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If we have to take a QB in 2018........?????


Ghoolie

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6 hours ago, TexasAg1969 said:

Ditto. I like this version far more and have been selectively reading several days now. Off ignore list now and glad you stayed to cogently discuss sans alter-ego. Thanks.        Bill

He's just setting you guys up. :lol:

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I'm not sure what direction the Browns are going as far as the qb goes. I guess there are a few options for 2018:

1.) Hue needs to hire an offensive coordinator. It just makes sense. He needs someone else calling plays so he can focus on in game management which he is clearly lacking right now. This has the biggest effect on a qb as anything else. I think the FO is going to make this happen in the off-season. Bring in manning into the FO in some way. He may want control but I think just him being in the building would be a moral booster. 

2.) Kizer shows great improvement over the last 9 games and becomes what everyone was hoping when he started. Two things that give me hope about him are that he is extremely young...as in, he just turned 21 and the youngest starting qb in the league by a few years. I think he has at times shown potential but he is so young in his development that he just needs time to learn and develop. The second is the "leap" really good qb's make between the first year and their second year. A great example would be Jared Goff, who looked awful last year and is vastly improved this year. Yes, he maybe a product of the coaching that he is receiving now vs. last year, but he looks like a quality starting qb. Also, Carson Wentz who has made significant strides. I will openly say I never thought he would be this good. 

3.) FA QB route. Jimmy G or bust. I think Cousins will be either in SF, JAX or WSH and the browns won't have a chance. I'm not a believer in McCarron from Cincy. Jimmy G looks the part to me with everything the browns want in a qb. young, great arm, athletic.  Front load a deal, let Kizer continue to develop behind him for a few years and make the switch if you have too. This may take some figuring out to do. Good chance NE franchise tags him and a deal would have to be worked out. It puts a kink in the system, but i'm sure a reasonable package could be figured out only because NE won't be able to afford both him and Brady. That's over 40 million on your cap for 1 who is going to be on the bench. 

4.) Draft One early. Find the best qb in the draft and get him at all costs. They will have a high pick (assuming Kizer does not turn it around and all of sudden they bang out a few wins but if this happens more than likely the belief in Kizer may not necessitate a qb)

5.) Trade for Starter. This maybe the least likely option but it could be realistic. The target: Alex Smith. They can afford his option for next year, plus he's playing at a high level. The downside is what it will cost. I'm sure the chiefs will want a first rounder but I think the browns could parlay a 2nd and a 3rd to make it happen. However, it will all depend on how ready Mahomes is behind him as trading Smith would be a huge gamble on KC's part. The other target: Andrew Luck. It may sound crazy, but Indianapolis is going to clean house with their coaches after this year and Luck has a monster contract along with a questionable shoulder. Could the front office be enticed to deal him? doubtful, but the Browns have a ton of draft ammo if they want to go "all in". This would shock the rest of the NFL

My "personal preference" is to go route number 3. They need an experienced qb and it's pretty obvious. This defense is getting better and better. The offense is being held back because of it's qb play. I think a guy like garrapolo steps in and makes a significant difference. You eliminate any "learning curve" of an early drafted qb. Add a true number one in Watkins, release Britt and bring back Pryor and use your top picks to get Saquon Barkley and finish off the defense with a CB, S, etc. This is the direction I think the browns are headed. Everything has been building for the third year. As much as they want to win more games, I think they knew it was going to take at least two full years to rebuild. I think Haslam gives them one more year. If after year three there is no improvement, than I think he burns it to the ground.

 

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So again,

the big toothache for me is this purposeful avoidance of taking the most highly touted QBs. Always the same crap...........this guy wouldn't work out for us................. next year's crop of QB is better............. always, some reason why the top rated QBs are just not right for us. Worse, this philosophy has permeated the FO. Or is it the other way around? Has the FO's hate of drafting the best QB prospects infected the fans?

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1 hour ago, Bigalow80 said:

I'm not sure what direction the Browns are going as far as the qb goes. I guess there are a few options for 2018:

1.) Hue needs to hire an offensive coordinator. It just makes sense. He needs someone else calling plays so he can focus on in game management which he is clearly lacking right now. This has the biggest effect on a qb as anything else. I think the FO is going to make this happen in the off-season. Bring in manning into the FO in some way. He may want control but I think just him being in the building would be a moral booster. 

Don't you think doing so will be his own lynching? If I am Haslam and it takes 2 years of screwing my team for the HC to realize he is in over his head? BYE BYE HC.

2.) Kizer shows great improvement over the last 9 games and becomes what everyone was hoping when he started. Two things that give me hope about him are that he is extremely young...as in, he just turned 21 and the youngest starting qb in the league by a few years. I think he has at times shown potential but he is so young in his development that he just needs time to learn and develop. The second is the "leap" really good qb's make between the first year and their second year. A great example would be Jared Goff, who looked awful last year and is vastly improved this year. Yes, he maybe a product of the coaching that he is receiving now vs. last year, but he looks like a quality starting qb. Also, Carson Wentz who has made significant strides. I will openly say I never thought he would be this good. 

I said all along that unless Kizer turns out to be  wunderkind, Hue will be gone. 

3.) FA QB route. Jimmy G or bust. I think Cousins will be either in SF, JAX or WSH and the browns won't have a chance. I'm not a believer in McCarron from Cincy. Jimmy G looks the part to me with everything the browns want in a qb. young, great arm, athletic.  Front load a deal, let Kizer continue to develop behind him for a few years and make the switch if you have too. This may take some figuring out to do. Good chance NE franchise tags him and a deal would have to be worked out. It puts a kink in the system, but i'm sure a reasonable package could be figured out only because NE won't be able to afford both him and Brady. That's over 40 million on your cap for 1 who is going to be on the bench. 

Don't see Belichik letting him go for anything less than the whole kitchen sink.

4.) Draft One early. Find the best qb in the draft and get him at all costs. They will have a high pick (assuming Kizer does not turn it around and all of sudden they bang out a few wins but if this happens more than likely the belief in Kizer may not necessitate a qb)

Too much speculation here. Hue has not committed to Kizer yet, I don't see Kizer playing the remainder of the games.

5.) Trade for Starter. This maybe the least likely option but it could be realistic. The target: Alex Smith. They can afford his option for next year, plus he's playing at a high level. The downside is what it will cost. I'm sure the chiefs will want a first rounder but I think the browns could parlay a 2nd and a 3rd to make it happen. However, it will all depend on how ready Mahomes is behind him as trading Smith would be a huge gamble on KC's part. The other target: Andrew Luck. It may sound crazy, but Indianapolis is going to clean house with their coaches after this year and Luck has a monster contract along with a questionable shoulder. Could the front office be enticed to deal him? doubtful, but the Browns have a ton of draft ammo if they want to go "all in". This would shock the rest of the NFL

Trade what?

My "personal preference" is to go route number 3. They need an experienced qb and it's pretty obvious. This defense is getting better and better. The offense is being held back because of it's qb play. I think a guy like garrapolo steps in and makes a significant difference. You eliminate any "learning curve" of an early drafted qb. Add a true number one in Watkins, release Britt and bring back Pryor and use your top picks to get Saquon Barkley and finish off the defense with a CB, S, etc. This is the direction I think the browns are headed. Everything has been building for the third year. As much as they want to win more games, I think they knew it was going to take at least two full years to rebuild. I think Haslam gives them one more year. If after year three there is no improvement, than I think he burns it to the ground.

He can't give them 1 more year. He wishes he could, but he can't. Be honest with yourself. This team has not improved in any manner that will win games. If we go 0 - 16 and keep Hue, do you even realize the miserable off season Haslam will have? No, I think he has written off the season, but he isn't going to write off 2018. There is nothing about Hue Jackson that makes anyone think year 3 is going to be a breakout.

 

 

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On 10/23/2017 at 10:31 AM, TexasAg1969 said:

We shall see. He's just had a life changing event so that rates a second chance in my book.😃

And yet he’s already going back to his old ways. What’s that tell you?

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30 minutes ago, boo fagley said:

Take Josh Allen.

Bring Kizer, Kessler, Hogan and Allen into camp and let them settle the depth chart. If Kizer is the starter fine, I would prefer for Allen to sit and play sporadically. The Browns are going to turn this thing around. No doubt in my mind that its going to happen and change Browns history for the better.

I'm just not sold on Allen-as the level of competition increases his play decreases. I'm looking more at Rosen who has to play with no defense but still carries his team pretty well. Have Jim McMahon provide his headbands and temperament. oh wait.............he has that already! He'll be fine.

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15 hours ago, Ghoolie said:

So again,

the big toothache for me is this purposeful avoidance of taking the most highly touted QBs. Always the same crap...........this guy wouldn't work out for us................. next year's crop of QB is better............. always, some reason why the top rated QBs are just not right for us. Worse, this philosophy has permeated the FO. Or is it the other way around? Has the FO's hate of drafting the best QB prospects infected the fans?

The fans have to go along with whatever the FO does.   We have to live with their decisions and hope they have gotten them right.  We can't change those decisions so there is no reason to beat our breasts over them.  You know I was a big advocate of taking MT.....and the year before of taking Joey Bosa with that second pick.     I think we would have had a better QB than we have and a better pass rusher than what we have in Garrett.

But...there ain't nothing I can do about it now, is there. So why pound my head against a brick wall as some here....including, apparently, you....want to do?

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Somehow missed this post earlier, very strong, concise take... and not just because I've said many of the same things here and there... although that helps. :)

16 hours ago, Bigalow80 said:

3.) FA QB route. I think Cousins will be either in SF, JAX or WSH and the browns won't have a chance. I'm not a believer in McCarron from Cincy. Front load a deal, let Kizer continue to develop behind him for a few years and make the switch if you have too. This may take some figuring out to do.

Generally feel like this is not the route. Agree on the Cousins take with SF his most likely destination by far. I like McCarron and am a reserved Jimmy G guy, but there is a lot less tape on AJ.

4.) Draft One early. Find the best qb in the draft and get him at all costs. They will have a high pick (assuming Kizer does not turn it around and all of sudden they bang out a few wins but if this happens more than likely the belief in Kizer may not necessitate a qb)

Feel this is at least part of the plan. It works paired with any other option which does not consume a 2018 first-round pick... but if it does, there is at least one draft-eligible Sr. QB who will be there Day 2... :)  Ditto for if we end up really not loving any of the Day 1 QB options.

5.) Trade for Starter. This maybe the least likely option but it could be realistic. The target: Alex Smith. They can afford his option for next year, plus he's playing at a high level. The downside is what it will cost. I'm sure the chiefs will want a first rounder but I think the browns could parlay a 2nd and a 3rd to make it happen. However, it will all depend on how ready Mahomes is behind him as trading Smith would be a huge gamble on KC's part. The other target: Andrew Luck. It may sound crazy, but Indianapolis is going to clean house with their coaches after this year and Luck has a monster contract along with a questionable shoulder. Could the front office be enticed to deal him? doubtful, but the Browns have a ton of draft ammo if they want to go "all in". This would shock the rest of the NFL

This... While Luck is the longer shot and carries a health risk, Alex is a real possibility. KC has 20.6 million reasons to deal him; it has 17.6 million reasons to cut him. No telling what the market for him will be for a 34-yo QB, even one as good as Alex has shown to be this season.

In the end its viability boils down to how far KC goes this postseason. Anything short of winning it all, no matter the extent at which any "failure" can be laid at Alex's feet, opens this door.

My "personal preference" is to go route number 3. They need an experienced qb and it's pretty obvious. This defense is getting better and better. The offense is being held back because of it's qb play.

And mine is a 4/5 combo... You know you solve the short-term in Alex and by adding a rookie you increase the odds of doing the same for the long-term.

Smith - Kizer - Xxxxxxxx... quite a QB room for now and then...

Well done...

 

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19 hours ago, Ghoolie said:

So again,

the big toothache for me is this purposeful avoidance of taking the most highly touted QBs. Always the same crap...........this guy wouldn't work out for us................. next year's crop of QB is better............. always, some reason why the top rated QBs are just not right for us. Worse, this philosophy has permeated the FO. Or is it the other way around? Has the FO's hate of drafting the best QB prospects infected the fans?

All I heard last year was "how great the 2018 QB class would be" with "several franchise guys available"..... Now the Browns are earning their usual spot at the top of the draft board and suddenly all the QBs suck.......

Ratt's Round and Round suddenly come to mind. 

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4 hours ago, Canton Dawg said:

Jimmy G will be a free agent next year. . .

image.thumb.png.beadae00238270d3c2ae13b8a4154369.png

But Dawg,

Other than he plays for Belichik, why are folks here so high on this guy? I have not really seen him play, but one has to consider that maybe even our QBs would look decent in limited play on the Pats team. Does he strike you as a franchise guy? As someone else said, for sure if he is Belichik is going to want a lot for him. Even worse, there is a risk that it is the general fascination with Bill Belichik that is adding a perceived value to this guy that maybe is artificial?

For sure, QB is the top issue for us.

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1 hour ago, Ghoolie said:

But Dawg,

Other than he plays for Belichik, why are folks here so high on this guy? I have not really seen him play, but one has to consider that maybe even our QBs would look decent in limited play on the Pats team. Does he strike you as a franchise guy? As someone else said, for sure if he is Belichik is going to want a lot for him. Even worse, there is a risk that it is the general fascination with Bill Belichik that is adding a perceived value to this guy that maybe is artificial?

For sure, QB is the top issue for us.

The body of work for Jimmy G is rather small, so I can’t say whether the guy is a Franchise QB or not. Nevertheless, I can only think of 3 scenarios that will play out for him in 2018.

1) He signs a lucrative multi year deal with the Pats to hold the clipboard for Brady.

2) He gets the franchise tag, which would work out to $21.4 million for one year to hold a clipboard for Brady.

3) He signs a lucrative deal to play for another team.

Regardless, the guy is gonna make bank. It just depends if he’s willing to stand on the sidelines or not.

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3 hours ago, Canton Dawg said:

The body of work for Jimmy G is rather small, so I can’t say whether the guy is a Franchise QB or not. Nevertheless, I can only think of 3 scenarios that will play out for him in 2018.

1) He signs a lucrative multi year deal with the Pats to hold the clipboard for Brady.

2) He gets the franchise tag, which would work out to $21.4 million for one year to hold a clipboard for Brady.

3) He signs a lucrative deal to play for another team.

Regardless, the guy is gonna make bank. It just depends if he’s willing to stand on the sidelines or not.

Yeah, but you know, the culture in N.E. is also such that he might just take less now to keep the team rolling with the promise of making his bank later when Brady retires. NE is known for this kind of stuff. Again, I just don't know enough of this guy to know if he is the tits or not. My gut tells me he is probably average but enjoys the Belichik/NE mystique.

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6 hours ago, Ghoolie said:

Yeah, but you know, the culture in N.E. is also such that he might just take less now to keep the team rolling with the promise of making his bank later when Brady retires. NE is known for this kind of stuff. Again, I just don't know enough of this guy to know if he is the tits or not. My gut tells me he is probably average but enjoys the Belichik/NE mystique.

We shall see when N.E. makes their move to retain or not next year. Denver obviously did not like the Oz well enough to pay up at contract time.

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