Tour2ma Posted October 24, 2017 Report Share Posted October 24, 2017 Proud of BBC stepping up, but this... 14 hours ago, Canton Dawg said: S Ibraheim Campbell, 84.4 overall grade ... really makes things interesting for Peppers' return and how he'll be used. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jiggins7919 Posted October 24, 2017 Report Share Posted October 24, 2017 8 minutes ago, Tour2ma said: Proud of BBC stepping up, but this... ... really makes things interesting for Peppers' return and how he'll be used. There was little doubt that the back side of our defense looked much improved, but I'm cautious to say that we did anything too stellar because the Titans don't exactly possess the most explosive down-field threats. Still, I liked what I saw and Mr. Peppers better pay attention. To your point about Garrett, I did see him use the low bend a couple of times, and when he did, he was simply directed behind the pocket and Mariota stepped up to the vacated space. One play in particular would've worked if somebody else on the DL pushed Mariota back, or we had penetration that didn't let him step right up, but we didn't and the "low bend" amounted to nothing. Ya know, I keep seeing articles and statements from analysts that say, "Turnovers and mistakes prevent the Browns from winning again." While I agree they certainly didn't HELP matters, I can't help but think they weren't the reason we lost. No, the REASON we lost was because we didn't score any damn touchdowns. That's the bottom line people. We have another team that just can't find a way to score freaking touchdowns. Do you have any idea how many touchdowns were scored in the NFL in week 7? I don't know the number offhand, but I'm pretty sure it was a crap-load. How many did WE score? None. For basically the second straight week too. Yeah, I know we scored ONE last week, but that hardly counts. Not only that, how many times did we actually throw a ball in the end zone? How many plays did we attempt that actually COULD'VE scored? We have to find a way to take a few shots PER HALF. It's great to get into the red zone and all, but that hasn't exactly helped our team this year either. When we're at the opponent's 35 yard line and closer, we need to be taking a shot EVERY ONCE IN A WHILE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted October 24, 2017 Report Share Posted October 24, 2017 1 hour ago, jiggins7919 said: ... how many times did we actually throw a ball in the end zone? I can recall one... Kizer's "too-flat-needed-more-air-under-a-throw-to-the-back-pylon" to Njoku. That was there... that was one example of a throw Kizer needs to... to quote Aaron R... R-E-L-A-X on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jiggins7919 Posted October 24, 2017 Report Share Posted October 24, 2017 12 minutes ago, Tour2ma said: I can recall one... Kizer's "too-flat-needed-more-air-under-a-throw-to-the-back-pylon" to Njoku. That was there... that was one example of a throw Kizer needs to... to quote Aaron R... R-E-L-A-X on. After making that statement, I immediately recalled that throw and made a similar comment on a different thread. I won't go into great detail, but that throw was just freaking AWFUL. You have a collegiate HIGH JUMPER who probably has a 5 inch height advantage on the defender, and you throw a darn BULLET?! Njoku couldn't even TOUCH the freaking ball! If the pass is high, that's ok. You make it high so either your guy gets it or nobody does, but COME ON MAN. That throw, above just about all else, shows me that Kizer can't be the guy. That just isn't a very tough toss if you ask me. I'm not saying it's EASY...but are you telling me that an NFL QB can't throw a 20 yard pass that a high-jumping, 6'5 TE can't even touch? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted October 24, 2017 Report Share Posted October 24, 2017 18 minutes ago, jiggins7919 said: After making that statement, I immediately recalled that throw and made a similar comment on a different thread. And after reading your comment in that other thread I made a comment referring to my comment on your comment in this other thread... ... or something... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoorta Posted October 24, 2017 Report Share Posted October 24, 2017 56 minutes ago, jiggins7919 said: After making that statement, I immediately recalled that throw and made a similar comment on a different thread. I won't go into great detail, but that throw was just freaking AWFUL. You have a collegiate HIGH JUMPER who probably has a 5 inch height advantage on the defender, and you throw a darn BULLET?! Njoku couldn't even TOUCH the freaking ball! If the pass is high, that's ok. You make it high so either your guy gets it or nobody does, but COME ON MAN. That throw, above just about all else, shows me that Kizer can't be the guy. That just isn't a very tough toss if you ask me. I'm not saying it's EASY...but are you telling me that an NFL QB can't throw a 20 yard pass that a high-jumping, 6'5 TE can't even touch? Shades of Derek Anderson, though his fastball doesn't have quite the velocity of DA's. Kizer continues to drive the ball when he doesn't have to. There was another bomb he tossed where he had a wr at least 5 yards behind his defender, and Deshone rocketed the ball 10 yards past him way over his head. Glaring lack of touch. The second int may not have happened if he had looped the ball over the first defender. Haven't had the stomach to review the tape, so that's just my initial impression. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canton Dawg Posted October 24, 2017 Report Share Posted October 24, 2017 1 hour ago, Tour2ma said: And after reading your comment in that other thread I made a comment referring to my comment on your comment in this other thread... ... or something... No comment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jiggins7919 Posted October 25, 2017 Report Share Posted October 25, 2017 18 hours ago, hoorta said: Shades of Derek Anderson, though his fastball doesn't have quite the velocity of DA's. Kizer continues to drive the ball when he doesn't have to. There was another bomb he tossed where he had a wr at least 5 yards behind his defender, and Deshone rocketed the ball 10 yards past him way over his head. Glaring lack of touch. The second int may not have happened if he had looped the ball over the first defender. Haven't had the stomach to review the tape, so that's just my initial impression. Uhhh...you DON'T want to watch the tape my friend. What you will find is a pervasive lack of rushing yards by our team. Watch our first 2 plays of the game. Crow run, Crow run. Hardly anything. In Crow's defense, there were basically zero holes this game. Now, he obviously missed a few because that's what he does, but for the most part he had nowhere to go because teams don't have to worry about the passing game. As far as what the film reveals in the passing game, you'll notice a few things. First, you see that Hue Jackson does an excellent job of starting out Kizer with easy, short throws that don't require him to make any reads. This is very smart and is a direct response of criticism where people questioned Hue's complex play calling for his rookie. One early drive wasn't Kizer's fault, as we did our patented "have a nice drive and then get 2 dreadful penalties and end up with 3rd and 30" routine. One penalty in particular was crap, but I don't remember the other one. Hue Jackson continues to do an admirable job of calling simple plays despite not being able to run with any consistency. We continue to move the ball with some efficiency, but that's when the trouble begins. You see, you can't call an entire game of short, easy reads. Eventually a defense will adjust and you'll have to make some big boy throws down the field. Kizer has the ability to do this, but he can't do it CONSISTENTLY. Sooner or later, Kizer inability to deliver an accurate football will catch up with him, and that's when he cut loose the moon ball to Higgins that was easily picked off (it's also worth noting that Ricardo had a miserable drop on a gorgeous Kizer throw that would've continued an earlier drive in Titans territory). What really hurts is we had Higgins open on that awful pick. Would've been 1st and 10 or goal to go. This was the type of game where one touchdown can win the game. Speaking of Higgins, he made a terrific move on a short catch and got extra yards, and we're starting to see this from the young man. He looks very shifty and confident with the ball in his hands, and I'd like to see more of him. Additionally, Higgins was called for another devastating offensive pass interference penalty, and we obviously lead the league in this ominous category (it's worth noting that the call was awful and Higgins should get an apology from the league. Terrible). As you continue to watch Kizer play, you will notice the continuous lack of touch we mentioned earlier. Additionally, he tends to miss high, which you simply can't do, especially over the middle. We had multiple posters here ask why we never attack the middle of the field, and this is the reason why. Hue cannot call plays consistently over the middle because virtually all of our QBs miss HIGH. Hue Jackson takes a lot of criticism for his play calls, but he's completely hamstrung by what he has to work with. It's sad but true. As you march forward in your dreadful endeavor to watch this film, you'll observe Duke Johnson has skills and is a playmaker. You will further observe that we don't get him the ball enough. We just HAVE to find ways to get him the rock. Now, after Kizer makes his 2nd pick, you can start to feel the desperation. Hue Jackson is currently taking a TON of criticism about his handling of Kizer last game, but I think everyone needs to shut their pie holes. This was a winnable game and Hue HAD to do something. Hue OWED it to his players on the field who fought their butts off, especially the warriors on our defense. To be fair to Kizer, the 2nd pick was not a terrible play by him as much as it was a terrific, savvy play by the defender. Still, Kizer could've thrown the ball earlier for an easy completion, or pumped and thrown it later. He did neither and ultimately got yanked. Ok, so here we are on our 1 yard line after a ballsy stand by our defense. Hue tosses in Cody Kessler who comes into probably the absolute toughest situation in football. 1st and 10...from the 1. He's quickly aided by an offsides penalty, and then starts to do Kessler stuff by making quick throws...that are accurate. Kessler even makes a couple of decent "long-ish" throws. Additionally, Kessler made a long throw while under tremendous pressure deep to Britt, but Britt dove and couldn't get a finger on the ball. It was NOT an easy catch at all, but it a catch that is made consistently in the league. Britt didn't even touch the ball. Would've been a giant play, and could've won the game. Kessler was then derailed by poor play calling, as we went for it on 4th and 3, and we should have taken a timeout. Kessler ended up going deep down the sideline to Britt (dumb), but as you watch the film on this particular play, you'll notice that Kessler made the correct read and had NOWHERE else to go with it. It was poor play design, and Kessler had no choice but to throw it deep, and it wasn't a good throw at all. With a tall receiver, the best play would've been to throw up a punt. But...whatever. Poor design, poor execution, and just not good football. After you're thoroughly depressed from watching a game you know we could win, but feel we won't, the unimaginable happens and Joe goes down. After that, we had no answer for Orakpo. He was EVERYWHERE. See, this is how teams find ways to win. Their playmakers MAKE PLAYS when they need them. In close games, we just never have people that can do this....ever. Other teams do it...all the time...but never us. When we got to overtime, it was over. We had two possessions that went backwards basically. Just no chance, none at all. We got to overtime and had zero ability to move the ball whatsoever. Game over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter33109 Posted October 25, 2017 Report Share Posted October 25, 2017 Here is the next name you'll hear about in the next few years Josh Allen. He won't be the Browns QB but will lead the Steelers to a Super Bowl win in 2020. The Browns will trade their 2018 first round draft pick for two draft picks in 2019 and a player to be named later to the Steelers who will snap up Josh Allen in the 2018 draft. And since I'm in predication mode the Browns will go 3-13 in 2018 and rebound to 6-10 in 2019 and sorry that's as good as the Browns will get. In 2020, the year that Josh Allen takes the Steelers to the Super Bowl, the Browns will regress to 4-12. These can be seen as improvements as compared to the last two seasons but the Browns will still be a bottom dweller. As far as Kizer goes; I vote on playing him no matter how many interceptions he throws. Keep him in until he quits or is injured, whichever comes first. For all practical purposes the season is over for the Browns. I really really wish they can pull out a miracle and win their remaining 9 games but realistically they are destine for 0-16. Its tough being optimistic and be a Browns fan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted October 25, 2017 Report Share Posted October 25, 2017 Predicting nine wins wouldn't be optimistic; it'd be delusional... even at the end of a 4-0 preseason from which we are now 7 losses removed. As for the rest of your prognostication... If I believed it, then I'd hang up my Browns fandom right now. 4 hours ago, jiggins7919 said: As far as what the film reveals in the passing game, you'll notice a few things. First, you see that Hue Jackson does an excellent job of starting out Kizer with easy, short throws that don't require him to make any reads. This is very smart and is a direct response of criticism where people questioned Hue's complex play calling for his rookie. One early drive wasn't Kizer's fault, as we did our patented "have a nice drive and then get 2 dreadful penalties and end up with 3rd and 30" routine. One penalty in particular was crap, but I don't remember the other one. Hue Jackson continues to do an admirable job of calling simple plays despite not being able to run with any consistency. We continue to move the ball with some efficiency, but that's when the trouble begins. You see, you can't call an entire game of short, easy reads. Eventually a defense will adjust and you'll have to make some big boy throws down the field. Kizer has the ability to do this, but he can't do it CONSISTENTLY. We also started with Kizer under Center. He just belongs there early and often. The short shots our QBs take are what Ds give us for the very reason you cite... we are not yet consistent enough to string together 12 play drives. And that goes beyond our QB play to the run game and staying away from penalties and drops. Until we show differently we will see this approach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoorta Posted October 26, 2017 Report Share Posted October 26, 2017 15 hours ago, Hunter33109 said: Here is the next name you'll hear about in the next few years Josh Allen. He won't be the Browns QB but will lead the Steelers to a Super Bowl win in 2020. The Browns will trade their 2018 first round draft pick for two draft picks in 2019 and a player to be named later to the Steelers who will snap up Josh Allen in the 2018 draft. And since I'm in predication mode the Browns will go 3-13 in 2018 and rebound to 6-10 in 2019 and sorry that's as good as the Browns will get. In 2020, the year that Josh Allen takes the Steelers to the Super Bowl, the Browns will regress to 4-12. These can be seen as improvements as compared to the last two seasons but the Browns will still be a bottom dweller. As far as Kizer goes; I vote on playing him no matter how many interceptions he throws. Keep him in until he quits or is injured, whichever comes first. For all practical purposes the season is over for the Browns. I really really wish they can pull out a miracle and win their remaining 9 games but realistically they are destine for 0-16. Its tough being optimistic and be a Browns fan. Ha- Browns will likely be drafting #1 overall in 2018- again. It will be the best qb on their board. Now if you notice my interests- there's a lot of mountains in Wyoming. Love the state, and I've been through Laramie many times, and stopped at the UW campus. So, I have more than a ha- passing interest in Allen. Already have the upcoming game on ESPNU set to record. He had a BAD game against Boise State. Understand the hype, but I need to see a lot more before the Browns pull the trigger (ha again) drafting him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter33109 Posted October 26, 2017 Report Share Posted October 26, 2017 I saw Josh Allen play twice this year. There is no doubt he needs some work but he has the core skills to be a pro starting QB. His arm is very impressive both in distance and control (in the Oregon game he threw the ball about 60 yards in the air only to have the receiver drop it after it hit him in the chest) . He is big and strong but will need help with reads and dealing with the NFL speed. What he lacks is a premier school and supporting cast. The Browns will not draft Josh Allen just like they passed on Carson Wentz and Deshaun Watson. There will be another QB in the draft that will have better stats and go to a better school that the Browns will draft. I wish I could explain this but I guess the Browns are simply an expansion team stuck in a rut. I don't know that just by changing QBs the team will win. The supporting cast is important along with a game plan that exploits each athlete's skill set...what's this called? Oh a team. Yes we need a QB that is a leader as well as talented but we need receivers that catch, blockers that block and open holes for the RB's and a defense that stops the other team. Trust me I know its more complex than this, but couple that with a coaching staff and a game plan and you have a team. So if this is the 30,000 foot view, what are the Browns missing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted October 27, 2017 Report Share Posted October 27, 2017 17 hours ago, Hunter33109 said: He is big and strong but will need help with reads and dealing with the NFL speed. What he lacks is a premier school and supporting cast. Sounds like Kizer... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter33109 Posted October 30, 2017 Report Share Posted October 30, 2017 Oh I forgot Josh Allen is accurate...I guess the same as Kizer under 5 yards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasAg1969 Posted October 30, 2017 Report Share Posted October 30, 2017 On 10/26/2017 at 8:08 AM, Hunter33109 said: I saw Josh Allen play twice this year. There is no doubt he needs some work but he has the core skills to be a pro starting QB. His arm is very impressive both in distance and control (in the Oregon game he threw the ball about 60 yards in the air only to have the receiver drop it after it hit him in the chest) . He is big and strong but will need help with reads and dealing with the NFL speed. What he lacks is a premier school and supporting cast. The Browns will not draft Josh Allen just like they passed on Carson Wentz and Deshaun Watson. There will be another QB in the draft that will have better stats and go to a better school that the Browns will draft. I wish I could explain this but I guess the Browns are simply an expansion team stuck in a rut. I don't know that just by changing QBs the team will win. The supporting cast is important along with a game plan that exploits each athlete's skill set...what's this called? Oh a team. Yes we need a QB that is a leader as well as talented but we need receivers that catch, blockers that block and open holes for the RB's and a defense that stops the other team. Trust me I know its more complex than this, but couple that with a coaching staff and a game plan and you have a team. So if this is the 30,000 foot view, what are the Browns missing? A beer says he never sees the field as more than a backup unless someone is forced to play him. I am totally not impressed with what I have seen in 2 games. So that means the Browns take him #1 overall to add to the T-shirt of shame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter33109 Posted October 30, 2017 Report Share Posted October 30, 2017 Another vote against the next Ben Roethlisburger. May be The Browns will go for another big school player from Southern Cal or Florida and transplant them into NE Ohio with its warm weather all year around, seems like much of the same logic that got the Browns to where they are today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiamat63 Posted October 30, 2017 Report Share Posted October 30, 2017 2 hours ago, Hunter33109 said: Another vote against the next Ben Roethlisburger. May be The Browns will go for another big school player from Southern Cal or Florida and transplant them into NE Ohio with its warm weather all year around, seems like much of the same logic that got the Browns to where they are today. Sorry, Ben was able to grasp the concept of progressions. You're making the wrong comparison here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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