The Gipper Posted March 6, 2017 Report Share Posted March 6, 2017 Came across this and referred to in a prior post: Camp Derek Barnett for pick #12. Realized in researching that his numbers of sacks and tackles for loss are better for his career over the same period as Garrett's have been: http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/derek-barnett-2.html http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/myles-garrett-1.html Both played in the SEC against the same competition. No, I have not seen much film on Barnett. I just know that he is also a highly rated DE, same slot as Garrett. So...in my opinion, if we wait and take him at #12....it is possible we may be getting just as good or better a prospect than if we take Garrett at #1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wargograw Posted March 6, 2017 Report Share Posted March 6, 2017 You could argue he's just as good a player as Garrett at the moment. But he is nowhere near as good a prospect. A prospect is about a guy's ceiling. Myles' is MUCH higher than Barnett's. They didn't really have the same competition. The SEC East hasn't had near the talent of the West. In the last three years alone you've had Cam Robinson, Greg Robinson, La'el Collins, Dan Skipper (who will get drafted this year), and Laremy Tunsil. That's three (maybe four if not for Collins' arrest) first rounders and these are just off the top of my head. I can't think of any first round OTs from the East. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted March 6, 2017 Report Share Posted March 6, 2017 Better fit as a 3-4 hybrid. In williams 4-3 he's gonna have to hold up at the point alot. But tbh garett needs wirk in that respect too. Id just be more comfortable with a guy with garetts physical foundation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wargograw Posted March 6, 2017 Report Share Posted March 6, 2017 All that said, I wouldn't really be opposed to this. But I'm not sure Barnett is that much better than Ogbah, Orchard, and Nassib. DE is really not a huge need. The only reason we're going to take Garrett is because he is far and away BPA. Outside of that, we can use our first rounders elsewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasAg1969 Posted March 6, 2017 Report Share Posted March 6, 2017 Gip-see my post on the SEC competition difference on the Beware the next Jeff George thread. I see war has made the same argument here as well. East does not equal West SEC. And I personally like Solomon better than Barnett. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted March 6, 2017 Report Share Posted March 6, 2017 Ah... Camp "Maybe-I-can-ratioanlize-taking-Mitch-at-#1-overall-with-this-pick-at-#12" V1.0 has arrived. Better fit as a 3-4 hybrid. In williams 4-3 he's gonna have to hold up at the point alot. But tbh garett needs wirk in that respect too. Id just be more comfortable with a guy with garetts physical foundation. This... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted March 6, 2017 Report Share Posted March 6, 2017 All that said, I wouldn't really be opposed to this. But I'm not sure Barnett is that much better than Ogbah, Orchard, and Nassib. DE is really not a huge need. The only reason we're going to take Garrett is because he is far and away BPA. Outside of that, we can use our first rounders elsewhere. Orchard is likely gone imo. Being hurt and having played olb'er since he was drafted, not sure he fits williams scheme well. But who knows. I just currently see og and nas as better 4-3 ends, wynn too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted March 6, 2017 Report Share Posted March 6, 2017 And I personally like Solomon better than Barnett. Gip's problem is he needs an edge alternative at #12 and even he knows Solomon won't be there. So he's taken Barnett out for a spin... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark O Posted March 6, 2017 Report Share Posted March 6, 2017 Garrett at #1 and Barnett at #12? That wouldn't suck I don't think. Barnett broke Reggie Whites sack record at Tennessee so that can't be a bad thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted March 6, 2017 Report Share Posted March 6, 2017 No to two DE's, thats stupid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark O Posted March 6, 2017 Report Share Posted March 6, 2017 Our defense gave up 3,000,000,000 points last season. Garrett and Barnett would be better than anything we currently have on defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasAg1969 Posted March 6, 2017 Report Share Posted March 6, 2017 Our defense gave up 3,000,000,000 points last season. Garrett and Barnett would be better than anything we currently have on defense. LOL-Ogbah was looking much better by the end of the year. Put him opposite end of Garrett and I think he shines. People forget he had pretty good combine too. http://www.nfl.com/draft/2016/profiles/emmanuel-ogbah?id=2555278 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted March 6, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 6, 2017 You could argue he's just as good a player as Garrett at the moment. But he is nowhere near as good a prospect. A prospect is about a guy's ceiling. Myles' is MUCH higher than Barnett's. They didn't really have the same competition. The SEC East hasn't had near the talent of the West. In the last three years alone you've had Cam Robinson, Greg Robinson, La'el Collins, Dan Skipper (who will get drafted this year), and Laremy Tunsil. That's three (maybe four if not for Collins' arrest) first rounders and these are just off the top of my head. I can't think of any first round OTs from the East. Are all you Gayrett fags going to come in with the same line? Barnett had more sacks....more tackles for loss. Gayrett had over half his sacks against the little sisters. So...apparently, those OL you mentioned....perhaps NFL caliber OL handled Garrett. Not a good recommendation for him. I don't know how Barnett's numbers crunched on his totals: cupcakes vs. non cupcakes. But I suspect it is not as bad as Garrett's. Besides....I am saying to take Barnett at 12, not at 1. And I am saying we MAY actually get as good or better of a prospect. While you think that Garrett may have a better upside....I for one am not so sure....and that is just a prediction, not a fact. For all we really know, Barnett could be the next Reggie White and Garrett the next Courtney Brown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted March 6, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 6, 2017 Better fit as a 3-4 hybrid. In williams 4-3 he's gonna have to hold up at the point alot. But tbh garett needs wirk in that respect too. Id just be more comfortable with a guy with garetts physical foundation. I haven't seen the recent combine numbers, but Garrett, from PFR is said to be 6'5 262. Barnett is 6'3 265. Similar. If you have updated combine numbers, by all mean, post those. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted March 6, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 6, 2017 All that said, I wouldn't really be opposed to this. But I'm not sure Barnett is that much better than Ogbah, Orchard, and Nassib. DE is really not a huge need. The only reason we're going to take Garrett is because he is far and away BPA. Outside of that, we can use our first rounders elsewhere. And we don't really know if Garrett will turn out better than Ogbah, Orchard and Nassib. We won't know diddly for 3 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted March 6, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 6, 2017 Gip-see my post on the SEC competition difference on the Beware the next Jeff George thread. I see war has made the same argument here as well. East does not equal West SEC. And I personally like Solomon better than Barnett. Yes, I see the circle jerk you two are doing....and I basically dismiss this "Oh the SEC west is so so much better than the SEC East). If the SEC West is better....it is because it has Alabama...and that is it. Otherwise, I see very little difference in the two divisions....at least in terms of this last season. I guess we could take this aspect of the discussion over to the College Board, but, stronger or not.....Garrett seemingly fared poorly against the so called stronger division. If you can come up with figures that shows that Barnett got as many of his sacks against the cupcakes on his schedule as Garrett did...then we may have a discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted March 6, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 6, 2017 Ah... Camp "Maybe-I-can-ratioanlize-taking-Mitch-at-#1-overall-with-this-pick-at-#12" V1.0 has arrived. This... That could be partly it.....based on the fact that QB is far, far more of a priority for this team...and you know it. And based on the fact that I don't want to ignore the defensive side of the ball or the need for an edge rusher. And based on the fact that Barnett's number ARE better than Garrett's numbers. And based on the fact that for all we know Barnett MAY in fact be as good or better than Garrett, or that his worth is ever so slightly less that it would still be the proper investment to go for a QB at 1 and the edge rusher at 12. Since you certainly cannot assure me that we can get Garrett at 1 AND MT at 12....I would rather go with MT at 1...and be certain...and take Barnett at 12...and be content that we made a good choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted March 6, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 6, 2017 Orchard is likely gone imo. Being hurt and having played olb'er since he was drafted, not sure he fits williams scheme well. But who knows. I just currently see og and nas as better 4-3 ends, wynn too. Well, under any circumstances we would still need depth on the DL. And even if Ogbah and Nassib are better....you still need backups...even if we take either Garrett or Barnett. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted March 6, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 6, 2017 Gip's problem is he needs an edge alternative at #12 and even he knows Solomon won't be there. So he's taken Barnett out for a spin... But if you go back a long way....back to when the college season was still going on....I was looking at Barnett favorably....not even being aware at the time that Garrett may have been considered the top prospect at that position. At that point in time I felt that Barnett could easily have been pegged as the best prospect there. Thomas, no, I didn't really have him on my radar. The other guy on my radar as an edge rusher was Tim Williams. At the time I thought any of the three....Williams, Barnett, Garrett could have been the better edge rush prospect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted March 6, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 6, 2017 Garrett at #1 and Barnett at #12? That wouldn't suck I don't think. Barnett broke Reggie Whites sack record at Tennessee so that can't be a bad thing. I was thinking QB....our top priority at #1. And sure, while it may be foolish to compare Barnett to White...well, we can dream. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark O Posted March 6, 2017 Report Share Posted March 6, 2017 I was thinking QB....our top priority at #1. And sure, while it may be foolish to compare Barnett to White...well, we can dream. I know you were....I was just fucking with you.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted March 6, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 6, 2017 Our defense gave up 3,000,000,000 points last season. Garrett and Barnett would be better than anything we currently have on defense. Well, the issue there is the investment the Browns would have made in the same position over the last two years. A DE at both 1 and 12....in addition to taking a DE last year at both #32 and #65? Don't know that analytics would call for that much investment in one spot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted March 6, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 6, 2017 I know you were....I was just fucking with you.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted March 6, 2017 Report Share Posted March 6, 2017 Garett was in the 270's when he ran his 40. He could prob hit 280'ish in a year or so in the nfl without losing speed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted March 6, 2017 Report Share Posted March 6, 2017 We have other needs that must be addressed instead of taking a 2nd DE. Doing so almost ensures og and/or nas are gone. I saw too many good things out of them last year that if they build on it and improve this year, garett will have stiff competition for playing time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted March 6, 2017 Report Share Posted March 6, 2017 Garett was in the 270's when he ran his 40. He could prob hit 280'ish in a year or so in the nfl without losing speed. Until yesterday potentially comparing Garrett to JJ Watt never occurred to me. And while it is still premature to do so, I can't say that anymore... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob806 Posted March 6, 2017 Report Share Posted March 6, 2017 Call me crazy if you wish,but if OJ Howard is there at #12, take him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted March 6, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 6, 2017 We have other needs that must be addressed instead of taking a 2nd DE. Doing so almost ensures og and/or nas are gone. I saw too many good things out of them last year that if they build on it and improve this year, garett will have stiff competition for playing time I....am not talking about taking a 2d DE. Just perhaps the one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted March 6, 2017 Report Share Posted March 6, 2017 Until yesterday potentially comparing Garrett to JJ Watt never occurred to me. And while it is still premature to do so, I can't say that anymore... Why would u? Two diff players Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted March 6, 2017 Report Share Posted March 6, 2017 Why would u? Two diff players Yes, they are... now... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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