Obama takes one step forward

[calfoxwc]

 

THE WORLD FROM BERLIN

 

'Obama Discrediting Himself and the US'

Many had hoped that US President Barack Obama would undo all the damage done by his predecessor. Now, it looks like he might continue the Bush-era practice of trying terror suspects in military tribunals. German commentators are disappointed.

 

When US President Barack Obama entered office in January and promptly pledged to shut down the US prison at Guantanamo and suspended all further military tribunals of the kind used by his predecessor George W. Bush, human rights groups across the country and the world were relieved. Finally, they thought, America would cease locking away terror suspects without recourse to the justice system.

 

 

 

Not surprisingly, though, closing down Guantanamo has proven much easier said than done. Even those prisoners deemed not to be dangerous are creating headaches for Washington as the search continues for countries willing to take them. Domestically, opposition is large to an Obama administration plan to release a group of Chinese Uighur prisoners into the US.

 

Many of the 241 prisoners, however, cannot simply be released -- and recent reports in the US media indicate that Obama may be grabbing for a Bush-era tool that he appeared to have jettisoned: military commissions. According to the New York Times this weekend, the Obama administration has begun leaning towards trying some of the remaining inmates in such controversial tribunals.

 

Obama has never categorically rejected the military commissions as a means of dealing with Guantanamo prisoners, some of whom are accused of having been involved in the planning of the Sept. 11, 2001 terror attacks in the US. During the campaign, though, he did say that "by any measure, our system of trying detainees has been an enormous failure."

 

Any return to using such military commissions would be a major disappointment to human rights groups who were hoping that Obama's election signalled a new era in America's handling of terror suspects. As German editorials show on Monday, frustration across the Atlantic is equally high.

 

In an editorial entitled "Obama's Great Mistake," the center-left daily Süddeutsche Zeitung writes:

 

"Obama's people certainly imagined things differently. But reality has caught up with them. What should they do with people who … are in fact horrifying criminals but whose confessions came as a result of brutal interrogations? No regular court would accept the testimony. Should suspected masterminds of the 9/11 attacks and other terrible attacks be set free? That can't be the solution either. Obama is thus considering holding on to the military commissions with a couple of extra rights for the suspects. Bush light, so to speak."

 

"Obama is thus discrediting both himself and the US. It would be better were he to gather the necessary political courage to initiate criminal proceedings before regular courts. Legally, it will be incredibly complicated and possibly untenable in some cases. But the country cannot get around the purification process. Otherwise, the poison from the Bush era could continue to infect America's image for years to come."

 

The left-leaning daily Die Tageszeitung writes:

 

"The US government has asked Germany to accept former Guantanamo prisoners. Exactly the same government is apparently planning to continue the military commissions to try those prisoners. One could hardly be more contradictory."

 

"It is the same tactic that President Barack Obama has already used when it came to the torturers from the CIA -- punish with one hand, stroke with the other. Whenever he takes a step forward, he stumbles backwards as well. That will likely be enough to disappoint all those Europeans who had expectations that Obama would be an almost messiah-like healer. It was expected that he would demolish all of the ugly monuments from the Bush era and then, together with Al Gore, plant a Garden of Eden over the top, through which he would drive fuel-efficient compacts from Chrysler."

 

"And now: the US president is pursuing a policy of trying to make everyone happy. He is trying to accommodate the left side of the political spectrum as well as those on the right. All of a sudden, Barack Obama is beginning to look eerily similar to Chancellor Angela Merkel. He is no longer floating above the political lowlands, the swamps of compromise. He is walking directly through them and getting dirty in the process."

 

 

 

The Financial Times Deutschland comes to Obama's defense on Monday:

 

"Barack Obama promised Americans and the rest of the world he would follow a governmental strategy akin to pushing the reset button. The small red button US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton recently presented in Moscow works as a symbol for Obama's domestic reform agenda just as well as it does for his vision of US foreign and security policy: Bush is gone, in the future everything will be completely different."

 

"But even the Obama government thinks it is too dangerous to bring all (Guantanamo) cases before civilian courts and to get rid of the military commissions set up by the Bush administration. Bush called them into existence after Sept. 11, 2001 in order to imprison so-called 'enemy combatants' outside of the US legal system in Guantanamo, interrogate them and sentence them before special courts."

 

"Such a policy cannot be made to disappear with a reset button. Were those cases currently being looked into by military commissions to be transferred to civilian courts, a number of procedural riddles would have to be solved -- because some of the most important suspects in Guantanamo were tortured, their testimony and confessions would likely be thrown out. Any civilian trials would also be overshadowed by secrecy concerns."

 

"The risk that such a civilian trial would be used by mass murderers as a soap box, or even that they would be released for purely formal or procedural reasons, would be large. It is for these reasons that Obama wants to hold on to -- reformed -- military commissions. That will likely disappoint all those who expected him to embark on a radical change of course. But it speaks for his understanding of reality."

 

-- Charles Hawley, 12:45 p.m. CET

 

 

 

[Mr. T]

This makes you wonder how much power Obama actually has.

 

The man is a puppet to the liberal cult who exploits anything positive that has been done for americans. Liberals love operating out of chaos. Obama must have been told by Emanuel that if his dumbass plan to bring these terrorists into the states for a trial came about that they would have to be let go.

 

We all know that Obama uses christianity just for votes while he succombs to the 7th century muslim faith that hates all who are indifferent. Lets watch and see if there are any new developments. My suspicions lead me to believe he will make another reversal before anything is done.

 

 

[calfoxwc]

Well, Obama was supposed to make all the world like us. Instead, Obama is a talking head

 

that makes friends with dictators, makes overtures to terrorist supporting countries,

 

supports those terrorist countries over Israel, puts our country down to anybody

 

who will listen, ...

 

I don't know. He's lost without a teleprompter. Liberals keep ignoring this whole biz

 

about OBama's gaffes and always having a teleprompter.

 

Refusing to admit reality about what is going on... that's what the problem is with liberals.

[choco]

seriously, its only worse in your head. shrub was a disater, so obama has to screw up pretty bad to be in that company.

 

yet, the continued attempt by the right to discredit obama thru smear is actually quite pathetic.....the GOP still hasn't even figured out where it went wrong. you say you need to reinvent the GOP image, yet, i still see old men crying for lower taxes....

 

the only arguments i see the right making against obama are merely idealogical differences......you dont like way he greeted the saudi king (insert conjecture here).....blah blah blah.

 

simple fact is, he's done nothing shrub hasn't done.....so what if he needs a teleprompter.....shrub couldn't even get the speech out when he used one, so consider with whom you are trying to draw parallels to.

 

 

fiscally, conservatives have the right idea.....too bad they spend like democrats. socially, you need to stay the xxxx outta my business. keep your religion to yourselves, because we dont care what you think.

[calfoxwc]

The problem is, the direction/trend of the Obama admin in only 100 days.

 

To get seriously concerned, a year or two down the road.

 

But there are thousands, if not hundreds of thousands.. of Americans

 

buying guns before the Obama admin clamps down on the 2nd Ammendment.

 

That, and the unheard of since Woodrow Wilson attempted intimadation of conservative talk show hosts,

 

and the attempted circumventing of the 1st Amendment signifies a legit concern across the country.

 

Even Dems are getting concerned - even in Congress....

[Guest mz.]

seriously, its only worse in your head. shrub was a disater, so obama has to screw up pretty bad to be in that company.

 

yet, the continued attempt by the right to discredit obama thru smear is actually quite pathetic.....the GOP still hasn't even figured out where it went wrong. you say you need to reinvent the GOP image, yet, i still see old men crying for lower taxes....

 

the only arguments i see the right making against obama are merely idealogical differences......you dont like way he greeted the saudi king (insert conjecture here).....blah blah blah.

 

simple fact is, he's done nothing shrub hasn't done.....so what if he needs a teleprompter.....shrub couldn't even get the speech out when he used one, so consider with whom you are trying to draw parallels to.

 

 

fiscally, conservatives have the right idea.....too bad they spend like democrats. socially, you need to stay the xxxx outta my business. keep your religion to yourselves, because we dont care what you think.

 

Outstanding post, choco.

 

Economically, I don't see much of difference between parties at this point, much like you. The social issues thing is the part that concerns me as well. Those who claim to champion freedom that get all in our (and everyone's) personal shit for whatever Biblical or "values" reason is exactly what gets me too.

[Westside Steve]

 

 

simple fact is, he's done nothing shrub hasn't done

 

That's kind of the point Choco and mz the pussy.

And Bush was despised for it.

 

fiscally, conservatives have the right idea.....too bad they spend like democrats.

 

Yes. But now it's many times worse. Complain about spending and elect the guy who vows to quadruple it.

Make sense?

 

socially, you need to stay the xxxx outta my business. keep your religion to yourselves, because we dont care what you think.

 

And the fact that that the president comes from a far more outspoken and hard core Christian church than G W Bush and holds the same view of gay marriage means what to you?

 

WSS

 

 

[Herman M]

Outstanding post, choco.

 

Economically, I don't see much of difference between parties at this point, much like you. The social issues thing is the part that concerns me as well. Those who claim to champion freedom that get all in our (and everyone's) personal shit for whatever Biblical or "values" reason is exactly what gets me too.

 

Do you have a problem with bible bangers? they must scare you, your probably feeling guilty of something.

[Guest mz.]

Do you have a problem with bible bangers?

 

No, I have problem with idiots, like yourself.

 

What position do you play on T's softball team? Catcher???

 

Thanks for dropping by...

[Guest mz.]

And the fact that that the president comes from a far more outspoken and hard core Christian church than G W Bush and holds the same view of gay marriage means what to you?

 

WSS

 

It means, to me, that we still have a long way to go.

 

[heckofajobbrownie]

So we're going to work from the premise that Barack Obama is more of a conservative Christian than George W. Bush because of the church he went to?

 

Really?

 

Again, distinctions, Steve, distinctions. George W. Bush is a born-again Christian who takes many views that are diametrically opposed to the ones Barack Obama takes. They're two different people, as much as you'd like to point out that they both went to church so that makes them the same.

 

As for gay marriage, I don't believe for a second that Obama doesn't believe in gay marriage personally, and that his opposition is pure political calculation. Nor would anyone who follows anything imagine that George Bush and Barack Obama have the same views and policies on gay rights.

 

Just once, try and tell two unlike things apart instead of conflating them so as to cram them into your cartoonish world view.

[DieHardBrownsFan]

Choco has joined the mz the pussy/Heck/Legacy fag club. Shame on you dummy. mz the pussy is the biggest hypocrite in here. He is a lying piece of cow shit. And you look like you might join him. Welcome aboard.

[DieHardBrownsFan]

Screw gay marriage, It is unnatural, and disgusting for two humans of the same sex to copulate. Even though you may enjoy it, it doesn't make it normal. You are all freaks of nature and may you all die a slow death. Peace.

[Legacy Fan]

I made the "fag club"????

 

Yes!!!

[Guest mz.]

I made the "fag club"????

 

Yes!!!

 

Welcome, Leg!!!

 

 

Now let us all "die a slow death" because we believe in equality!! Thanks, DieHard!!!

 

[PB&J]

For the next meeting of the fag club should we go bowling, or play softball?

[Guest mz.]

I vote for Pin the Tail on the Donkey, Spin the Bottle, or Bobbing for Apples.

[heckofajobbrownie]

Screw gay marriage, It is unnatural, and disgusting for two humans of the same sex to copulate. Even though you may enjoy it, it doesn't make it normal. You are all freaks of nature and may you all die a slow death. Peace.

 

Well said.

[Westside Steve]

So we're going to work from the premise that Barack Obama is more of a conservative Christian than George W. Bush because of the church he went to?

 

Really?

 

Yeah Heck, really.

Of course if you say so I'm willing to accept that your boy was faking it all along to consolidate power among the, ahem, race sensitive constituents.

 

Again, distinctions, Steve, distinctions. George W. Bush is a born-again Christian who takes many views that are diametrically opposed to the ones Barack Obama takes. They're two different people, as much as you'd like to point out that they both went to church so that makes them the same.

 

Oh dear no.

Obama's church is much more outratgeous than Bush's.

 

As for gay marriage, I don't believe for a second that Obama doesn't believe in gay marriage personally, and that his opposition is pure political calculation. Nor would anyone who follows anything imagine that George Bush and Barack Obama have the same views and policies on gay rights.

 

So again you say Obama is lying for personal gain.

Could be.

Then again it isn't really an outlandish idea is it?

I'd say most Americans oppose gay marriage. I'm certainly in the minority.

 

Just once, try and tell two unlike things apart instead of conflating them so as to cram them into your cartoonish world view.

 

 

Just once try to apply your blind hate equally.

But you can't seem to.

 

Kisses

WSS

[Guest mz.]

Creepier "stereotypical" supporters...

 

Obama: Excited black folk.

 

Bush: Children speaking in tongues, touching a life size cardboard Bush.

 

No contest.

[heckofajobbrownie]

Obama is more of a conservative Christian than George W. Bush. Got it.

 

Also, they have the same positions of gay rights. Got that too.

 

Thanks for clearing that up. Where would we all be without this insight?

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest Rus]

Obama is very good president. If he ending war in Iraq and Afghanistan.

[Legacy Fan]

Obama is more of a conservative Christian than George W. Bush. Got it.

Not anymore.

 

Obama to be prayer day no-show

 

I am in agreement though, with Obama, or Gibbs, or Rahm or whomever it is that's writing today, that prayer should be a personal, private matter.

 

I just find it amusing that Shirley Dobson is the only bureaucrat in Washington that isn't getting her calls returned. Is this Administration turning over a new leaf?

[Westside Steve]

Obama is more of a conservative Christian than George W. Bush. Got it.

 

Trinity United or St John's? (But like I said I;'m willing to accept your argument that Obama's merely a power hungry liar.)

 

Also, they have the same positions of gay rights. Got that too.

 

Sorry. What gay rights are being denied?

 

Thanks for clearing that up. Where would we all be without this insight?

 

And thanks again for mischaracterizing a comment when you are unable to respond.

And thanks for proving once again you're nothing more than a flack.

 

And where would the conversation be without me?

 

It'd be you shilling for the empty suit ad infinitum.

 

 

Glad to help.

 

WSS

 

 

 

 

 

 

[choco]

Choco has joined the mz the pussy/Heck/Legacy fag club. Shame on you dummy. mz the pussy is the biggest hypocrite in here. He is a lying piece of cow shit. And you look like you might join him. Welcome aboard.

ok then.....unless you haven't noticed, mz the pussy and i get heated quite a bit.

 

to be clear, i am not affiliated with either party.....i offer praise when they do something right (almost never), yet express dissent when they screw up.

 

 

republicans are, by far, larger hypocrites than democrats could ever aspire to be. perhaps its the influence of the buy bull beaters.....but to preach freedom and deny it to those based on moral judgments is fairly reprehensible. look in the mirror when you decide it OK to rail on gay's....half the GOP are closet homosexuals....unless you haven't noticed. i seem to think their (ie, GOP) hopes are to ban gay marriage to remove their temptation.....you hiding something DHB?

 

the only positive i've personally seen come from the religious right is the sexual repression forced on their children. college was a great time as a result.......

 

 

im sorry you're not comfortable in your own skin.....its still no reason to deny others the right to a pursuit of happiness.......and happiness here is not just your happiness.

[Guest mz.]

Another great post, choco. I really couldn't agree with you more.

 

The problem is, there will not be any sort of measured response to your points, just, well, you know, more of the same...

[heckofajobbrownie]

Steve, you're terribly uninformed. Terribly.

 

George Bush wasn't only against gay marriage, he pushed for and endorsed a Constitutional amendment to ban gay marriage. That's hardly Obama's position on gay marriage. He's done nothing to try and stop the states from passing laws that legalize gay marriage. He's never said an unkind word about those decisions. Because he agrees with them. He just doesn't say so for political reasons. Politicians make these types of political decisions all the time -- you know, because they're politicians. It's fine to call them on it, but to imagine that this doesn't happen or that somewhere there's a politician who doesn't make political decisions is to live in a sizeable cocoon of naiveté.

 

As a supporter of gay marriage, and as someone who wanted to see Obama elected in part because of his far superior position on gay rights issues, and issues of equality in general, I didn't want him to mention his support for gay marriage in the campaign - nor did I expect him to - so that he'd stand the best chance of winning.

 

Trust me: the gay community, and the people who care about issues that affect the gay community, are much happier to see Barack Obama president than someone who was also against gay marriage (though not for amending the Constitution) and selected a running mate who believes that not only should gays not be allowed to marry, but that being gay is a sin against God.

 

Again, if you can't tell the difference between Barack Obama and George Bush or even John McCain on gay issues than you're tragically simple. It's really not that hard to differentiate.

 

Or try their policies on DADT. Again, totally different.

 

It's okay to admit this reality, even though I'm the one who is laying it out for you. It's like admitting that brown and green are different colors. It's that simple.

[Westside Steve]

Steve, you're terribly uninformed. Terribly.

 

George Bush wasn't only against gay marriage, he pushed for and endorsed a Constitutional amendment to ban gay marriage.

 

Don't see the big difference.

The Bush position was equal or to the left of most Americans. No marriage but accepting of civil union.

So they're both against it.

So one panders a little left and one a little right.

BFD.

 

I realize you fully expect Obama to lie since it might have alienated his biggest voting bloc.

 

Dude you can spin all ya want.

 

BIDEN: "No, Barack Obama nor I support redefining, from a civil side, what constitutes marriage. We do not support that. That is basically a decision to be able to be left to the faiths and people who practice their faiths to determine what you call it."

 

Plus the church Obama sought out as anadult is wayyyyy over the top orf any one Bush attended.

 

Just man up Heck, if ya hate Christians that badly hate 'em all.

I know "equality" is important to ya.

 

WSS

[heckofajobbrownie]

I guess you're that simple.

[Westside Steve]

I guess you're that simple.

 

I guess you're that loyal.

 

Hey I think you're probably right.

The whole Christianity gay marriage thing could have easily been a cynical ruse.

 

But doesn't that beg the question:

 

If he so boldy lied about that to keep his ignorant and superstitious voters on the bus are you concerned about any other issues that mean something to you personally?

 

Or are you just automatically on board with whatever positions he chosses?

 

WSS