OldBrownsFan Posted November 30, 2016 Report Share Posted November 30, 2016 "On Thursday, Mr. Trump and Mike Pence, Indiana’s governor and the vice-president elect, plan to appear at Carrier’s Indianapolis plant to announce they’ve struck a deal with the company to keep roughly half of the jobs in the state, according to officials with the transition team as well as Carrier." http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/29/business/trump-to-announce-carrier-plant-will-keep-jobs-in-us.html?_r=0 Good job Trump. Off to a good start before even starting.. Mark Levin 24 mins · Go figure, if you CUT TAXES and CUT REGULATIONS companies will stay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LogicIsForSquares Posted November 30, 2016 Report Share Posted November 30, 2016 Read more about the deal. Didn't involve tariffs but actual tax incentives. That will send a really positive message going forward to U.S. businesses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldBrownsFan Posted November 30, 2016 Author Report Share Posted November 30, 2016 Read more about the deal. Didn't involve tariffs but actual tax incentives. That will send a really positive message going forward to U.S. businesses. No I saw that. Cutting taxes and regulations which is a better way than imposing tariffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted November 30, 2016 Report Share Posted November 30, 2016 tariffs will surely come into play at other times later... up front, its the right move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldBrownsFan Posted November 30, 2016 Author Report Share Posted November 30, 2016 tariffs will surely come into play at other times later... up front, its the right move. If we can keep from tariffs we will be better off. Other countries will slap on their own tariffs and you will likely have a trade war going. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted November 30, 2016 Report Share Posted November 30, 2016 True - but without a tariff, other companies who use "slave labor"... decent nations with decent economies can't compete. It's called product dumping. China deserves tariffs on some items. Let them tariff back. They desperately need the goods they buy from us, which is a lot of stuff. We don't need anything from them, except their cheap stuff is in gigantic amounts flooding our country. I could be wrong, but every time I go to a store to buy something, it's often made in China. I hate that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbedward Posted November 30, 2016 Report Share Posted November 30, 2016 There should be more tax incentives for employing Americans. Nothing wrong with that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LogicIsForSquares Posted November 30, 2016 Report Share Posted November 30, 2016 True - but without a tariff, other companies who use "slave labor"... decent nations with decent economies can't compete. It's called product dumping. China deserves tariffs on some items. Let them tariff back. They desperately need the goods they buy from us, which is a lot of stuff. We don't need anything from them, except their cheap stuff is in gigantic amounts flooding our country. I could be wrong, but every time I go to a store to buy something, it's often made in China. I hate that. I think if you create enough incentives (favorable taxes and regulations), you can package that with good infrastructure and a surplus of college educated labor to make the U.S. a good spot to do business. I hope we can avoid tariffs. It becomes a trade war and destabilizes prices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LogicIsForSquares Posted November 30, 2016 Report Share Posted November 30, 2016 We heard rumblings at work about how Trump was trying to strike a deal to extend health care benefits to out of work miners who run out of them on Jan 1st. I thought it was bullshit but this Carrier deal makes me think there may be some legs to the story at work. Trump would have to be giving some concessions on gas and oil to make it possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taco918 Posted November 30, 2016 Report Share Posted November 30, 2016 True - but without a tariff, other companies who use "slave labor"... decent nations with decent economies can't compete. It's called product dumping. China deserves tariffs on some items. Let them tariff back. They desperately need the goods they buy from us, which is a lot of stuff. We don't need anything from them, except their cheap stuff is in gigantic amounts flooding our country. I could be wrong, but every time I go to a store to buy something, it's often made in China. I hate that. Aww that's adorable Cal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taco918 Posted November 30, 2016 Report Share Posted November 30, 2016 I think if you create enough incentives (favorable taxes and regulations), you can package that with good infrastructure and a surplus of college educated labor to make the U.S. a good spot to do business. I hope we can avoid tariffs. It becomes a trade war and destabilizes prices. A few issues here. The incentives, which will have to be rebates for the companies in order to keep prices down, will be sky high, adding to the debt. The other small issue here is college educated workers didn't go to college to work in an assembly line in a factory. If anything they went to college to ensure that they didn't have to do that. I won't get into the infrastructure or the good spot comment but you are dead right on your last paragraph. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LogicIsForSquares Posted November 30, 2016 Report Share Posted November 30, 2016 Unfortunately, we do have a surplus of kids with degrees who are now working jobs that should be filled by teenage kids and other unskilled/lower educated labor. I bet they would take comparatively better paying factory work over say being a barista forever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taco918 Posted November 30, 2016 Report Share Posted November 30, 2016 Unfortunately, we do have a surplus of kids with degrees who are now working jobs that should be filled by teenage kuds and other unskilled labor. I bet they would take comparatively better paying factory work over say being a barista forever. That is very true. We do have a surplus of over skilled workers. They only issue is factory jobs, in order to remain competitive in unit prices, aren't going to be paying that much more. The only way those salaries will be able to stay decently high is going to be through numerous rebates and subsidies. If you enjoy agricultural subsidiaries, you'll love what's going to be needed for manufacturing. Then you have the whole longevity issue to worry about.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LogicIsForSquares Posted November 30, 2016 Report Share Posted November 30, 2016 That is very true. We do have a surplus of over skilled workers. They only issue is factory jobs, in order to remain competitive in unit prices, aren't going to be paying that much more. The only way those salaries will be able to stay decently high is going to be through numerous rebates and subsidies. If you enjoy agricultural subsidiaries, you'll love what's going to be needed for manufacturing. Then you have the whole longevity issue to worry about.... I know manufacturing came up but that wasn't exactly where I was headed. More just job creation in general. I see automation continuing on its course of pushing human hands out of the manufacturing process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Cysko Kid Posted November 30, 2016 Report Share Posted November 30, 2016 A few issues here. The incentives, which will have to be rebates for the companies in order to keep prices down, will be sky high, adding to the debt. The other small issue here is college educated workers didn't go to college to work in an assembly line in a factory. If anything they went to college to ensure that they didn't have to do that. I won't get into the infrastructure or the good spot comment but you are dead right on your last paragraph. well that would be super for them if all the jobs they hoped existed actually did exist. Myself I hope everybody climbs down off of their high-falutin' horses and realizes blue collar is acceptable. Dirty old low class assembly workers at Ford make, or at least historically have made, a comparable or better living then a lot of jobs that require 4 year degrees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taco918 Posted November 30, 2016 Report Share Posted November 30, 2016 I know manufacturing came up but that wasn't exactly where I was headed. More just job creation in general. I see automation continuing on its course of pushing human hands out of the manufacturing process. Again, I agree. My issue isn't with job creation, it's that the job creation is viable long term. I'm all for upgrading our infrastructure. While the jobs created might be short term, the benefit to society as a whole will be relatively long lasting. Manufacturing on the other hand will be short term, will only benefit the companies, and merely speed up the process of moving factories back stateside in order to cut transit cost that was already occurring, albeit slowly. I'm not trying to pick on you here, it just bugs me that others don't see the band-aid that this is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taco918 Posted November 30, 2016 Report Share Posted November 30, 2016 well that would be super for them if all the jobs they hoped existed actually did exist. Myself I hope everybody climbs down off of their high-falutin' horses and realizes blue collar is acceptable. Dirty old low class assembly workers at Ford make, or at least historically have made, a comparable or better living then a lot of jobs that require 4 year degrees. Yeah, welcome to America man. It's been this way for awhile. I wonder how all those illegal immigrants keep getting work? Taking the jobs Americans won't do. Those bastards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted November 30, 2016 Report Share Posted November 30, 2016 there's no amount of tax incentives that will keep some of these companies here. If the worlds labor market changes sharply that could change. Heck, when companies start hiring more robots than human workers...i'll bet they'll come right back. In the end we all still lose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted November 30, 2016 Report Share Posted November 30, 2016 Yeah we only have nearly the highest corp tax in the world... baloney - the high tax is the killer otherwise, building/buying a plant overseas, etc etc is a very costly venture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taco918 Posted November 30, 2016 Report Share Posted November 30, 2016 Yeah we only have nearly the highest corp tax in the world... baloney - the high tax is the killer otherwise, building/buying a plant overseas, etc etc is a very costly venture. Aww poor, sweet Cal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted November 30, 2016 Report Share Posted November 30, 2016 sorry, but your generalizations hit a sour note. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted November 30, 2016 Report Share Posted November 30, 2016 Corporation tax here is half what it is there and we have the same problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldBrownsFan Posted December 1, 2016 Author Report Share Posted December 1, 2016 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted December 1, 2016 Report Share Posted December 1, 2016 1100 jobs saved, plant will stay, they get 7 million in tax reduction over...ten years? and Carrier will spend 16 million to refurb the Indiana plant. Trump becoming pres and declaring that over-regulation is going to be killed.... helped hugely. The reaction of Carrier workers was impressive. God Bless em, ... the plant in Mexico was well on it's way to being finished? And they will not move to it. obaMao was a worthless hard core liberal whining loser - solved no problem, just created them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbedward Posted December 1, 2016 Report Share Posted December 1, 2016 I liked when Pence said "he just picked up the phone" And Trump being Trump - no teleprompter and giving some bantz to the United Technologies CEO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted December 2, 2016 Report Share Posted December 2, 2016 the promise of Trump to negate this kind of expensive giant gov overreach is going to attract the keen interest of a lot of companies... http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/new-epa-rules-push-regulatory-costs-past-1-trillion-3080-per-person/article/2608593 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldBrownsFan Posted December 2, 2016 Author Report Share Posted December 2, 2016 I liked when Pence said "he just picked up the phone" And Trump being Trump - no teleprompter and giving some bantz to the United Technologies CEO. Obama: "What magic wand will that guy whom I won't mention his name wave and bring the jobs back to Carrier?" Trump: "It's called a phone" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrownsKidd Posted December 2, 2016 Report Share Posted December 2, 2016 Okay, keeping jobs good. But are we really happy with the government getting this involved? Reading this morning on a Yahoo article it talked that the tax incentives are coming at the hands of the Indiana taxpayers themselves, so you have to rob Peter to pay Paul in this deal. What type of president is being set here? Trump also said that he would tax companies for leaving, not give them tax breaks. Just saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted December 2, 2016 Report Share Posted December 2, 2016 A really bad president. And precedent. But yeah, "we'll make them keep jobs in Indiana by putting big taxes on them importing things" has turned in to "we're going to lower their taxes so they want to stay" which is what basically every other company will - or at least should - threaten to do. Side note: these are apparently state taxes being lowered as their incentive. State taxes. In Indiana. Of which Mike Pence is governer. So this could have happened at any time. What's Mike Pence been doing? He could have done this any time in the last three years or so, but only now is he doing so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted December 2, 2016 Report Share Posted December 2, 2016 Another question for the republicans on here who are hailing this as a masterful victory - how does this sit with the free market philosophy of no government interference in business? Picking winners, as Mitt Romney Reek called it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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