Tour2ma Posted October 23, 2017 Report Share Posted October 23, 2017 Kizer doesn't need his QB Coach... he needs to sit with his OC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasAg1969 Posted October 23, 2017 Report Share Posted October 23, 2017 3 hours ago, Tour2ma said: Kizer doesn't need his QB Coach... he needs to sit with his OC. Exactly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jiggins7919 Posted October 24, 2017 Report Share Posted October 24, 2017 20 hours ago, Tour2ma said: Kizer doesn't need his QB Coach... he needs to sit with his OC. I agree in some respects, but here's the other problem: Sitting with an OC isn't going to help missing WR's by ten feet in the red zone. Kizer made the correct reads (for the most part) this past week, and was safe with the ball. When it came time to make a real throw, he simply couldn't do it. Not only that, he MISSED HIGH over the middle, which everyone knows is the cardinal sin. The one time we tried an actual throw in the end zone, Kizer threw a terrible ball to Njoku that he couldn't even get FINGER ON! I wouldn't call it an "easy throw", but Njoku had perhaps a half of step on the defender, but more than that, he probably had 6 inches on the guy. YOU DON'T THROW A BULLET RIGHT THERE. That throw has to have SOME degree of touch on it so your guy has a chance to actually TOUCH THE BALL. It was our best chance to score one of those "touchdown thingies" that we can't seem to accomplish, and it wasn't even close. Everyone did their job. Coach called a good play. Kizer had enough time to throw. Njoku won his route, if only slightly. And our QB threw a ball that was untouchable. He threw a complete fast ball on a line drive instead of trying to put a little touch on it and giving our college HIGH JUMPER a chance at making a play. I can't see how sitting with an OC helps that. I mean, do we really have to explain to Kizer how to throw a decent pass at this stage of football? "Ok Deshone, here's what you want to do. You want to throw the ball so your guy can actually touch the ball, ok?" UGGGGGGGHHHHHHHH. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted October 24, 2017 Report Share Posted October 24, 2017 2 hours ago, jiggins7919 said: I agree in some respects, but here's the other problem: Sitting with an OC isn't going to help missing WR's by ten feet in the red zone. Kizer made the correct reads (for the most part) this past week, and was safe with the ball. When it came time to make a real throw, he simply couldn't do it. Not only that, he MISSED HIGH over the middle, which everyone knows is the cardinal sin. The one time we tried an actual throw in the end zone, Kizer threw a terrible ball to Njoku that he couldn't even get FINGER ON! I wouldn't call it an "easy throw", but Njoku had perhaps a half of step on the defender, but more than that, he probably had 6 inches on the guy. YOU DON'T THROW A BULLET RIGHT THERE. That throw has to have SOME degree of touch on it so your guy has a chance to actually TOUCH THE BALL. It was our best chance to score one of those "touchdown thingies" that we can't seem to accomplish, and it wasn't even close. Everyone did their job. Coach called a good play. Kizer had enough time to throw. Njoku won his route, if only slightly. And our QB threw a ball that was untouchable. He threw a complete fast ball on a line drive instead of trying to put a little touch on it and giving our college HIGH JUMPER a chance at making a play. I can't see how sitting with an OC helps that. I mean, do we really have to explain to Kizer how to throw a decent pass at this stage of football? "Ok Deshone, here's what you want to do. You want to throw the ball so your guy can actually touch the ball, ok?" UGGGGGGGHHHHHHHH. That is when we started calling him the Black Weeden...or the Black Anderson. He does lack that touch. Of course, the problem with this team seems to be that no matter which of the 3 QBs they put in there, none of them can seem to avoid the big interception at the wrong time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted October 24, 2017 Report Share Posted October 24, 2017 2 hours ago, jiggins7919 said: I agree in some respects, but here's the other problem: Sitting with an OC isn't going to help missing WR's by ten feet in the red zone. Kizer made the correct reads (for the most part) this past week, and was safe with the ball. When it came time to make a real throw, he simply couldn't do it. Not only that, he MISSED HIGH over the middle, which everyone knows is the cardinal sin. The one time we tried an actual throw in the end zone, Kizer threw a terrible ball to Njoku that he couldn't even get FINGER ON! I wouldn't call it an "easy throw", but Njoku had perhaps a half of step on the defender, but more than that, he probably had 6 inches on the guy. YOU DON'T THROW A BULLET RIGHT THERE. That throw has to have SOME degree of touch on it so your guy has a chance to actually TOUCH THE BALL. It was our best chance to score one of those "touchdown thingies" that we can't seem to accomplish, and it wasn't even close. Everyone did their job. Coach called a good play. Kizer had enough time to throw. Njoku won his route, if only slightly. And our QB threw a ball that was untouchable. He threw a complete fast ball on a line drive instead of trying to put a little touch on it and giving our college HIGH JUMPER a chance at making a play. I can't see how sitting with an OC helps that. I mean, do we really have to explain to Kizer how to throw a decent pass at this stage of football? "Ok Deshone, here's what you want to do. You want to throw the ball so your guy can actually touch the ball, ok?" UGGGGGGGHHHHHHHH. Preaching to the choir, my friend... all comments I've made recently... including a post just a few minutes ago on the Njoku overthrow. One comment I recently made was the need for a Sports Psychiatrist and/or a yoga instructor to calm Kizer down. I said it half-jokingly, but I honestly think his overgripping/overthrowing issues are all heart control/adrenaline related. Bringing in either or both could work wonders... especially the former after the way he's been "handled" the past three weeks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jiggins7919 Posted October 24, 2017 Report Share Posted October 24, 2017 But it's also more than just the picks! Yes, those are obviously awful, but we could tolerate at least some of those if ANY of our bozos just threw some TOUCHDOWNS. Our radio show guys are ticked off and upset that Kizer was pulled. They made the comparison that Winston was never pulled in Tampa despite throwing throwing like 7 picks during his first 4 games. What our radio show idiots are failing to MENTION is that people like Winston actually threw TOUCHDOWN PASSES. Yes, they turned the ball over, but there was also "the good" parts of their game. I can't point to hardly ANYTHING that Kizer is doing well. He simply isn't scoring any darn points. And it's not like he's "barely missing" on some of these throws...he's way the heck off. Remember that touchdown he missed to Higgins in the end zone, where instead of actually leading the WR he threw it 8 feet behind him? Again, that's not "barely missing", it's completely off the scale! Again, it'd be one thing if Kizer threw a terrible pick, but then he counters SOME of those turnovers with a touchdown throw, but he doesn't COME CLOSE to throwing ANY. I'm not talking about he only throws a couple, the guy doesn't THROW ANY. He completely missed Njoku a week or two ago for a WIDE OPEN TD, he overthrew him Sunday with a God awful toss, he overshot Higgins by a country mile, and the guy can't accidentally score any points. We can't ever run the ball into the end zone despite having an expensive line. Crow can't get any yards because nobody thinks we can pass it. We had points that could've been scored, and once again, we couldn't make the plays when we needed to, and that's the bottom line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted October 24, 2017 Report Share Posted October 24, 2017 21 minutes ago, jiggins7919 said: But it's also more than just the picks! mmmkay... but I didn't mention picks. The overthrow to which I referred was not clear, but it was the endzone overthrow I raised in the other other thread... I think redzone overamps the kid... be it the field compression or anticipation or pucker-factor or whatever... but between the 20's everything he does is "better"... even shows touch on occasion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jiggins7919 Posted October 24, 2017 Report Share Posted October 24, 2017 4 minutes ago, Tour2ma said: mmmkay... but I didn't mention picks. The overthrow to which I referred was not clear, but it was the endzone overthrow I raised in the other other thread... I think redzone overamps the kid... be it the field compression or anticipation or pucker-factor or whatever... but between the 20's everything he does is "better"... even shows touch on occasion. Sorry Tour, I was responding to the post above yours. Specifically, Of course, the problem with this team seems to be that no matter which of the 3 QBs they put in there, none of them can seem to avoid the big interception at the wrong time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted October 24, 2017 Report Share Posted October 24, 2017 On 10/23/2017 at 10:43 AM, The Gipper said: Or Black Anderson....though Anderson had some success. Hence the Weeden suffix. WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
domcucch1994 Posted October 24, 2017 Report Share Posted October 24, 2017 COULD OF HAD WENTZ OR WATSON!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted October 24, 2017 Report Share Posted October 24, 2017 19 minutes ago, domcucch1994 said: COULD OF HAD WENTZ OR WATSON!!! Oh boy! He's starting a list! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted October 24, 2017 Report Share Posted October 24, 2017 23 minutes ago, Tour2ma said: Oh boy! He's starting a list! Yes, How absurd. The list goes back to like 1955 when we could have taken Johnny Unitas to replace the retiring Otto Graham...but we passed on him like 9 times. But then we coulda gotten him again, because the Steelers who did draft him in the 9th round cut him and we didn't pick him up. Coulda/woulda/shoulda. WHY IN GODDAMNED HELL DIDN'T THE BROWNS DRAFT JOHNNY UNITAS WHEN THEY HAD THE CHANCE. I MEAN...I AM NOW SO PISSED OFF ABOUT THAT IT MAKES MY BLOOD BOIL. PAUL BROWN...DIDN'T KNOW A QB FROM A HOLE IN THE GROUND!!!!!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasAg1969 Posted October 24, 2017 Report Share Posted October 24, 2017 It's obviously time to give JM a new shot. He at least could get scores with no coaching. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted October 25, 2017 Report Share Posted October 25, 2017 ... or in spite of... ... all 7 of them... for a "perfect" 1:1 TD:INT ratio... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jiggins7919 Posted October 26, 2017 Report Share Posted October 26, 2017 I think it's important to bump this thread, as Kizer is once again starting for us when we take on the Vikings in London this weekend. This decision may have surprised some people, as Kessler came in for the toughest position imaginable (first time playing with the ball at the 1 yard line) and took us down for a tying FG. Not only that, Kessler threw a deep-ish ball to Kenny Britt that would've put us in prime position to actually score a TD. Obviously Britt didn't get a finger on the ball, and it was awful. Anyways, Kessler moved the ball, and he was actually able to complete some deeper throws. I don't know about you guys, but I prefer Kessler over Kizer in the red zone, that's for darn sure. So why not start Cody this weekend? Because he's get absolutely destroyed against the Vikings. You saw what happened when Joe Thomas went out. You saw in OT where we couldn't even snap the ball without Kessler running backwards. If Joe was healthy, I think you'd see Cody this weekend, but you can't play an immobile QB when playing a team that is so completely dominant on defense. I believe the Vikings have the league leader in sacks, so you can bet he's going to be coming RIGHT at Drango. Let's get one thing straight. The Titans did NOT have a great defense, and our team couldn't score a freaking TD with either QB. We had one throw in the end zone, and that was a truly awful Kizer bullet to a 6'5 Njoku that he couldn't even touch. I would've loved to see Cody get an opportunity to make that throw, but whatever. Barring some kind of a freaking miracle or busted coverage, we're not scoring a TD this week either. That's basically three games in a row without an offensive TD, and the only one we had was a garbage time TD from Hogan that was aided by several iffy penalties against the Texans. Think about that for a minute. How many touchdowns do you see EVERY week? Our offense can't even score ONE. And if you think we're going to score one against a DOMINANT defense, I've got bad news for you. No, we're throwing Kizer out there because at least he can move, and maybe, just maybe he'll be able to wing a ball deep to somebody and score a TD that way...but I'm not betting on it. I read a stat (but forget the specifics) and it basically said that every London game has basically been a blowout. I'm too lazy to go back and look through the games, but that sounds about right to me. That streak looks to continue this weekend, as I'm officially predicting a Vikings win, to the dominant tune of 27 - 6. Our defense will somewhat keep the score close at half, and it will be something around 13 - 3 at half, but the Vikings will blow it wide open in the second part of the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SD_Tom Posted October 26, 2017 Report Share Posted October 26, 2017 If you go back and watch the espn coverage when they were drafted, pretty much everything they predicted about Watson and Kizer is playing out. Great clutch player, tremendous poise, great leader who is gonna have the entire organization buying in, gonna be ready to play opening day, all the intangibles... Etc Vs. Immature both on and off field, major accuracy issues, big arm, shows flashes with a clean pocket but needs to sit at least a year to learn.... Etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tacosman Posted October 26, 2017 Report Share Posted October 26, 2017 26 minutes ago, SD_Tom said: If you go back and watch the espn coverage when they were drafted, pretty much everything they predicted about Watson and Kizer is playing out. Great clutch player, tremendous poise, great leader who is gonna have the entire organization buying in, gonna be ready to play opening day, all the intangibles... Etc Vs. Immature both on and off field, major accuracy issues, big arm, shows flashes with a clean pocket but needs to sit at least a year to learn.... Etc not sure why there would be comparisons in any way between the two. Watson was a legend at clemson and was known to be a first round pick(possibly a high first round pick). Kizer had a so-so grade with a lot of negative marks and wasn't the same caliber prospect. Comparing the two's performance and expectations is silly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jiggins7919 Posted October 26, 2017 Report Share Posted October 26, 2017 The amazing thing to me is how we don't even "accidentally" score a few TDs. Maybe "accidentally" is the wrong word choice, but we don't even get the occasional broken coverage TD, or the missed tackle TD, or the WHATEVER TD. What's even more curious is how we NEVER RUN THE BALL IN for a touchdown. Lord knows we try when we get into the red zone, but tell me the last time we handed the ball off and our running back scored? It never happens. The last one I can even think of is when Duke took a pitch and made about 200 different moves and somehow leaped into the pay dirt. Other than that, how does this team not ever score the ball by running it? I see it ALL THE TIME when I watch NFL football, yet we never punch it in. How? It's absurd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jiggins7919 Posted October 26, 2017 Report Share Posted October 26, 2017 If you feel like punishing yourself a bit more regarding Kizer, here's an article about some film breakdown. The article goes through each of his two picks, and also discusses his miserable throw to Njoku. Lord I hate Kizer right now. It also will show you that the pick to Higgins could easily have been one of those "touchdown" things we never get. Kizer throws a bullet to Higgins as he comes out of his break, and he could continue to the sideline and up to the end zone. But we know what happened. Kizer continues to show that he doesn't possess the ability to make anticipatory throws at an NFL level. He can sometimes throw a ball to an open guy, but he simply CANNOT anticipate a WR's route and throw the ball on time. He should've thrown the ball right when Higgins makes his break, or even right before, but of course he does neither and throws a pillow to the freaking safety. On the second pick, you can see where he should've thrown it either early or later. On this board, Tour suggested throwing it later or pumping, I was screaming for him to throw it early despite having pressure in his face. Kizer is strong enough to throw that pass on the run without setting his feet, but of course....he completely blows it. Again. https://www.dawgsbynature.com/2017/10/25/16550592/film-room-browns-offense-under-kizer-vs-titans-part-2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SD_Tom Posted October 26, 2017 Report Share Posted October 26, 2017 1 hour ago, Tacosman said: not sure why there would be comparisons in any way between the two. Watson was a legend at clemson and was known to be a first round pick(possibly a high first round pick). Kizer had a so-so grade with a lot of negative marks and wasn't the same caliber prospect. Comparing the two's performance and expectations is silly They're not anywhere close to the same caliber player. That's the whole point. You compare the two picks because they had a chance to take watson .... Passed... And then they chose Kizer later. The draft guys didn't make a direct comparison between the two, they just wondered why on earth the Browns failed to address the qb position again when watson fell into their lap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoorta Posted October 26, 2017 Report Share Posted October 26, 2017 1 hour ago, SD_Tom said: They're not anywhere close to the same caliber player. That's the whole point. You compare the two picks because they had a chance to take watson .... Passed... And then they chose Kizer later. The draft guys didn't make a direct comparison between the two, they just wondered why on earth the Browns failed to address the qb position again when watson fell into their lap. Truth be told, I wasn't a Watson fan before the draft. Wanted Trubisky, but the Bears torpedoed that idea. I absolutely DID NOT want Kizer, the 4th best qb in a supposedly weak QB draft. That link Jiggins posted shows everything I was worried about in spades. He has guys open, misses seeing them, and is either late, high, or no touch on many of his throws. I have extreme doubts those flaws can be fixed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SD_Tom Posted October 26, 2017 Report Share Posted October 26, 2017 Hoorta i felt the same about Kizer, but was a huge fan of watson after seeing his playoff run. Not many qbs could've led a huge comeback vs Alabama after taking the hits he took in the first half. When the game is on the line, he's money. I also didn't want Peppers in any way cuz he just isn't elite anywhere, and I felt he was extremely overrated in college. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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