So if horton doesnt work out....

[Clevfan4life]

Get fickell out of OSU? I like his defense. Moreso the kind of players he likes to get for his 4-3. Plus, and this is me homering full disclosure.....having him here could entice other osu players both current and past...to sign here or be amicable to getting drafted by us.

 

Im trying to think like who's out there now that is maybe on their rookie contract that might be cool signing here in a few years if we get fickell. I cant think of anybody offhand, can somebody help me out here??

[gftChris]

If we have a DC that's good enough to hang around 4 years, he won't be hanging around 4 years.

 

Also, you seriously need to let the Bosa stuff go. At this point you're just flogging a mess of broken bones and mush.

[tiamat63]

Fickell's schemes compared to what is run at the average NFL level alone is night and day difference.

[Browns1216]

let's not mess up what OSU has going on, we need at least some good football on weekends

 

If Horton doesn't work out, I wouldn't mind seeing Pettine brought in as DC. His defense wasn't terrible the first year, before O'Neil came in. Either that or promote one of the defensive coaches already on staff to keep some semblance of stability.

[Clevfan4life]

If we have a DC that's good enough to hang around 4 years, he won't be hanging around 4 years.

 

Also, you seriously need to let the Bosa stuff go. At this point you're just flogging a mess of broken bones and mush.

Bosa? Who's that again? Oh wait thats one of those excercise balls rigjt?

[Clevfan4life]

Fickell's schemes compared to what to is run at the average NFL level alone is night and day difference.

I like what he does with some of his ends though. I def see more firezoning from his DE's than any 4-3 ive personally seen run. And how the secondary plays off that. Nassibs already shown he cannoperate well in space, i dont think he's bit one time on the screens this year. He's recognized the rb getting out in the flat everytime they've tried it on him and thats when he's gotten the bat downs.

 

I think nassib would be great in a fickell defense

[wargograw]

Interesting point about former Bucks being willing to sign with us. That could help bring a lot more fans home. Other than that, don't really care. I'd rather not fire Horton.

[Clevfan4life]

Interesting point about former Bucks being willing to sign with us. That could help bring a lot more fans home. Other than that, don't really care. I'd rather not fire Horton.

Nor would I want to fire Horton. However, of the offense is doing alright next year and the defense is still losing games for us, than the next year that's it. If I don't see Nassib and og developed next year than the entire defensive staff might have to go cause they are then proven to not be developing these guys. Look everybody knows why og and nas didn't go first round, so they have a year to catch up. Seeing where some of these 1st rounders are is it unreasonable to expect og and nas to have 6 or so sacks next year?

[syd]

Interesting point about former Bucks being willing to sign with us. That could help bring a lot more fans home. Other than that, don't really care. I'd rather not fire Horton.

 

agreed,,lets see what he can do with some more play makers on his side of the ball cause god knows we have the picks to bolster the D

[gumby73]

If we gotta, Pettine or Lovie Smith as DC..And if Depo needs a football man in office, Tom Coughlin is literally dieing to get back in any source of football..10 minutes early can't hurt any good coffee fetcher

[Tour2ma]

With rumors of Jimbo Fisher jumping to LSU that opens up their DC to new employment... Dave Aranda.

 

He sure looks the part.

 

[Canton Dawg]

"IF" he doesn't work out??

 

We're 0-10 and giving up 30+ points a game.

 

NEWSFLASH...he's not working out, time get rid of him.

 

I still don't know how he got a DC job in Cleveland for the 2nd time, when he sucked on his first stint.

[wargograw]

With rumors of Jimbo Fisher jumping to LSU that opens up their DC to new employment... Dave Aranda.

 

He sure looks the part.

 

Their coach is already fired. What's Fisher got to do with anything?

 

Aranda is excellent. Runs a 3-4 too. But they'll probably keep him.

[The Gipper]

With rumors of Jimbo Fisher jumping to LSU that opens up their DC to new employment... Dave Aranda.

 

He sure looks the part.

 

Why would a guy move from FSU to LSU. FSU, at least since the 70s, has had the superior program...and their recruiting bases are equal if FSU is not better, and certainly FSU match LSU in money? No?

[LogicIsForSquares]

Why would a guy move from FSU to LSU. FSU, at least since the 70s, has had the superior program...and their recruiting bases are equal if FSU is not better, and certainly FSU match LSU in money? No?

Because the SEC is a step above the ACC and Fisher has a history with LSU.

[The Gipper]

Because the SEC is a step above the ACC and Fisher has a history with LSU.

The ACC has had a better record vs. the SEC head to head like the last 3 years. So that premise may be faulty. As for history....well, if that his "home" so be it. That is why OSU has Meyer.

[Tour2ma]

Their coach is already fired. What's Fisher got to do with anything?

 

Aranda is excellent. Runs a 3-4 too. But they'll probably keep him.

 

Because an interim HC is stuck with a staff and the long-term replacement tends to bring in his own people? Not every time, e.g. Urban keeping Fickel, but much more often than not.

 

Fisher is widely rumored to be on LSU's short list. It's been in all the papers...

 

Why would a guy move from FSU to LSU. FSU, at least since the 70s, has had the superior program...and their recruiting bases are equal if FSU is not better, and certainly FSU match LSU in money? No?

 

Besides just to confuse me? Logic mentioned 2 reasons...

 

Florida is more fertile recruiting territory, but LSU goes there... and also reaches into Texas. It's more a consideration of the stage/launching pad to the National Championship and the SEC has it over the ACC on that count.

 

The downside? BAMA... But Jimbo was at LSU as OC/QB Coach when Saban was HC there. So he knows Saban and likely would not only relish the chance to beat his old HC, but know how to do it.

 

LSU has spent years looking for a QB... ever since JaMarcus left. If they'd had one, then they'd have challenged for the title more than once during that period. Look what they did with Mettenberger. Les never got a blue chipper to come to LSU. Jimbo won't have that problem.

[The Gipper]

 

Because an interim HC is stuck with a staff and the long-term replacement tends to bring in his own people? Not every time, e.g. Urban keeping Fickel, but much more often than not.

 

Fisher is widely rumored to be on LSU's short list. It's been in all the papers...

 

 

Besides just to confuse me? Logic mentioned 2 reasons...

 

Florida is more fertile recruiting territory, but LSU goes there... and also reaches into Texas. It's more a consideration of the stage/launching pad to the National Championship and the SEC has it over the ACC on that count.

 

I am not so certain of that...and fyi, the CFP committee has repeatedly said that it does NOT look at conferences, it looks at schools.

If FSU were good enough to win the ACC...go undefeated or have one loss, they WILL get into the College Football Playoffs.

ACC Clemson had their chance last year.

And, in fact, it may even be easier in the ACC at this point. Why? BEcause of what you state here:

 

 

The downside? BAMA... But Jimbo was at LSU as OC/QB Coach when Saban was HC there. So he knows Saban and likely would not only relish the chance to beat his old HC, but know how to do it.

He needs to be in a conference he has a chance of winning. He may not have great chances going up vs. Bama in the same division.

In my mind....better to meet them in the national title game than to meet them in a regular season SECW game.

LSU has spent years looking for a QB... ever since JaMarcus left. If they'd had one, then they'd have challenged for the title more than once during that period. Look what they did with Mettenberger. Les never got a blue chipper to come to LSU. Jimbo won't have that problem.

Why not? What does he got that Miles or others ain't got?

[Clevfan4life]

Well, i for one would welcome fickell. Or anyone that runs a 4-3 really.

[Harry Buffalo]

Here is the thing, the Titans don't have a great defense, they don't have any real stars that come to mind, but he was doing a fine job there. He wasn't shocking the world, but he set up a solid NFL defense in the few years he worked as a DC there. With the Browns he got 1 year, and now with the Browns again, basically with an entirely new cast of players other than Haden, people are saying he should only have 1 year. From what I gathered he runs one of the most complicated defenses in the league and he has about 7 starters with 1 year or less of full time starting experience starting on that defense. I mean look at this.

 

0 Full seasons of starting experience:

Nassib DE

Ogbag DE/OLB

Meder DE (past rotational player)

Taylor CB (like 9 full starts before season)

Kirksey MLB (Two years of rotational experience)

Cambell SS (Rotaional/Special Teams Experience)

Howard FS

 

Those are starters on are defense. Some of them have shown good potential. Kirksey has been playing damn well, along with Shelton who only has one full season or starting experience. I'd love to see the defense do better, but I'm not surprised and I'd prefer to see what the defense looks like last year.

[gumby73]

Here is the thing, the Titans don't have a great defense, they don't have any real stars that come to mind, but he was doing a fine job there. He wasn't shocking the world, but he set up a solid NFL defense in the few years he worked as a DC there. With the Browns he got 1 year, and now with the Browns again, basically with an entirely new cast of players other than Haden, people are saying he should only have 1 year. From what I gathered he runs one of the most complicated defenses in the league and he has about 7 starters with 1 year or less of full time starting experience starting on that defense. I mean look at this.

 

I'd love to see the defense do better, but I'm not surprised and I'd prefer to see what the defense looks like last year.

one name in Tenn.-- DC now is Dick LeBeau..Took over Horton's same talent on D as Horton did Jim O'Neil's here. Horton now looks worse in both spots. M. Mularkey was a TE & coached with Wyche & Cower & understood a OL with Conklin only works for a guy like Murray. Who says you can't take your QB 1st than build around it..We need a GM with a true vision that can see building it right & not taking 2 DE's that don't fit a 3-4. Don't Draft a C? but than take 5 WR"s with DeValve that none of them can get open in 8 yard dink routes.. 0-10 Rant Over

[wargograw]

 

Because an interim HC is stuck with a staff and the long-term replacement tends to bring in his own people? Not every time, e.g. Urban keeping Fickel, but much more often than not.

 

Fisher is widely rumored to be on LSU's short list. It's been in all the papers...

 

 

Besides just to confuse me? Logic mentioned 2 reasons...

 

Florida is more fertile recruiting territory, but LSU goes there... and also reaches into Texas. It's more a consideration of the stage/launching pad to the National Championship and the SEC has it over the ACC on that count.

 

The downside? BAMA... But Jimbo was at LSU as OC/QB Coach when Saban was HC there. So he knows Saban and likely would not only relish the chance to beat his old HC, but know how to do it.

 

LSU has spent years looking for a QB... ever since JaMarcus left. If they'd had one, then they'd have challenged for the title more than once during that period. Look what they did with Mettenberger. Les never got a blue chipper to come to LSU. Jimbo won't have that problem.

I know, but that would be true whether they hired Fisher or anyone else. That's why I was confused.

 

Btw, Les got many blue chip QBs to come to LSU. He just couldn't develop them worth a dang.

 

I think if Jimbo is gonna leave, it'll be to Tuscaloosa after Saban leaves. He knows and follows Saban's system as well as anyone. They'll like the continuity.

[wargograw]

The ACC has had a better record vs. the SEC head to head like the last 3 years. So that premise may be faulty. As for history....well, if that his "home" so be it. That is why OSU has Meyer.

I thought I already disabused you of this false talking point? The ACC was better in 2014. That was the only time in many many years. Stop lying to yourself.

[Tour2ma]

I thought I already disabused you of this false talking point?

 

Can't be done..

 

 

Btw, Les got many blue chip QBs to come to LSU. He just couldn't develop them worth a dang.

 

I think if Jimbo is gonna leave, it'll be to Tuscaloosa after Saban leaves. He knows and follows Saban's system as well as anyone. They'll like the continuity.

 

Powder blue at best...

 

But ponder this... The best way to the BAMA job is being a thorn in Saban's and BAMA's side. Can't do that from FSU. Guaranteed the chance to do that from LSU.

[wargograw]

And the highly likely probability you never beat them and become an afterthought.

[gftChris]

And the highly likely probability you never beat them and become an afterthought.

So it comes down to if the coach is confident he can put out a team at least on par with alabama, given time and resources - and any coach worth having will back himself to do that. Probably incorrectly.

[Tour2ma]

So it comes down to if the coach is confident he can put out a team at least on par with alabama, given time and resources - and any coach worth having will back himself to do that. Probably incorrectly.

 

BAMA is a great program, but it is not invincible. #AnyGivenSaturday

[The Gipper]

I thought I already disabused you of this false talking point? The ACC was better in 2014. That was the only time in many many years. Stop lying to yourself.

I think, after the Bowl games the SEC did come out ahead in 2015. Here is what I found at one point through this season:

 

SEC vs. ACC

 

W L T Win % PFPG PAPG

2016 2 3 0 40.0 26.4 30.0

2015 6 4 0 60.0 27.0 26.5

2014 3 5 0 37.5 30.0 29.8

 

Some other games may have been played since the ACC had that 3-2 advantage.

[Flugel]

Get fickell out of OSU? I like his defense. Moreso the kind of players he likes to get for his 4-3. Plus, and this is me homering full disclosure.....having him here could entice other osu players both current and past...to sign here or be amicable to getting drafted by us.

 

Im trying to think like who's out there now that is maybe on their rookie contract that might be cool signing here in a few years if we get fickell. I cant think of anybody offhand, can somebody help me out here?

 

Man, I've been reading about replacing coaches since before the first preseason game this year, which wasn't too much different than what I was reading in 1999 unfortunately. If it DOES come to us NEEDING to hire a new DC or somebody who is ready to be promoted into one - the former Buckeye I'd prefer to Fickell is Mike Vrabel. He's building up a pretty good resume as a defensive coach after NE did a much better job tapping his skill set as a player than Pittsburgh. When he was also used as a TE, do you think he'd have the ability to consider putting Pryor back deep as a Safety on the last play of the half when an opponent like AJ Green is lining up at the 50 yard line for the inevitable jump ball from Dalton?

 

I absolutely agree that it's difficult to play gridiron chess when you are missing several key attack pieces that need to be on the table unless you know witch craft or you have a little David Copperfield in you or both. That being the case, I'm not calling for anyone's head before the 2nd year of a regime shows me no progress/regression with visible signs of veteran leaders not buying into the schemes/game plans. We hired who we hired for the Poseiden Adventure Sequel in Cleveland so they should get more than 1 draft to justify their existence. Even Chris Palmer got more than 1 year when he wasn't even the first choice of HC by our front office. When that ended in a 5-27 record, Butch Davis came in and we surged to 7-9 (despite 2 OT losses) and then went 9-7 before the bottom fell out. In 2001, we had our only Pro Bowl pass rush off the edge from Jamir Miller. BECAUSE it's Cleveland that would only mean his career would end with a blown out achilles in our very first pre-season game in 2002 following off season plans to build our defense around his talent. And, we're still looking for our next Pro Bowl pass rush off the edge some 15 years later. Has anyone seen my binoculars?

 

Having said that, as much as I had my rose colored glasses on for Hue - I couldn't help but question what made Ray Horton his most desirable candidate for DC here. Okay, when he had a talented roster in Arizona - he was a DC for a Superbowl team. He had that in common with Romeo Crennel as well as Steve Spagnuolo in terms of looking good as a DC when talent deemed it possible. Obviously Cleveland hasn't been this kind of gig especially since 1999. Bringing in a complex defensive scheme coming off the volume of injuries we had in 2015 to work in tandem with all the new faces and first time starters we were about to see in 2016 seemed strange.

 

The first time Horton was here he put wide bodied fellers like Rubin and Taylor out as 5 techniques while Charles Clay had his NFL coming out party catching passes in many a zone without a defender in the same area code. We constantly looked like we were defending a power play at the back end while many offenses had no trouble at all turning the corner on us. We had TJ Ward, a healthy Joe Haden, and enough talent to compete at the back end. However, I still remember the post game analysis from Tony Dungy and former Safety Rodney Harrison questioning why we had no Safety help over the top for Leon McFadden against NE as he was getting beat for the game winning score. As Mud likes to remind us, our pass rush had Sheard on 1 side helping Kruger get 11 sacks on the other side while Mingo's football sniffer kept finding limburger cheese instead of ball carriers and QBs.

 

I live in Nashville where Horton last gigged. During that span, TN earned the right to draft 2nd overall in 2015 and 1st overall in 2016 where the most common complaints from fans calling in to the radio were "horrible tackling" while the eye ball test could see "ghost towns" in coverage zones perpetuating defenders remaining out of position to make tackles. This year Dick LeBeau is the DC in TN; and their volume of sacks have increased considerably while they are enjoying fresher legs from the much improved time of possession from their offense and running game in particular. Another part of that is Orakpo and Morgan are healthier this year. The TN team with the worst record in 2015 is projecting somewhere between 7 and 9 wins in 2016. So what did they do with their 2016 draft? They traded back for more picks and selected Right Tackle Jack Conklin with their first pick. Then they had three 2nd round picks that are backups (Dodd, Johnson, Henry).

 

I'm not sure if this is a silver lining or a coping mechanism, but we've had some half time leads and close scores in the 3rd quarters of games telling me we're 1 big play, 1 bad call or a missed kick or 2 or 3 from winning. Right now, we give our QBs a zero margin of error. A lot of passing chemistry depends on trust a QB has from his WRs. Even our best WR (Pryor) is only a first year starter as a WR when it comes time to read/adjust to some complicated and disguised coverage schemes. IMO, it's a big reason McCown continues to look just as much like a rookie QB as our rookie QB. When you think about it, most of Pryor's biggest plays are on timing patterns where the QB delivers the ball to an area of the field off a specified 3 or 5 or 7 step drop. When we go with Kessler we lose some of that deep threat opportunity. Mud's done a good job of pointing out some of Kessler's limitations with vision and arm strength. Although I would certainly add current experience volume plus a concussion plus a chest injury promoting some of the nearsighted dink and don'ts.

[Tim Couch Pulls Out]

I think, after the Bowl games the SEC did come out ahead in 2015. Here is what I found at one point through this season:

 

SEC vs. ACC

 

W L T Win % PFPG PAPG

2016 2 3 0 40.0 26.4 30.0

2015 6 4 0 60.0 27.0 26.5

2014 3 5 0 37.5 30.0 29.8

 

Some other games may have been played since the ACC had that 3-2 advantage.

Only three times in the past 13 years has the ACC had a season in which they had more victories than defeats against the SEC.

 

The ACC is not better than the SEC.