The Gipper Posted April 20, 2017 Report Share Posted April 20, 2017 http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2699236-nfl1000-cleveland-browns-2017-nfl-draft-preview Draft and current staff analysis ... Interesting synopsis. Here is the bottom line that I took out of this article. It summarizes the Browns needs (draft or otherwise?) at various positions on a scale of 0-10. And here is what it says: QB need 10 out of 10 RB need 4 out of 10 FB need 1 out of 10 WR need 4 out of 10 TE need 4 out of 10 LT need 0 out of 10 RT need 0 out of 10 (lot of confidence in Shon Coleman) OG need 0 out of 10 OC need 0 out of 10 Defense: DE 8 out of 10 DT 7 out of 10 OLB 9 out of 10 ILB 1 out of 10 CB 8 out of 10 FS 8 out of 10 SS 8 out of 10 K 6 out of 10 P 1 out of 10 So, in order our needs are: 1. QB 2. OLB 3. SS, CB, FS, DE 4. DT 5. Kicker 6. WR/RB/TE 7. ILB, P, FB 8. T, G, C So, per this, except for primary need at QB, the Browns draft should be seriously defensive heavy, as beside QB the next 6 areas of need are all on defense. I don't think the Browns will be drafting a K or P...or LS. One area not covered are kick return positions. To me, that would rate right up there at about the 8 out of 10 level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasAg1969 Posted April 20, 2017 Report Share Posted April 20, 2017 Interesting synopsis. Here is the bottom line that I took out of this article. It summarizes the Browns needs (draft or otherwise?) at various positions on a scale of 0-10. And here is what it says: QB need 10 out of 10 RB need 4 out of 10 FB need 1 out of 10 WR need 4 out of 10 TE need 4 out of 10 LT need 0 out of 10 RT need 0 out of 10 (lot of confidence in Shon Coleman) OG need 0 out of 10 OC need 0 out of 10 Defense: DE 8 out of 10 DT 7 out of 10 OLB 9 out of 10 ILB 1 out of 10 CB 8 out of 10 FS 8 out of 10 SS 8 out of 10 K 6 out of 10 P 1 out of 10 So, in order our needs are: 1. QB 2. OLB 3. SS, CB, FS, DE 4. DT 5. Kicker 6. WR/RB/TE 7. ILB, P, FB 8. T, G, C So, per this, except for primary need at QB, the Browns draft should be seriously defensive heavy, as beside QB the next 5 areas of need are all on defense. Fortunately this is a defense heavy draft and presents the opportunity to resolve quit a few problems on that side of the ball in a major way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonBrown Posted April 20, 2017 Report Share Posted April 20, 2017 I feel really sorry for Kessler. Performed admirably in his first season with a banged up O line and rookie receivers including Pryor. Its like he doesn't exist to the fans or the media. What's clear is none of these QBs in the draft are immediate starters (I think Kizer could but he'd be very up and down) so get used to Kessler starting next year whatever happens next week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted April 20, 2017 Author Report Share Posted April 20, 2017 If 'needeval' > 'talenteval', then 'draft' = 'fail'... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasAg1969 Posted April 20, 2017 Report Share Posted April 20, 2017 If 'needeval' > 'talenteval', then 'draft' = 'fail'... Speculation on This Morning Football on NFL Network today was on the very issue of BPA vs draft for need. Conclusion was that the vast majority of the time you go for BPA regardless of how strong any position is or how great the need in one that really isn't BPA. They also said that someone inevitably will prove this axiom once again by drafting for need above talent and get a "fail" as a result. Browns have done it so many times it is just uncanny. Put George in charge and do "the opposite". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted April 20, 2017 Author Report Share Posted April 20, 2017 Browns have done it so many times it is just uncanny. Put George in charge and do "the opposite". ... or Sashi & Company... All those fails were in the days of "a football guy" calling the shots... Farmer... Holmgren... and on and on... Every time a new one was put in charge we rallied around them based upon what they'd done wherever they were before they came to us. Every time a new one drafted some fell away muttering, "WTF?", while others hung in there... at least one more draft. Few of our "guys" ever saw a third draft. Now we have "a process" full of co-equal key players with a year under their belt, time to prepare and a solid FA season in their resume. I like our odds... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted April 20, 2017 Report Share Posted April 20, 2017 Speculation on This Morning Football on NFL Network today was on the very issue of BPA vs draft for need. Conclusion was that the vast majority of the time you go for BPA regardless of how strong any position is or how great the need in one that really isn't BPA. They also said that someone inevitably will prove this axiom once again by drafting for need above talent and get a "fail" as a result. Browns have done it so many times it is just uncanny. Put George in charge and do "the opposite". There undoubtedly has to be some balance between BPA and drafting for need. I mean, if say, the Buccaneers who just drafted Winston a few years ago with the #1 pick, when it was their turn to pick had a QB as the highest graded player on their board, it would make no sense for them to pick that QB. If your team has a Hall of Fame Left Tackle, yet the best graded player when it is your turn to pick is a Left Tackle, again, it makes no sense to take him....especially if your team has a dearth at QB, WR, DE, DB, LB etc. You move on from the absolutely highest rated player to someone else, closely rated that fits a need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gumby73 Posted April 21, 2017 Report Share Posted April 21, 2017 So, in order our needs are: 1. QB 2. OLB 3. SS, CB, FS, DE 4. DT 5. Kicker 6. WR/RB/TE 7. ILB, P, FB 8. T, G, C One area not covered are kick return positions. To me, that would rate right up there at about the 8 out of 10 level. Nice conversion list Gip. I like it.#3.can also solve a kick return position at same time. If we take 1 position out of #6, which position before the Kicker at 5? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted April 21, 2017 Report Share Posted April 21, 2017 Nice conversion list Gip. I like it.#3.can also solve a kick return position at same time. If we take 1 position out of #6, which position before the Kicker at 5? Well, despite Woody slobbering all over Peppers, he does intrigue me as a potential decent DB....and as a return man. If he dropped to #33 I would not be opposed to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gumby73 Posted April 21, 2017 Report Share Posted April 21, 2017 Well, despite Woody slobbering all over Peppers, he does intrigue me as a potential decent DB....and as a return man. If he dropped to #33 I would not be opposed to him. If we take Adoree Jackson instead can we get the white horse thrown in. Swagger will be riding "6" White Horses when he scores Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted April 22, 2017 Report Share Posted April 22, 2017 If we take Adoree Jackson instead can we get the white horse thrown in. Swagger will be riding "6" White Horses when he scores Right.....we need a returner.....and a multi skilled one would be great!......But, Id take Adore or Samuel over Peppers, cause they've already shown they can do the other work(besides return)..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasAg1969 Posted April 22, 2017 Report Share Posted April 22, 2017 Right.....we need a returner.....and a multi skilled one would be great!......But, Id take Adore or Samuel over Peppers, cause they've already shown they can do the other work(besides return)..... Yep Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gumby73 Posted April 22, 2017 Report Share Posted April 22, 2017 Really I thought Mosart's came in & saved Tabor a job. But what else can Mosart's add? He'd have to beat out a RB? Even with Mosart's,it was not the kick offs we could not roster..But even Tramon Williams was brought in for That "Rare Ac-cation" we forced a PUNT. Any of them back there looked up as if they were scared the moon was falling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted April 22, 2017 Report Share Posted April 22, 2017 Right....it's been a few years since we've had a decent returner.....Benji did ok for a couple then got skeered.....and the rest have sucked.....(tho Gilbert averaged 28 yds per ko)...but didnt wanna be back there and the Browns obliged... You'd think that if we were drafting 4 WR's, then one or 2 of those guys would double as a returner.... Louis aint it.....and Coleman is, what, too valuable???....or something..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted April 22, 2017 Author Report Share Posted April 22, 2017 Kinda surprised Duke never took over the return role... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted April 22, 2017 Report Share Posted April 22, 2017 Right.....we need a returner.....and a multi skilled one would be great!......But, Id take Adore or Samuel over Peppers, cause they've already shown they can do the other work(besides return)..... Fair enough. I just know we need a returner. Even Woody has questioned Pepper's coverage skills (while still slobbering all over him) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darren15 Posted April 24, 2017 Report Share Posted April 24, 2017 http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000802040/article/casserly-mock-draft-40-brownsjags-trade-nets-two-qbs?campaign=tw-cf-sf72801788-sf72801788 Casserley's draft ...please dont trade to 4 for a 2nd round talent ....stay at 12 and get OJ Howard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted April 24, 2017 Report Share Posted April 24, 2017 http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000802040/article/casserly-mock-draft-40-brownsjags-trade-nets-two-qbs?campaign=tw-cf-sf72801788-sf72801788 Casserley's draft ...please dont trade to 4 for a 2nd round talent ....stay at 12 and get OJ Howard But since that pick may have Hall of Fame talent....you make that deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonBrown Posted April 24, 2017 Report Share Posted April 24, 2017 According to the chart moving from 12 to 4 would cost our fourth rounder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted April 24, 2017 Report Share Posted April 24, 2017 According to the chart moving from 12 to 4 would cost our fourth rounder Polian this morning says that if the Browns want to move up that far from 12 to take MT, that they are going to have to pay on the order of what the Redskins paid to move up to get RGIII....or what the Eagles paid to move up to get Wentz.. In other words, two first round picks plus. Especially, he said, if the deal is being made with another AFC team. His comment was "if you want to get better at our expense (meaning as a rival AFC team), you are going to have to pay a premium. So, while the draft trade chart values may say a 4th rounder is all it would take to move up....the actual human beings in the rooms are going to want to be lavished beyond all avarice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonBrown Posted April 24, 2017 Report Share Posted April 24, 2017 Polian this morning says that if the Browns want to move up that far from 12 to take MT, that they are going to have to pay on the order of what the Redskins paid to move up to get RGIII....or what the Eagles paid to move up to get Wentz.. In other words, two first round picks plus. Especially, he said, if the deal is being made with another AFC team. His comment was "if you want to get better at our expense (meaning as a rival AFC team), you are going to have to pay a premium. So, while the draft trade chart values may say a 4th rounder is all it would take to move up....the actual human beings in the rooms are going to want to be lavished beyond all avarice. And that's why this FO wont do it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted April 24, 2017 Author Report Share Posted April 24, 2017 Charlie's assuming competition for the pick to take a QB. Word is that both the 49ers and the Bears are looking to trade down and most of the potential trade up partners are not QB-seekers. That adds up to a buyers market and Charlie being dead wrong. Does not necessarily mean a 4th will "get 'er dun", but the chart is only a starting point and it's a long way to multiple #1's from a 4th. In the end it all boils down to how confident a team is that they will get the player they covet at the pick they trade down to. If they're 100% sure, then any added value is enough to do the deal. Not sure how they'd get to 100%, but I'm sure some do... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted April 24, 2017 Report Share Posted April 24, 2017 And that's why this FO wont do it I suspect, yes. If it costs an arm and a leg and a testicle to move up, no, they won't do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted April 24, 2017 Report Share Posted April 24, 2017 Well, the very loud buzz today is that the Browns are talking to every team inside the top 10, feeling out the trade "up" situation.... Which makes me very nervous.....very very.......(unless they're planning to nab Adams along with Garrett)...... But I fear its a QB.....and we will way over pay and lose some of our top picks.....(for a guy I dont even want at 2.1).... The scenario being discussed is us using #1 to take Trubs(or maybe Watson) and then trading up to tap a top defensive player......I dunno.....just dont like that scenario at all Praying it's just a horrible horrible rumor.......but they seemed to be saying that it's 100% certain the Browns are investigating the move up.....but no one knows for whom.... For one year only....Im feeling more and more like we should just let the draft come to us and see how it plays out.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasAg1969 Posted April 24, 2017 Report Share Posted April 24, 2017 Well, the very loud buzz today is that the Browns are talking to every team inside the top 10, feeling out the trade "up" situation.... Which makes me very nervous.....very very.......(unless they're planning to nab Adams along with Garrett)...... But I fear its a QB.....and we will way over pay and lose some of our top picks.....(for a guy I dont even want at 2.1).... The scenario being discussed is us using #1 to take Trubs(or maybe Watson) and then trading up to tap a top defensive player......I dunno.....just dont like that scenario at all Praying it's just a horrible horrible rumor.......but they seemed to be saying that it's 100% certain the Browns are investigating the move up.....but no one knows for whom.... For one year only....Im feeling more and more like we should just let the draft come to us and see how it plays out.... Think long, think wrong and the Browns are the expert thinkers of the NFL. Nothing they do would surprise me. Piss me off, yes. Surprise me, no. DO NOT SCREW THIS UP!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wargograw Posted April 24, 2017 Report Share Posted April 24, 2017 This FO is a steel trap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted April 24, 2017 Report Share Posted April 24, 2017 This FO is a steel trap. Yes they are....but once you start calling everyone else....the trap opens..... Id say, based upon what Ive heard(and it's been going all day), is that it's fairly certain and confirmed they are making the calls....... The rest (IE...who they want) is all speculation though.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyceRolls Posted April 25, 2017 Report Share Posted April 25, 2017 I'm on the record: the Browns should let the draft come to them and use the top 4 picks on day one impact guys (no QB). If they take Watson at 1, 12 or in a trade up from 12. I'll be running the car in the garage Friday morning(assuming I survive the amount of whiskey I have Thursday night). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
syd Posted April 25, 2017 Report Share Posted April 25, 2017 Well, the very loud buzz today is that the Browns are talking to every team inside the top 10, feeling out the trade "up" situation.... Which makes me very nervous.....very very.......(unless they're planning to nab Adams along with Garrett)...... But I fear its a QB.....and we will way over pay and lose some of our top picks.....(for a guy I dont even want at 2.1).... The scenario being discussed is us using #1 to take Trubs(or maybe Watson) and then trading up to tap a top defensive player......I dunno.....just dont like that scenario at all Praying it's just a horrible horrible rumor.......but they seemed to be saying that it's 100% certain the Browns are investigating the move up.....but no one knows for whom.... For one year only....Im feeling more and more like we should just let the draft come to us and see how it plays out.... honestly I say to relax cause as I said in a different thread I believe it is all smoke in the hope that some other team will move up for a qb and then we have a better chance to get the player we really want Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted April 25, 2017 Author Report Share Posted April 25, 2017 Well, the very loud buzz today is that the Browns are talking to every team inside the top 10, feeling out the trade "up" situation.... And in other "news".... the Browns talked to 21 other teams about their interest in trading up. It's called due diligence... Mud, Mud, Mud... I'm disappointed... but out of respect I did not say "due fucking diligence"... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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