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Start Kizer


Zombo
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I was on board with Hogan for a week. Kizer's mistakes were snowballing and causing us to lose games. Hogan seemed more prepared and brought energy to the offense.

OK, now we've see him start an NFL game. There is a lot of things you shouldn't judge after one game. There is one thing that doesn't change: He doesn't have the arm of an NFL starter. And that's not going to change. Certainly not this year.

Kizer does. He has a whip.

All of his mistakes are coachable. So fucking coach him.

He's had a game and a half to watch from the sidelines. Put him back in there now while he can apply that to what he is doing on the field.

Hogan could be a super sub with a long term future as a backup. But he is not the future starter for this team. Kizer might be. get him back in there and find out. My guess is his stats after the benching will be much better than his stats before ... and we may even win a couple games and get something rolling with him.

If not, we've got lots of young backup QBs and the ability to take any QB we want this year.

Play the guy with the NFL arm and see if you can turn him into something. that's really all you can do this year.

Zombo

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Pretty much right where I was and am now. I don't need more than Hogan's 1 start to see that he just didn't pass the eye test and likely never will.... Kizer is this team's future, or so they say anyway, and at this point I guess you just put him in there, go 0-16 and evaluate after the perfect season is over....... then sign a new QB and rinse and repeat. 

 

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3 minutes ago, thomam3 said:

So we know precisely who Kevin Hogan is after 1 start but we don't know who Kizer is precisely after 5?? Yeah. Don't make sense. Start Hogan for 4 more.

If Hogan proves to play better let him finish the season. If not let kizer finish. 

We know Kevin Hogan doesn't have enough arm to throw an NFL out or an accurate deepball. Kizer's deficiencies are coachable. Hogan's arm isn't getting stronger. 

Why are you making me repeat myself, Retard?

Zombo

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haha. Retard? Damn not only is the team dysfunctional, the fans are too. So angry. No need for the name calling. 

Big arms smig arms. A big arm with no other skills doesn't help. Can those be developed? perhaps but I think we are tired of waiting on development. Hogan should truly get at least one more start. If it's as bad as it was yesterday then let whatever roll.

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21 minutes ago, thomam3 said:

haha. Retard? Damn not only is the team dysfunctional, the fans are too. So angry. No need for the name calling. 

Big arms smig arms. A big arm with no other skills doesn't help. Can those be developed? perhaps but I think we are tired of waiting on development. Hogan should truly get at least one more start. If it's as bad as it was yesterday then let whatever roll.

He's got no arm, man. Are we just going to pretend?

Zombo

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The problem is Hue has to start Hogan at least a few more games or he would look even more incompetent than he does now. At this point, Hogan might as well get the next two weeks before the bye as a tryout, but if he looks as bad as he did yesterday, go back to Kizer.

I don't disagree with you guys though. Let us not forget that Hogan is a 2nd year player in this system and looked like a green as hell rookie. I understand it was his first start by definition, but he's far from the green rook that Kizer is. The fact that Hogan in many ways looked worse than Kizer doesn't bode well. At least if anything it shows that unless Kizer shows some crazy progress, we need a QB. There's no debate against it.

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I was anxious and optimistic about Hogan, but it's pretty clear that he lacks arm strength, and can't make the throws needed for this offensive play calling. Play calling which is questionable. You can't calling long passes on almost every down...WTF? Hue is in his own little world. Kizer has yet to prove that he can make those throws, too. His arm is strong enough....just not accurate. Not to mention, he can't make quick decisions or read defenses. Maybe he can change, but I doubt it. I did see a qb capable of all that yesterday, though. Too bad we passed on him in the draft.

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If we had a good staff, we'd have a veteran like McCown or Osweiler to hold it down until the rookie was ready.  

Instead we have 3 shitty qbs with almost no experience and zero wins in the NFL. And then we're asking them to throw it 50+ times a game. 

Planning to fail.  

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3 hours ago, Zombo said:

I was on board with Hogan for a week. Kizer's mistakes were snowballing and causing us to lose games. Hogan seemed more prepared and brought energy to the offense.

OK, now we've see him start an NFL game. There is a lot of things you shouldn't judge after one game. There is one thing that doesn't change: He doesn't have the arm of an NFL starter. And that's not going to change. Certainly not this year.

Kizer does. He has a whip.

All of his mistakes are coachable. So Shmucking coach him.

He's had a game and a half to watch from the sidelines. Put him back in there now while he can apply that to what he is doing on the field.

Hogan could be a super sub with a long term future as a backup. But he is not the future starter for this team. Kizer might be. get him back in there and find out. My guess is his stats after the benching will be much better than his stats before ... and we may even win a couple games and get something rolling with him.

If not, we've got lots of young backup QBs and the ability to take any QB we want this year.

Play the guy with the NFL arm and see if you can turn him into something. that's really all you can do this year.

Zombo

 

I wasn't on board with Hogan, he was what we thought he was: a backup with a weak arm who looked good because no one had game planned for him. Start the kid again so we can determine if he's a viable starter and if he isn't draft another QB next spring if necessary.

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17 hours ago, MDDawg said:

I wasn't on board with Hogan, he was what we thought he was: a backup with a weak arm who looked good because no one had game planned for him. Start the kid again so we can determine if he's a viable starter and if he isn't draft another QB next spring if necessary.

And while I was on board I have sorely disappointed. I don't really have a lot of Hope for Kizer but I'm afraid that the man love that either Sashi brown or Hue Jackson have for him will make them skip a blue chip prospect in 18.

Hopefully it's just the practice of a head coach not bad-mouthing the guy he has.

 

WSS

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I was all for Hogan starting the game, and I still believe it was a move Hue had to make.  Virtually every time Hogan came into the game, he made an immediate impact, and I want to say he was responsible for 4 of our 10 TDs.  He spread the ball around, he made quicker decisions, and the offense absolutely “looked” better.  It’s difficult to deny that.  Even so, I predicted Hogan would have an up and down day…something like 21-35 for 221 yards, 1 passing TD, 1 INT, and one rushing TD.  I thought our RB’s would add another TD, and I believe the final score I predicted was 33-21. 

Obviously, I was nowhere near correct with Hogan’s stats, and he was an absolute disaster.  Hue has no choice but to go back to Kizer, and hope to all heck his head isn’t screwed up.  When (or IF) we get to the red zone, don’t be surprised if you see a BUNCH of running plays (no more option, thank you very little), and then an EXTREMELY safe passing play on 3rd down.  Probably either some failed WR screen, RB flare pass, or fade route to Britt (that Kizer will probably throw with very little touch).  The issue with playing it “safe” in the red zone (other than not scoring TOUCHDOWNS) is we don’t have a reliable FG kicker.  Hopefully Zane can pull it together, and it was nice to see him connect last game, but we’re going to see most of our drives in the red zone stall because Hue can’t trust Kizer with the ball, and we’re going to be stalling out as we approach the goal line.  I mean, you really can’t BLAME Hue.  You really think we’re going to be executing an over-the-middle route in the end zone?  Uh…no. 

I think we have to hope for incremental gains from Kizer.  Not turning it over, not turning it over IN THE RED ZONE, making accurate passes, knowing when to throw it away, knowing when to run with it, and just trying to piece together SOME scoring drives.  I think it’s going to be painful.  I just hope Kizer starts trending the right way, instead of completely falling apart. 

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Honestly, I am surprised that Kessler hasn't started or at least played a series.. Dude was our starter last year and kept us in some close games..

 

I was on the let-Kizer-ride-the-bench bandwagon, but after the duds that Hogan threw up, might as well let the rook ride it out..

He's got a good arm, he's led some good drives. They just can't seem to punch it in down in the redzone..

And FFS, will Goodell resinstate Gordon already? 

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28 minutes ago, Westside Steve said:

Kind of in the defense of either quarterback who calls these plays?

Also now that size and arm strength are the most important factors, and coaching is the key, tell me again why we hate Brandon Weeden and DA.

WSS

Don't hate DA, I actually thought we could win games with him. He isn't in his 12th NFL season cashing checks over $2 mil a year because he is useless.

Weeden made the same mistakes over and over, if Kizer is still doing that when he is 31, ten years from now, we should certainly cut him too.

Not sure why people defend lack of arm strength. Hogan can't throw an NFL Out. All of the top QBs do it all the time. Why would you want to settle for less rather than try to develop the guy that has the actual tools?

Zombo

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I figure you are a rookie, an inexperienced rookie, if you start the NFL when you are 21 or 28.  In different situations we pimp brains versus physical attributes depending who our chosen guy is.

If we should have kept da for 12 years spent the time draft picks and energy into putting a good team on the field. I think we'd be better off today.

 

WSS

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49 minutes ago, Zombo said:

Don't hate DA, I actually thought we could win games with him. He isn't in his 12th NFL season cashing checks over $2 mil a year because he is useless.

Weeden made the same mistakes over and over, if Kizer is still doing that when he is 31, ten years from now, we should certainly cut him too.

Not sure why people defend lack of arm strength. Hogan can't throw an NFL Out. All of the top QBs do it all the time. Why would you want to settle for less rather than try to develop the guy that has the actual tools?

Zombo

Yea, the problem is that this coaching staff is having Kizer throw a 30 yard out on first and goal from the 2. 

Kizer has his rookie yips....but Hue is doing a piss poor job of bringing him along and seems to be hanging him out to dry a lot with his play calling.  As much as the players on this team are sucking it up...the play calling is right in there circling the drain with him.  The Jets game was won with just a few less stupid play calls.

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30 minutes ago, Westside Steve said:

If we should have kept da for 12 years spent the time draft picks and energy into putting a good team on the field. I think we'd be better off today.

WSS

Absolutely. He went 11-5 as a first year starter, then down hill after that as the team regressed with him. But if you gave him a top defense, a go to #1 WR, blocking and a running game you wouldn't be having 3-13, 1-15, 0-6 ... that is without question. He is 20-24 as a starter in his career since 2007, on a mix of teams, mostly poor teams like Browns and Cards that he was on ... so, you figure he is a.500 qb on a good team and a winning qb on a very talented team.

But the question is ... what do we do NOW?

1. Play inexperienced QB that was cut last year, was fourth on the depth chart going into this year, worked his way up the depth chart, threw three bad INTs in the first half of his first start and demonstrated that he clearly does not have a big time arm?

2. Play inexperienced QB that was drafted this year in the second round, lacks polish and keeps making mistakes, but has the ability to grow into a top NFL skillset?

3. Play inexperienced QB that was drafted in third round last year, went 0-8, played accurately, also lacks arm strength, did not progress in the offseason and dropped from 1st to third on depth chart with inferior play to the other candidates in preseason and camp?

DA is not walking through that door. Either is Romo, Tebow, Favre, Kaepernick, Kosar or Sipe. We need to play one of these guys. I'm going with #2.

Zombo

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15 minutes ago, Zombo said:

Absolutely. He went 11-5 as a first year starter, then down hill after that as the team regressed with him. But if you gave him a top defense, a go to #1 WR, blocking and a running game you wouldn't be having 3-13, 1-15, 0-6 ... that is without question. He is 20-24 as a starter in his career since 2007, on a mix of teams, mostly poor teams like Browns and Cards that he was on ... so, you figure he is a.500 qb on a good team and a winning qb on a very talented team.

But the question is ... what do we do NOW?

1. Play inexperienced QB that was cut last year, was fourth on the depth chart going into this year, worked his way up the depth chart, threw three bad INTs in the first half of his first start and demonstrated that he clearly does not have a big time arm?

2. Play inexperienced QB that was drafted this year in the second round, lacks polish and keeps making mistakes, but has the ability to grow into a top NFL skillset?

3. Play inexperienced QB that was drafted in third round last year, went 0-8, played accurately, also lacks arm strength, did not progress in the offseason and dropped from 1st to third on depth chart with inferior play to the other candidates in preseason and camp?

DA is not walking through that door. Either is Romo, Tebow, Favre, Kaepernick, Kosar or Sipe. We need to play one of these guys. I'm going with #2.

Zombo

Option 4.   Get through this year doing anyone of 1, 2, or 3....then draft another QB in round one next year....and start the dance all over again. 

 

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10 minutes ago, The Gipper said:

Option 4.   Get through this year doing anyone of 1, 2, or 3....then draft another QB in round one next year....and start the dance all over again. 

 

1, 2 or 3 is not an answer.

Someone needs to start against the Titans.

Zombo

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I think number four is probably the way to go, or at least the way we should go.

When we drafted Johnny, despite how that turned out, one of the big bitches was that 21 other teams passed on him. We also hear the old saw find your guy and grab him no matter what the cost. At this stage of the game you are correct, our options are limited by the way things are. Not the way I'd have managed the team but what's done is done. As for options 1, 2 or 3 who cares? You can certainly pile the team's Fortunes in one wagon and hitch them to the fourth quarterback taken and a weak draft. Next year spend that number one pick on some more rolls of the dice after we trade it to somebody who wants the best quarterback available. And give someone else the next Watson Marietta Wentz or whoever.

Then we can let the next coach and general manager worry about it. Yes, we are kind of painted into a corner. 

WSS

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early on, I thought it was HOgan who had a lot more arm than Kessler. But is he an elite prospect at qb?

of course not. But the kid can play. I still say the Browns would have beaten pittpuke the first game with

Hogan starting. The wr's aren't helping anybody who plays at qb, even if Tom Brady was rented to the Browns

for a game - Brady might have had a slightly better qb rating lol

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2017/10/kevin_hogan_on_his_showing_vs.html

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