Purge - 2017 - what'll happen?

[Mudfly]

Ok.....so this should be interesting.....our plan is to flood the team with young prospects and let em play.....and develop.....as a group. KNOWING that it can take a year or 3 for players to develop, we have committed to the process and now will watch as these kids play.....

 

Here is my quandry.....for next year.......in 2015 we 12 picks....in 2016 we had 14 picks.....and in 2017, we are projected to have another 14 picks.....(thats 38 rooks in 3 years).....plus, we have talent we'd like to keep....

 

NEXT year...we have 6 sure shot returning injured.....Dez Bryant, Bitonio, RGIII, Orchard, Poyer & Reiter......all should be back....

 

And we will add the 14 draft picks....(remembering that the FO committed to and kept all 14 this past year).....

 

So....the math says that means 20(on the current roster) gotta go......twenty......(at least)......

 

Because, Im hoping, we sign a FA or 2 also.......SO........WHO GETS CUT, without screwing up the ole 2-3 year development on the young guys?......do we cut the rest of our vets?.....lose another 16?....

 

Just curious on how people see this going.....

 

W/o knowing who we sign or draft.....here's a long shot stab at the 20 I could see going.....

 

First few are easy.....Callahan, Ikard, Holmes, Burley, Howard, Lemonier, Paea....thats 7...

 

Then, the cuts get slightly deeper....Alexander, Carder, Telfer, Payton, J Cooper, McCown, Bailey......thats 7 more....

 

And the next round, it gets tricky.....lets start with Erving(tho I think he'll stay), T. Williams, Cam Johnson....thats 3 more......(17)....

 

The last 3....just to get to the minimum of 20...means a coveted rookie or starter has to go(and some already have)......X. Cooper?, Boddy Calhoun, Rashard Higgins?. Seth DeValve? Ricardo Louis? George Atkinson?

 

So....what I see is that we will be forced to cut some players that were just brought in to develop and ......a few.....will never have gotten their shot.......and a few "prospects" will simply be replaced by new "prospects" before they ever got a chance to develop.........

 

If my list is close......Telfer, Payton, Cooper, Cooper 2, Calhoun, Higgins, DeValve, Louis, Atkinson would have to go......all 1st or 2nd year players with limited opportunities....

 

There are a 3 positions I didnt include in cuts.... FB - P - K.....simply because it's a trade off.....if we cut the kicker, then we sign one.....if we cut Vitale, then we draft a FB....etc etc.....so these 3 positions are a wash....

[nickers]

Ok.....so this should be interesting.....our plan is to flood the team with young prospects and let em play.....and develop.....as a group. KNOWING that it can take a year or 3 for players to develop, we have committed to the process and now will watch as these kids play.....

 

Here is my quandry.....for next year.......in 2015 we 12 picks....in 2016 we had 14 picks.....and in 2017, we are projected to have another 14 picks.....(thats 38 rooks in 3 years).....plus, we have talent we'd like to keep....

 

NEXT year...we have 6 sure shot returning injured.....Dez Bryant, Bitonio, RGIII, Orchard, Poyer & Reiter......all should be back....

 

And we will add the 14 draft picks....(remembering that the FO committed to and kept all 14 this past year).....

 

So....the math says that means 20(on the current roster) gotta go......twenty......(at least)......

 

Because, Im hoping, we sign a FA or 2 also.......SO........WHO GETS CUT, without screwing up the ole 2-3 year development on the young guys?......do we cut the rest of our vets?.....lose another 16?....

 

Just curious on how people see this going.....

 

W/o knowing who we sign or draft.....here's a long shot stab at the 20 I could see going.....

 

First few are easy.....Callahan, Ikard, Holmes, Burley, Howard, Lemonier, Paea....thats 7...

 

Then, the cuts get slightly deeper....Alexander, Carder, Telfer, Payton, J Cooper, McCown, Bailey......thats 7 more....

 

And the next round, it gets tricky.....lets start with Erving(tho I think he'll stay), T. Williams, Cam Johnson....thats 3 more......(17)....

 

The last 3....just to get to the minimum of 20...means a coveted rookie or starter has to go(and some already have)......X. Cooper?, Boddy Calhoun, Rashard Higgins?. Seth DeValve? Ricardo Louis? George Atkinson?

 

So....what I see is that we will be forced to cut some players that were just brought in to develop and ......a few.....will never have gotten their shot.......and a few "prospects" will simply be replaced by new "prospects" before they ever got a chance to develop.........

 

If my list is close......Telfer, Payton, Cooper, Cooper 2, Calhoun, Higgins, DeValve, Louis, Atkinson would have to go......all 1st or 2nd year players with limited opportunities....

 

There are a 3 positions I didnt include in cuts.... FB - P - K.....simply because it's a trade off.....if we cut the kicker, then we sign one.....if we cut Vitale, then we draft a FB....etc etc.....so these 3 positions are a wash....

Calhoun is outplaying everyone in the secondary.. id rethink that one...

[Mudfly]

I agree....he's making plays......and may be a keeper.....

[Tour2ma]

So....the math says that means 20(on the current roster) gotta go......twenty......(at least)......

 

Have to quibble with the "20". Players always end up on the PUP/IR list before camp breaks and some injuries are more mysterious than others...

 

The draft will end up pointing us to the cutable who. Personally I lose RG and keep McC's genuine presence in the locker room, but I understand the perspective that RG's audition is incomplete. And I cannot see Cam sticking... the staff gave him every opportunity and he is not this FO's mistake.

[Mudfly]

 

Have to quibble with the "20". Players always end up on the PUP/IR list before camp breaks and some injuries are more mysterious than others...

 

The draft will end up pointing us to the cutable who. Personally I lose RG and keep McC's genuine presence in the locker room, but I understand the perspective that RG's audition is incomplete. And I cannot see Cam sticking... the staff gave him every opportunity and he is not this FO's mistake.

Right.....and, of course, stash a few to PS too...

 

Im just bored......so pounding #'s.....thinking about next year.....etc......"sigh"....

[The Gipper]

Why do you come up with the number of 20. If they draft 13-14, and they want to keep them all, wouldn't that number be 13 or 14?

[Mudfly]

Why do you come up with the number of 20. If they draft 13-14, and they want to keep them all, wouldn't that number be 13 or 14?

its in the op.....I also listed 6 players returning from IR....14+6 = 20

[Orion]

I would assume that we've got a few guys heading to free agency in March who aren't going to let the door hit them in the ass.

[Alkid3]

 

Have to quibble with the "20". Players always end up on the PUP/IR list before camp breaks and some injuries are more mysterious than others...

 

The draft will end up pointing us to the cutable who. Personally I lose RG and keep McC's genuine presence in the locker room, but I understand the perspective that RG's audition is incomplete. And I cannot see Cam sticking... the staff gave him every opportunity and he is not this FO's mistake.

 

There is no reason to keep mccown anymore. Hes like 38 is just as injure prone as rg3. And is a turnover machine. Hes gone.

[mjp28]

Another good job Mud, a few other things to consider. ....and we BROWNS fans have the time to consider, games 12-17 left and a bye, some rookies hit the wall about now as compared to a NCAA schedule so it will be "interesting" if nothing else to see who finishes the season strong or at least more improved.

 

That can also be a little bit true of the older players too, McCown comes to mind for one, who wants to stick it out on a losing club and maybe even a winless club and who physically can do it.

 

Also what good FAs would even consider coming to Cleveland if they have other options....and we're not talking CAVS or the TRIBE here.

 

Also this team is desperate for a "Hail Mary" draft for some good or great fresh talent to restock the roster starters, bench or practice squad.

 

All of that might enter into who gets purged in 2017.

[Tour2ma]

There is no reason to keep mccown anymore. Hes like 38 is just as injure prone as rg3. And is a turnover machine. Hes gone.

 

Just saying McC is a better alternative than RG to be a mentor/role model for an otherwise young, QB room.

[stillmotion]

McC is more of like an offensive coordinator/mentor. RG3 can't even stay healthy enough to play in the league. What could he offer to teach young QBs?

[One Post]

Wait and see of course but I see the Browns using some of their picks moving up and around in the draft next go around. Nothing wrong with stockpiling but trading down all the time and waiting for a project player to come out of the Mix is a gamble next year. Before it was get more picks and have a better chance of landing talent and I think they will play their cards with a diffent hand this time.

 

I didn't think Wentz and Goff we're worth such high picks then and even now. So the Browns played it smart IMO.

[Clevfan4life]

Im going to be incandescent if they drop nas or og. Cause that meant u traded down from taking bosa and didnt give the two kids hardly anytime to develop.

 

Im starting to like bosas brother btw. He's still not as good as joey but he's developing a serious power game. He refines his edge rush and he'll be a top 5 pick too

[TexasAg1969]

Well the most obvious solution is to use multiple picks to move up and fill this team with a few first rate players.

 

Oh wait. This is the same whiz kids doing the draft again this year.

 

Won't happen.

[Tim Couch Pulls Out]

Well the most obvious solution is to use multiple picks to move up and fill this team with a few first rate players.

 

Oh wait. This is the same whiz kids doing the draft again this year.

 

Won't happen.

Don't be too sure of that.

 

These whiz kids have a year of their own scouting staff'/ reports, they have a firm grasp of what this team lacks and what this team possesses, and an idea of how to fill the voids.

 

Year one was building a foundation. Acquire as much capital as possible and lay a YOUNG base to work from.

 

Year two - don't be surprised to see a decent move or two. Maybe a larger FA acquisition for a young talented player, possibly a package deal to move up and take an extra late first round/ early second rounder.

 

We're not going to be bringing in Tony Romo or any other aging veteran, that's certain. But a productive player coming off his second contract who may command a bit of coin? Maybe. An underperforming talent coming off their rookie contract? Almost certainly.

 

As for the draft, we're not walking out it with 14 more players, I know that much.

[TexasAg1969]

You give them far more credit than they have deserved thus far Tim. But we shall see if they are fast learners, slow learners or uneducables.

[Clevfan4life]

TC, I'd like to hear where you think the Browns should address area's of deficiency (which is everywhere i get it). Like do we address pass rushers in FA or in the draft? Do we address teh O line in FA or the draft? I didn't look at offensive FA's but i did look at the edge guys. I dunno, Dion Jordan is gonna be FA...he's the one guy the Browns might be interested in. I don't know shit about Calais Campbell except that he's making 11m. JPP is coming out but unlikely the giants don't resign him I would assume. Same with D.Ware, doubt Denver will let him go but who knows..but he's also 34 making 10m so negatory on that. Just my feeling that FA's on the defensive side this coming year aren't really all that hot. I would take a shot at Ingram in a heartbeat but no way SD lets him go, him and Bosa are their prime edge guys.

 

So do we go after OL in FA and take a pass rusher in the draft?

[Browns149]

The reason they have committed to this process is job security. They have sold Jimmy on this system.

 

Once they draft a QB at the top of the draft, the process starts

 

If they keep saying, "there isn't a QB worth starting a team with" they can keep their jobs

 

If they would've taken Wentz last draft, they would be gone after next year.

 

Now they have a bunch of loser QBs and can say they don't have their guy yet

 

Once they take the QB of the future, and they still suck, they are gone

[D Bone]

Just as long as it happens

 

[stillmotion]

Don't be too sure of that.

 

These whiz kids have a year of their own scouting staff'/ reports, they have a firm grasp of what this team lacks and what this team possesses, and an idea of how to fill the voids.

 

Year one was building a foundation. Acquire as much capital as possible and lay a YOUNG base to work from.

 

Year two - don't be surprised to see a decent move or two. Maybe a larger FA acquisition for a young talented player, possibly a package deal to move up and take an extra late first round/ early second rounder.

 

We're not going to be bringing in Tony Romo or any other aging veteran, that's certain. But a productive player coming off his second contract who may command a bit of coin? Maybe. An underperforming talent coming off their rookie contract? Almost certainly.

 

As for the draft, we're not walking out it with 14 more players, I know that much.

What foundation have they built this year? We've had a few positives but i haven't seen any foundation.

[Alkid3]

McC is more of like an offensive coordinator/mentor. RG3 can't even stay healthy enough to play in the league. What could he offer to teach young QBs?

 

How can you even prove this? Because he rode the bench for most of his career? Why do you guys feel like we need someone to teach our young qbs? At this point it feels like a wasted roster spot.

[Tim Couch Pulls Out]

What foundation have they built this year? We've had a few positives but i haven't seen any foundation.

We have the youngest roster in the league and very few, if any, bloated veteran contracts eating up cap space (i.e. Kruger, Bess). Haden's contract may be our only minus contract.

 

We have enough draft capital to stay in place and add 4-5 starters and 4-5 backups, plus we're top ten in cap space in a year where there is some promising young talent hitting the market. The draft capital we have also allows us the freedom to move around in the first two rounds to ensure we get the guy(s) we want, as opposed to hoping for the best.

 

We have established two legitimate receiving threats in the WR corps, two legitimate threats on the offensive line, two legitimate threats in our linebacking corps, two solid enough runners, two solid enough defensive linemen and a solid enough tight end.

 

Those are all foundational pieces in rebooting a franchise. The number of wins on the board doesn't matter in the least right now.

[Tim Couch Pulls Out]

TC, I'd like to hear where you think the Browns should address area's of deficiency (which is everywhere i get it). Like do we address pass rushers in FA or in the draft? Do we address teh O line in FA or the draft? I didn't look at offensive FA's but i did look at the edge guys. I dunno, Dion Jordan is gonna be FA...he's the one guy the Browns might be interested in. I don't know shit about Calais Campbell except that he's making 11m. JPP is coming out but unlikely the giants don't resign him I would assume. Same with D.Ware, doubt Denver will let him go but who knows..but he's also 34 making 10m so negatory on that. Just my feeling that FA's on the defensive side this coming year aren't really all that hot. I would take a shot at Ingram in a heartbeat but no way SD lets him go, him and Bosa are their prime edge guys.

 

So do we go after OL in FA and take a pass rusher in the draft?

We go after whoever fits the profile, regardless of their position. There are only a few spaces on this team that I would flat out refuse to upgrade.

 

I'd say you could probably cross out anyone over the age of 28 in FA.

 

Guys like Trumaine Johnson, Prince Amukamara and Stephon Gilmore, and Eric Berry would all be very likely targets should they hit the market.

 

There's a pool of rookies who were selected in the first round that have had their fifth year options declined. Players like Luke Joeckel, Chance Warmack and DJ Hayden all represent what this FO is looking for - likely high yield ROI. Should these guys hit the market, their talent potential should far exceed their actual asking price. These were guys that should have been franchise building blocks but have yet to turn the corner, and it's unlikely they all are actual busts. I've already expressed my feelings toward Joeckel and Warmack, I think they would be stellar acquisitions. Hayden would be interesting.

 

I believe those are the contracts we're looking for. The biggest FA is probably Berry. A great acquisition who fits the profile, but it's unlikely we get a player of his caliber for a price point we're comfortable with. That means we'lol have to look at someone like Conte instead.

 

We'll have to overpay for everyone. It'll be the only way to bring guys in initially. But I'd rather overpay for a 26 year old former first round pick coming off his rookie contract than for a 30 year old veteran looking to get one more payday.

 

 

We can bolster CB, RG and RT via FA and address QB, EDGE, S and C via the draft.

 

I wouldn't be opposed to going into 2017 with the same LT, LG, WR corps, offensive backfield, interior DL and LB corps.

[Flugel]

How can you even prove this? Because he rode the bench for most of his career? Why do you guys feel like we need someone to teach our young qbs? At this point it feels like a wasted roster spot.

 

Hard to prove but Kubiak rode the bench. Pederson rode the bench. I think Wacky Wyche did too just off the top of my head.

 

It isn't just our young QBs that need to learn they need to get rid of the ball quicker and have some degree of pocket presence. In fact, when McCown is in there - he does have the opportunity to show the younger QBs he feels a T Suggs coming after Thomas has given him reasonable time off the edge.

 

On the defense side, both Marty Schottenheimer and Bill Cowher were backup LBers before they were DCs prior to being hired as Head Coaches.

[Flugel]

I agree....he's making plays......and may be a keeper.....

 

A kinder, gentler, less caffeinated Flugel agrees with you.

 

Great topic Mud! I'm gonna have to wait until after I've seen enough of some to give you better answers than I can today on who stays and who sprays. For example, an evaluation of Danny Shelton last year looks nothing this one with more experience under his belt.

 

Totally agree with playing guys on our way to 0-16 so they can be evaluated enough to see if they an progress at least somewhat.

[Mudfly]

I would assume that we've got a few guys heading to free agency in March who aren't going to let the door hit them in the ass.

Im not sure.....anythings possible. but I certainly dont see another exodus like we had last season....(no good ones left)

 

I see only 2 viable players that other teams would be trying to get away from us.....Collins and Pryor.....

 

The rest?.....not much there....

 

Now, in 2017, there will be a few more......Greco, Bitonio, Kirksey, Bryant and Davis head the list......

 

it'll be interesting to see if our FO finds a way to seal a few of these up before hand....Bito and Kirksey in particular...

[Flugel]

Im not sure.....anythings possible. but I certainly dont see another exodus like we had last season....(no good ones left)

 

I see only 2 viable players that other teams would be trying to get away from us.....Collins and Pryor.....

 

The rest?.....not much there....

 

Now, in 2017, there will be a few more......Greco, Bitonio, Kirksey, Bryant and Davis head the list......

 

it'll be interesting to see if our FO finds a way to seal a few of these up before hand....Bito and Kirksey in particular...

 

Precisely!

 

Losing Bitonio had a profound impact lending credence to the statement "absence makes the heart grow fonder." Bryant was our best 5 technique so losing him for all 16 weeks was big sting too. His age and his previous contract size could make re-signing him a challenge.

[Mudfly]

 

Precisely!

 

Losing Bitonio had a profound impact lending credence to the statement "absence makes the heart grow fonder." Bryant was our best 5 technique so losing him for all 16 weeks was big sting too. His age and his previous contract size could make re-signing him a challenge.

Right.....and with all our issues on the OL......losing Greco and Bito would not be a smart way to go......they should work tirelessly to sign both THIS off season, instead of waiting for the courting and bidding war to begin.......

[Tour2ma]

Well the most obvious solution is to use multiple picks to move up and fill this team with a few first rate players.

 

Won't happen.

 

Not a matter of won't... it's a matter of "can't". You simply cannot land "a few first rate players" in a single draft... it cannot be done.

 

The only thing your solution obviously is? Impractical...

 

You give them far more credit than they have deserved thus far Tim. But we shall see if they are fast learners, slow learners or uneducables.

 

Or you give them far less...