicians...) but it's extremely irresponsible if so, and now real, innocent people are seeing the consequences.

 

What consequences? The majority of hate crimes I've seen since the election have been against trump supporters.

[Pumpkin Eater]

Fags have everything they need. Who gives a shit anymore? They don't need to be a priority and shouldn't be.

[One Post]

Fags have everything they need. Who gives a shit anymore? They don't need to be a priority and shouldn't be.

I agree. If they wanted to be equal and have equal rights such as marriage well then they have to stop having shit just because they're gay.

[calfoxwc]

Above what Osiris has said about the hate crime - we saw exactly the same thing post-brexit and it was completely predictable to see it there too - I'm concerned about:

 

- the impact he (or more precisely the republicans he has to work with) will have on LGBT rights;

 

The gay crown has no special rights, They have American rights. No special rights, like reverse discrimination, etc.

Everybody has the same rights.

 

Republicans aren't going to touch gay marriage with a 10 foot pole unless they want to lose Congress faster than Obama did. Trump was on 60 minutes last week saying that the courts already decided that issue.

 

I hopoe the Supreme Court eventually oveerrules that stupid decision, and negates the false gay "marriages", with the understanding

that in a year's time, they can be seamlessly converted to Civil Unions. The American people have a RIGHT to define a word, an institution.

 

And it isn't the same -- the legal provisions for "biological parents" do not apply, because it's impossible. Civil Unions was the answer,

but the left had to go and slap all conservatives and Christian in the face for a social engineering/political victory. Like obaMaocare was.

 

- the impact of those same people on reproductive rights;

Gays don't reproduce. You're in medicine, COME ON, MAN ! Unless you are referring to abortion - pba must be outlawed.

No excuse. Whatever else, the American people decide.

 

This is probably my biggest concern with republicans, but I can't see them touching it. Roe v Wade was decided by a conservative court.

 

It's a tough decison - all I know, is pba MUST be outlawed, etc.

 

- his nationalism and isolationism is basically an 'I'm alright jack' approach to geopolitics, leaving the rest of the world to sort out the many, many problems and that without the US (and EU) as the western superpower(s) we will see more of Russia and China bullying eastern europe and SE Asia;

 

Where does nationalism end, and love of country/Patriotism begin? The two words are used interchangeably, wrongly.

 

"Nationalism vs Patriotism

Nationalism and patriotism both show the relationship of an individual towards his or her nation. The two are often confused and frequently believed to mean the same thing. However, there is a vast difference between nationalism and patriotism.

Nationalism means to give more importance to unity by way of a cultural background, including language and heritage. Patriotism pertains to the love for a nation, with more emphasis on values and beliefs.

We are a melting pot - there is no one culture that is superior, etc. It's a patriotic

movement, not a nationalistic movement.

Your economies are strong enough to raise armies to defend yourselves from bullies. Stop relying on our military might to do your bidding. We get criticized for being the world police for the last 60 years, and now that we want to back off, you have an issue with that?

This is a tough one. Basically, hell no, we don't want to be the world's policeman,

but there are times when we have to make the world a safer place, or we get hit at home.

That's my criteria.

the SCOTUS vacancy that he basically won't be able to fill without kowtowing to the most conservative republicans;

Hell yeah. it's either Trump wins, and a conservative justice is there, or higgardly wins, and a leftist, activist, anti-Constitutionist is there.

We get to choose. Obamao got his two activist dipsticks on the Court, why can't Trump put a conservative justice on, that WILL GO

BY OUR CONSTITUTION. I mean, really. And why are my inserts double-spaced? dammit.

 

The first replacement is pretty much going to be the same thing as the seat that was vacated. I expect further appoinments to be more moderate.

"Moderate" baloney. Ginsburg has never been a moderate. Sotomeir sp? is no freaking moderate.

 

Baloney. Ginsburg has never been "moderate". Sotomeier sp? is obamao's LEFTIST dipstick activist liberal judge, and so is his

Kagan. But NOW we have to go "moderate" REALLY? We have to ge stark raving CONSERVATIVE CONSTITUTIONALIST to

protect our Constitution.

 

- his attitude towards the environment and climate change in general, and his intention to withdraw from the Paris agreement (that finally got China and India to the table and agreeing to do something about emissions and warming

 

Thank God he isn't a globalist-UN redistribution of wealth nitwit, cause that is what mmgw is about. China and India were

to be recipients of huge money from the Kyoto treaty and carbon trading. They were except from the treaty. re-dis-tri-bution- of wealth.

China, India and the rest, let them do what they want to do. Leave our $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ the hell out of it. Let them mind their

own damn business.

 

Meh. I still don't think the US can do much to stem the rate of climate change, and I'm very skeptical of China and India's ability to do more than us.

They have the ability, they just want mega bucks from the UN. They don't have the desire to fund it themselves.

 

- the rumours that he's going to appoint Ben Carson education secretary. Ben Carson. Education. YEC-ist, Ben Carson. I hope that one's untrue.

Ben Carson would be outstanding in that role. He knows a lot about it, and he isn't a commie. he won't play social activist games for the left.

 

False

 

- his commitment to private, for-profit prisons and incarceration as a first response attitude

I'm not buyin into that one. What, make prisoners pay rent and buy food?

 

Meh.

 

For balance, because I'm sure otherwise people will accuse me of bitching, here's what I'm hoping he'll do:

 

- clear out the self-serving career politicians that are just there to line their pockets (hello scott walker)

You mean "hello Pelosi, Obamao, reid, Schumer, etc etc etc?"

 

- not let Mike Pence and the rest try to 'cure' gay/transgender people - Trump has basically said he doesn't care about that stuff at times;

I hope they clamp down on legal harrassment lawsuits by gay activists who force a moral issue, then go to a liberal dishonest judge,

and win the lottery.

 

- Call out China's currency manipulation

- Crack down on big companies storing profits off-shore to avoid taxes on them

- Lowering corporation tax should help SMEs

- Introduce parental leave of some kind - it's just archaic that you guys don't already have it (along with statutory annual leave)

Trump is all over the first three, don't doubt he will be later. The last one - I don't know how that is suppose to work.

You have one employee on a farm, and right at harvest time, he is supposed to get leave? with pay?

 

 

I would also reiterate Osiris' point as one of the biggest concerns. It may well be that Trump was just using such rhetoric to gain votes (but it's ok, because he's not like other politicians...) but it's extremely irresponsible if so, and now real, innocent people are seeing the consequences.

 

What consequences? The majority of hate crimes I've seen since the election have been against trump supporters.

*********************************************

I've read where the surge in hate crimes is a falsehood.

 

There Is No Violent Hate-Crimewave in 'Trump's America' - Hit & Run ...

reason.com/blog/2016/11/11/election-night-hijab-attack-false

6 days ago - The first one to really go viral involved a Muslim female student at the ... apart from the wave of "hate crimes" and violent attacks that many are conjuring up right now. ... But I'm not the one trying to stoke false terror in vulnerable people or .... It's because my grandparents, against all odds, left a legacy of hard ...

Fake Anti-Muslim Hate Crimes and Other Lies - WikiIslam

https://wikiislam.net/.../Fake_Anti-Muslim_Hate_Crimes_and_Other_Lies

Fake Anti-Muslim Hate Crimes and Other Lies ..... evidence by a Washington advocacy group [CAIR] that hate crimes against Muslims were on the rise in Texas.

Hate Crimes Surge After Trump Victory - VOA News

www.voanews.com/a/hate-crimes-surge-after-donald.../3596298.html

3 days ago - "We've seen a dramatic upsurge in both hate crimes and then lesser hate incidents, ... Several reports have been proven false, and Potok cautioned that most ... attacks led to a sharp decline in hate crimes against Muslims.

[MLD Woody]

Calling something reverse discrimination is in itself kind of discrimination