calfoxwc Posted February 19, 2017 Report Share Posted February 19, 2017 OBF, you wouldn't question a God that answers a prayer about a kid's hearing but ignores millions of other prayers and lets kids get raped and murdered? This is a serious, age old question. The Biblical answer has to do with the angelic conflict, and mankind's free will. https://www.gotquestions.org/angelic-conflict.html I had an incredible miracle that saved my young life. And the truth is, why doesn't everybody get a miracle... after that incident, I used to go out into the middle of our 147 acres, mostly virgin timber, and would sit on "mossy hill" ...thick moss was all atop it, underneath giant beech and oak trees. I would talk to God, because believe me, at that time, for the first time, I KNEW God was there. Seriously, while my Dad was at work, I'd sit for hours there. I honestly expected to hear that Charlton Heston Ten Commandments voice come down from the heavens and explain it to me. But it never did. As I said to that, one time, in speech class.. it was just as well I didn't hear it, because I didn't want to be a preacher anyways...... Is the angelic conflict really an allegory? don't know. I just know I miraculously got a second chance to be a great kid, son, friend, husband... the hideous evil, and the wonderul good in this world, sure seems like the angelic conflict to me.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LogicIsForSquares Posted February 19, 2017 Report Share Posted February 19, 2017 Don't worry, OBF, it's par for the course. The libs won't ridicule a Muslim, but the first time you explain about being a Christian, the hard core ones go after you. The time I told how I nearly died in the middle of winter, as a kid, I got ridiculed about it, Too bad. Seems that when history or reality confronts their hardcore emotions, they attack. EDIT: referring to cleve who mocks most anything, anyways. There is one Muslim on this board (as far as I am aware) and I think people have thoroughly let him know how they feel about Islam. People debate with OBF about it because he is a pretty reasonable guy to debate with. There will be knuckleheads who say nonsense to him but for the most part this has seemed pretty civil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LogicIsForSquares Posted February 19, 2017 Report Share Posted February 19, 2017 This is a serious, age old question. The Biblical answer has to do with the angelic conflict, and mankind's free will. https://www.gotquestions.org/angelic-conflict.html I had an incredible miracle that saved my young life. And the truth is, why doesn't everybody get a miracle... after that incident, I used to go out into the middle of our 147 acres, mostly virgin timber, and would sit on "mossy hill" ...thick moss was all atop it, underneath giant beech and oak trees. I would talk to God, because believe me, at that time, for the first time, I KNEW God was there. Seriously, while my Dad was at work, I'd sit for hours there. I honestly expected to hear that Charlton Heston Ten Commandments voice come down from the heavens and explain it to me. But it never did. As I said to that, one time, in speech class.. it was just as well I didn't hear it, because I didn't want to be a preacher anyways...... Is the angelic conflict really an allegory? don't know. I just know I miraculously got a second chance to be a great kid, son, friend, husband... the hideous evil, and the wonderul good in this world, sure seems like the angelic conflict to me.... While you know I don't believe in a higher power, this is a better religious explanation then "welp God works in mysterious ways". Thank you, Cal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbedward Posted February 19, 2017 Report Share Posted February 19, 2017 As a role model he should know better than to be an idiot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLD Woody Posted February 19, 2017 Report Share Posted February 19, 2017 Magic donkeys and healing prayer. I'm sorry, but I can't believe something with 0 evidence. Of course the Bible tells you the magic won't work every time, but keep believing. The people that wrote it want to keep their believers in line. Contingency plans and all that. I just don't understand how someone can be so gullible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieHardBrownsFan Posted February 19, 2017 Report Share Posted February 19, 2017 Magic donkeys and healing prayer. I'm sorry, but I can't believe something with 0 evidence. Of course the Bible tells you the magic won't work every time, but keep believing. The people that wrote it want to keep their believers in line. Contingency plans and all that. I just don't understand how someone can be so gullible. Scary dark people. I see no evidence. Atheist good. Believer bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldBrownsFan Posted February 19, 2017 Report Share Posted February 19, 2017 This is a serious, age old question. The Biblical answer has to do with the angelic conflict, and mankind's free will. https://www.gotquestions.org/angelic-conflict.html I had an incredible miracle that saved my young life. And the truth is, why doesn't everybody get a miracle... after that incident, I used to go out into the middle of our 147 acres, mostly virgin timber, and would sit on "mossy hill" ...thick moss was all atop it, underneath giant beech and oak trees. I would talk to God, because believe me, at that time, for the first time, I KNEW God was there. Seriously, while my Dad was at work, I'd sit for hours there. I honestly expected to hear that Charlton Heston Ten Commandments voice come down from the heavens and explain it to me. But it never did. As I said to that, one time, in speech class.. it was just as well I didn't hear it, because I didn't want to be a preacher anyways...... Is the angelic conflict really an allegory? don't know. I just know I miraculously got a second chance to be a great kid, son, friend, husband... the hideous evil, and the wonderul good in this world, sure seems like the angelic conflict to me.... I believe the spiritual conflict is real. Logic brought up probably the main point many atheists have towards belief in a personal God (and something I have thought about as well) and that is why God would allow such terrible things to happen such as a young child with cancer or any number of horrible things that happen to innocent people? Why if God could intervene and prevent it wouldn't He? The bible gives an answer on many of these questions but they are spiritual in nature and if you don't believe in anything spiritual you won't accept it. The bible says satan is the god of this world 2 Cor 4:4 and that is and always has been the problem. We live in a world dominated by satan and demonic forces. For all the mockery thrown at God speaking the universe into existence for me it still holds up as the better argument than out of absolute nothing came the physical universe. And the bible is correct in stating the universe had a beginning which science agrees with today. The spiritual realm is even more real than the physical realm because the physical realm was created from the spiritual realm. Daniel ch 10 shows clearly the curtain being pulled back and the spiritual battle in the spiritual realm. An angel tells Daniel that his prayer was heard the first day he prayed but the angelic messenger was delayed in battle bringing the answer to him. This is all about the spiritual realm and the conflict in the heavenlies. The angel spoke of the spiritual conflict with the prince of Persia and he is not speaking of any human here but demonic angels behind the scenes. I believe that same demonic prince of Persia is still there today ruling behind the scenes. The Apostle Paul says the same thing that the real conflict is behind the scenes in the spiritual realm where the battle lies. It is not with people it is with demonic forces working through people. Ephesians 6:12. Thanks for posting that Cal about the angelic conflict. It kind of prodded me to go there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjp28 Posted February 19, 2017 Report Share Posted February 19, 2017 So to recap the Kyrieistic view of th the world.....what exactly happens when we shoot up GPS, weather, communications and other satellites not to mention real human beings up to orbit the earth? Are they really going around the earth taking pictures or are they just on a big carousel like a big record player? Wouldn't they see each other? Too confusing for my little brain comprehend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiamat63 Posted February 19, 2017 Report Share Posted February 19, 2017 The bible says satan is the god of this world 2 Cor 4:4 and that is and always has been the problem. I've always found this hard to comprehend seeing as Hell was damnation AND imprisonment for Satan. Whom set him loose? While we're at it, if Satan is the God of this world - how will the 'meek inherit the Earth'...? Finally, Satan hath created the affliction is a convenient..... excuse. (For lack of a better word) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted February 19, 2017 Report Share Posted February 19, 2017 There's always something to be said about first hand evidence. The Earth curvature is not apparent to the human eye so as far as the empirical evidence leans him it is flat. WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieHardBrownsFan Posted February 19, 2017 Report Share Posted February 19, 2017 I believe the spiritual conflict is real. Logic brought up probably the main point many atheists have towards belief in a personal God (and something I have thought about as well) and that is why God would allow such terrible things to happen such as a young child with cancer or any number of horrible things that happen to innocent people? Why if God could intervene and prevent it wouldn't He? The bible gives an answer on many of these questions but they are spiritual in nature and if you don't believe in anything spiritual you won't accept it. The bible says satan is the god of this world 2 Cor 4:4 and that is and always has been the problem. We live in a world dominated by satan and demonic forces. For all the mockery thrown at God speaking the universe into existence for me it still holds up as the better argument than out of absolute nothing came the physical universe. And the bible is correct in stating the universe had a beginning which science agrees with today. The spiritual realm is even more real than the physical realm because the physical realm was created from the spiritual realm. Daniel ch 10 shows clearly the curtain being pulled back and the spiritual battle in the spiritual realm. An angel tells Daniel that his prayer was heard the first day he prayed but the angelic messenger was delayed in battle bringing the answer to him. This is all about the spiritual realm and the conflict in the heavenlies. The angel spoke of the spiritual conflict with the prince of Persia and he is not speaking of any human here but demonic angels behind the scenes. I believe that same demonic prince of Persia is still there today ruling behind the scenes. The Apostle Paul says the same thing that the real conflict is behind the scenes in the spiritual realm where the battle lies. It is not with people it is with demonic forces working through people. Ephesians 6:12. Thanks for posting that Cal about the angelic conflict. It kind of prodded me to go there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcus Posted February 19, 2017 Report Share Posted February 19, 2017 If you chose not to believe so be it. But I and some others chose to. You want call us ignorant have at it. I know that I'm an educated man and a good person, don't need you for confirmation. Some of us have used our beliefs as the backbone of life of meaningfulness. Just because you have chosen not to do the same, doesn't give you the right to use our beliefs as a punchline. Most Agnostics and Atheists I talk subscribe to science and reason. To me all the discoveries made by scientists no matter their personal beliefs confirm God's existence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted February 19, 2017 Report Share Posted February 19, 2017 Don't worry, OBF, it's par for the course. The libs won't ridicule a Muslim, but the first time you explain about being a Christian, the hard core ones go after you. The time I told how I nearly died in the middle of winter, as a kid, I got ridiculed about it, Too bad. Seems that when history or reality confronts their hardcore emotions, they attack. EDIT: referring to cleve who mocks most anything, anyways. Are u claiming i mocked you for almost dying? When? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted February 19, 2017 Report Share Posted February 19, 2017 Magic donkeys and healing prayer. I'm sorry, but I can't believe something with 0 evidence. Of course the Bible tells you the magic won't work every time, but keep believing. The people that wrote it want to keep their believers in line. Contingency plans and all that. I just don't understand how someone can be so gullible. But what happened really happened. 0 evidence... do you want me to post my old black and white picture of Chico, our beautiful dark burgundy burro? According to you, nothing has ever happened to anyone because you don't see evidence of it. That is really sad, the way you are. Let me know when you get fair and balanced and ridicule "magic mohammed" or something. I wouldn't put it past you - you keep proving yourself to be a woodypeckerhead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted February 19, 2017 Report Share Posted February 19, 2017 Why would woody call bs on you being an ass, no im sorry owning an ass? ☕ Eh, who saw what i did there? Raise ur hands Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieHardBrownsFan Posted February 19, 2017 Report Share Posted February 19, 2017 But what happened really happened. 0 evidence... do you want me to post my old black and white picture of Chico, our beautiful dark burgundy burro? According to you, nothing has ever happened to anyone because you don't see evidence of it. That is really sad, the way you are. Let me know when you get fair and balanced and ridicule "magic mohammed" or something. I wouldn't put it past you - you keep proving yourself to be a woodypeckerhead. So, you're the Frito Bandito? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldBrownsFan Posted February 19, 2017 Report Share Posted February 19, 2017 I've always found this hard to comprehend seeing as Hell was damnation AND imprisonment for Satan. Whom set him loose? While we're at it, if Satan is the God of this world - how will the 'meek inherit the Earth'...? Finally, Satan hath created the affliction is a convenient..... excuse. (For lack of a better word) Hell was created for satan and demons and not man but when man sides in with satan and takes sides against God he will go to hell. It is not God's will that anyone go to hell but man is created in God's image which is spiritual and when our bodies die our spirits live on either in heaven or hell. Not only the Apostle Paul but Jesus makes clear that satan is the ruler of the earth (for now). When satan tempted Jesus saying that he (satan) was given authority over the world and he could transfer that authority to Jesus he was not not lying. That authority came from Adam when he sinned and satan took the authority over the world God had given to Adam. That authority was time limited and satan's rule over the earth is coming to a close. The meek shall inherit the earth..yes and the bible speaks of a new heaven and a new earth to come and that is the inheritance spoken of. As for the afflictions and tragedies coming from satan and satan being the god of this world as I said the bible explains many things but some will not accept them. They are spiritual realities that are spiritually discerned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted February 19, 2017 Report Share Posted February 19, 2017 Wait, i thought eve was the sinner...what did adam sin again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldBrownsFan Posted February 19, 2017 Report Share Posted February 19, 2017 Wait, i thought eve was the sinner...what did adam sin again? Eve was deceived Adam wasn't. What Adam did was deliberate. These were the first two people "born again" the wrong way. When God told Adam when he sinned he would die Adam didn't die until hundreds of years later physically. But he died immediately spiritually. Immediately he could not stand in the presence of God. He along with Eve were now separated. What was Adam's sin? I believe it was treason. He willfully turned over the authority he was given to God's enemy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted February 19, 2017 Report Share Posted February 19, 2017 . The meek shall inherit the earth.If this is true, it will crush you the day this comes to pass because of how few of you will qualify. Seriously look around you sometime. You side with men who sign decrees saying "hey dump that shit where you please man its all good man, that meek inheritance business...thats how we keep the ngrs in line pay it no mind". We live in one of the most antithetical to jesus societies. It aint happenin for y'all sorry Such a "paradise" if it ever comes to be, will not be for jews, christians or mooslims.....or any dogmatic religion. Least not those that werent able to see through their respective tainted ideaologies. ☕ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted February 19, 2017 Report Share Posted February 19, 2017 Eve was deceived Adam wasn't. What Adam did was deliberate. These were the first two people "born again" the wrong way. When God told Adam when he sinned he would die Adam didn't die until hundreds of years later physically. But he died immediately spiritually. Immediately he could not stand in the presence of God. He along with Eve were now separated. What was Adam's sin? I believe it was treason. He willfully turned over the authority he was given to God's enemy. Such convoluted stories, hard to keep track of all the nonsense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldBrownsFan Posted February 19, 2017 Report Share Posted February 19, 2017 If this is true, it will crush you the day this comes to pass because of how few of you will qualify. Seriously look around you sometime. You side with men who sign decrees saying "hey dump that shit where you please man its all good man, that meek inheritance business...thats how we keep the ngrs in line pay it no mind". We live in one of the most antithetical to jesus societies. It aint happenin for y'all sorry Such a "paradise" if it ever comes to be, will not be for jews, christians or mooslims.....or any dogmatic religion. Least not those that werent able to see through their respective tainted ideaologies. ☕ If anyone ever makes it to heaven it will be because of what Jesus did on the cross. There is no human who ever lived who "deserved" to go to heaven. We can only get there by grace (unmerited or unearned favor). Of course we should live the best lives we can but inevitably we will all fall short. Jesus is the only one who measures up and what he did was for us who don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted February 19, 2017 Report Share Posted February 19, 2017 If anyone ever makes it to heaven it will be because of what Jesus did on the cross. There is no human who ever lived who "deserved" to go to heaven. We can only get there by grace (unmerited or unearned favor). Of course we should live the best lives we can but inevitably we will all fall short. Jesus is the only one who measures up and what he did was for us who don't. Aghhhh, now we're gettin somewhere. This is exactly what people told themselves before they did unmentionable things for the proliferation of their religion. Ah well im not perfect only jesus was....fernando go kill that village that wont mine gold for me!! Man fuck my imperfect life. And a layer of bullshit was just lifted, hope u paid attn obf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldBrownsFan Posted February 19, 2017 Report Share Posted February 19, 2017 Aghhhh, now we're gettin somewhere. This is exactly what people told themselves before they did unmentionable things for the proliferation of their religion. Ah well im not perfect only jesus was....fernando go kill that village that wont mine gold for me!! Man fuck my imperfect life. And a layer of bullshit was just lifted, hope u paid attn obf Your forgetting about judgement. We are all going to face it and give an account so grace is not a blank check to go out and do bad things, that is actually getting into an area of having a reprobate mind (people who are classified as having a reprobate mind have some knowledge of God and perhaps know of His commandments. However, they live impure lives and have very little desire to please God. Those who have reprobate minds live corrupt and selfish lives. Sin is justified and acceptable to them. The reprobates are those whom God has rejected and has left to their own devices.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted February 19, 2017 Report Share Posted February 19, 2017 The reprobates are those whom God has rejected and has left to their own devices.) Even if they take jesus as their lord and savior? Remember just being all sorry and such is enough. The church sells a few indulgences and bada bing bada boom im back in the lirds good graces Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldBrownsFan Posted February 19, 2017 Report Share Posted February 19, 2017 Even if they take jesus as their lord and savior? Remember just being all sorry and such is enough. The church sells a few indulgences and bada bing bada boom im back in the lirds good graces The bible speaks of repentance which is different than just being sorry. Repentance means an about face. So it is a sorrow for sin (definition of sin is missing the mark) and turning away from sin that is required. Sorrow for sin is not enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted February 19, 2017 Report Share Posted February 19, 2017 The bible speaks of repentance which is different than just being sorry. Repentance means an about face. So it is a sorrow for sin (definition of sin is missing the mark) and turning away from sin that is required. Sorrow for sin is not enough. No personal offense but this all sounds exactly like what i would have told peopke if i was a spiteful, hateful entity trying to convince a lowlier species i was the be all end all and they should worship my ass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLD Woody Posted February 19, 2017 Report Share Posted February 19, 2017 Most Agnostics and Atheists I talk subscribe to science and reason. To me all the discoveries made by scientists no matter their personal beliefs confirm God's existence. How,? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Cysko Kid Posted February 19, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 19, 2017 The problem with God is that he sent these messengers 2100 or 1500 years ago depending on which set of horseshit you believe and then he gave us all the finger. "No more prophets for you dingleberries" If he made us he ought to know that was insufficient. God has bad judgement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieHardBrownsFan Posted February 19, 2017 Report Share Posted February 19, 2017 The problem with God is that he sent these messengers 2100 or 1500 years ago depending on which set of horseshit you believe and then he gave us all the finger. "No more prophets for you dingleberries" If he made us he ought to know that was insufficient. God has bad judgement. A mere human cannot question god. You are a crab on gods nuts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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