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So if Jackson is gone...


Westside Steve
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Let's say the Cleveland Browns decide to can Hue Jackson. As I recall the last couple of times people here were yip yip tipping that no coach of worth would ever want to come to Cleveland.

Then the Cleveland Browns landed the consensus most sought-after coach in the league.

So if he gets the boot what do you suppose the reason would be that other coaches wouldn't want to come here? The lack of commitment beyond two years? The mishandling of player acquisition and dismissal? Lack of input?

WSS

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PLEASE!! No more "coach shopping" after a couple years! I'm fine with Hue Jackson until we at least get him some talent to work with. Flipflopping coaches every couple seasons is just unproductive. Give the man a realistic chance by giving him some decent players to coach. Winning with these young guys is like asking the most skilled heart surgeon in the world to perform open heart surgery with a screwdriver and a pair of pliers!

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I get keeping a guy for a third year, I do. But say we win 1 game this year too, it's realllllly hard to justify keeping someone around who is a whopping 2-30 in two full seasons. I get the yadda yadda stuff, and I don't disagree. But at the same time, that's abysmal. I'm honestly at the point where I wouldn't strongly care either way, but he better start showing something in terms of wins.

At the end of the day though, there are only 32 jobs like this in the world. Even for a hapless Browns team, someone will take the job who is qualified.

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Ill admit i didnt think we'd land jackson. That being said he wasnt our first choice either. If we can put the short term memory loss away for a minute, we were linked to alot of Shmucking coaches last year. They all came to ckev then signed somewhere else like 24 hours later. 

And "for sure" def coordinators were staying way the Shmuck away from us. We had to take ray Horton back. After hirton and pettine i never want to see the 3-4 in clev ever again. Which if we fire williams and a no name 3-4 dc cones to town, im out until i read we have a top 10 defense. Im not sitting through another defensive rebuild where it takes years to drum out players that were signed or drafted for a diff defense. Anyone that isnt sick to their stomachs after 8 years of that cowpoop needs to stop being a browns fan

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I never liked Hue. Whether he is fired this week or in 10 weeks doesn't make much difference. There are several reasons why he will never be a successful NFL head coach, and why he will not be the Browns coach when we return to glory.

1) He does not believe in discipline. His team remains one of the most penalized, especially in crucial, potentially game-changing situations. After 1 pre-season half time the jury was out on this.  One training camp is all it takes to dramatically change a team's discipline.

2) He is not a good game manager. He is horrible with the clock and his team is always disorganized and unprepared when things heat up.

3) He is not a man firm in his convictions, especially at quarterback where he is supposedly brilliant. His QB carousel has kept the Browns from developing any kind of momentum or identity. I would ask anyone to tell me what are this guy's core values? Is there anything that he absolutely can't tolerate? I sure have never heard him say it.

4) He is not respected. Say whatever you will, but the fact that people talk about who respected he is, is a sure sign that players think he is a dildo.

If the Browns lose it will suck. However, if taking another painful loss gets us free of Hue Jackson, then I honestly believe it would be a good thing in the long run. Sorry, but I hate this sonofabitch, I really do.

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3 minutes ago, DieHardBrownsFan said:

I see only the DQ staying, everyone else gone.  Manning will fill a critical role.

? Dairy Queen?  That's Hue's attitude BTW. Another loss? We're taking all the guys out to DQ. Ghoolie is speaking bluntly about Hue. I agree with his assessment of Hue's shortcomings, whether that enough to get him canned in Haslam's eyes is another story. Stay tuned. 

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38 minutes ago, Ghoolie said:

I never liked Hue. Whether he is fired this week or in 10 weeks doesn't make much difference. There are several reasons why he will never be a successful NFL head coach, and why he will not be the Browns coach when we return to glory.

1) He does not believe in discipline. His team remains one of the most penalized, especially in crucial, potentially game-changing situations. After 1 pre-season half time the jury was out on this.  One training camp is all it takes to dramatically change a team's discipline.

2) He is not a good game manager. He is horrible with the clock and his team is always disorganized and unprepared when things heat up.

3) He is not a man firm in his convictions, especially at quarterback where he is supposedly brilliant. His QB carousel has kept the Browns from developing any kind of momentum or identity. I would ask anyone to tell me what are this guy's core values? Is there anything that he absolutely can't tolerate? I sure have never heard him say it.

4) He is not respected. Say whatever you will, but the fact that people talk about who respected he is, is a sure sign that players think he is a dildo.

If the Browns lose it will suck. However, if taking another painful loss gets us free of Hue Jackson, then I honestly believe it would be a good thing in the long run. Sorry, but I hate this sonofabitch, I really do.

As much as I hate to say it,  but most of what is said here I believe to be true.  The only part that may be questionable is saying that Hue is not respected.

Hue DOES have to turn things around to keep the above from being fully completely accurate.

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14 minutes ago, hoorta said:

? Dairy Queen?  That's Hue's attitude BTW. Another loss? We're taking all the guys out to DQ. Ghoolie is speaking bluntly about Hue. I agree with his assessment of Hue's shortcomings, whether that enough to get him canned in Haslam's eyes is another story. Stay tuned. 

One of the things I strongly disagree with is that no coach would want to come here. I believe just the opposite.

First of all, if we do get a new coach, who the hell wants a sissy who is afraid because of all the previous firings? Seriously, great coaches generally have egos and they like conquering tough challenges.

Secondly, Cleveland is one of the most desirable HC jobs imaginable. The opportunity to restore the greatest franchise to its rightful position? A chance to capture the hearts of millions by ending the losing? A chance to be enveloped by a fan base whose loyalty defies all obstacles? A chance to coach where PB, JB, Kelly, Otto, Alvelli, etc played? Come on man, you have to be nuts to think that nobody would want to coach here.

Finally, here is where I bump heads with you guys a lot when it comes to choosing a coach. People ask me, "Ohay Ghoolie, who would YOU hire?" Honestly man, I don't know. But here is the deal, if it were my team, I wouldn't be after the big resume'. We like to drop big names, like Gruden.....we tend to think of the next guy coming from the batch of popular candidates. But hell, the big resume hasn't exactly worked for us, has it? For sure the big FO guys like Sewage and Holmgren.

If it is my team, I am hiring a guy who is way, way, way off the grid. I would give a crap how much NFL experience the guy had. A resume is a door opener, it isn't a tool with which one should hire someone. Values, ethics, morals, beliefs, drive, passion, hate , venom, respect for Browns history............... those are the things that shoudl be focused on. Those are the things that have been ignored. Find another Cowher. Find a guy who everyone says WTF? Find a guy like Lyndon Johnson, who is driven to show the world. There is a guy just aching for a chance. I promise you, the Gruden's of this world are the last place to look.

Think about it. Who better than to lead the Cleveland Underdawgs than an underdawg?

 

 

 

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Well this is gotten off track from the question I asked but I've got no bitch with the defensive coordinator. Supposedly this is a complicated system and these are young kids, when they learn it it should be cool.

Unless it's true that the front office drafts more guys that don't fit what Williams wants.

WSS

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Meanwhile back at the OP...

3 hours ago, Westside Steve said:

Let's say the Cleveland Browns decide to can Hue Jackson. As I recall the last couple of times people here were yip yip tipping that no coach of worth would ever want to come to Cleveland.

Then the Cleveland Browns landed the consensus most sought-after coach in the league.

So if he gets the boot what do you suppose the reason would be that other coaches wouldn't want to come here? The lack of commitment beyond two years? The mishandling of player acquisition and dismissal? Lack of input?

Love a string of rhetorical questions... also love answering them.

I don't think two coaches removed from Chud that commitment is a serious issue. Commitment in the form of a fully guaranteed contract is commitment enough for most candidates... even Browns candidates.

Mishandling "stuff"... Also a non-factor IMO. First, there's a significant lack of evidence. Second, any HC knows there's a business side to every franchise.

"Lack of input", a/k/a "control"... every HC wants it. Most HC's don't get it. Most that do get it, eff it up.

 

I said a couple days ago that so long as he holds, as in does not lose, the locker room, then Hue should be safe. To do so even while going 2-30 over two seasons would be a monumental feat... not accomplishment... feat. It would be testimony that the players believe in what I have been seeing/preaching/clinging to... that there is progress, if not success, but that success is coming.

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4 minutes ago, Westside Steve said:

Well this is gotten off track from the question I asked but I've got no bitch with the defensive coordinator. Supposedly this is a complicated system and these are young kids, when they learn it it should be cool.

Unless it's true that the front office drafts more guys that don't fit what Williams wants.

One... if you'd waited a couple more minutes I was putting your thread back on track. My name is Tour, and I'm here to help...

Two... from what I've heard Williams and his scheme is all about keeping things simple so his players are freed up to play. Where did your "complicated" take come from?

Three... looking at the lone draft held since Gregg's arrival, I'm hard-pressed to see players that don't fit what he wants to do.... including Peppers, who I believe, and believe Gregg would agree, is not being used to his greatest benefit, but rather as the best option in trying to fill a position of great need.

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4 hours ago, BrownsFan4Evr said:

PLEASE!! No more "coach shopping" after a couple years! I'm fine with Hue Jackson until we at least get him some talent to work with. Flipflopping coaches every couple seasons is just unproductive. Give the man a realistic chance by giving him some decent players to coach. 

I couldn't agree more.  Even if we go 0-16 this season, we need better players.  I hope they allow Hue some input to players to draft (begging).  And I do know about the Kessler pick.  Like I said before, we need WR and CBs.  Don't forget who (WR) he had in Cinci, I would love to have those types.  And CB weren't bad either.  

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I doubt he will be this season until the end perhaps. that would speak volumes of uncertainty on Jimmy's behalf. Hue is a well respected offensive coordinator and the players like him. However, I don't know how respected of a head coach he is. He better get an offensive coordinator because he's doing too much now.  I think we'd excel more if he had less pressure on himself. Honestly I agree with the whole clock management and discipline thing. I have yet to see Hue to go off or get mad at times. Sometimes you have to get mad. Calling Kizer's game "lights out" against the bengals wasn't necessarily what he needed to hear and we needed to hear. Say what you want about Bill B, but if a player doesn't do what he asks, or slacks off, he cuts them or benches them immediately. Whether it be Randy Moss, or Ochocinco, or many many others.

Keep Hue till the end of the year and re-evaluate. If the team doesn't progress and gets worse, get rid of him (the key term is progress, not win).

If we start playing with fire and it comes together, keep him for next year.

 

I'll go ahead and say I definitely don't want a new coach and a new system at this point. But we damn well better win more than 4 games in 2018.

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6 minutes ago, stillmotion said:

 Honestly I agree with the whole clock management and discipline thing. I have yet to see Hue to go off or get mad at times.

How do you know how much he's going off on these players, we can only assume.  The receivers we have can't catch the ball, period!!!  Our rookie QB is just that, a rookie.  The other rookies in the league are on much better TEAMS (Houston & Chicago).  And I spell teams out because I really want you to think that when relating it to us.  We have more rookies on our team and it will take time to get it to full capacity.

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Just now, dawg2fan said:

How do you know how much he's going off on these players, we can only assume.  The receivers we have can't catch the ball, period!!!  Our rookie QB is just that, a rookie.  The other rookies in the league are on much better TEAMS (Watson & Chicago).  And I spell teams out because I really want you to think that when relating it to us.  We have more rookies on our team and it will take time to get it to full capacity.

because, having a spine would signal that after Britt made that drop that turned into the interception, he would be benched. Next week, he would be benched, but instead he played. Getting benched publicly would make Britt realize he's sucking, yet instead, he played and then was "injured" (poor kenny) the next week. Kenny's effort is lacking.... he has talent but he needs to learn he can't f#$% up. I understand the Hue is a whole "nice guy" schtick, but when somebody messes up, they need to be taught not to make the same mistakes again.

when i was a kid and messed up, if my dad hit me with a belt, i damn near didn't do what i did again. Hue needed to give Kenny the verbal belt in that situation.

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This team is so damn young, after another infusion of young next draft when do we start becoming not so damn young. I don't think any of the coaches are in jeopardy,  just the morons that are evaluating talent. They have proven they have no clue what a QB, WR or a Safety  looks like.

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41 minutes ago, Tour2ma said:

Meanwhile back at the OP...

Love a string of rhetorical questions... also love answering them.

I don't think two coaches removed from Chud that commitment is a serious issue. Commitment in the form of a fully guaranteed contract is commitment enough for most candidates... even Browns candidates.

Mishandling "stuff"... Also a non-factor IMO. First, there's a significant lack of evidence. Second, any HC knows there's a business side to every franchise.

"Lack of input", a/k/a "control"... every HC wants it. Most HC's don't get it. Most that do get it, eff it up.

 

I said a couple days ago that so long as he holds, as in does not lose, the locker room, then Hue should be safe. To do so even while going 2-30 over two seasons would be a monumental feat... not accomplishment... feat. It would be testimony that the players believe in what I have been seeing/preaching/clinging to... that there is progress, if not success, but that success is coming.

Yes, it’s two coaches removed from Chud... in 4 years. And one of those regimes preached “long rebuild”...so I can still see how it would be offputting.

Once again, I point to the Haslam quote from this offseason - 2018 is the year they’ve had earmarked for us to see a swing. Not 2017. They’ve set their sights on 2018, and there must be a reason for that. My guess is that starts with the letter Q. I believe they have their eye on a QB that they think can operate Hue’s offense. Someone with the vision to see the field, the timing to know when to pull the trigger, and the arm to make sure it gets there when it should. They acquired the capital to make sure they’d be able to get him, whoever it is.

I like Kizer and I’ll stand behind him until I’m positive he doesn’t have it...but I was wrong about him being our preferred guy. It doesn’t add up. He’s a project that might pay off, might not...and there weren’t very many guys picked between him and Ogunjobi that would have noticeably improved us. I count two. 

TL;DR- Hue stays and gets a QB

 

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3 minutes ago, Tim Couch Pulls Out said:

Yes, it’s two coaches removed from Chud... in 4 years. And one of those regimes preached “long rebuild”...so I can still see how it would be offputting.

Once again, I point to the Haslam quote from this offseason - 2018 is the year they’ve had earmarked for us to see a swing. Not 2017. They’ve set their sights on 2018, and there must be a reason for that. My guess is that starts with the letter Q. I believe they have their eye on a QB that they think can operate Hue’s offense. Someone with the vision to see the field, the timing to know when to pull the trigger, and the arm to make sure it gets there when it should. They acquired the capital to make sure they’d be able to get him, whoever it is.

I like Kizer and I’ll stand behind him until I’m positive he doesn’t have it...but I was wrong about him being our preferred guy. It doesn’t add up. He’s a project that might pay off, might not...and there weren’t very many guys picked between him and Ogunjobi that would have noticeably improved us. I count two. 

TL;DR- Hue stays and gets a QB

 

Kizer was a dart in the wall, throw it and hope it hits the Bulls eye. I still remember someone in the organization saying they would draft for depth the first two drafts then go after their Franchise QB in the third draft. I believe all is going as planned.

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11 minutes ago, stillmotion said:

because, having a spine would signal that after Britt made that drop that turned into the interception, he would be benched. Next week, he would be benched, but instead he played. Getting benched publicly would make Britt realize he's sucking, yet instead, he played and then was "injured" (poor kenny) the next week. Kenny's effort is lacking.... he has talent but he needs to learn he can't f#$% up. I understand the Hue is a whole "nice guy" schtick, but when somebody messes up, they need to be taught not to make the same mistakes again.

when i was a kid and messed up, if my dad hit me with a belt, i damn near didn't do what i did again. Hue needed to give Kenny the verbal belt in that situation.

Let's say they benched Britt, then put in who?  sure we picked up a couple players from another teams practice squad, and of course they turned out to be better than our starters, go figure.  No one knew how Britt was going to be before the season started.  Sure we knew he had some drops, but not as much as he is showing.  This goes to show how much we need WRs and good ones.  

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4 minutes ago, dawg2fan said:

Let's say they benched Britt, then put in who?  sure we picked up a couple players from another teams practice squad, and of course they turned out to be better than our starters, go figure.  No one knew how Britt was going to be before the season started.  Sure we knew he had some drops, but not as much as he is showing.  This goes to show how much we need WRs and good ones.  

And I heard him blame the Offenses woes on the "QB Controversy" how about blaming your Shmucking drops you piece of Sheet.

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If the head coach position of the Cleveland Browns were to open up, there would be plenty of coaches banging down their doors to take it, as it's 1 of only 32 jobs on the planet like it.  

All great coaches weren't great coaches until they became great coaches.....

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26 minutes ago, D Bone said:

If the head coach position of the Cleveland Browns were to open up, there would be plenty of coaches banging down their doors to take it, as it's 1 of only 32 jobs on the planet like it.  

 

This point really means nothing. 

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4 minutes ago, wargograw said:

“Yeah we need to stick with a guy. But I hate Hue and he sucks. So, you know, do whatever you want Jimmy. But yeah, um, I hope he stays. I guess.”

-Most of the fanbase

 

Solid convictions, guys. 

Well, you "play to win", so next year, if Hue goes 1-15, he doesn't deserve a 4th year. If we start progressing this year, and have some fire next year, we should keep him.

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