Canton Mike Posted February 9, 2017 Report Share Posted February 9, 2017 I just thought it was interesting. Especially when considering some of the stuff I read from people on here. I havent been reading that long, couple years maybe, but it is certainly interesting to read the opinions of people on here. Just take one of the most talked about points recently, Jimmy Garappolo. What I have read most people do not want him, with people saying things like look at the history of other QB's from New England or if New England wants to trade him then there must be a reason. I am sorry if you dont agree, and everyone has a right to their opinion, and doesn't make me right, but JG is NOT Matt Cassell or others. Just because some others haven't worked out doesn't mean he wouldn't. And NE has a history of not paying a lot of people and getting rid of people before they have to pay them. I can certainly remember when there was a Camp Jimmy G on here, and now that he has spent a couple years in the best organization in the NFL he has gotten worse? So because others have seemed to be system QB then he must be too? Maybe NE does feel like Brady will be around for a few more years and don't want to let JG walk next year for nothing, or they don't want that huge franchise tag to pay him, or maybe they also like what they see in Brissett? I don't know, and I am not saying the Browns should trade for him, and certainly not saying giving up a 1st round pick for him, but just because someone else didn't work out doesn't mean someone else wouldn't. And then there is the love for the college QB's, especially Trubisky. There is just as much a chance that he is worse than Jimmy G than not. The young man hasn't played a down in the NFL, and we have seen Jimmy G play and play well, so exactly what makes him more valuable? Because he is a college QB? Because he is bigger? Because he is the highest rated QB? Because he is from Ohio? Since I like this research, and now the entire NFL, since 2000, these are the 1st round QB's: 2000: Chad Pennington- best QB from year: 6th Round Tom Brady 2001: Michael Vick- best QB from year: 2nd Round Drew Brees 2002: David Carr, Joey Harrington, and Patrick Ramsey- best QB from draft: probably 3rd round Josh McCown 2003: Carson Palmer, Byron Leftwich, Kyle Boller, Rex Grossman- best QB from draft: Carson Palmer 2004: Eli Manning, Phillip Rivers, Ben Roethlisberger, JP Losman- best QB from draft: the top 3 have all been very good 2005: Alex Smith, Aaron Rodgers, Jason Campbell- best QB from draft: Aaron Rodgers 2006: Vince Young, Matt Leinhart, Jay Cutler- best QB from draft: Jay Cutler but doesn't say much 2007: Jamarcus Russell, Brady Quinn- best QB from draft: Nobody really 2008: Matt Ryan and Joe Flacco- best QB from draft: Matt Ryan 2009: Matt Stafford, Mark Sanchez, Josh Freeman- best QB from draft- Matt Stafford 2010: Sam Bradford, Tim Tebow- best QB from draft- Sam Bradford but doesn't say much 2011: Cam Newton, Jake Locker, Blaine Gabbert, Christian Ponder- best QB from draft: 2nd round Andy Dalton 2012: Andrew Luck, RG3, Ryan Tannehill, Brandon Weeden- best QB from draft: I would say 3rd round Russell Wilson 2013: EJ Manuel- best QB from draft: Nobody really 2014: Blake Bortles, Johnny Manziel, Teddy Twatwater- best QB from draft: Derek Carr 2015: Jameis Winston and Marcus Mariota- best QB from draft: both have been pretty good 2016: Jared Goff, Carson Wentz, and Paxton Lynch- best QB from draft: 4th round Dak Prescott So that is 17 years. Best QB from draft has been a 1st rounder 8 of the 17 years, with 6 of the 17 being good QB's. 45 QB's taken in 1st round since 2000. If I were the Browns, there are at best 15 I would have liked as my starter in that time, so 33%. There are 8 drafted after 1st round that would be good to have. I am not saying shouldn't draft one, not in the slightest. I don't see bad in either Mitch or at time Watson, but what makes people think so highly of a draft pick over someone in the NFL already? Or better yet, since the topic has been Jimmy G, how many teams in the NFL would he be the starter for? At least 12. Here are the teams I think have a better option than him. New England, Baltimore, Cinncinati (50/50), Pittsburgh, Indy, Tennessee, Kansas City, Oakland, San Diego, Dallas, New York, Washington (50/50), Detroit, Green Bay, Atlanta, Carolina, New Orleans Tampa Bay, Arizona, Seattle. I hope whatever the Browns decide, its the right thing, whether it is someone on another roster, someone on the Browns roster, or a college player As for what I think the Browns should do? Whatever makes them better. I am not really in a "camp" because there are so many other variables to it then just a single player. I guess that may be the difference, and I guess it can be good and bad, but I look at any team I am watching in a coaches mindset and not a fans like most do. But I think I would go defense Well stated. I was, and remain, a JG fan & prefer to obtain his services. That being said & being a Browns' fan, I will support whatever decision is made. As far as your question I have bolded, I think, in our society, a lot of folks are in love with the "unknown" as the possibilities for excellence seem limitless hence the desire for a draftee. We'l see what happens. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted February 9, 2017 Report Share Posted February 9, 2017 As far as your question I have bolded, I think, in our society, a lot of folks are in love with the "unknown" as the possibilities for excellence seem limitless hence the desire for a draftee. We'l see what happens. Prospects' promise plus price tag and the hope of solidifying the position for a decade and change... Kaep is 29+... TT 27.5... JG 25.3... \Mitch would turn 23 late in camp. Kizer just turned 22. Watson will turn 22 the day before I do in Sept... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted February 9, 2017 Report Share Posted February 9, 2017 2011: Cam Newton, Jake Locker, Blaine Gabbert, Christian Ponder- best QB from draft: 2nd round Andy Dalton Do you really think that Andy Dalton has been a better QB than Cam Newton? Kinda blows your whole credibility with that statement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul warfield Posted February 9, 2017 Report Share Posted February 9, 2017 Nah... stay... If you've read much here, then you have to know that hindsight is something we've grown weary of. Try a fresher topic... preferably a forward looking one. Tis the season for FAs and the draft. Spend your time there. No guarantees that your take(s) will be embraced, but that's part of the fun. Are you on board with Garrett at #1 overall or have another prospect in mind? Post of the Day Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunz41 Posted February 9, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 9, 2017 2011: Cam Newton, Jake Locker, Blaine Gabbert, Christian Ponder- best QB from draft: 2nd round Andy Dalton Do you really think that Andy Dalton has been a better QB than Cam Newton? Kinda blows your whole credibility with that statement. Oops, they must have crossed my eyes in the writing. No I think Cam is way better than Dalton. I can admit when I am wrong, even though the wrong was just a mistake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted February 9, 2017 Report Share Posted February 9, 2017 Oops, they must have crossed my eyes in the writing. No I think Cam is way better than Dalton. I can admit when I am wrong, even though the wrong was just a mistake. Yea, I figured it was just a mistake or oversight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunz41 Posted February 9, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 9, 2017 Prospects' promise plus price tag and the hope of solidifying the position for a decade and change... Kaep is 29+... TT 27.5... JG 25.3... \Mitch would turn 23 late in camp. Kizer just turned 22. Watson will turn 22 the day before I do in Sept... Last year, Jared Goff almost 28 million and 18.5 million guaranteed, Carson Wentz almost 27 million and 17.5 guaranteed, and Paxton Lynch 9.5 million and 5 million guaranteed. Jimmy Garoppolo in 2017- $820,077 salary and $75,000 workout bonus. He would be cheaper this year, but then more expensive. But like I said I don't mind these college QB's, its just something I don't understand with the league. Like I said I look at things coach wise, and of course that in kids and amateurs and I will admit I am much more into college than pros. My dad is a Browns fan, so thats why I am. There are probably 3 in the state of Virginia. But anyway, I don't get teams, not just one, or fans want of a draft pick over someone you have seen. There are examples all over the league of "x player' who was pretty good being traded for this draft pick. But there are also examples of teams giving up too much compensation for a proven player i.e. Sam Bradford. With all that said, I am in Camp hit on a lot of picks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunz41 Posted February 9, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 9, 2017 Yea, I figured it was just a mistake or oversight. In fact, Cincy was one of places I think would be 50/50 with a Jimmy replacement. There is only 1 place in NFL that you could say is in better position than New England at QB with back up and that is Dallas. But Brady tips the scale in New England favor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted February 9, 2017 Report Share Posted February 9, 2017 In fact, Cincy was one of places I think would be 50/50 with a Jimmy replacement. There is only 1 place in NFL that you could say is in better position than New England at QB with back up and that is Dallas. But Brady tips the scale in New England favor Yea, no. Honestly, I do not see Romo by any means as the best "backup QB" in the league. Good question though....what team does have the best starter/backup combination. New England is certainly in the running....but I won't hand it to them without more in depth discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted February 9, 2017 Report Share Posted February 9, 2017 Lets look at these by conference. Here are the starters and backups for each AFC team per Ourlads Who has the best combo?: Bills: Tyrod Taylor, EJ Manuel Dolphins: Tannehill, Matt Moore Pats: Brady, Garropolo Jets: Geno Smith, Bryce Petty Ravens: Flacco, Ryan Mallet Bengals: Dalton, AJ McCarron Browns: Griffin, Kessler Steelers: Roeth. Landry Jones Texans: Osweiler, Tom Savage Colts: Luck, Scott Tolzein Jags: Bortles, Chad Henne Tits: Mariota, Matt Cassell Broncos: Trevor Siemian, Paxton Lynch Chiefs: Alex Smith, Nick Foles Chargers: Rivers, Kellen Clemens Raiders: Carr, Matt McGloin Who is best in AFC? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunz41 Posted February 9, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 9, 2017 Yea, no. Honestly, I do not see Romo by any means as the best "backup QB" in the league. Good question though....what team does have the best starter/backup combination. New England is certainly in the running....but I won't hand it to them without more in depth discussion. I dunno, Tony Romo is a very good QB. Only question is health. Just go back to last time he played a lot, he was high in mvp race. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunz41 Posted February 9, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 9, 2017 Lets look at these by conference. Here are the starters and backups for each AFC team per Ourlads Who has the best combo?: Bills: Tyrod Taylor, EJ Manuel Dolphins: Tannehill, Matt Moore Pats: Brady, Garropolo Jets: Geno Smith, Bryce Petty Ravens: Flacco, Ryan Mallet Bengals: Dalton, AJ McCarron Browns: Griffin, Kessler Steelers: Roeth. Landry Jones Texans: Osweiler, Tom Savage Colts: Luck, Scott Tolzein Jags: Bortles, Chad Henne Tits: Mariota, Matt Cassell Broncos: Trevor Siemian, Paxton Lynch Chiefs: Alex Smith, Nick Foles Chargers: Rivers, Kellen Clemens Raiders: Carr, Matt McGloin Who is best in AFC? New England easily Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted February 9, 2017 Report Share Posted February 9, 2017 Here are the NFC starters/backups....for now. Who has the best duo? Cowboys: Prescott, Romo Giants: Eli, Ryan Nassib Eagles: Wentz, Chase Daniel Redskins: Cousins, McCoy Bears: Cutler, Hoyer Lions: Stafford, Dan Orlovsky Packers: Rodgers, Brett Hundley Vikings: Sam Bradford, Shaun Hill Falcons: Matt Ryan, Schaub Panthers: Cam Newton, Derek Anderson Saints: Brees, Luke McCown Bucs: Winston, Mike Glennon Cards: Palmer, Drew Stanton Rams: Goff, Case Keenum 49ers: Kaepernick, Gabbert Seahawks: Wilson, Trevon Boykin Who has the best duo? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted February 9, 2017 Report Share Posted February 9, 2017 New England easily I am of the opinion that for the NFC, the narrowest gap between starter and Backup may be either the Bengals with Dalton/McCarron...or the Chiefs with Smith/Foles. (this is not taking into consideration the HOF quality of Brady etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted February 9, 2017 Report Share Posted February 9, 2017 I dunno, Tony Romo is a very good QB. Only question is health. Just go back to last time he played a lot, he was high in mvp race. IF Romo were the Romo of 3 years ago. But he has had what? Two back surgeries since? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted February 9, 2017 Report Share Posted February 9, 2017 For the NFC, looking at the list, I am thinking that the Buccaneers may have the best combo with Winston and Glennon. At least that is my initial impression. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted February 9, 2017 Report Share Posted February 9, 2017 Last year, Jared Goff almost 28 million and 18.5 million guaranteed, Carson Wentz almost 27 million and 17.5 guaranteed, and Paxton Lynch 9.5 million and 5 million guaranteed. Jimmy Garoppolo in 2017- $820,077 salary and $75,000 workout bonus. He would be cheaper this year, but then more expensive. But like I said I don't mind these college QB's, its just something I don't understand with the league. Like I said I look at things coach wise, and of course that in kids and amateurs and I will admit I am much more into college than pros. My dad is a Browns fan, so thats why I am. There are probably 3 in the state of Virginia. But anyway, I don't get teams, not just one, or fans want of a draft pick over someone you have seen. There are examples all over the league of "x player' who was pretty good being traded for this draft pick. But there are also examples of teams giving up too much compensation for a proven player i.e. Sam Bradford. With all that said, I am in Camp hit on a lot of picks True that those are sizeable investments at risk, but teams feel the risk is low or they don't pick the prospect. Then add that the cost is for four years with a still, relatively cheap, 5th-year option in the teams pocket and any drafted QB that pans out is a bargain. If you want to lock up Jimmy G, and you will if you spend what NE is asking, then he will cost you all that in one year... and the same multiple years after. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasAg1969 Posted February 9, 2017 Report Share Posted February 9, 2017 IF Romo were the Romo of 3 years ago. But he has had what? Two back surgeries since? And 3 broken collarbones too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoorta Posted February 9, 2017 Report Share Posted February 9, 2017 Oops, they must have crossed my eyes in the writing. No I think Cam is way better than Dalton. I can admit when I am wrong, even though the wrong was just a mistake. That will earn you bonus points. You've probably noticed there's a few posters who will never admit that they're wrong. BTW, my former Browns fan boss relocated to Richmond. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunz41 Posted February 10, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2017 I am of the opinion that for the NFC, the narrowest gap between starter and Backup may be either the Bengals with Dalton/McCarron...or the Chiefs with Smith/Foles. (this is not taking into consideration the HOF quality of Brady etc. You need to clarify what you are asking for then. Because there is a huge difference in gap between starter and backup and best duo. I would say the narrowest gap is a team like the Browns, Texans, maybe even the Dolphins with how Moore finished the season, but are nowhere close to best duo. And as for Romo, yes he has been very injury prone the past few seasons, but when he is healthy he is very good. And right now he is the healthiest he has been in years. IF he can stay healthy (not miss extended period of time) he can make another team a lot better. His skill, I would take over any other QB in his division, except 50/50 with Dak. Dak showed so much poise and ran the offense well and doesn't make mistakes, where Romo has superior arm talent. Eli is so hot and cold I wouldn't trust him, Wentz played well in some games, some not so well, and Captain Kirk was fantasy QB goldmine, winning wise and great QB, not so much. And they are the closest team to me, about 3-4 hours but I can't pull for them or half my family and their Cowgirls, but Cousins and his yelling stuff just shows me he doesn't have IT. But for Washington, I think they should sign him long term because what is the alternative Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted February 10, 2017 Report Share Posted February 10, 2017 Makings of the 12 Days of Romo... which is about how long lasted this past preseason. ...3 broken collarbones ... Two back surgeries ... One golden arm? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted February 10, 2017 Report Share Posted February 10, 2017 You need to clarify what you are asking for then. Because there is a huge difference in gap between starter and backup and best duo. I would say the narrowest gap is a team like the Browns, Texans, maybe even the Dolphins with how Moore finished the season, but are nowhere close to best duo. And as for Romo, yes he has been very injury prone the past few seasons, but when he is healthy he is very good. And right now he is the healthiest he has been in years. IF he can stay healthy (not miss extended period of time) he can make another team a lot better. His skill, I would take over any other QB in his division, except 50/50 with Dak. Dak showed so much poise and ran the offense well and doesn't make mistakes, where Romo has superior arm talent. Eli is so hot and cold I wouldn't trust him, Wentz played well in some games, some not so well, and Captain Kirk was fantasy QB goldmine, winning wise and great QB, not so much. And they are the closest team to me, about 3-4 hours but I can't pull for them or half my family and their Cowgirls, but Cousins and his yelling stuff just shows me he doesn't have IT. But for Washington, I think they should sign him long term because what is the alternative I understand, it is two different questions. Any "duo" with Brady...and Rodgers etc. is going to be better than most duos, no matter how bad the backup may be. And then, yes, the second question would be: Which starter/backup duo is most interchangeable, in that the gap in talent between starter and backup is very narrow. Thanks for pointing that out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted February 10, 2017 Report Share Posted February 10, 2017 Makings of the 12 Days of Romo... which is about how long lasted this past preseason. Two back surgeries ... One golden arm? Four breakups with Jessica Simpson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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