DieHardBrownsFan Posted November 28, 2016 Report Share Posted November 28, 2016 I wonder if that had anything to do with the fact that Castro was allowing the Soviet Union to place missile silos 90 miles from the United States? We also hated Hitler and Tojo but didn't seem to mind Stalin. Somebody mentioned the American Revolution but that was just a case of the 1% here deciding they shouldn't have to send tax money to King George. WSS I'm sure you and a few others on here remember the weekly air raid drills we had in the 60's preparing for a nuclear war with Russia via Cuba. Not to mention quite a few think Castro was behind the assassination of JFK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LogicIsForSquares Posted November 28, 2016 Report Share Posted November 28, 2016 Cruz ackn on tv yesterday that his own father got his shit pushed in by batistas men in prison. The reason the rev happened in the first place. It is possible that both Batista and Castro were scumbags. This isn't an either/or proposition where one is swell and the other sucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted November 28, 2016 Author Report Share Posted November 28, 2016 And now castro killed kennedy. U boobs beleive anything ur spoonfed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted November 28, 2016 Author Report Share Posted November 28, 2016 And now castro killed kennedy. U boobs beleive anything ur spoonfed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted November 28, 2016 Report Share Posted November 28, 2016 Gotta love the way this thread is rolling along Cleve. And the best part is you aren't even trying to be the devil's advocate. Next up: Cleve speaks! Reasons that Saddam Hussein Osama bin Laden Pol Pot and Pinochet were heroes persecuted by the evil US. W Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted November 28, 2016 Report Share Posted November 28, 2016 Cleve, what are you getting at here? That Fidel Castro - Fidel Castro! - was massively misunderstood, and was a peaceful soul just looking to do the best for his country, by imprisoning and impoverishing the masses and lining his own pocket while ruling with an iron fist inside an iron gauntlet? I'm sure those americans that are old wise enough to remember being affected by the missile crisis have an even worse view of him, because he was so anti-american in general, but even over here he was viewed as a ruthless dictator who the world would be better without. Maybe in the beginning he was truly a freedom fighter, looking to topple a corrupt government, but surely by the end he was himself the corrupt authority he was trying to depose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieHardBrownsFan Posted November 28, 2016 Report Share Posted November 28, 2016 Cleve, what are you getting at here? That Fidel Castro - Fidel Castro! - was massively misunderstood, and was a peaceful soul just looking to do the best for his country, by imprisoning and impoverishing the masses and lining his own pocket while ruling with an iron fist inside an iron gauntlet? I'm sure those americans that are old wise enough to remember being affected by the missile crisis have an even worse view of him, because he was so anti-american in general, but even over here he was viewed as a ruthless dictator who the world would be better without. Maybe in the beginning he was truly a freedom fighter, looking to topple a corrupt government, but surely by the end he was himself the corrupt authority he was trying to depose. I'm really glad you lined out old. I am 62 years 'young'. Old makes my blood boil...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted November 28, 2016 Author Report Share Posted November 28, 2016 Cleve, what are you getting at here? That Fidel Castro - Fidel Castro! - was massively misunderstood, and was a peaceful soul just looking to do the best for his country, by imprisoning and impoverishing the masses and lining his own pocket while ruling with an iron fist inside an iron gauntlet? I'm sure those americans that are old wise enough to remember being affected by the missile crisis have an even worse view of him, because he was so anti-american in general, but even over here he was viewed as a ruthless dictator who the world would be better without. Maybe in the beginning he was truly a freedom fighter, looking to topple a corrupt government, but surely by the end he was himself the corrupt authority he was trying to depose. Go back and read what i wrote. Im wasnt for or against him, but i understood him because apparently a few minutes out of ur all's day to research and understand what was happening all over south america during that time, is just too much to ask. Im going to reiterate my call that every single stipid white gringo in this forum, myself included......has zero comprehension about the cultural dynamics back then in south america. None of us has any standing to judge and moralize about any of those s american revolutionaries.......mainly because we were fed a dozzying amt of bullshit snd half truths about them. And thats the goal, obscure them enough and u can shape the natrative for decades Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted November 28, 2016 Author Report Share Posted November 28, 2016 I'm really glad you lined out old. I am 62 years 'young'. Old makes my blood boil...... Ur max 5 years from the hospice so dont get away with urself Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbedward Posted November 28, 2016 Report Share Posted November 28, 2016 Didn't Cuba throw a ton of protesters in prison right before Obama visited Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted November 28, 2016 Author Report Share Posted November 28, 2016 Didn't Cuba throw a ton of protesters in prison right before Obama visited It was 50. I guess if u weighed them all they probably come to about a few tons. In any case those people march every sunday after church, get arrested and are released a day or so later. Than they do it all over again thebfollowing sunday. Such a brutal regime. But here everytime like 5 black people get together and hold blm signs you chickens get to hopping on one leg "throw those niggeroos in jail how dare they, how dare!!!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted November 28, 2016 Author Report Share Posted November 28, 2016 You guys are so morally and ethically consistent☕️ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted November 28, 2016 Report Share Posted November 28, 2016 Go back and read what i wrote. Im wasnt for or against him, but i understood him because apparently a few minutes out of ur all's day to research and understand what was happening all over south america during that time, is just too much to ask. Im going to reiterate my call that every single stipid white gringo in this forum, myself included......has zero comprehension about the cultural dynamics back then in south america. None of us has any standing to judge and moralize about any of those s american revolutionaries.......mainly because we were fed a dozzying amt of bullshit snd half truths about them. And thats the goal, obscure them enough and u can shape the natrative for decades So what, it was culturally acceptable to be a brutal dictator? Like I said, maybe he was fighting the good fight at the start, but that clearly wasn't the case at the end. Just because maybe some other places were worse, doesn't mean he wasn't bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StinkHole Posted November 28, 2016 Report Share Posted November 28, 2016 You guys are so morally and ethically consistent☕️ Stuart You're so consistent at being a moron. Someone else explain to this simpleton the difference between Cuban protesters and the BLM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrownsKidd Posted November 28, 2016 Report Share Posted November 28, 2016 I think what Cleve is trying to some of you is that you can't rely on everything the MSM, even from 40-60 years ago tells you. The propaganda machine is strong in every government. Oliver Stone's documentary series called The Untold History of America is very interesting. From Wikipedia it states "It covers "the reasons behind the Cold War with the Soviet Union, U.S. President Harry Truman's decision to drop the atomic bomb on Japan, and changes in America's global role since the fall of Communism."[6] Stone is the director and narrator of all ten episodes. The series is a reexamination of some of the underreported and darkest parts of American modern history, using little-known documents and newly uncovered archival material. The series looks beyond official versions of events to the deeper causes and implications and explores how events from the past still have resonant themes for the present day. Stone said, "From the outset I've looked at this project as a legacy to my children and a way to understand the times I've lived through. I hope it can contribute to a more global insight into our American history."[7] I suggest you watch this series as it is on Netflix. I'm through the first three and find it very interesting. The point is, not everything is always as it is reported. Castro was an asshole, no doubt. But the narrative is usually different when wearing a different pair of shoes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted November 28, 2016 Author Report Share Posted November 28, 2016 Thank you, ffs someone finally gets it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted November 28, 2016 Author Report Share Posted November 28, 2016 My point was that if some of you had endured what people did then, you migjt become a cocksucking asshole too. Think if u were one of the people brutalized by isis.....think maybe years later you might be tempted to take revenge on some muslim and/or his entire family "just" because he's muslim but had nothing to do with radicsl extremism? If u had lived through the spanish invasion of south america and witnessed them smashing babies over rocks (troo story btw) you think you wouldnt be tempted at some point later to take some children from christian families and make em all watch as you fucked their kids up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbedward Posted November 28, 2016 Report Share Posted November 28, 2016 I think what Cleve is trying to some of you is that you can't rely on everything the MSM, even from 40-60 years ago tells you. The propaganda machine is strong in every government. Oliver Stone's documentary series called The Untold History of America is very interesting. From Wikipedia it states. True, but there's still nothing to admire about people like Castro or Che. Irony is that people believe the government fed propaganda to get people to support toppling Castro and red scare stuff blah blah and that Castro was really a brave revolutionary - then these same people are gobbling up the current MSM propaganda that Russia is controlling our elections and that Hillary is a great person and we should go to ww3 with Russia. Regardless the far-left idolizes Castro/Che despite the many truths that exist about what they've done. Like lining up dissidents in front of firing squads without trial or proof of guilt, sending gays to re-education camps. The far-left is crazy: - Trump is Hitler, he wants to round up all the gays and send them to re-education camps - Castro literally rounded up gays and sent them to re-education camps, what a hero. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LogicIsForSquares Posted November 28, 2016 Report Share Posted November 28, 2016 My point was that if some of you had endured what people did then, you migjt become a cocksucking asshole too. Think if u were one of the people brutalized by isis.....think maybe years later you might be tempted to take revenge on some muslim and/or his entire family "just" because he's muslim but had nothing to do with radicsl extremism? If u had lived through the spanish invasion of south america and witnessed them smashing babies over rocks (troo story btw) you think you wouldnt be tempted at some point later to take some children from christian families and make em all watch as you fucked their kids up? Overthrowing your oppressors is fine. Becoming the new oppressor is where Castro became a shit head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted November 28, 2016 Author Report Share Posted November 28, 2016 Overthrowing your oppressors is fine. Becoming the new oppressor is where Castro became a shit head. Yesss, i knnnoowwww......my point is though he was a product of unimaginable global pressures present at a hat time. He basically landed smack dab in the middle of the cold war. As ive stated now countless times, im not for or agsinst them....i just understand. Che, since ive read his personal "pre che" writings....when he was just some ngr ernesto......i have a different take on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldBrownsFan Posted November 28, 2016 Report Share Posted November 28, 2016 The former Batista regime may have been bad but it was better for the US with him in power. It was when Castro took power he invited the Soviets to bring in their nuclear missiles. Same way with the Shah of Iran, he was a bad guy but it was more beneficial for the US for him to rule than the Ayatollah's and their radical Islam agenda. Same way with Mubarak you quoted. It was better for him to be in power with his friendly relations with the US than the Muslim Brotherhood the Obama administration supported. It's pretty simple and logical for this country to do what is in it's best interest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted November 28, 2016 Author Report Share Posted November 28, 2016 but it was better for the US with him in power. t. Why is that the prime measuring stick? Shouldnt it be whats best for the cuban people? At the time, he was better than the puppet batistas who answered to the american mob. They didnt want to be the caribbean playground for american mobsters and businessmen. Is that so hard to wrap yr head around? And perhaps castro would not have invited the rooskies if we werent hopping mad and threatening invasion over the revolution. Ofc he sided with the rooskies, they were the only counter weight to the U.S. Had we said u wanna be commies fine, run urself under.....he would never have gotten the propping from the soviets that he did which was the only thing that kept him in power. But we know the u.s never had any tolerance for any country around the globe running their shit socialist. We interfered constantly in elections all overbthe globe, and at times committed troops to war even over it....like in vietnam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taco918 Posted November 28, 2016 Report Share Posted November 28, 2016 Why is that the prime measuring stick? Shouldnt it be whats best for the cuban people? At the time, he was better than the puppet batistas who answered to the american mob. They didnt want to be the caribbean playground for american mobsters and businessmen. Is that so hard to wrap yr head around? You answered you're own question there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted November 28, 2016 Author Report Share Posted November 28, 2016 You answered you're own question there.I know, but im trying to divorce people of this institutional myopia that some folk just cant let go. Ever. This world cannot be managed properly if everything has to be according to one superpower or another. It continually fascinates me how self proclaimed decent god fearing folk can give such egregious passes to some of the behavior this country has exhibited in the past. Miss me with ur cool stories about ur fake god when u cant acknowledge that forcing an entire country to be the pleasure hub for some of the worst humans ur society has to offer is a bullshit state of affairs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldBrownsFan Posted November 28, 2016 Report Share Posted November 28, 2016 I know, but im trying to divorce people of this institutional myopia that some folk just cant let go. Ever. This world cannot be managed properly if everything has to be according to one superpower or another. It continually fascinates me how self proclaimed decent god fearing folk can give such egregious passes to some of the behavior this country has exhibited in the past. Miss me with ur cool stories about ur fake god when u cant acknowledge that forcing an entire country to be the pleasure hub for some of the worst humans ur society has to offer is a bullshit state of affairs. What perfect country are you wanting to live in? Every country has their own skeletons in the closet but for a few hundred years this country has been a beacon of light and freedom to the rest of the world. There is a reason so many people have immigrated to the United States and run away from other countries. You really need to spend a few years in Cuba and then get back to us about how great of system they have in place. I see people fleeing Cuba to get here don't you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted November 28, 2016 Author Report Share Posted November 28, 2016 Again u strawmanning me. I never said cuba was a great place. But id also argue the u.s as ur so called "beacon of light" is a farce, but a well prepared deliberate narrative fousted on the world in order to bring in low wage low skilled workers who wont demand a significant amt of the pie. But that,as we can clearly see....is backfiring just as it has been predicted for decades. Those people should have stayed in their countries and built them up instead of trying to suck at the tete of unfettered caputlusm which was predicted to collapse under its own weight since the 50's. What people are discovering now is that the american dream as originally postulated to the world, is and was a steaming pile of nonsense propaganda. And just because we were for a time the best option means next to nothing to me. Just saysvthat everywhere else was worse. This society has been grossly mismanaged since before it was even officially the united states of america. And dont be naive there are many things the west, not just the U.S, has done to ensure that most everywhere else on the planet remained in constant turmoil and civil war for the very reason that everyone would clamor to get to the west. Well.....now we have societies within socities that see little need to integrate. Our system all along was a trojan horse timebomb. Well, we gotta live now in the bed we made What perfect country are you wanting to live in? Every country has their own skeletons in the closet but for a few hundred years this country has been a beacon of light and freedom to the rest of the world. There is a reason so many people have immigrated to the United States and run away from other countries. You really need to spend a few years in Cuba and then get back to us about how great of system they have in place. I see people fleeing Cuba to get here don't you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taco918 Posted November 28, 2016 Report Share Posted November 28, 2016 I know, but im trying to divorce people of this institutional myopia that some folk just cant let go. Ever. This world cannot be managed properly if everything has to be according to one superpower or another. It continually fascinates me how self proclaimed decent god fearing folk can give such egregious passes to some of the behavior this country has exhibited in the past. Miss me with ur cool stories about ur fake god when u cant acknowledge that forcing an entire country to be the pleasure hub for some of the worst humans ur society has to offer is a bullshit state of affairs. I'm just going to go point by point here. Superpowers dictating to others isn't an ideal system, but it's the best system we have. Look throughout history and when everyone is even, a lot of people die. Nations, and people in general, will always strive for more power and will go to great lengths to obtain it, as well as keep it. Yup, we've done some shitty things throughout our history. We've also done some great things. If you were to measure our atrocities and achievements against every other comparable country within the same timeframe, we start looking a lot better. Hell, go further back and we still stack up better than any other superpower in human history. You can focus on the negative all you want but until you have a point of reference, it's pretty pointless. As for your "bullshit state of affairs", look what happened after. An oppressive regime which enriched themselves off the suffering of their people. Was the "bullshit state of affairs" ideal for Cubans? No, but it also would've provided them with a better path forward than what Castro provided. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldBrownsFan Posted November 28, 2016 Report Share Posted November 28, 2016 Again u strawmanning me. I never said cuba was a great place. But id also argue the u.s as ur so called "beacon of light" is a farce, but a well prepared deliberate narrative fousted on the world in order to bring in low wage low skilled workers who wont demand a significant amt of the pie. But that,as we can clearly see....is backfiring just as it has been predicted for decades. Those people should have stayed in their countries and built them up instead of trying to suck at the tete of unfettered caputlusm which was predicted to collapse under its own weight since the 50's. What people are discovering now is that the american dream as originally postulated to the world, is and was a steaming pile of nonsense propaganda. And just because we were for a time the best option means next to nothing to me. Just saysvthat everywhere else was worse. This society has been grossly mismanaged since before it was even officially the united states of america. And dont be naive there are many things the west, not just the U.S, has done to ensure that most everywhere else on the planet remained in constant turmoil and civil war for the very reason that everyone would clamor to get to the west. Well.....now we have societies within socities that see little need to integrate. Our system all along was a trojan horse timebomb. Well, we gotta live now in the bed we made The founders of this country were brilliant people. Not perfect. They set up a genius government with checks and balances to prevent concentration of power. They wrote an amazing constitution. The great experiment has worked amazingly well for hundreds of years. People are still standing in line to immigrate here and many from the southern border are crossing over illegally. They must believe they are coming to a better place. Quit blaming the US for all the ills of the world . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted November 28, 2016 Author Report Share Posted November 28, 2016 Quit blaming the US for all the ills of the world . It was someone else before the U.S and i have zero doubt it will be a new set of self righteous pious ngrs after wr're gone. Ive "always" intrinsically understood that. Also, our founding fathers were part of the biggest slavers in the known world at the time so im gonna take a pass on the word "brilliant" when they missed something that basic. And still mething that was known to be evil for millenia so no more apologies starting with "well, at the time....." Moses fucking knew slavery was bullshit so miss me about our founding fathers, they were as corrupt as anybody. They came from the same cut as the europeans, spanish in particular, that toured south america looking for little girls to sell back home Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted November 28, 2016 Author Report Share Posted November 28, 2016 No, but it also would've provided them with a better path forward than what Castro provided. Maybe maybe not. Had the u.s not immediately embargoed them would things have been different? Very likely yes, how much i dont know. But the misery of the cuban people had more to do with being economically isolated Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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