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Zombo

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23 hours ago, SD_Tom said:

If we had a good staff, we'd have a veteran like McCown or Osweiler to hold it down until the rookie was ready.  

Instead we have 3 shitty qbs with almost no experience and zero wins in the NFL. And then we're asking them to throw it 50+ times a game. 

Planning to fail.  

 

A VETERAN QB DOES NOTHING FOR US.

5 WINS DOES NOTHING FOR US.

POSSIBLY MOVING UP TO THIRD IN THE AFC NORTH FOR A YEAR DOES NOTHING FOR US. 

 

 

I really don't see why that's such a hard concept to grasp. You either have your franchise QB or you're looking for him. There's no inbetween.  

 

 

 

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5 hours ago, Zombo said:

Don't hate DA, I actually thought we could win games with him. He isn't in his 12th NFL season cashing checks over $2 mil a year because he is useless.

Weeden made the same mistakes over and over, if Kizer is still doing that when he is 31, ten years from now, we should certainly cut him too.

Not sure why people defend lack of arm strength. Hogan can't throw an NFL Out. All of the top QBs do it all the time. Why would you want to settle for less rather than try to develop the guy that has the actual tools?

Zombo

Z, no question Kizer has an NFL level arm. My question is will he ever learn to properly use it? Mental guidance system faulty, at least to this point. 

3 hours ago, Westside Steve said:

I think number four is probably the way to go, or at least the way we should go.

When we drafted Johnny, despite how that turned out, one of the big bitches was that 21 other teams passed on him. We also hear the old saw find your guy and grab him no matter what the cost. At this stage of the game you are correct, our options are limited by the way things are. Not the way I'd have managed the team but what's done is done. As for options 1, 2 or 3 who cares? You can certainly pile the team's Fortunes in one wagon and hitch them to the fourth quarterback taken and a weak draft. Next year spend that number one pick on some more rolls of the dice after we trade it to somebody who wants the best quarterback available. And give someone else the next Watson Marietta Wentz or whoever.

Then we can let the next coach and general manager worry about it. Yes, we are kind of painted into a corner. 

WSS

That's my beef Steve- we went shopping in the bargain aisle again. What a great value pick, LOL. I saw enough of Kizer at  Notre Dame I dropped a big F-Bomb when we drafted him. But hey- that smarty pants Harvard brain trust knows more than I do. Or, they saw the same flaws in Deshone's game I did & "The QB Whisperer" told Sashi- "I can fix 'em". RIIIGGGGHHHTTTT... Just like you "fixed" RG III, who IMHO Kizer has more than a passing resemblance to. 

50 minutes ago, Tim Couch Pulls Out said:

A VETERAN QB DOES NOTHING FOR US.

5 WINS DOES NOTHING FOR US.

POSSIBLY MOVING UP TO THIRD IN THE AFC NORTH FOR A YEAR DOES NOTHING FOR US. 

I really don't see why that's such a hard concept to grasp. You either have your franchise QB or you're looking for him. There's no inbetween.  

Now I'm with you TC. We're 0-6 looking at (maybe 2-14) The #1 overall is well within reach again. Lost season before October is over- and frankly, I'm getting damn tired of it. Suckin' for Sam. Or Allen, or Rosen. Guaranteed we'll stink bad enough to get one of the three. We had our chance to take a potential franchise QB twice in the last two years- and settled for more draft picks. Do that again in 2018 and I'll explode. Unless- in the unlikely event Kizer shows faint signs of being an NFL QB. Even if he does, I'm still taking one of the top 3 prospects next year as an insurance policy. 

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22 minutes ago, hoorta said:

Z, no question Kizer has an NFL level arm. My question is will he ever learn to properly use it? Mental guidance system faulty, at least to this point. 

 

Well, do you need answer today? ... Because ... he's 21. Has had 4 and half games in NFL. Soooo ..... Let's play him and find out.

Zombo

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1 hour ago, hoorta said:

Z, no question Kizer has an NFL level arm. My question is will he ever learn to properly use it? Mental guidance system faulty, at least to this point. 

That's my beef Steve- we went shopping in the bargain aisle again. What a great value pick, LOL. I saw enough of Kizer at  Notre Dame I dropped a big F-Bomb when we drafted him. But hey- that smarty pants Harvard brain trust knows more than I do. Or, they saw the same flaws in Deshone's game I did & "The QB Whisperer" told Sashi- "I can fix 'em". RIIIGGGGHHHTTTT... Just like you "fixed" RG III, who IMHO Kizer has more than a passing resemblance to. 

Now I'm with you TC. We're 0-6 looking at (maybe 2-14) The #1 overall is well within reach again. Lost season before October is over- and frankly, I'm getting damn tired of it. Suckin' for Sam. Or Allen, or Rosen. Guaranteed we'll stink bad enough to get one of the three. We had our chance to take a potential franchise QB twice in the last two years- and settled for more draft picks. Do that again in 2018 and I'll explode. Unless- in the unlikely event Kizer shows faint signs of being an NFL QB. Even if he does, I'm still taking one of the top 3 prospects next year as an insurance policy. 

 

I agree wholeheartedly. Unless Kizer is for sure the guy we want to go with, you have to go into 2018 looking for a franchise-level guy. 

I have no qualms with passing on Wentz, Trubisky and Watson (and yeah, I did like all three to varying degrees) to build a foundation of young talent. But that foundation is all for naught if we don't get someone in who can be a difference maker. Say what you will about Kizer but it is pretty apparent we did not go into the draft targeting him to be our QBOTF. He was a nice lottery ticket where he was and we took him with the HOPE that he could become something.

Same way Seattle took Wilson in the second - they weren't aiming on him being the guy, they had just spent money on Matt Flynn and had him pegged as their starter and were hoping Wilson could sit and develop. I wouldn't be so sure we didn't have the same mindset with Osweiler and Kizer, looking back at it.

Only difference is...Kizer hasn't played anywhere close to Wilson yet. 

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8 hours ago, Westside Steve said:

Also now that size and arm strength are the most important factors, and coaching is the key, tell me again why we hate Brandon Weeden and DA.

Wheezy was as dumb as a bag of rocks... a half-full bag at that.

DA was a one read wonder... he got away with that for one season. I wasn't here at the time, but told every Browns fan I met after we signed his a$$ to an extension that we needed to trade he and Edwards coming off their miracle season while their value was maxxed out... Hand to God, it's true.

DA is right where he needs to be... in a backup rolle where he can come off the bench and fool opponents for a game or two at a time. Something BTW he last did in 2014.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/A/AndeDe00/gamelog/

8 hours ago, domcucch1994 said:

Honestly, I am surprised that Kessler hasn't started or at least played a series.. Dude was our starter last year and kept us in some close games..

I was on the let-Kizer-ride-the-bench bandwagon, but after the duds that Hogan threw up, might as well let the rook ride it out. He's got a good arm, he's led some good drives. They just can't seem to punch it in down in the redzone..

The tires went flat on that bandwagon when Kizer quickly learned the Offense in Camp and Kess shat the bed in preseason... and apparently shat it so thoroughly that he wiped any regular season start prospects out completely.

And now Hogan did the same.

Kizer is it by default... and should remain it come what may for the balance of the season.

7 hours ago, The Gipper said:

Yea, the problem is that this coaching staff is having Kizer throw a 30 yard out on first and goal from the 2.

The problem is he is not yet seeing the field as a whole... not taking in image of the defenders relative to his targets... not even in a compressed field where it is even more important, and actually easier, to do so.

The roll-out call was fine.

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7 hours ago, Zombo said:

But the question is ... what do we do NOW?

1. Play inexperienced QB that was cut last year, was fourth on the depth chart going into this year, worked his way up the depth chart, threw three bad INTs in the first half of his first start and demonstrated that he clearly does not have a big time arm?

2. Play inexperienced QB that was drafted this year in the second round, lacks polish and keeps making mistakes, but has the ability to grow into a top NFL skillset?

3. Play inexperienced QB that was drafted in third round last year, went 0-8, played accurately, also lacks arm strength, did not progress in the offseason and dropped from 1st to third on depth chart with inferior play to the other candidates in preseason and camp?

I'm going with #2.

 

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2 hours ago, Zombo said:

Well, do you need answer today? ... Because ... he's 21. Has had 4 and half games in NFL. Soooo ..... Let's play him and find out.

Zombo

LOL Z, we're not going to get an answer "today". I (sort of) explained what I'm thinking. Let me rephrase. The season is in the toilet already, so I don't give a rat WHO starts at QB anymore. Kizer, Kessler, Clipboard Jesus, the Homeless Guy. So sure play Kizer- we can Suck for Sam while we're at it. 

 

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6 hours ago, Westside Steve said:

I think number four is probably the way to go, or at least the way we should go.

When we drafted Johnny, despite how that turned out, one of the big bitches was that 21 other teams passed on him. We also hear the old saw find your guy and grab him no matter what the cost. At this stage of the game you are correct, our options are limited by the way things are. Not the way I'd have managed the team but what's done is done. As for options 1, 2 or 3 who cares? You can certainly pile the team's Fortunes in one wagon and hitch them to the fourth quarterback taken and a weak draft. Next year spend that number one pick on some more rolls of the dice after we trade it to somebody who wants the best quarterback available. And give someone else the next Watson Marietta Wentz or whoever.

Then we can let the next coach and general manager worry about it. Yes, we are kind of painted into a corner.

Only in your mind,Steve... put down the brush... pick up a guitar.

Nothing was "hitched" to anything. Nothing about option 2 for the balance of the season precludes option 4... it only makes #4 a more informed decision.

And being defeatist won't do you or anyone any good... so pick up the guitar... strum a happy tune... 

1 hour ago, Tim Couch Pulls Out said:

Same way Seattle took Wilson in the second - they weren't aiming on him being the guy, they had just spent money on Matt Flynn and had him pegged as their starter and were hoping Wilson could sit and develop. I wouldn't be so sure we didn't have the same mindset with Osweiler and Kizer, looking back at it.

And Philly took Wentz with both Bradford and Chase Daniels on the roster. Think they weren't hedging their bets? The difference between Philly's and our QB trio of Kizer, Brock and Kess, was that the resumes of their hedges were thicker, much, much thicker. Everyone knew a healthy Bradford could play. The incoming HC had Daniels at KC and knew him well enough to bring him along and to a pretty healthy contract IIRC.

 

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15 minutes ago, Tour2ma said:

Only in your mind,Steve... put down the brush... pick up a guitar.

Nothing was "hitched" to anything. Nothing about option 2 for the balance of the season precludes option 4... it only makes #4 a more informed decision.

And being defeatist won't do you or anyone any good... so pick up the guitar... strum a happy tune... 

 

I'll pick up a bottle of wine and sing a happy tune. Tralalalala we suck, we suck, we suck. Happy, happy, joy, joy. Nah, this is my view of the mess we're in Tour. I'm predicting rain again this coming Sunday. Curmudgeon shoulda kept picking against the Browns. That way expecting another loss isn't nearly as painful when they lay another stinker on ya.  :)

 image.jpeg.e123f15639860fcb0b7b22e325b5968b.jpeg

 

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On 10/16/2017 at 12:31 PM, jrb12711 said:

The problem is Hue has to start Hogan at least a few more games or he would look even more incompetent than he does now

Has anyone ever thought that the problem might be HUE Fing Jackson? (whisper...whisper....whisper....)

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I agree with the poster who said winning 4 or 5 games with a veteran really doesn't help us for the future.  As much as I'd LOVE winning that many (how sad IS THAT btw?), it just doesn't help cultivate a winning roster.  The veteran QB would be taking away valuable learning experience from our young QB, and when the veteran finally leaves or is hurt, we're just going to have to suffer through the growing pains ANYWAY, so why not take our lumps now?  I guess the answer might be that winning a few games might keep our team together, and I just know that another total tear-down will cost the Browns thousands of fans.  I can feel that people are on their last bit of hope...and basically it comes down to having better things to do on a Sunday.  

I'll never leave, and I'll always watch...but I wish I had something half-way decent to root for, and it doesn't feel like it's going to be any time soon.   

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