Josh Cribbs Is Expected To Skip Browns Minicamp

[Guest ATENEARS]

Cribbs plays a dime-a-dozen position ... I think PR/KR's carry P & K's luggage on away trips.

 

Is this guy kidding?

 

Yawwwnnnn ... someone wake me when the kicker farts.

[Riffer X]

Cribbs isn't going anywhere nor is he going to hold out, this is only a mini camp and the first step in renegotiation. He had to do something to show the Browns he means it and hence I'm rather sure there will be some sort of resolution.

 

I would expect that he should be persuaded to wait another year and see how his performance translates this year in a larger role, especially since it appears he will be a big part of something, be it out of the backfield or on defense.

 

IMO, sit down and talk about incentives based on this year and if he meets certain criteria next year they can go to town. He should have no problem with that and neither should the Browns.

[YtownBrownsBacker]

Let's ask them. Many of them are paid less than our long snapper right now. He makes 2-3x what Cribbs does. Cribbs also makes less than 46 kickers and punters did last year............ What's the problem? What am I missing? You're really attached to Lerner's profit margins?

 

What you are missing is the fact that Cribbs took his money up front. Don't look at what someone is making this year. Cribbs wanted guaranteed money so he took $2 million up front. That is the choice he decided was best.

 

Others take a chance with larger yearly salaries of non guaranteed money, but there's a chance they will get cut and not see the money. Again, Cribbs took it up front and he also gets OTA bonuses and does have some incentives built into his contract. You and others are quoting base salary.

 

That being said, it really isn't the big deal some try to make it to be. He will decide to come in eventually and he will play. He is under contract. I also do believe the Brown's will take care of him. Remember, they have a bunch of draft choices to get under contract before camp opens and that takes great pains to get done because everyone is looking at what the guy above and below him get.

 

Josh needs to honor his contract and keep discussions open and it will get done.

[Sez.EJ]

I am sick of guys who sign a contract then want out of it. Seriously..the ink is barely dry on the contract he signed. He felt it was a good contract when he signed it. be a man and honor it. Play your contract out or stay home. I love cribbs..but not so much right now. i understand asking for a new deal.. but you show up and play/practice showing you respect the team. returners are too easily replaced..although not pro bowlers... but kick returners dont have a whole lot of leverage.. This is not the way to show the new regime your a team guy.... does he want to be a reciever? does he want the coaches to give him a chance there? This is not how you do it.. it's just stupid.

[plumcrazy73]

then again lets take a grain of salt till we hear from Cribbs himself

[budcarson]

I am sick of guys who sign a contract then want out of it. Seriously..the ink is barely dry on the contract he signed. He felt it was a good contract when he signed it. be a man and honor it. Play your contract out or stay home. I love cribbs..but not so much right now. i understand asking for a new deal.. but you show up and play/practice showing you respect the team. returners are too easily replaced..although not pro bowlers... but kick returners dont have a whole lot of leverage.. This is not the way to show the new regime your a team guy.... does he want to be a reciever? does he want the coaches to give him a chance there? This is not how you do it.. it's just stupid.

 

I don't hear anybody whining about "honor the contract you signed" when a team cuts someone. The salaries are not guaranteed. Ownership can cut ties any time they feel a player isn't living up to the contract. When a player outplays the terms of the deal, his only recourse is to withhold his services. The sessions are optional. Look I'm not saying he is getting the best advice but he's one of the few guys who I have felt has given it all the last several years - cut him some slack.

 

As far as the 'dime a dozen', he's so replaceable argument goes from others on the board, I am baffled. I can only assume you didnt read the article I linked to previously in the thread.

[Sez.EJ]

I don't hear anybody whining about "honor the contract you signed" when a team cuts someone. The salaries are not guaranteed. Ownership can cut ties any time they feel a player isn't living up to the contract. When a player outplays the terms of the deal, his only recourse is to withhold his services. The sessions are optional. Look I'm not saying he is getting the best advice but he's one of the few guys who I have felt has given it all the last several years - cut him some slack.

 

As far as the 'dime a dozen', he's so replaceable argument goes from others on the board, I am baffled. I can only assume you didnt read the article I linked to previously in the thread.

BUD: I did read the article. and I don't agree with your position on teams cutting guys.. Guys sign a contract with the belief they will be strong perfomers and have earned the contract they have signed. If they do not live up the the performance level the team does have a right to cut them. Your telling me Cribbs signed the last contract saying..."well I'll sign this based on that I expect to be average and get no better than I am now" ????? NO he expects to improve and make an impact. That contract probably even has incentives for the reciever postion if he improves enough to get on the field. .

I also did not use the phrase.... "dime a dozen" There are no such positions in football in my opinion. I am saying that this position (returner) is "easier" to fill than others and returners don't have a lot of leverage. Don't put words in my mouth I did not use....

 

As I said.. I understand asking for a new contract..but you SHOW UP and play and practice and show you are an honorable man and worthy of the contract being torn up. Cribbs just signed his deal.. I say he has to play it out or stay home.. I don't think he will hold out myself. I think he is a great player and hope he figures out the right way to handle these things.... I just don't believe in this..it has no honor.

[Tobalaz]

I don't hear anybody whining about "honor the contract you signed" when a team cuts someone. The salaries are not guaranteed. Ownership can cut ties any time they feel a player isn't living up to the contract. When a player outplays the terms of the deal, his only recourse is to withhold his services. The sessions are optional. Look I'm not saying he is getting the best advice but he's one of the few guys who I have felt has given it all the last several years - cut him some slack.

 

As far as the 'dime a dozen', he's so replaceable argument goes from others on the board, I am baffled. I can only assume you didnt read the article I linked to previously in the thread.

I'm not saying the guy doesn't deserve more cash, after all he's definetly been a top 5 returner and demon on coverage every season so far.

What I was saying is he took the big chunk up front and was happy with it until Hester got the big contract (and was ALSO moved to the #1 wr spot by the way), so given that I'd have to say play this season with what you've got since he JUST got this contract and ask for an adjustment depending on how your roll has expanded, if not, you're not going to get as much as you'd like and then you're going to piss and moan again next season.

 

[We need Tom Tupa]

As far as the 'dime a dozen', he's so replaceable argument goes from others on the board, I am baffled. I can only assume you didnt read the article I linked to previously in the thread.

 

For those that didn't bother to click through, the article concludes that in 2007 Cribbs gave the Browns 880 more return yards than his replacement would have. Dime a dozen? For comparison, it shows that only 7 QBs produced that many more yards than a replacement QB would have.

 

He obviously played better than the Browns expected. That article shows that he had the best return yardage season of any returner since the merger! OBVIOUSLY he outplayed his contract. And on top of that, he leads the coverage team. But that isnt even the point. He isnt asking for a raise. He isnt asking to be the highest paid returner in the league (although he clearly deserves it), and he isnt asking to be the highest paid Brown on ST (although he clearly deserves it). All he is asking is that they put incentives into his contract that allow him to be paid for anything he does on offense. If is just the greatest STer in the league again, then we get him for the tiny contract we got him to sign. The only way he gets paid more is if he starts doing the job of 3 men instead of just 2. How is anyone offended by this? The alternative is that the money goes to Randy Lerner. Is that your concern? Are you worried about Lerner's wallet? Is there something I'm missing here? Did he insult your mother or something?

[budcarson]

I also did not use the phrase.... "dime a dozen" There are no such positions in football in my opinion. I am saying that this position (returner) is "easier" to fill than others and returners don't have a lot of leverage. Don't put words in my mouth I did not use....

 

 

I specifically said that "dime a dozen" was being used by others on the board, and it was - on that same page. Not putting words in your mouth.

[We need Tom Tupa]

I'm not saying the guy doesn't deserve more cash, after all he's definetly been a top 5 returner and demon on coverage every season so far.

What I was saying is he took the big chunk up front and was happy with it until Hester got the big contract (and was ALSO moved to the #1 wr spot by the way), so given that I'd have to say play this season with what you've got since he JUST got this contract and ask for an adjustment depending on how your roll has expanded, if not, you're not going to get as much as you'd like and then you're going to piss and moan again next season.

The "big chunk up front" argument is complete bullshit until someone here shows that they have a clue how much he could have made by taking the other contract you are imagining.

 

He was happy with the contract until we started playing him at QB and RB. He took an okay contract for a return man. Then the WildDawg caught on. Now we are talking about playing him more at QB, RB, WR, DB... is that what he was signing a contract to do? Would you let your boss double your work load without asking for more money?

 

He gets one shot at this 10 year career and has to hope he doesnt get injured before that. He goes all out on every play for us and is now willing to take twice as many hits by lining up for more snaps. Paying him more is the right thing to do.

[We need Tom Tupa]

I just don't believe in this..it has no honor.

If I hadnt read the rest of your post, I would have assumed you were referring to management reneging on the promises Savage made to him last year and Lerner may have made since.

[We need Tom Tupa]

I hate this kind of stuff. Lerner directly told OBR he never had any kind of conversation with Cribbs about his contract, last year, this year... ever. Cribbs' agent says his client insists it happened. Sounds ugly.

 

Cribbs didn't have a huge year last year, not like 2007. It's the wrong time, in my opinion. I'd play this season under the new regime before I paint them into a corner.

 

Mangini has made it very, very clear that he regards Cribbs very highly. He'd like to find ways to let him put that value to work more on offense and/or defense. THEN he gets paid, if you ask me.

Unless he gets injured playing positions he isnt being paid to play. Or unless management cant see why he should make more in 2010 for doing the same thing he did in 2009. Or unless he takes your advice and takes the high road for a 3rd year in a row and gets screwed for the 3rd year in a row.

[Tobalaz]

The "big chunk up front" argument is complete bullshit until someone here shows that they have a clue how much he could have made by taking the other contract you are imagining.

 

He was happy with the contract until we started playing him at QB and RB. He took an okay contract for a return man. Then the WildDawg caught on. Now we are talking about playing him more at QB, RB, WR, DB... is that what he was signing a contract to do? Would you let your boss double your work load without asking for more money?

 

He gets one shot at this 10 year career and has to hope he doesnt get injured before that. He goes all out on every play for us and is now willing to take twice as many hits by lining up for more snaps. Paying him more is the right thing to do.

What other contract?

I never mentioned any other contract being offered to Cribbs.

Cribbs took a contract with 2 million upfront, guaranteed money and was HAPPY with it until Hester got the 40 million dollar deal with Chicago (which AGAIN, moved him to the #1 wr spot).

I don't know what other contracts might have been offered to Cribbs and never referenced them, please show me where I did.

 

 

[budcarson]

I'm not saying the guy doesn't deserve more cash, after all he's definetly been a top 5 returner and demon on coverage every season so far.

What I was saying is he took the big chunk up front and was happy with it until Hester got the big contract (and was ALSO moved to the #1 wr spot by the way), so given that I'd have to say play this season with what you've got since he JUST got this contract and ask for an adjustment depending on how your roll has expanded, if not, you're not going to get as much as you'd like and then you're going to piss and moan again next season.

 

Are we talking about the same league? $2mil up front on a 6 year deal is not really a big chunk, and neither is devin hester a #1wr - regardless of their depth chart. those two deals aren't even in the same neighborhood.

[Tobalaz]

Are we talking about the same league? $2mil up front on a 6 year deal is not really a big chunk, and neither is devin hester a #1wr - regardless of their depth chart. those two deals aren't even in the same neighborhood.

No, Hester is not a #1 wr, but he was given that contract with the expectations to be their #1 wr.

Cribbs was given his contract strictly as a special teamer, and with his expanded role, yes, he deserves more.

I'm just saying if you just inked a deal don't go menstrual because you were happy with what you got until someone else got more.

 

 

[Riffer X]

 

There's been some damn good points made in this thread for both sides, but I think he should give one more season and if he's the major contributor we're planning on then he gets paid. I don't see how that's too much to ask.

 

Either that, or it's strictly based on incentives for this season. Regarding it being Lerner's money, it still affects the team and it's ability to function and also establishes precedent for other players to follow suit.

[We need Tom Tupa]

What other contract?

I never mentioned any other contract being offered to Cribbs.

Cribbs took a contract with 2 million upfront, guaranteed money and was HAPPY with it until Hester got the 40 million dollar deal with Chicago (which AGAIN, moved him to the #1 wr spot).

I don't know what other contracts might have been offered to Cribbs and never referenced them, please show me where I did.

Ytown did on page 1. Sorry to confuse the two of you.

 

Again, Cribbs isnt just a return man anymore either. If he was, then this would be a different discussion. But he isnt asking for a penny more for his ST work. All he wants is incentives for his offensive work. If he doesnt get used a ton, then we dont pay him. Please help me understand what part of that you dont think is right. He shouldve known the WildDawg would catch on?

[Skinny]

How is Cribbs going to be elsewhere scoring TDs? He's under contract for 4 more years. He isn't going anywhere unless the front office chooses that route.

 

IMO Cribbs will probably get a new deal, AFTER this season. AFTER Mangini incorporates him more into the offense, and possibly defense. AFTER Mangini sees what else Cribbs can do for the Browns. But I have to agree with Kokinis' stance. Why should a new front office, for any team, be held liable for promises made by the outgoing regime? IF a promise was made by Lerner, then its Lerner treating Cribbs bad, not Mangini.

That is what i was thinking almost to a t. Also why would a new regime want to restructure anyone's contract until they see what they can do in the new schemes.

 

And if Cribbs is projected to get all this playing time wouldn't you wanna see what he is really worth so we aren't revisiting this come 2012. We wouldn't over pay or underpay. And everyone will be happy

[NebBrownsFan]

Ytown did on page 1. Sorry to confuse the two of you.

 

Again, Cribbs isnt just a return man anymore either. If he was, then this would be a different discussion. But he isnt asking for a penny more for his ST work. All he wants is incentives for his offensive work. If he doesnt get used a ton, then we dont pay him. Please help me understand what part of that you dont think is right. He shouldve known the WildDawg would catch on?

 

Where has it been reported what he wants? How do you know all he wants is incentives for his offensive work?

[budcarson]

I hate this kind of stuff. Lerner directly told OBR he never had any kind of conversation with Cribbs about his contract, last year, this year... ever. Cribbs' agent says his client insists it happened. Sounds ugly.

 

It does look pretty bleak at the moment. If this goes much further, to follow taylor's account, it will be hard to get all of the toothpaste back into the tube and expect no hard feelings, if that's even still possible at this point.

[We need Tom Tupa]

It's really rare that a returner is a game changer all year like Cribbs was in 2007. He wasn't last year. I almost hesitate to say this, because I really do love that guy... but I'd sure be a little edgy about throwing huge dollars at a special teams star. They seem to flame out, for the most part, which is why teams try to hard to fit them in as position players.

 

Hester got paid, but he's catching passes and becoming a WR much faster than Cribbs (51 for 665). And yeah... that deal still seems a little crazy to me.

 

I would consider giving Cribbs a new deal, but not for Hester money. I'm just saying.

I wouldnt give him huge dollars either. But I would give him a contract that ensured that he would be paid for any additional work on offense or defense. All incentives, which Taylor at OBR suggested yesterday was all that Cribbs was looking for.

[plumcrazy73]

http://www.profootballtalk.com/category/rumor-mill/

 

Cribbs Stalemate Escalates

Posted by Mike Florio on May 19, 2009, 6:25 a.m.

 

The contrast between the respective positions held by the Browns and receiver/kick returner Josh Cribbs has quickly become nearly as divisive as the question of whether Mike Vick should be reinstated.

 

Our own John Taylor of CFT has continued to smother this story for The Orange And Brown Report, and John’s Monday night entry shows two sides that are firmly entrenched as to the question of whether Browns owner Randy Lerner promised to address Cribbs’ contract.

 

The conflict between the versions provided by Lerner and Cribbs couldn’t be more clear. Cribbs apparently would swear under oath that Lerner promised after the regular-season finale to address the player’s contract; Lerner vehemently denies that any such commitment ever was made.

 

Lerner told Taylor by phone Monday night that “he has neither addressed Cribbs’ contract with the player personally, nor has he spoken to the player over the phone regarding his contract.”

 

Cribbs’ camp issued earlier in the evening the following statement: “We have incredible trust in our client, and we have cell phone records to back up that trust. After talking to Lerner [on the day of the season finale], [Cribbs] called [his agents], called his financial advisor, called numerous people, to let us know what he had just talked to Lerner about. . . . We aren’t trying to throw anybody under the bus, but we stand by the credibility of our client.”

 

The stalemate apparently crossed the proverbial Rubicon on Monday afternoon, when the Browns issued a statement denying reports that any promises had been made to Cribbs. His agents thereafter said that the team’s comments made Cribbs “look like a liar or a fabricator.”

 

On the surface, this problem is no different than the dispute between the Eagles and cornerback Sheldon Brown. The player signed a long-term deal, the player thinks he has outperformed the deal, and the team is content to point to the contract and remind the player that he signed the agreement without the barrel of a gun resting on either temple.

 

But this one has taken on a darker quality in light of the fact that Cribbs genuinely believes that the team promised to fix the situation. Though the verbal promises have no legally binding effect, Cribbs now believes not only that he has been lied to, but also that the team is going out of its way to paint him as the liar.

 

In our view, it’s a very risky way to run a football team, especially with a bunch of other guys who can identify with Cribbs watching and listening.

 

[choco]

just based on our current personnel...there's almost no way, barring injury, that cribbs sees time at WR.....

 

his numbers indicate he's a better RB....with JH and JD behind JL, again, barring injury.....

 

no CB slots left.....so maybe safety. which imo is a stretch as he's never played defense in the NFL. he's surely got the measureables, and some intangibles, but almost no instincts for the position. this is all speculation anway, as we dont know that he'll be taking on a heavier role here.

 

 

 

thats just my view, where does he fit in to get the additional playing time to fulfill and incentives based contract?

[hammertime]

All this talk about cribbs playing here playing there and how they should utilize his talent is a bit much.

 

Stand back and look at the big picture. Undrafted to a special team phenom. We've seen flashes of brillance at other spots but to commit to him finacially as a full time player seems a bit much when he's never seen time as a full time players since college.

 

Its not like he playing for free now. I think one more year before you make demands. Did Lerner promise him? Remember this, Cribbs may be a great player but he'll never be confused with a rocket scientist.

[ballpeen]

Unless he gets injured playing positions he isnt being paid to play. Or unless management cant see why he should make more in 2010 for doing the same thing he did in 2009. Or unless he takes your advice and takes the high road for a 3rd year in a row and gets screwed for the 3rd year in a row.

 

Part of the deal Tom.

 

Earlier you said this...

 

The alternative is that the money goes to Randy Lerner. Is that your concern? Are you worried about Lerner's wallet?

 

I agree with that. It doesn't really matter what we pay him as long as it fits into the cap.

 

However, I think it bad precedent for teams to keep redoing a players contract. It emboldens other players to think they can do the same.

 

I am all for fair, and as said earlier, I usually side with players in this sort of deal and do think Cribbs should be paid more. But again, he was pretty happy when we did the last one with no complaints.

 

My solution would be to amend the current contract to include reasonable, attainable incentives, assuming such provisions are allowed under the current contract..I wouldn't be very agreeable to any more signing bonus money.

 

He is unhappy with his pay schedule. I would keep it at that. No mention of being unhappy with his signing bonus was made.

 

 

 

[We need Tom Tupa]

All this talk about cribbs playing here playing there and how they should utilize his talent is a bit much.

 

Stand back and look at the big picture. Undrafted to a special team phenom. We've seen flashes of brillance at other spots but to commit to him finacially as a full time player seems a bit much when he's never seen time as a full time players since college.

 

Its not like he playing for free now. I think one more year before you make demands. Did Lerner promise him? Remember this, Cribbs may be a great player but he'll never be confused with a rocket scientist.

For the nth time, we arent talking about committing to him financially and then seeing him not make an impact. We are talking about adding incentives to his contract that would kick in IF he became more of a full-time player. Does anyone have a problem with this or are we going to just keep opposing fictional demands for guaranteed money?

 

He says Lerner called him on the phone. Lerner said he didnt call him on the phone. We arent talking about a misunderstanding. This is whether or not he ever got a phone call. I'm not a rocket scientist either, but I can usually tell who I'm talking to. Cribbs' agents also say that they have cell records to back him up and that he made several calls right after getting off the phone with Lerner to let his agents and financial people know that Lerner had made promises to him.

[We need Tom Tupa]

Part of the deal Tom.

 

Earlier you said this...

 

 

 

I agree with that. It doesn't really matter what we pay him as long as it fits into the cap.

 

However, I think it bad precedent for teams to keep redoing a players contract. It emboldens other players to think they can do the same.

 

I am all for fair, and as said earlier, I usually side with players in this sort of deal and do think Cribbs should be paid more. But again, he was pretty happy when we did the last one with no complaints.

 

My solution would be to amend the current contract to include reasonable, attainable incentives, assuming such provisions are allowed under the current contract..I wouldn't be very agreeable to any more signing bonus money.

 

He is unhappy with his pay schedule. I would keep it at that. No mention of being unhappy with his signing bonus was made.

As far as I've seen, that's all he's asking for, and the Browns are offering him nothing.

 

As for the precedent, how about the precedent of making promises to your players, backing out of them, and then denying they were ever made? It's possible that Cribbs is the one lying, but it would be a pretty elaborate set-up considering how consistent his comments have been since Hester got his deal.

[hammertime]

For the nth time, we arent talking about committing to him financially and then seeing him not make an impact. We are talking about adding incentives to his contract that would kick in IF he became more of a full-time player. Does anyone have a problem with this or are we going to just keep opposing fictional demands for guaranteed money?

 

He says Lerner called him on the phone. Lerner said he didnt call him on the phone. We arent talking about a misunderstanding. This is whether or not he ever got a phone call. I'm not a rocket scientist either, but I can usually tell who I'm talking to. Cribbs' agents also say that they have cell records to back him up and that he made several calls right after getting off the phone with Lerner to let his agents and financial people know that Lerner had made promises to him.

 

You can add incentives, I call Lerner and had it approved. I have cell phone records to prove it.

[Guest ATENEARS]

He's a dime-a-dozen, have we released him yet?