FO you are much too good to us

[Westside Steve]

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2017/10/cleveland_may_not_be_strong_en.html

 

I guess it's the old "this is going to hurt me more than it hurts you" idea.

WSS

[LeBrent]

I think he hit the nail on the head.

It's so easy to criticize a draft with the benefit of hindsight.  It seems like after the last two drafts everyone was celebrating how well the Browns did.  But since we are losing games people go back and say - "we could've drafted THAT guy.  Look how great he is."  But 11 other teams could've drafted Watson.  The Wentz trade STILL has a first and second round pick coming from it.

I think the Sixers are obviously a great parallel.  Hinkie did a better job of convincing people in Philly of his plan than this regime is here.  For like 4 years people outside of Philly just made fun of "the process".  And unfortunately the owner got so embarrassed he hired a "basketball guy" to see the plan through. Who knows if it'll work out.  But Philly fans love that team and Colangelo (who has produced a bunch of mediocre teams in his career) has one of the most hopeful situations in the league.

We have a great cap situation, a TON of draft picks, a ton of young players (who suck at winning as all young players do), and a front office that is confident enough to actually follow through with a REAL long-term plan.  It'd be a shame to hire some "football guy" to come in and blow it up.  

 

[nickers]

In the end.. It boils down to W's... No W's.. No job security... if you could call it that...

[Marc1971]

12 minutes ago, nickers said:

In the end.. It boils down to W's... No W's.. No job security... if you could call it that...

Yup. "You are what your record says you are".

[calfoxwc]

actually that is bs. your record says you are completely without talent to be competitive? We've all seen years when the Browns defense was hopeless. They'd get run over like frogs on a highway by offense's running game. Remember the game where Jamal Lewis set a new single game rushing record vs the Browns?

You see that possible now? hell no, you don't. the pass defense needs a bit of fixing...The offense, remember when the oline as a whole got qb's killed with no time to throw? yes, qb,s held onto the ball too long, and wr's didn't get open, ...the offense needs some gamebreaking wr's. Use to be the offense and defense needed a lot of players at different positions.

Close, but no winning cigars. We're a long, long way away from the pitiful football of the past. We have a lot of young talent,but not enough, and Kizer may still be a great qb. Right now, he's a rookie kid with no pro style offense to help him from his college days.

We can stop the run, and often, for negative yards a lot of the time. That is huge. Seems to me we are long one draft and a fa or twofrom going to the playoffs.... if the Browns hadn't traded down, we would still be at least two drafts away. Patience is a virtue, at least patience with where we are NOW.

[Orion]

I read the article.  Now, if you can tell me that their plan is to actually attempt to FIX the QB position at the top of next years draft if DeShone doesn't look like the answer...then fine.  BUT...if you can't guarantee that, then I'd like them booted the hell out of town and someone else who WILL attempt the BIG FIX at QB put in their place.  An NFL team is dog $hit without a good QB.  Our OL is now good enough to protect a good QB.  There's no more excuses (as if phucking up the OL in 2016 and fixing it in 2017 was a viable excuse).

[Orion]

14 minutes ago, calfoxwc said:

remember when the oline as a whole got qb's killed with no time to throw?

Ahh yes.  I remember it well.  I used to call it a footrace between the DLine and the QB as to who could get to the 'drop back and pass' spot on the field first.

Remember the game where Jamal Lewis set a new single game rushing record vs the Browns?

Yup.  Teams didn't even have to pass against us.  I think they only DID pass so as to keep sharp....like at practice or something.

....and just this past week we set ANOTHER team record......most road losses in a row.  

But I hear ya.....we're better at stopping the run in this passing league.....and we're better at protecting our bum QB's.  It's just that we're worse at getting wins.

[The Gipper]

Is it the FO?  Or is it the coaching?

From what I glean, I don't think the talent is really all that bad on this team. I really don't. It is young and inexperienced...and is lacking in a few spots....but overall, I don't see that the Browns talent takes much of a back seat to the rest of the division. 

Pitts has a couple of guys, like AB and BR that are better talents than what we have at those spots....but that is about it.

Baltimore?  Who do they got? Maybe Flacco.

Cincy?  AJ Green and Geno Atkins?

No.....this "plan" could work from the talent acquisition standpoint.....with the addition of some real receivers and a real QB.

But my God, this team plays so poorly with the talent they have.  

Can it actually be that Hue is just this bad of a coach?  Can it be that Ghoolie is right about him.  From the evidence I have seen, that is a big, big part of it.

[calfoxwc]

4 minutes ago, Orion said:

I read the article.  Now, if you can tell me that their plan is to actually attempt to FIX the QB position at the top of next years draft if DeShone doesn't look like the answer...then fine.  BUT...if you can't guarantee that, then I'd like them booted the hell out of town and someone else who WILL attempt the BIG FIX at QB put in their place.  An NFL team is dog $hit without a good QB.  Our OL is now good enough to protect a good QB.  There's no more excuses (as if phucking up the OL in 2016 and fixing it in 2017 was a viable excuse).

firstly, does it need fixed? we don't know yet. Kizer has a huge upside - does he make it? We dont' know yet. Goff didn't impress melast year at all after the draft. The trouble is, even without Kizer, I don't like Darnold or the other guy as our qb. Not impressed.

Darnold seems to not have any better an upside that Kizer has. Regardless, I'll tell you the qb I have my keen eye on for the draft in 2018 =and it isn't Rosen, Allen, Jackson, or Darnold. I would take in the first round.

It's the kid out of Northwestern. Clayton Thorson. I don't care where he's rated in next year's draft - I think he is the one qb I would take in the first round.

You can rate Rosen the #1 qb every day for ten years, I just don't like the guy. He doesn't seem a fit if I'm drafting. Thorson has really led a poorer cast to great games. I love that.

 

[calfoxwc]

3 minutes ago, The Gipper said:

Is it the FO?  Or is it the coaching?

From what I glean, I don't think the talent is really all that bad on this team. I really don't. It is young and inexperienced...and is lacking in a few spots....but overall, I don't see that the Browns talent takes much of a back seat to the rest of the division. 

Pitts has a couple of guys, like AB and BR that are better talents than what we have at those spots....but that is about it.

Baltimore?  Who do they got? Maybe Flacco.

Cincy?  AJ Green and Geno Atkins?

No.....this "plan" could work from the talent acquisition standpoint.....with the addition of some real receivers and a real QB.

But my God, this team plays so poorly with the talent they have.  

Can it actually be that Hue is just this bad of a coach?  Can it be that Ghoolie is right about him.  From the evidence I have seen, that is a big, big part of it.

  I think our coaches are fine - Hue is terrific. However, I think Hue needs to hire an OC and let the OC call the plays. My Wife and I can'

sit there and predict what Hue will call.  Seems that he is trying to protect Kizer by running on first and second down so much, thathe is putting Kizer in trouble on 3rd and longs. He did, finally, surprise me and threw on first down last Sunday.and Hogan was the qb. Now, what the heyl is up with that?

  I will say, that as much as I respect Coleman, he wasn't on my list that draft. Like Canton Mike has told me several times, Michael Thomas was the bigger wr he wanted. Michael Thomas went in the 2nd round. The Browns went with Coleman. Wonder why. Oh,...the Browns had signed RGIII, out of Baylor, earlier that spring. Coincidence? I think not.

In two games, Michael Thomas, with the Saints,  has caught 15 passes for 176 yards and two touchdowns.Did anybody on this board want them to draft the small kid out of Baylor? I don't think so.  If we find out Kizer is only RGIII from another college...well,

Sorry Hue, but it's time to let somebody else pick the qb. Let me pick the next one, or just call me and ask my opinion. I want the kid

out of Northwestern. You heard it here first, on the Brownsboard. and btw, the wr I want in the first round with the other pick?

Sutton. NOT the big high ranked kid out of Notre Dame.

[MLD Woody]

I agree with the author

[Tour2ma]

Had me for the better part of two posts in a row, cal ( anew record)... but sorry, Hue hasn't picked our last two QBs.

What are you seeing in Thorson?

3 hours ago, Orion said:

I read the article.  Now, if you can tell me that their plan is to actually attempt to FIX the QB position at the top of next years draft if DeShone doesn't look like the answer...then fine.  BUT...if you can't guarantee that, then I'd like them booted the hell out of town and someone else who WILL attempt the BIG FIX at QB put in their place.  An NFL team is dog $hit without a good QB.  Our OL is now good enough to protect a good QB.  There's no more excuses (as if phucking up the OL in 2016 and fixing it in 2017 was a viable excuse).

First... we flucked up the OL in 2016? Seems like misplaced blame to me...

We tried the past two drafts... spent a 3rd on Kess and a 2nd on Kizer. Once we get back to seeing what Kizer can be, and we will soon, very soon, then we will know what priority to place on the position come the 2018 draft. That I can guarantee.

Will it be the overall #1? A top 3? Likely as of now... The above pattern would even suggest a progression in that direction, but who knows for certain. We could end up loving a Day 2 guy... I'm getting there myself with one who happens to be a pocket passer. Check this set of 2017 numbers...

						Passing							Rushing
Rk						Cmp	Att	Pct	Yds	TD	Int	Rate	Att	Yds	Avg	TD
	6 Games					158	248	63.7	1680	15	3	138.2	23	-1	0.0	0
1					W	27	39	69.2	262	3	0	151.0	3	-17	-5.7	0
2					L	39	66	59.1	259	1	0	97.1	3	0	0.0	0
3					W	30	40	75.0	455	3	1	190.3	3	10	3.3	0
4					W	19	29	65.5	273	3	0	178.7	3	6	2.0	0
5					W	24	43	55.8	182	3	2	105.1	5	17	3.4	0
6					W	19	31	61.3	249	2	0	150.1	6	-17	-2.8	0

But I am pretty much there with Rosen already... unlike cal I don't find his politics to be a barrier. That said... he just came off his worst showing of the year. Rosen has an irreverence vibe that reminds me of another feisty QB that I loved... Jim McMahon.

[Tour2ma]

3 hours ago, Orion said:

....and just this past week we set ANOTHER team record......most road losses in a row.  

But I hear ya.....we're better at stopping the run in this passing league.....and we're better at protecting our bum QB's.  It's just that we're worse at getting wins.

But not much worse...

And did I mention that records are made to be broken?

[Orion]

6 minutes ago, Tour2ma said:

First... we flucked up the OL in 2016? Seems like misplaced blame to me...

Everyone knew we were losing Mack.  And we saw how putrid Erving was wherever Pettine stuck him, which was admittedly dumb to make the rookie play so many positions.  But allowing Schwartz to walk too was too big of a bite out of our OL.  We had to quickly stick a draft pick in there at RT and put the swinging gate at center (his so-called 'natural' position...of which he played 5 whole games at center in his entire college career).

That's why I say they phucked up the OL.  Now, an argument can be made that they didn't know that Erving would be so bad because they were new to the team....but I would argue that there was a lot of NFL tape on him.  I wasn't on this board in 2015 but on the board I was at, we ALL knew he sucked because we watched the games.....and i'm assuming that you guys here watched the same games that WE did.

[Tour2ma]

Preaching to the choir on Erving, but I have to assume you knew that. And once that experiment was completed Reuter and Fabs did better jobs at Center.

Are we missing Mitch now? Had Shon recouped from his injury and illness sooner that Week 17 last year, we wouldn't have then either. plus it's not as if Paz was a complete failure at RT.

And then our sh!t FO got a 5th for Cam... who is sucking in KC ATM.

[Harry Buffalo]

I'll say my piece and leave it. I think Hue needs to stay, but with an OC to call plays. I get that he is a guy known for creating great offenses, but his biggest strength is motivating and caring for his players. Those are great head coaching strengths and he just needs to focus on being the main guy. In terms of the FO, outside of hiring an actual team president, I don't see how we can change anything. I like most of the talent we have put on the field. I like how we maneuver the draft and some how trade away bad talent  for draft picks. They just need to finally pull the trigger on someone. I'm not going to fault them for not taking a guy who is only showing success running a RGIII style offense. People want to be the hind sight police, but most of the media and most of the people on here applauded both drafts after the fact, most people didn't want to see Watson selected (me included). 

To be quite frank, unless you are hiring a Peyton Manning to take over football operations, I think you need to give these guys 1-2 more years. People forget that Hue was the best coaching candidate available when we hired him. People forget that the two previous times we hired a coach we were stuck with our 5th and 6th best choices. All any coach will look at is Hue being promised that he will get 4 years and see that he got Sheet canned in 2 and they will know that they are better off going else where. The only way to create a stable franchise to to stick with the guys you hire to run it. If they tell you they need 4 years get things turned around, and you hire them after saying they have 4 years, you sure as Sheet better give them the 4 years to get the jobs done. 

[Tour2ma]

1 minute ago, Harry Buffalo said:

To be quite frank, unless you are hiring a Peyton Manning to take over football operations,

Serious question, HB... one I've yet to receive a reply to...

What are P. Manning's qualifications to be a GM?

[BaconHound]

6 minutes ago, Tour2ma said:

Serious question, HB... one I've yet to receive a reply to...

What are P. Manning's qualifications to be a GM?

I think the short, snarky, answer is, same as Elway's

[BaconHound]

The problem that many "Doom & Gloomers" is when you trade your valuable picks to acquire more under the guise of, "hey we got this awesome plan" you can't play the hindsight is 20/20 card.

Garrett and another high pick, Shelton?  Ok, no issue let that play out.

Solid LBers.  Ok I'm on board with this if the 3 week Collins Concussion was nothing but a blip.  The Peppers thing is crazy.  The question I'd ask is, why is Peppers playing out of position and if you are a coach how do you look the other defensive players in the face and say, "dude suck it up I'm p[laying Peppers out of position to see if he might be able to play somewhere else".  I tend to believe someone got a boner over his tape and measurables and thought they could plugged him in anywhere and he'd be successful.  I remember Hue in post draft interviews talking about possibly playing him on offense.  He's what 20th in Kickoff Returns Average and 22nd in Punt Return Average.

O-Line that looks solid.  I agree but still hard to judge with a rookie QB and no "speed talent"

A raw TE?  Hanging your hat on raw TE, c'mon man.

Corey Coleman, that's laughable.

RB, doesn't matter who's back there when you're down 21 with 8 in the box.

QB, with each passing week all the current crop of college QBs look worse and worse.

 

Trust the Process

 

[Canton Dawg]

40 minutes ago, Harry Buffalo said:

I'll say my piece and leave it. I think Hue needs to stay, but with an OC to call plays. I get that he is a guy known for creating great offenses, but his biggest strength is motivating and caring for his players. Those are great head coaching strengths and he just needs to focus on being the main guy. In terms of the FO, outside of hiring an actual team president, I don't see how we can change anything. I like most of the talent we have put on the field. I like how we maneuver the draft and some how trade away bad talent  for draft picks. They just need to finally pull the trigger on someone. I'm not going to fault them for not taking a guy who is only showing success running a RGIII style offense. People want to be the hind sight police, but most of the media and most of the people on here applauded both drafts after the fact, most people didn't want to see Watson selected (me included). 

To be quite frank, unless you are hiring a Peyton Manning to take over football operations, I think you need to give these guys 1-2 more years. People forget that Hue was the best coaching candidate available when we hired him. People forget that the two previous times we hired a coach we were stuck with our 5th and 6th best choices. All any coach will look at is Hue being promised that he will get 4 years and see that he got Sheet canned in 2 and they will know that they are better off going else where. The only way to create a stable franchise to to stick with the guys you hire to run it. If they tell you they need 4 years get things turned around, and you hire them after saying they have 4 years, you sure as Sheet better give them the 4 years to get the jobs done. 

I’m with you on Hue, I would let him stay but he MUST hire an OC.

I like the way the FO can wheel and deal, but they need to hire someone with some NFL experience.

[BaconHound]

13 minutes ago, Canton Dawg said:

I’m with you on Hue, I would let him stay but he MUST hire an OC.

I like the way the FO can wheel and deal, but they need to hire someone with some NFL experience.

The only issue I have with criticizing Hue's play calling is he's got zero talent at QB and WR.  Even more difficult when you find yourself down 14-17 points early.  I've been saying this consistently through Mangini, Shurmur, Chud, Pettine, etc.  You can coach Sheet talent.  Good players make coaches look great.  We'll see how many games the Packers win without Rodgers.

[tinythinker]

6 hours ago, Orion said:

But I hear ya.....we're better at stopping the run in this passing league.....and we're better at protecting our bum QB's.  It's just that we're worse at getting wins.

I will try cheering for bad plays next week. Not to be bitter, just to have something to cheer for. Plus maybe if enough of us do it the football gods will be confused...

[nickers]

The article does very little to sway My feelings.. blow the phucker up and lets get going....

[miktoxic]

1 hour ago, BaconHound said:

The problem that many "Doom & Gloomers" is when you trade your valuable picks to acquire more under the guise of, "hey we got this awesome plan" you can't play the hindsight is 20/20 card.

Garrett and another high pick, Shelton?  Ok, no issue let that play out.

Solid LBers.  Ok I'm on board with this if the 3 week Collins Concussion was nothing but a blip.  The Peppers thing is crazy.  The question I'd ask is, why is Peppers playing out of position and if you are a coach how do you look the other defensive players in the face and say, "dude suck it up I'm p[laying Peppers out of position to see if he might be able to play somewhere else".  I tend to believe someone got a boner over his tape and measurables and thought they could plugged him in anywhere and he'd be successful.  I remember Hue in post draft interviews talking about possibly playing him on offense.  He's what 20th in Kickoff Returns Average and 22nd in Punt Return Average.

O-Line that looks solid.  I agree but still hard to judge with a rookie QB and no "speed talent"

A raw TE?  Hanging your hat on raw TE, c'mon man.

Corey Coleman, that's laughable.

RB, doesn't matter who's back there when you're down 21 with 8 in the box.

QB, with each passing week all the current crop of college QBs look worse and worse.

 

Trust the Process

 

never trust the process unless you know what the process is. and you and i and every fan in between has no idea what the process is.

they want everyone in every part of biz and politics totday to be thoroughly transparent about every aspect of what they do, yet we don't know why the browns didn't pick wentz or goff or mariota or bortles or.......

and those were the front-runners. those that fell between the cracks like a prescott or a watson or whoever else always fall into other people's laps...........never ours.

[SD_Tom]

8 hours ago, calfoxwc said:

  I think our coaches are fine - Hue is terrific. However, I think Hue needs to hire an OC and let the OC call the plays. My Wife and I can'

sit there and predict what Hue will call.  Seems that he is trying to protect Kizer by running on first and second down so much, thathe is putting Kizer in trouble on 3rd and longs. He did, finally, surprise me and threw on first down last Sunday.and Hogan was the qb. Now, what the heyl is up with that?

  I will say, that as much as I respect Coleman, he wasn't on my list that draft. Like Canton Mike has told me several times, Michael Thomas was the bigger wr he wanted. Michael Thomas went in the 2nd round. The Browns went with Coleman. Wonder why. Oh,...the Browns had signed RGIII, out of Baylor, earlier that spring. Coincidence? I think not.

In two games, Michael Thomas, with the Saints,  has caught 15 passes for 176 yards and two touchdowns.Did anybody on this board want them to draft the small kid out of Baylor? I don't think so.  If we find out Kizer is only RGIII from another college...well,

Sorry Hue, but it's time to let somebody else pick the qb. Let me pick the next one, or just call me and ask my opinion. I want the kid

out of Northwestern. You heard it here first, on the Brownsboard. and btw, the wr I want in the first round with the other pick?

Sutton. NOT the big high ranked kid out of Notre Dame.

Can't draft Buckeyes.  It's their law

[wargograw]

7 hours ago, Harry Buffalo said:

his biggest strength is motivating and caring for his players. Those are great head coaching strengths and he just needs to focus on being the main guy.

Exactly 

[wargograw]

Baconhound, bring back the dog smoking avatar. That was the best on this site other than maybe Zombo’s. 

[Tour2ma]

15 hours ago, BaconHound said:

I think the short, snarky, answer is, same as Elway's

Hey... I love snark!

Elway joined the Broncos FO as Executive VP in 2011. The then GM stayed on thru that draft season before leaving at which time Elway assumed the GM role. Let's look at his track record...

First his drafts...

						Misc					Passing					Rushing			Receiving
Year	Rnd		Pick	Pos	To	AP1	PB	St	CarAV	G	Cmp	Att	Yds	TD	Int	Att	Yds	TD	Rec	Yds	TD	Int	Sk	College/Univ
2017	1	Garett Bolles	20	T	2017	0	0	1	0	5														Utah
2017	2	DeMarcus Walker	51	DE	2017	0	0	0	0	5														Florida St.
2017	3	Carlos Henderson	82	WR		0	0	0																Louisiana Tech
2017	3	Brendan Langley	101	CB	2017	0	0	0	0	3														Lamar
2017	5	Jake Butt	145	TE		0	0	0																Michigan
2017	5	Isaiah McKenzie	172	WR	2017	0	0	0	0	5						1	4	0	1	0	0			Georgia
2017	6	De'Angelo Henderson	203	RB	2017	0	0	0	0	3						1	1	0						Coastal Carolina
2017	7	Chad Kelly	253	QB		0	0	0																Mississippi
Year	Rnd	Player	Pick	Pos	To	AP1	PB	St	CarAV	G	Cmp	Att	Yds	TD	Int	Att	Yds	TD	Rec	Yds	TD	Int	Sk	College/Univ
2016	1	Paxton Lynch	26	QB	2016	0	0	0	1	3	49	83	497	2	1	11	25	0						Memphis
2016	2	Adam Gotsis	63	DT	2017	0	0	1	2	21													1.0	Georgia Tech
2016	3	Justin Simmons	98	FS	2017	0	0	1	2	18												3	1.0	Boston Col.
2016	4	Devontae Booker	136	RB	2017	0	0	0	5	18						178	628	4	35	343	1			Utah
2016	5	Connor McGovern	144	G	2017	0	0	0	0	5														Missouri
2016	6	Andy Janovich	176	FB	2017	0	0	0	1	16						5	35	1	5	44	0			Nebraska
2016	6	Will Parks	219	S	2017	0	0	0	1	21												1		Arizona
2016	7	Riley Dixon	228	P	2017	0	0	2	2	21	1	1	16	0	0									Syracuse
Year	Rnd	Player	Pick	Pos	To	AP1	PB	St	CarAV	G	Cmp	Att	Yds	TD	Int	Att	Yds	TD	Rec	Yds	TD	Int	Sk	College/Univ
2015	1	Shane Ray	23	DE	2016	0	0	1	8	30													12.0	Missouri
2015	2	Ty Sambrailo	59	T	2017	0	0	0	3	18														Colorado St.
2015	3	Jeff Heuerman	92	TE	2017	0	0	0	1	17									13	200	1			Ohio St.
2015	4	Max Garcia	133	C	2017	0	0	2	9	36														Florida
2015	5	Lorenzo Doss	164	CB	2017	0	0	0	0	14														Tulane
2015	6	Darius Kilgo	203	NT	2016	0	0	0	2	18														Maryland
2015	7	Trevor Siemian	250	QB	2017	0	0	2	9	20	397	662	4665	26	16	48	111	1						Northwestern
2015	7	Taurean Nixon	251	DB	2016	0	0	0	0	2														Tulane
2015	7	Josh Furman	252	DB		0	0	0																Oklahoma St.
Year	Rnd	Player	Pick	Pos	To	AP1	PB	St	CarAV	G	Cmp	Att	Yds	TD	Int	Att	Yds	TD	Rec	Yds	TD	Int	Sk	College/Univ
2014	1	Bradley Roby	31	DB	2017	0	0	0	8	53												6	2.0	Ohio St.
2014	2	Cody Latimer	56	WR	2017	0	0	0	1	37						2	1	0	18	180	1			Indiana
2014	3	Michael Schofield	95	OL	2017	0	0	2	13	35														Michigan
2014	5	Lamin Barrow	156	LB	2015	0	0	0	2	32														LSU
2014	6	Matt Paradis	207	OL	2017	0	0	3	12	37														Boise St.
2014	7	Corey Nelson	242	LB	2017	0	0	0	6	53													1.0	Oklahoma
Year	Rnd	Player	Pick	Pos	To	AP1	PB	St	CarAV	G	Cmp	Att	Yds	TD	Int	Att	Yds	TD	Rec	Yds	TD	Int	Sk	College/Univ
2013	1	Sylvester Williams	28	DT	2017	0	0	4	23	65													5.5	North Carolina
2013	2	Montee Ball	58	RB	2014	0	0	0	8	21						175	731	5	29	207	0			Wisconsin
2013	3	Kayvon Webster	90	DB	2017	0	0	1	5	58												1		South Florida
2013	5	Quanterus Smith	146	DE	2014	0	0	0	1	15														West. Kentucky
2013	5	Tavarres King	161	WR	2017	0	0	0	0	10									5	70	0			Georgia
2013	6	Vinston Painter	173	G	2017	0	0	0	0	9														Virginia Tech
2013	7	Zac Dysert	234	QB		0	0	0																Miami (OH)
Year	Rnd	Player	Pick	Pos	To	AP1	PB	St	CarAV	G	Cmp	Att	Yds	TD	Int	Att	Yds	TD	Rec	Yds	TD	Int	Sk	College/Univ
2012	2	Derek Wolfe	36	DT	2017	0	0	6	32	74													23.5	Cincinnati
2012	2	Brock Osweiler	57	QB	2017	0	0	1	10	37	490	819	5101	26	22	71	180	3	1	-14	0			Arizona St.
2012	3	Ronnie Hillman	67	RB	2016	0	0	1	17	56						494	1976	12	74	524	1			San Diego St.
2012	4	Omar Bolden	101	DB	2015	0	0	0	5	56														Arizona St.
2012	4	Philip Blake	108	OL	2012	0	0	0	0															Baylor
2012	5	Malik Jackson	137	DT	2017	0	0	3	24	84													22.5	Tennessee
2012	6	Danny Trevathan	188	LB	2017	0	0	4	24	64												5	5.0	Kentucky
Year	Rnd	Player	Pick	Pos	To	AP1	PB	St	CarAV	G	Cmp	Att	Yds	TD	Int	Att	Yds	TD	Rec	Yds	TD	Int	Sk	College/Univ
2011	1	Von Miller	2	LB	2017	3	5	7	72	93												1	78.5	Texas A&M
2011	2	Rahim Moore	45	DB	2015	0	0	3	20	64												9	1.0	UCLA
2011	2	Orlando Franklin	46	T	2016	0	0	6	40	89														Miami (FL)
2011	3	Nate Irving	67	LB	2015	0	0	1	9	62													3.0	North Carolina St.
2011	4	Quinton Carter	108	DB	2014	0	0	1	5	30													2.0	Oklahoma
2011	4	Julius Thomas	129	TE	2017	0	2	4	18	62									197	2126	33			Portland St.
2011	6	Mike Mohamed	189	LB	2015	0	0	0	4	26												1		California
2011	7	Virgil Green	204	TE	2017	0	0	3	5	89						2	3	0	64	713	4			Nevada
2011	7	Jeremy Beal	247	DL	2012	0	0	0	0															Oklahoma

I think we can agree that John's area of expertise is QB and maybe receivers. DL? Not so much... nor LBs or OL. TEs and DBs... maybe some.

Noteworthy is John's drafting of a QB in 5 of his 6 years. And of those he's picked he's done better on Day 3 (Dysert, Siemian, Kelly) than he has Days 1 and 2 (Osweiler, Lynch).

Overall to my eye after some good early years, the quality of his drafts seem to be tapering off. The areas they seem to fare the best in the draft? Looks like the DL followed by the OL.

So how has Denver contended during his time including their most recent SB win? FA... P. Manning, Demarcus Ware and Aquib Talib were all big name "gets" that helped propel them. FA is the place where franchises "on the verge" go to add those last couple pieces to make that last push to the Lombardi. What it can't do is sustain a team's excellence... at least not if you continually shop at the top of the FA market.

 

Elway might be a great Exec... he definitely seems to be a helluva salesman which is a big part of FA recruiting. In another year or two we'll see where Denver is and how good he is as "the Decider".

What he is not... what P. Manning is not... is some kind of omniscient, SuperScout, which best I can tell is what the P. Manning crowd is expecting. They may as well be wishing for the Toothfairy.

[Westside Steve]

 

What he is not... what P. Manning is not... is some kind of omniscient, SuperScout, which best I can tell is what the P. Manning crowd is expecting. They may as well be wishing for the Toothfairy.

what I would hope for or expect is that he'd be better than the seasoned professionals that have held that position up to now. I don't imagine that he would do worse. As a matter of fact I don't suppose any guy on this board would have done substantially worse.

WSS

[BaconHound]

17 hours ago, wargograw said:

Baconhound, bring back the dog smoking avatar. That was the best on this site other than maybe Zombo’s. 

Sorry wasn't me