3 year plan

[Browns149]

Will Jimmy let it get that far?

It's going to be another 12+ loss season. They are heading for 2-14

Will Hue want to stick around?

 

 

[Dutch Oven]

I sincerely hope that Haslam sticks with the plan. This team started last year pretty much like an expansion team with Joe Thomas.

But nothing Haslam has done since he bought the team indicates he will do so.

[Tacosman]

three year  plan?  When do we get to keep deciding when the 'new plan' starts and stops?  thats not the way this works...obviously if hue wins 3 games or less he is fired..coaches never get brought back going 4-28 over 32 games.

[Ghoolie]

Good God this is an idiotic discussion.

The organization is 1-18....... How can you talk about 2 more year of this shit? What the fuck is wrong with you people?

There is not one single area on this team that is promising or improved. The penalties, dropped passes, turnovers  lack of playmakers and poor game decisions are no better.

What the fuck do you see improving that you are willing to watch more of this shot.

[wargograw]

They better bring him back. 

[flyingfooldoug]

With all the draft picks they've had, you can't help but wonder....Why no playmakers?  Haven't seen flashes of one either.  

[Dutch Oven]

5 hours ago, flyingfooldoug said:

With all the draft picks they've had, you can't help but wonder....Why no playmakers?  Haven't seen flashes of one either.  

Considering all the picks they had in the '16 Draft, I'm underwhelmed.

From this year's draft, I've seen flashes from Njoku. Peppers is stationed in another zip code at safety, returning kickoffs is a nonentity anymore, and there's been a lot of fair catches in the punt return game. Garrett hasn't played yet.

[flyingfooldoug]

I am rapidly reaching the conclusion that this whole Shit show has it's roots in analytics. At least the anal part. I'm seeing different kinds of shit. 1-18 is new. Oh well, different year, same record.

[dawg2fan]

11 hours ago, Tacosman said:

three year  plan?  When do we get to keep deciding when the 'new plan' starts and stops?  thats not the way this works...obviously if hue wins 3 games or less he is fired..coaches never get brought back going 4-28 over 32 games.

But it has to start now!!!!  He's only been here 1 year and 3 games.  We will never get to where the Steelers are by firing our HCs after 1 or 2 years.  I fully expects/hopes that he Keeps Hue.  I'm sorry, but it starts now with giving a coach time.  

[dawg2fan]

7 hours ago, flyingfooldoug said:

With all the draft picks they've had, you can't help but wonder....Why no playmakers?  Haven't seen flashes of one either.  

Next season we draft the top WR and CBs.  We'll be going into our third years and the team will look complete different.  

[The Gipper]

13 hours ago, Ghoolie said:

Good God this is an idiotic discussion.

Particularly when you contribute.

The organization is 1-18....... How can you talk about 2 more year of this shit? What the fuck is wrong with you people?

A....we have NO choice or say so in the matter, now do we?  B. It won't actually come to that anyway.

There is not one single area on this team that is promising or improved. The penalties, dropped passes, turnovers  lack of playmakers and poor game decisions are no better.

No one would actually expect you to pay any attention to what is or is not happening with this team. You just want to play fantasy fucked up football in between your ears.

What the fuck do you see improving that you are willing to watch more of this shot.

This defense will start to play better.  The rookie QB will begin to learn and to play better. The OL and run game will get untracked (it would help if they actually get a lead in the game).  The WRs?  Not sure.   Leslie may be a go to guy.

 

[The Gipper]

4 hours ago, flyingfooldoug said:

I am rapidly reaching the conclusion that this whole Shit show has it's roots in analytics. At least the anal part. I'm seeing different kinds of shit. 1-18 is new. Oh well, different year, same record.

But, FYI....the Patriots 5 Championships also have their roots in analytics.  Yes, it does.  So that, in and of itself is no excuse.

What Belichick hinted at, is that the Patriots  use analytics. Belichick doesn’t talk about it publicly because he never gives any strategies away publicly, but he has long relied on analytics. One of his most trusted advisors is Ernie Adams, the Patriots’ football research director, who was a municipal bonds trader before he worked for Belichick, first in Cleveland and then in New England. Many of the methods that sports statistical analysts use are rooted in the same methods used to analyze economic data. Adams understands both, and that makes him valuable to Belichick.

Looking at Belichick’s strategies, it’s clear that he thinks along the same lines as the analytics people. In the NFL draft, Belichick prefers trading down to trading up, and he particularly likes to trade a pick this year for a higher pick next year. That suggests that he’s studied the economic phenomenon of hyperbolic discounting.

On the sideline, the most controversial call of Belichick’s career appeared to be influenced by analytics: When Belichick went for it on fourth-and-2 from his own 28-yard line in a 2009 game against the Colts, it was the analytics people who said he had made the mathematically correct decision, while most football fans and media members thought Belichick had lost his mind.

That approach to analytics goes to the very top of the organization. The Patriots’ official website wrote this year that “You may not find a bigger believer in data and analytics than New England Patriots Owner Robert Kraft.”

So if the Patriots use analytics, why is Belichick so insistent that he doesn’t give a damn about analytics websites? The first answer is obvious: Belichick never gives anything away. He doesn’t want other teams to know the types of data the Patriots track.

But the other answer may be more important: Belichick was specifically asked about websites that track how quickly a quarterback releases the football, and Belichick has always been particularly skeptical about anyone who tries to analyze the game on the field without knowing the play that was called. Belichick added in his answer that “As far as a quarterback goes, read the coverage, throw the ball to the open receiver and take the best matchup. . . . The quarterback’s got to read the coverage, make the right decision and make an accurate throw.” Belichick’s view is that if you don’t know what play the Patriots called, you can’t accurately assess whether Tom Brady correctly read through his progressions and threw to the receiver with the best matchup.

[Tour2ma]

15 hours ago, Dutch Oven said:

I sincerely hope that Haslam sticks with the plan. This team started last year pretty much like an expansion team with Joe Thomas.

But nothing Haslam has done since he bought the team indicates he will do so.

Disagree... the fact that he did what he did his first years of ownership and they produced no sustainable results us exactly what guarantees a different approach, i.e., Hue gets a year three.

11 hours ago, flyingfooldoug said:

With all the draft picks they've had, you can't help but wonder....Why no playmakers?  Haven't seen flashes of one either.  

When you build a house do you frame it first or pour concrete?

d2f nailed it... WRs and RBs are among the easiest pieces to add, either thru the draft or FA.

[Hempman]

I don't view Hue/FO connected at all. If he can't win games, he is gonzo after this year. Then a stat headed coach will be brought in.

[flyingfooldoug]

22 minutes ago, Tour2ma said:

Disagree... the fact that he did what he did his first years of ownership and they produced no sustainable results us exactly what guarantees a different approach, i.e., Hue gets a year three.

When you build a house do you frame it first or pour concrete?

d2f nailed it... WRs and RBs are among the easiest pieces to add, either thru the draft or FA.

I agree with the basic premise except that I seem to recall drafting 4 WRs last year and now we have problems at WR.  The talent selection has been nothing but horrid. Sure you gotta have a framework first. I agree. Problem is that it certainly does seem like it's the termites in charge of building the frame. Looking shaky to me.

[Ghoolie]

2 hours ago, The Gipper said:

 

ALL BULLSHIT.................... THe D will play better,  Kizer will play better............................... WOW...............you really showed me some great understanding of football.

Here I am dead on prediction after prediction...................... and here you are.................making up fantasy bullshit about how things WILL get better.

Will the Browns win 6 games? WIll they Beat the Bengals? Or that " will" get better means  a 28 year window? This fucking team is shit.

[The Gipper]

9 minutes ago, Ghoolie said:

ALL BULLSHIT.................... THe D will play better,  Kizer will play better............................... WOW...............you really showed me some great understanding of football.

Which is more than can be said for you, Dude.

Here I am dead on prediction after prediction...................... and here you are.................making up fantasy bullshit about how things WILL get better.

You should have stopped after the first 4 words of this sentence.

Will the Browns win 6 games? WIll they Beat the Bengals? Or that " will" get better means  a 28 year window? This fucking team is shit.

I don't make predictions.  Hell...I won't even predict that you will continue to be a dick....and most people would think that would be an easy one!

 

[hoorta]

12 minutes ago, The Gipper said:

23 minutes ago, Ghoolie said:

ALL BULLSHIT.................... THe D will play better,  Kizer will play better............................... WOW...............you really showed me some great understanding of football.

Which is more than can be said for you, Dude.

Here I am dead on prediction after prediction...................... and here you are.................making up fantasy bullshit about how things WILL get better.

You should have stopped after the first 4 words of this sentence.

Will the Browns win 6 games? WIll they Beat the Bengals? Or that " will" get better means  a 28 year window? This fucking team is shit.

I don't make predictions.  Hell...I won't even predict that you will continue to be a dick....and most people would think that would be an easy one!

Ghoolie also predicted Hue was going to get fired last year. (wrong). The Bengals will go 11-5 this year. (They only need to go 11-2 to make that happen, I got $100 that says he's wrong again.) Paxton Lynch is going to be the bomb, Kizer and Garrett are going to be busts. Betting he's wrong on at least 2 out of 3 there. 

[Tour2ma]

1 hour ago, flyingfooldoug said:

I agree with the basic premise except that I seem to recall drafting 4 WRs last year and now we have problems at WR.  The talent selection has been nothing but horrid. Sure you gotta have a framework first. I agree. Problem is that it certainly does seem like it's the termites in charge of building the frame. Looking shaky to me.

Not much of a resume at WR to be sure, but beyond that the talent selection has been pretty damn good, IMO.

Specific to WR... as I just posted elsewhere Coleman has been a hard luck story, but he's arguably a good pick. The rest of our 2016 WR class... not much to show, but a wide net was cast to try to improve the odds of landing some help... a sign of a staff that was not yet settled under new management, i.e., Sashi. 

If you look thru the WR Class of 2016 it's not exactly a great one. In hindsight there were better picks? Yes. Aren't there always? Which were on your list prior to the draft?

Here's the list... http://insider.espn.com/nfl/draft/positions/_/id/1/year/2016

1 hour ago, Hempman said:

I don't view Hue/FO connected at all. If he can't win games, he is gonzo after this year. Then a stat headed coach will be brought in.

Can't go as far as "at all", but I'll grant you that there is distinction between them.

Sashi is Jimmah's guy. But Hue is Sashi's and Jimmah's guy... and probably Dee's to an extent as well. Since Sashi was made GM and Dee became active, the collective mantra has been "patience". I think this buys Hue at least a start of a year three with Williams on standby.

Now... should Williams get in the running for a HC job somewhere else this off-season? Then things might get more interesting.

[MLD Woody]

We'd be fools to explode the whole thing again this offseason

[Canton Dawg]

5 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

WRs and RBs are among the easiest pieces to add, either thru the draft or FA.

This was the topic of conversation on the local sports radio today.

The Browns FO drafted 5 WRs last year, and still had to go sign Britt.

That is a huge indictment of their ability to evaluate talent.

If I was Jimmah, I would have my crosshairs on shitcanning the personnel department.

With as many draft picks as the Browns have had over the past 5 years, the talent cupboards are still pretty bare.

[The Gipper]

8 minutes ago, Canton Dawg said:

This was the topic of conversation on the local sports radio today.

The Browns FO drafted 5 WRs last year, and still had to go sign Britt.

That is a huge indictment of their ability to evaluate talent.

If I was Jimmah, I would have my crosshairs on shitcanning the personnel department.

With as many draft picks as the Browns have had over the past 5 years, the talent cupboards are still pretty bare.

I remember when the Browns had issues along these lines in the 80s...and they brought in Paul Warfield to specifically scout and make a recommendation  on a wider receiver.  And he came up with a pretty good one:  Webster Slaughter.

What is Paul Warfield doing these days?     Or someone like him who knows receivers.

[gumby73]

Starting to think the Wentz trade was enough in 2016 to establish our draft capital.(very empty cabinets back then though) Problem is we traded down 5 more times in 2016 Draft. Passing on much needed better talent(maybe) from #8 to #15 is really my killer)..in 2017 Draft we traded down once (collecting a 1st) & up 3 times for Njoku,H.Wilson & Rod Johnson (hope for 2 out of 3 ain't bad)..

[Tour2ma]

5 hours ago, Canton Dawg said:

This was the topic of conversation on the local sports radio today. The Browns FO drafted 5 WRs last year, and still had to go sign Britt.

That is a huge indictment of their ability to evaluate talent. If I was Jimmah, I would have my crosshairs on shitcanning the personnel department.

With as many draft picks as the Browns have had over the past 5 years, the talent cupboards are still pretty bare.

I completely disagree with your action plan. When was the last time you looked at our past two drafts?

Year	Rnd		Pick	Pos	To	AP1	PB	St	CarAV	G	Cmp	Att	Yds	TD	Int	Att	Yds	TD	Rec	Yds	TD	Int	Sk	College/Univ
2017	1	Myles Garrett	1	DE		0	0	0																Texas A&M
2017	1	Jabrill Peppers	25	S	2017	0	0	0	0	3														Michigan
2017	1	David Njoku	29	TE	2017	0	0	0	0	3									7	59	2			Miami (FL)
2017	2	DeShone Kizer	52	QB	2017	0	0	0	0	3	57	108	646	3	7	17	87	2						Notre Dame
2017	3	Larry Ogunjobi	65	DT	2017	0	0	0	0	3														Charlotte
2017	4	Howard Wilson	126	CB		0	0	0																Houston
2017	5	Roderick Johnson	160	T		0	0	0																Florida St.
2017	6	Caleb Brantley	185	DT	2017	0	0	0	0	1														Florida
2017	7	Zane Gonzalez	224	K	2017	0	0	0	0	3														Arizona St.
2017	7	Matthew Dayes	252	RB	2017	0	0	0	0	3						3	7	0	2	9	0			North Carolina St.
Year	Rnd	Player	Pick	Pos	To	AP1	PB	St	CarAV	G	Cmp	Att	Yds	TD	Int	Att	Yds	TD	Rec	Yds	TD	Int	Sk	College/Univ
2016	1	Corey Coleman	15	WR	2017	0	0	1	3	12						2	10	0	39	475	4			Baylor
2016	2	Emmanuel Ogbah	32	DE	2017	0	0	1	7	19													6.5	Oklahoma St.
2016	3	Carl Nassib	65	DE	2017	0	0	0	2	17													3.5	Penn St.
2016	3	Shon Coleman	76	T	2017	0	0	0	0	10														Auburn
2016	3	Cody Kessler	93	QB	2016	0	0	1	3	9	128	195	1380	6	2	11	18	0						USC
2016	4	Joe Schobert	99	OLB	2017	0	0	0	2	19													1.0	Wisconsin
2016	4	Ricardo Louis	114	WR	2017	0	0	0	1	19									23	274	0			Auburn
2016	4	Derrick Kindred	129	FS	2017	0	0	0	2	15												1		TCU
2016	4	Seth Devalve	138	TE	2017	0	0	0	1	15									18	259	2			Princeton
2016	5	Jordan Payton	154	WR	2016	0	0	0	0	4									1	3	0			UCLA
2016	5	Spencer Drango	168	G	2017	0	0	1	4	19														Baylor
2016	5	Rashard Higgins	172	WR	2017	0	0	0	0	18						1	4	0	15	182	0			Colorado St.
2016	5	Trey Caldwell	173	DB	2016	0	0	0	0	1														La-Monroe
2016	7	Scooby Wright	250	ILB	2016	0	0	0	0	3														Arizona

 

There's nine starters in that list... nine plus a Kicker. Two are injured including one of those "5 WRs". Another of those "5" is a starting TE who played WR at Princeton. Might be ten starters if Wilson was healthy. Nearly half of the team, the very young team, we are putting on the field.

So the other three WRs: Louis (R4), Payton (R5) and Higgins (R5)... you really want to turnover the FO  for pehaps missing on a 4th and two 5ths? Really? Out of the weak 2016 WR class we tabbed an injured, but talented, 1st rounder plus three Day 3 guys who all may miss and you want to turnover the FO?

Here's the 2016 WR Class... throw your hindsight on this beauty and see who we missed... there ain't many. http://insider.espn.com/nfl/draft/positions/_/id/1/year/2016

And then there's Britt... Had Pryor signed for what he is worth, we wouldn't have Britt. Of course, we'd be bitching about Pryor who is still at least three limbs short of a route tree. But he didn't sign with us for what he was worth and we had to turn to the FA market. So we only managed to attract a vet WR coming off a career year to our Mecca of a FA destination (#sarcasm) probably only because a DC who knew him preceded him to CLE.

 

I know it ain't easy, but chill... give the crew their third year. Personally I'll give them five, but we can start that discussion next year after they are back.

 

 

 

[The Gipper]

7 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

I completely disagree with your action plan. When was the last time you looked at our past two drafts?

Year	Rnd		Pick	Pos	To	AP1	PB	St	CarAV	G	Cmp	Att	Yds	TD	Int	Att	Yds	TD	Rec	Yds	TD	Int	Sk	College/Univ
2017	1	Myles Garrett	1	DE		0	0	0																Texas A&M
2017	1	Jabrill Peppers	25	S	2017	0	0	0	0	3														Michigan
2017	1	David Njoku	29	TE	2017	0	0	0	0	3									7	59	2			Miami (FL)
2017	2	DeShone Kizer	52	QB	2017	0	0	0	0	3	57	108	646	3	7	17	87	2						Notre Dame
2017	3	Larry Ogunjobi	65	DT	2017	0	0	0	0	3														Charlotte
2017	4	Howard Wilson	126	CB		0	0	0																Houston
2017	5	Roderick Johnson	160	T		0	0	0																Florida St.
2017	6	Caleb Brantley	185	DT	2017	0	0	0	0	1														Florida
2017	7	Zane Gonzalez	224	K	2017	0	0	0	0	3														Arizona St.
2017	7	Matthew Dayes	252	RB	2017	0	0	0	0	3						3	7	0	2	9	0			North Carolina St.
Year	Rnd	Player	Pick	Pos	To	AP1	PB	St	CarAV	G	Cmp	Att	Yds	TD	Int	Att	Yds	TD	Rec	Yds	TD	Int	Sk	College/Univ
2016	1	Corey Coleman	15	WR	2017	0	0	1	3	12						2	10	0	39	475	4			Baylor
2016	2	Emmanuel Ogbah	32	DE	2017	0	0	1	7	19													6.5	Oklahoma St.
2016	3	Carl Nassib	65	DE	2017	0	0	0	2	17													3.5	Penn St.
2016	3	Shon Coleman	76	T	2017	0	0	0	0	10														Auburn
2016	3	Cody Kessler	93	QB	2016	0	0	1	3	9	128	195	1380	6	2	11	18	0						USC
2016	4	Joe Schobert	99	OLB	2017	0	0	0	2	19													1.0	Wisconsin
2016	4	Ricardo Louis	114	WR	2017	0	0	0	1	19									23	274	0			Auburn
2016	4	Derrick Kindred	129	FS	2017	0	0	0	2	15												1		TCU
2016	4	Seth Devalve	138	TE	2017	0	0	0	1	15									18	259	2			Princeton
2016	5	Jordan Payton	154	WR	2016	0	0	0	0	4									1	3	0			UCLA
2016	5	Spencer Drango	168	G	2017	0	0	1	4	19														Baylor
2016	5	Rashard Higgins	172	WR	2017	0	0	0	0	18						1	4	0	15	182	0			Colorado St.
2016	5	Trey Caldwell	173	DB	2016	0	0	0	0	1														La-Monroe
2016	7	Scooby Wright	250	ILB	2016	0	0	0	0	3														Arizona

 

There's nine starters in that list... nine plus a Kicker. Two are injured including one of those "5 WRs". Another of those "5" is a starting TE who played WR at Princeton. Might be ten starters if Wilson was healthy. Nearly half of the team, the very young team, we are putting on the field.

So the other three WRs: Louis (R4), Payton (R5) and Higgins (R5)... you really want to turnover the FO  for pehaps missing on a 4th and two 5ths? Really? Out of the weak 2016 WR class we tabbed an injured, but talented, 1st rounder plus three Day 3 guys who all may miss and you want to turnover the FO?

Here's the 2016 WR Class... throw your hindsight on this beauty and see who we missed... there ain't many. http://insider.espn.com/nfl/draft/positions/_/id/1/year/2016

And then there's Britt... Had Pryor signed for what he is worth, we wouldn't have Britt. Of course, we'd be bitching about Pryor who is still at least three limbs short of a route tree. But he didn't sign with us for what he was worth and we had to turn to the FA market. So we only managed to attract a vet WR coming off a career year to our Mecca of a FA destination (#sarcasm) probably only because a DC who knew him preceded him to CLE.

 

I know it ain't easy, but chill... give the crew their third year. Personally I'll give them five, but we can start that discussion next year after they are back.

 

 

 

I think a number of these players may start to pay dividends as early as around the middle of this season.

[TexasAg1969]

46 minutes ago, The Gipper said:

I think a number of these players may start to pay dividends as early as around the middle of this season.

I want to see how this team operates with everyone at 100% both sides of the ball. A defense that improves with Garrett and Collins in full form and a rookie QB that learns from mistakes and works on weaknesses could very well be the difference between winning and losing.

[The Gipper]

12 minutes ago, TexasAg1969 said:

I want to see how this team operates with everyone at 100% both sides of the ball. A defense that improves with Garrett and Collins in full form and a rookie QB that learns from mistakes and works on weaknesses could very well be the difference between winning and losing.

And see how they play with an actual lead at some point....where they should be better at running the ball.  I don't know, however, if there is anything that can be done with this receiving corps....unless the signings of Coates, Williams, and Leslie begin to pay dividends.

[Westside Steve]

Sounds great! So when do the three years actually begin?

WSS

[Canton Dawg]

34 minutes ago, Westside Steve said:

Sounds great! So when do the three years actually begin?

WSS

5 years ago!

[Clevfan4life]

If we keep foring coaches after only 1-2 years, we will be a 1-2 win team indefinitely. Is that what u guys want?