Can we please stop turning on every new coach...

[miktoxic]

6 hours ago, Clevfan4life said:

Within 2 years if his tenure? Hue isnt losing games for us, our players are losing games for us. Theres some mistakes that u can attribute to some extent to the cosch, but the most egregious mind numbing plays of the season by far are squarely on the players. 

We cant keep turning things over. The browns by nature have to be more loyal to their players and staff. Cleveland is not a hot destination for coke and hooker time like ither cities. We have to entice onfield and off field talent here by being more patient. We cant get rid of every guy that doesnt deliver immediate results. 

did you stick up for pettine or mangini like this? doubt, doubt, doubt it.

you didn't like them....why? is it alright i don't like hue?

 

cool then.

 

[hoorta]

6 hours ago, Clevfan4life said:

I just cant start over again. 1-23 is fine with me cause i see the talent gaps at alot of positions. Even if he sucks the browns have to essentially "use" hue to generate a sense of stability and if he's still doing goofy Sheet in a couple years we cut him loose for an established guy who will be coming in to a table set for him. 

Just let hue grow into a HC. 

Um, you forget he already was a HC once with the Raiders? Had plenty of assistant coaching experience with the Bengals. Bill Belichick learned from his mistakes in Cleveland- I see zero indication to date Hue has learned from his past mistakes. 

3 hours ago, Tacosman said:

nobody expected hue to go 12-4 last year and 6-1 so far this year....or even 8-8 and 4-3 so far this year.

What we won't tolerate is HISTORICALLY BAD RECORDS even compared amongst similarly talentless teams.  Again, he's 1-22!!!!!  If he were 8-15 I think people would understand that while that record sucks, he came into a team lacking talent and in a bad spot.  But you just can't go 1-22 in today's nfl....thats historically bad and verydifficult to do. Even with a terrible team.

We're zeroing in on the Tampa Bay record of suckitude. If we hadn't beaten the Chargers, we'd have them topped already.  

[lodilobo]

Penalties aren't on him??Who is responsible for disciplining these players....not Hue? Yeah...I'm sure you're right. Let's sign him to a 10 year contract extension and let him grow into the job. This guy sucks, and the only way to turn this mess around is to clean house....again. I hate it, but every other NFL team would have pulled the plug already, with the win / loss record, and the stupid mistakes made by everybody involved.

[Dutch Oven]

I understand the Browns are in the middle of an epic rebuild, but the Browns today aren't playing at the level of the Browns at the beginning of last season, where they held leads and would choke the game away. (Baltimore, Miami) Hue's game-time decisions has to be noticed by Haslam.

That being said, I wouldn't want to explain to Haslam why Hue has to choose between Kizer, Kessler and Hogan every game if I were the braintrust of the Browns when he can turn on Sportscenter and see Wentz being talked about as a MVP candidate, while Watson is tearing up the league as a rookie. Both QBs fell right into the Browns laps. Now, I'll fully admit, I wasn't high on either (Wentz played against crap opponents and had 40% the career passing attempts as Goff did. Watson IMO was/is Vince Young II.) There's a reason I'm  not part of a NFL team's front office responsible for drafting players.

And with every Wentz and Watson highlight, the chances that this front office will be part of the Browns next draft gets smaller.

[LogicIsForSquares]

If only a homeless guy had Jimmy's ear during the Wentz draft.

[Tour2ma]

17 hours ago, D Bone said:

I guess I missed the disclaimer that for the first two seasons we would have to accept 2-30 (phuck, hopefully 2) before we suddenly broke out in year three with 4 whole wins on our way to a 6 win year four...... Good times ahead for sure. 

I got the memo... it's around here somewhere.

14 hours ago, Tacosman said:

what do you care how jimmy spends a few million?  He doesn't give any of it to us either way.   

begging people to come here?  Please...it's 1 of 32 jobs......plenty of good candidates will come.

Plenty of evidence to the contrary...

[Tour2ma]

13 hours ago, jcam222 said:

I think the losing has started to overwhelm Hue. I think the FO has hosed him on more than one occasion on talent. Desperation (to win) is setting in and it shows via gunslinger calls.

Now all this stuff about penalties being a lack of discipline by the coaches? Nah don't buy it. Penalties are a by product of the youngest roster in the NFL. You can't beat that out of them lol.

Agree on the overwhelm... disagree on the cause... and the symptom. Losing creates its own imperative and Hue even helped by pushing winning so hard in pre-season. It shows IMO in the QB carousel that is now rolling.

Agree on the penalties... young players eager to make plays... and to win.

12 hours ago, Unsympathetic said:

Fun fact not everybody wants to hear..

Hooker isn't much of an upgrade over Peppers.. and his season's over now - ACL/MCL.

Yes he's made 3 picks, but giving up 3 TD's [out of the total of 8 plays targeting him this year] isn't exactly Canton material.

Knew he was a great CF... feared he was fragile. But there were others FSs on my  shopping list... and MLBs... and RBs... and... and... and... but I'm over it now. I'm down with what we actually did.

12 hours ago, miktoxic said:

did you stick up for pettine or mangini like this? doubt, doubt, doubt it.

I'm your Huckleberry... times two... better not doubt it once let alone three times.

2 hours ago, lodilobo said:

Penalties aren't on him??Who is responsible for disciplining these players....not Hue?

Spare the rod... spoil the nose tackle?

WTF, dude... do you know nothing about positive and negative reinforcement?

[wargograw]

On 10/23/2017 at 8:35 PM, D Bone said:

We don't need a coach everyone has already heard of.... we need the right coach that makes his name by turning the Browns around.

So we’ve gone from “there’s only 32 jobs like this, of course we can get a stud” to “yeah we’ll get some bum but he’ll be a hidden gem.” Nice consistency. 

On 10/23/2017 at 7:27 PM, Dutch Oven said:

The "There's only 32 NFL head coach jobs so the Browns will have no problem attracting a quality candidate" narrative being pushed by numerous people on here is humorous.

No one was interested in Chudzinski or Pettine when they were hired as HC of the Browns. There's been rumors during all the HC hiring processes that bigger name candidates wanted nothing to do with the Browns, or used the Browns as leverage against the team they wanted to go to. A current HC (Shanahan) wrote out a 32 point master thesis of sorts to get out of his contract as OC of the Browns. The same people on this board that point to Hue Jackson as proof that the Browns can get a quality candidate that other teams also want refer to Hue as a moron.

It’s something people tell themselves to justify scrapping everyone. They just don’t have patience. Nothing more to it. 

On 10/23/2017 at 9:27 PM, miktoxic said:

did you stick up for pettine or mangini like this? doubt, doubt, doubt it.

you didn't like them....why? is it alright i don't like hue?

 

cool then.

 

Aren’t you just as much of a hypocrite, just in reverse?

[D Bone]

1 hour ago, wargograw said:

So we’ve gone from “there’s only 32 jobs like this, of course we can get a stud” to “yeah we’ll get some bum but he’ll be a hidden gem.” Nice consistency. 

Reading comprehension has never seemed to be your strong suit. 

[Ghoolie]

On 10/23/2017 at 8:22 PM, jcam222 said:

I think the losing has started to overwhelm Hue. I think the FO has hosed him on more than one occasion on talent. Desperation tocwin is setting in and it shows via gunslinger calls. Now all this stuff about penalties being a lack of discipline by the coaches? Nah don't buy it. Penalties are a by product of the youngest roster in the NFL. You can't beat that out of them lol. I'd also say that for every bone headed call there are a half dozen ridiculous executions of good play calls. 

Sunday's loss was really a tough one. I thought the Browns had a great chance to win, and again the game was in sight. As a side bar, does anyone else think it was dumb to take the ball first in OT? Given the way the D was playing well and the O was sucking, I might have kicked and banked on a 3-and-out with a chance at better firled position.

Back to Hue. I feel bad for the guy. Jesus, Joseph and Mary, every dog deserves a little break once in awhile. On top of the loss, Hue loses Joe Thomas. I wish I could swear on this board. The Browns need to cash in that "On Any Given Sunday" chip in London. The teams, fans, Hue, EVERYONE needs a ray of sunlight to pop through this ominous cloud that has been hovering over us.

PS - I don't agree that the penalties are a result of youth. These guys have been playing football for 10 12 years. There is nothing new about the infractions they are committing. Off side is off side. 

I am hoping for some great bounces of the football Sunday. We all deserve a few great bounces. This losing schidt is like being painted into a corner with paint that just doesn't want to dry. We are all pizzed at someone, we all have a solution, but really,  all we can do is bitch and play armchair owner. I would just like to lose myself in a Browns win for a change.

[TexasAg1969]

Hard to tell on the OT decision Ghoolie. It may be sound to let the D go first, but just after the O has pushed it far enough for the tying FG to just get to OT, it is deflating not to be trusted for a repeat. Ifs and Butts just seem to live in Cleveland after every terrible loss. And JT being down & out just makes it an even harder decision.

[Clevfan4life]

On 10/23/2017 at 10:27 PM, miktoxic said:

did you stick up for pettine or mangini like this? doubt, doubt, doubt it.

you didn't like them....why? is it alright i don't like hue?

 

cool then.

 

Uhh yes i did. And I didnt like pettine"s defensive scheme, i fact i hated it. Im not a 3-4 guy but if u run a 3-4 get the personnel to run it right. But i still was like oh god pls dont fire pettine. And mangini? Hell i was against firing shurmur after only 2 years, rspecially cause i liked what jauron was building on defense

[Clevfan4life]

40 minutes ago, boo fagley said:

 

Rex Ryan would be an upgrade paired with a QB/Offensive minded coac

Boo u fukking idiot that means another defensive overhaul. Seriously dont just throw a name out there without thinking about it. 

[jiggins7919]

I'm really not fond of searching for another coach, and like other people have said, who could we possibly bring in that would be any better?  I like the idea of keeping Hue, searching for an OC, and also maybe...just maybe...providing Hue with some better talent.  This is what I keep going back to:  If you were an opposing defense, who would you REALLY be preparing for?  Who scares you?  What adjustments are you working on during the week?  I mean, we really have nothing.  You want to keep an eye on Duke, but other than that, you're going to crowd the line and make running it difficult, and then you're going to trust your defense to stop the limited weapons we toss out on the field.  What I want to know, and what we'll probably NEVER know, is who Hue Jackson REALLY wanted to draft in the first round.  Who did he really want at QB?  I just don't think it was Kizer, but I could be mistaken.  Kizer certainly has the physical traits Hue loves, but the guy has never been very accurate in his college career, so why would he be now?  

This season is going to be even more miserable, and I hate it for the players and the fans.  Losing Joe Thomas was just the nail in the coffin.  We're playing a top 3 NFL defense this week, and everybody saw what our protection looked like when Joe exited the Titans game.  It doesn't matter who the QB will be this week...they are in DEEP crap.  

[Mark O]

54 minutes ago, jiggins7919 said:

I'm really not fond of searching for another coach, and like other people have said, who could we possibly bring in that would be any better?

 

 

I agreed with this thinking as well...but Rams fans were saying the same thing about Jeff Fisher last season and the Rams went out and found some dude no one had heard of but he has clearly made a huge difference in the Rams offense and the play of Jared Goff who everyone was writing off as a bust last season (sound familiar?).  Maybe a coach who will work with the talents of the QB, coach him up and see what happens.  Hue should be taking lessons from the way the Rams are going right now.   The HC doesn't even watch the defense, I can't remember the DC name but he's been around for years and is a great DC.   Hue should go this route...just focus on the offense, when the defense is on the field sit with the QB and work with him until its time to go back on the field again. 

So the point of "who could we bring in that's better?", I'm sure there's someone out there that's better, its just a matter of finding that person.   Not sure the Harvard nerds are capable of finding that person though. 

[Tour2ma]

Sean McVay was a fast riser under two WSH HCs... Shanahan and Gruden.

What made him a "tough find" IMO is that while the WSH Offense under him improved during his 3-year OC stint, it did not stand out statistically. That said, there was some "buzz" around him.

Of course there was buzz around Pet as well... and Hue...

Besides coming to a very talented team, what's made McVay a great rookie HC is handing the Defense to Wade Phillips... totally. I don't think he even involves himself in any aspect of the D as he spends all the time the D is on the field with his QB/Offense... and he has an OC to boot!

[D Bone]

4 hours ago, Mark O said:

 

I agreed with this thinking as well...but Rams fans were saying the same thing about Jeff Fisher last season and the Rams went out and found some dude no one had heard of but he has clearly made a huge difference in the Rams offense and the play of Jared Goff who everyone was writing off as a bust last season (sound familiar?).  Maybe a coach who will work with the talents of the QB, coach him up and see what happens.  Hue should be taking lessons from the way the Rams are going right now.   The HC doesn't even watch the defense, I can't remember the DC name but he's been around for years and is a great DC.   Hue should go this route...just focus on the offense, when the defense is on the field sit with the QB and work with him until its time to go back on the field again. 

So the point of "who could we bring in that's better?", I'm sure there's someone out there that's better, its just a matter of finding that person.   Not sure the Harvard nerds are capable of finding that person though. 

I would point warlovesjohnnyagogo to this post, but he wouldn't grasp its meaning anyway and would instead offer up a quick, witty, one liner attacking anyone for not being happy with '1-22 Hue'..... We need the right coach, not a coach "that everyone has heard of". 

Great coaches are not great coaches until they're great coaches. 

[Canton Dawg]

On 10/23/2017 at 9:51 PM, Unsympathetic said:

Fun fact not everybody wants to hear..

Hooker isn't much of an upgrade over Peppers.. and his season's over now - ACL/MCL.

Yes he's made 3 picks, but giving up 3 TD's [out of the total of 8 plays targeting him this year] isn't exactly Canton material.

Hooker isn't much of an upgrade over Peppers? What are you smoking?

Hooker's PFF Grade 77.3

https://www.profootballfocus.com/nfl/players/malik-hooker/11770

 

Peppers PFF Grade 37.2

https://www.profootballfocus.com/nfl/players/jabrill-peppers/11780

[MLD Woody]

How dare you say negative things about Malik Hooker!

[SD_Tom]

Peppers has literally been awful. 

 

 

[Canton Dawg]

I can't lay too much of the blame on Peppers. Williams has him 30 yards off the LOS, and Peppers can't do a lot playing back that far.

[The Gipper]

2 hours ago, Canton Dawg said:

Hooker isn't much of an upgrade over Peppers? What are you smoking?

Hooker's PFF Grade 77.3

https://www.profootballfocus.com/nfl/players/malik-hooker/11770

 

Peppers PFF Grade 37.2

https://www.profootballfocus.com/nfl/players/jabrill-peppers/11780

Do they play different positions?   And Riddle me this:   if Hooker had been playing 25-30 yards off the line of scrimmage, what would his PFF grade be?

I mean, how can you perform if you are not even in the play?

And also answer me this:  with Peppers out, did Williams have his replacement playing back so far?  It didn't look like it to me on Sunday....and from my point of view, the secondary played better because of it. 

[SD_Tom]

28 minutes ago, Canton Dawg said:

I can't lay too much of the blame on Peppers. Williams has him 30 yards off the LOS, and Peppers can't do a lot playing back that far.

I don't know.  Williams knows more about football than any of us, so there must be a reason.  It isn't working so far. 

[Canton Dawg]

2 hours ago, The Gipper said:

Do they play different positions?   And Riddle me this:   if Hooker had been playing 25-30 yards off the line of scrimmage, what would his PFF grade be?

I mean, how can you perform if you are not even in the play?

And also answer me this:  with Peppers out, did Williams have his replacement playing back so far?  It didn't look like it to me on Sunday....and from my point of view, the secondary played better because of it. 

Check out my post right above yours chief.

[MLD Woody]

2 hours ago, Canton Dawg said:

I can't lay too much of the blame on Peppers. Williams has him 30 yards off the LOS, and Peppers can't do a lot playing back that far.

No. It's all Peppers fault. "literally awful" 

6 games of Malik Hooker are better than Peppers whole career and a 1st. 

 

Get your head out of your butt! Sad!

[Canton Dawg]

1 minute ago, MLD Woody said:

6 games of Malik Hooker are better than Peppers whole career and a 1st. 

If Peppers continues to play from the warning track, you make a valid point.

[wargograw]

On 10/24/2017 at 11:13 PM, D Bone said:

Reading comprehension has never seemed to be your strong suit. 

 

14 hours ago, D Bone said:

I would point warlovesjohnnyagogo to this post, but he wouldn't grasp its meaning anyway and would instead offer up a quick, witty, one liner attacking anyone for not being happy with '1-22 Hue'..... We need the right coach, not a coach "that everyone has heard of". 

Great coaches are not great coaches until they're great coaches. 

Sooo what you're saying is that my reading comprehension was exactly right? I nailed your point to a T.

[Tour2ma]

On 10/25/2017 at 1:39 PM, Canton Dawg said:

I can't lay too much of the blame on Peppers. Williams has him 30 yards off the LOS, and Peppers can't do a lot playing back that far.

Yup... as I've said since Sunday... will be interesting to see if Pep's use changes in London.

21 hours ago, Canton Dawg said:

Check out my post right above yours chief.

You ask the impossible...

[nickers]

22 hours ago, MLD Woody said:

No. It's all Peppers fault. "literally awful" 

6 games of Malik Hooker are better than Peppers whole career and a 1st. 

 

Get your head out of your butt! Sad!

Peppers looks like hes lost in a phone booth out there......

[The Gipper]

23 hours ago, Canton Dawg said:

Check out my post right above yours chief.

I did. It did nothing to answer any of my questions.